(Topic ID: 124023)

Bally Hi-Deal Issues

By dirk40

7 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by lschmidlin
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 7 years ago

I recently purchased (and am a complete newbie) a 1975 Bally Hi-Deal pinball. At first setup, it turned on and everything seemed great - until you started a new game. Once a game was started, a loud buzzing noise was heard from the top right corner area of the backbox. Once the last ball fell and the game was over, the noise would go away. Until the next game was started.

Of course, this didn't stop my young boys from playing the game. About 2 hours of game play later over the course of that evening and the next morning, the game would no longer work when turned on. The coin door lights will come on, but nothing else will light up. Game will not start.

Taking a look inside, I discovered there's a fuse that has blown. I replaced the fuse, turned machine on, and fuse immediately blew again. It's the third fuse in a bank of four.

I'm assuming (and I'm probably wrong since I don't know anything about this stuff) that whatever was making the loud noise was a relay that was stuck. Possibly this burned out finally and is the cause of the fuse blowing? Not sure what to do first, any help appreciated.

Also, I found that the tilt mechanism is completely gone, there's no hanging wire and weight/bob.

#2 7 years ago

I would suspect you had a coil locked on in one of the score reels. You probably smoked the coil that's why your popping fuses. You'l need to inspect the score reels to see which one has the bad coil. It should be fairly obvious. It will be dark and stinky.

Once you replace the coil you'll need to figure out why it was locking on. Could be a stuck play field switch, misadjusted or missing score reel EOS switch or other...

#3 7 years ago

Can you point/tell us which coil was making the noise and the wire colours of the fuse that blows. Be careful, one fuse is connected to mains power. The mains fuse, normally the right hand one has blue wire and orange wires connected to it.
Do you have a schematic for your machine? If not when you order parts add it to the list.

and welcome to the wonderful world of EM's. you will find lots of help here.

image-10[1].jpg

#4 7 years ago

Ooh, the cabinet knocker is upper-right as well, likely culprit.

Hi-Deal is an awesome game, congrats and good luck on the repair.

#5 7 years ago

BTW - you can measure resistance across the coils with a multimeter, the one that fried should be a dead short (no resistance).

And read this fine piece from Pinball Master Clay Harrell
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

#6 7 years ago

Nunjo - thanks for the link I have been reading that document and some others as I am trying to digest info as much as I can.

This is the part I thought might be making the noise, but I didn't have the back open while noise was being made (only had back off while machine was unplugged) so I can't say for certain. At this point, I can't get that far since it won't turn on.

http://i.imgur.com/xQdKhJ9.png

It could have been one of the score reels as Alex suggested? But they were acting normally recording score while playing.

I have a full schematic - found it and some other materials inside the machine. I'm going to look up the fuse voltages and get them all replaced, just in case some are not the proper voltage by prior owner. I don't know how to read one of these yet, so I'm learning as I go on this too.

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

Nunjo - thanks for the link I have been reading that document and some others as I am trying to digest info as much as I can.
This is the part I thought might be making the noise, but I didn't have the back open while noise was being made (only had back off while machine was unplugged) so I can't say for certain. At this point, I can't get that far since it won't turn on.
http://i.imgur.com/xQdKhJ9.png
It could have been one of the score reels as Alex suggested? But they were acting normally recording score while playing.
I have a full schematic - found it and some other materials inside the machine. I'm going to look up the fuse voltages and get them all replaced, just in case some are not the proper voltage by prior owner. I don't know how to read one of these yet, so I'm learning as I go on this too.

that's the replay knocker.

If it was left locked on for a long time, it's more than likely fried. Once it is fried, it's an open or a dead short. So when you put a new fuse in and try to start the game up, the game tries to lock it on again for some reason, and since it's a dead short, it blows the fuse.

You can try and start the game up by replacing the fuse and clipping a lead to the knocker. It will no longer lock on and blow the fuse. You do need to figure out what is causing it to lock on. I don't have a schematic so I'm flying blind here, but on some games the switch to activate the knocker is on the credit unit. Other games have it on a relay.

Fuses are rated by amperage, not voltage. It's the rating of the amount of amps the fuse can take before it will blow.

the game should still light up, because the GI lights are independent of coil voltage. When you turn it on, press the left flipper button and you should get GI lights.

#8 7 years ago

What do you mean by clipping a lead to the knocker? How do I do that?

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

What do you mean by clipping a lead to the knocker? How do I do that?

Unsolder one of the wires from the coil. Or just clip it off right at the solder tab.

#10 7 years ago

Don't clip wires, desolder them. You probably have a switch on the playfield that's probably closed causing the associated 10, 100 or 1000 point relay to lock on. Find the switch and open the gap. Then replace the coil if it's shorted. When you turned the game on, did you hear a ding from the chime right away? If so it's a closed switch somewhere. The fuse you are describing is the fuse for the coils.

The fuses left to right are 15A for 6V insert lighting, 15A for 6V GI lighting, 10A for 50V coils and 8A for 120V mains. The voltage ratings for the left two fuses can be 32V or 250V. The right two fuses are to be 250V rated.

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from schudel5:

Don't clip wires, desolder them. You probably have a switch on the playfield that's probably closed causing the associated 10, 100 or 1000 point relay to lock on. Find the switch and open the gap. Then replace the coil if it's shorted. When you turned the game on, did you hear a ding from the chime right away? If so it's a closed switch somewhere. The fuse you are describing is the fuse for the coils.
The fuses left to right are 15A for 6V insert lighting, 15A for 6V GI lighting, 10A for 50V coils and 8A for 120V mains. The voltage ratings for the left two fuses can be 32V or 250V. The right two fuses are to be 250V rated.

Since he said the score reels were acting normally during game play, it doesn't seem likely that a stuck scoring switch is his issue here. The game was scoring properly but the buzzing was constant throught the game. And he said it appeared to be coming from the upper right, which is the knocker.

#12 7 years ago

I'd look at the schematic. Find the knocker coil in the chart and it will tell you where in the schematic it is located. I think on these Bally's there is the credit unit end-of stroke switch that energizes the knocker. The schematic will tell you the switch to look at.

If it is the end-of-stroke switch for the credit unit I think it's the one I circled in red. It should be open, but if it got bent when putting the back cover on, it could cause the knocker to lock on.

387933-i.jpg

#13 7 years ago

Two shots from inside my machine.

The missing fuse is the one that blew.

I'm heading to the store to hopefully find some fuses.

IMG_6282.JPG IMG_6284.JPG
#14 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

Two shots from inside my machine.
The missing fuse is the one that blew.
I'm heading to the store to hopefully find some fuses.

IMG_6282.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
IMG_6284.JPG (Click image to enlarge)

The fuse is a 10a 250v fuse. It is for the coils-see the 50v on the label? That is your clue. The game runs the coils on 50v and the lamps on 6v.

The knocker looks like total toast. Has to be your issue. Desolder a lead, put the new fuse in, game should run fine. I can't see the switches really well but I believe the knocker switch is on the bottom of the credit unit there by itself. It looks to be open but could be solder tabs or something else touching. In any case, you need to figure that one out.

#15 7 years ago

So when they're black like that, they've basically burnt out. Like really burnt out.

I have to say as well, thanks for all the help with this. Really awesome that I can sign up as a complete newbie to this place and get this much attention and help.

#16 7 years ago

That knocker coil on the top left of the box looks fried.

You'll notice all the other coils still have their wrapper and that one appears burnt off.

That's what I would disconnect.

If the fuse doesn't blow you've found the second part of your problem.

The first part is finding what is energizing the coil continuously.

You need a schematic for that.

#17 7 years ago

I de-soldered one lead to the knocker, replaced the fuse, and bam it's up and running again!

IMG_6286 (Medium).JPG

Pretty hard to play while holding the iphone in one hand...

Big thanks guys, now I'll check the schematic and try to figure out what burnt the knocker out, and buy a new one. Where is best place to buy one?

I saw inside the thing has 39,000+ games played. Holy smokes!

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

39,000+ games played. Holy smokes!

Just broken in.

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

I de-soldered one lead to the knocker, replaced the fuse, and bam it's up and running again!
IMG_6286 (Medium).JPG (Click image to enlarge)
Pretty hard to play while holding the iphone in one hand...
» YouTube video
Big thanks guys, now I'll check the schematic and try to figure out what burnt the knocker out, and buy a new one. Where is best place to buy one?
I saw inside the thing has 39,000+ games played. Holy smokes!

http://www.pbresource.com/index.html

The knocker is a pretty simple circuit. As I said in a previous post, I'm pretty sure it's the one on the bottom of the credit unit in the backbox. When the step up coil is activated to add a game to the credit wheel, the normally open switch is closed and that activates the knocker coil.

If you don't have much experience reading schematics, find the index for for the coils. It will show you the location on the schematic of that particular coil. Then, trace back from the coil on the schematic and you will see the switch or switches involved in the circuit that all have to be closed in order for the knocker coil to activate. Find whatever is closed when it shouldn't be and that should be the cure.

I looked at the schematic for a Bally Hang Glider, which is from the same period as your game. According to that schematic, the only switch in the path for the knocker coil is the credit unit EOS (end of stroke) switch. So do this. By hand activate the coil on the credit unit that adds a game to the credit wheel. You'll see when you do this the lever attached to the plunger that goes into that coil will close a switch when the plunger is fully into the coil. That's the switch you're looking for. Make sure it is open. Also make sure that the solder tabs for that switch aren't bent so they're touching together, or the switch isn't somehow else being shorted across.

Also, the coil for the knocker for Hang Glider is AK-27-1300. That means the frame size of the coil is AK, the 27 is the gauge of the wire, and the 1300 is the number of turns of wire. That coil would normally test out somewhere in the range of 13 ohms. Not a coil designed for very high power like a power side of a flipper coil, but also not a coil designed for long term "on" duty which is why after the game was played for awhile with it locked on, it burned up.

I'm sure that would be the same coil for the knocker for your game. But obviously before you install the new coil, you want to find the cause of it locking on, or you'll burn the new one up too.

#20 7 years ago

as EMsInKC points out.

Quoted from EMsInKC:

The knocker is a pretty simple circuit.

To help you out with schematics, read the above post looking at this bit of schematic, this is for a wizard, even the wire colours should be the same.

Bally_1975_Knocer_COLOUR.png

#21 7 years ago

LOL, he won't be able to read that very well, the switches that are in the circuit are not named.

Something looks wrong there. Why would the credit EOS be on the 1000 point chime circuit?

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from EMsInKC:

Something looks wrong there. Why would the credit EOS be on the 1000 point chime circuit?

Its not 1000 point Re it is the knocker, bad cut and paste. the Blue/orange wire is knocker. the 1000 point Re is to the left of the text.

#23 7 years ago

Sorry for the delay on responding. I have the original schematic at home and will try and post a pic tonight of the proper section.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from dirk40:

Sorry for the delay on responding. I have the original schematic at home and will try and post a pic tonight of the proper section.

Well, it's above already. All there is to the circuit is the credit unit EOS switch. This should be pretty easy to figure out.

#25 7 years ago

Mine looks a bit different, and it unfortunately isn't the fancy color version, but it's probably the same answer.
knocker_BallyHiDeal.JPG

#26 7 years ago

That's cool, so you have two SWs to check. Sounds like for each ball the knocker fires.

7 years later
#27 3 months ago

Hi guys. This post from 7 years ago was actually very helpful. Same problem with the 10 score real firing. Narrowed it down to right slingshot, upper leaf switch.

Two questions please, is this the right leaf switch? SW-1A-120. I have the manual and schematic both, but it doesn’t identify which switch is used in the game.

Also will any 30 amp, 200 V bridge rectifier work? That’s what was originally installed.

Here is what I am thinking will work - would love some verification. Thanks. Larry

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