New classic:
Am I the only one that is upset?!!

In terms of ability to sell a game, no.

Though I feel like the timing of this thread is bad, Jaws is sure to be one of his worst sellers based on price alone, waiting for the sales to parse out would be the perfect time to cackle at the downfall of everyone's 'precious' Keith Elwin.

Some get it-some don't

-You can continue listening to your soccer mom rock until your ears bleed-some people have really shitty taste in music-I get it

311 is awesome and Poo Fighters does not even hold a candle to them(if not for Nirvana-they would be a zero)

I mean that's one stacked ass bracket for worst bands; 90s are no joke.
I think they squeek by a couple of the #1 seeds: 4 non Blondes, Creed, Nickleback, Spin Doctors ... but it's tight.
They are just fucking God awfull.

Anyone have a bad experience with [personal grudge]?

dude ive heard better karaoke at the meth bar.

Dude, I'm a punk rocker, grew up at 924 Gilman, swing and a miss, thanks for playing.
B

Go ahead and drop the address please

311 sounds like the love-child of Rage Against The Machine and Red Hot Chili Peppers

You forget the worst fucking band to ever exist: U2

I am a deadhead, jamband man, and advocate for good music instrumentals

Different strokes for differnt folks-much like pinball preferences

Keep on rockin'

Not the only wonder wonder where the hell the “meth bar” is? ccbiggsoo7 you a regular????

Not close to a 90s band.
Plus even when they got shitty they'd never drop a "Amber is the color of your energy" FFS.

sorry, locals only.... the pole dancers are quite a treat.

This "debate" will be laid to rest very shortly.

How do you make it not about multiballs? To complete a city, you need to do Mecha MB, Tank MB, Bridge MB, Building MB…I might be forgetting a few. Sure, you can skip them and change cities after winning a Kaiju fight - but you lose that sweet sweet bonus. I guess if you commit to skipping city bonuses, then the game will feel more balanced and less MB heavy…but that’s not how I played, and the 45 min games with all Multiball & 1 Kaiju fight got exhausting to me.

Again - fantastic game…the physical and code design is AAA as far as pinball goes - but I just wasn’t playing it compared to my Rush, Foo & JP. So, I sold it and put a Deadpool in its spot, and so far I’m loving that game.

Agreed. JP just has a satisfying rhythm to it that always leaves me feeling good. If I have a short “bad” game, I’ve still done a good variety of things - a T-Rex mode or two, a few paddocks, a control room mode or two, Raptor MB, a few shots at smart missile, maybe CHAOS….and then if I have a long good game - the rising difficulty of the paddocks is really fun to me, and it’s a tangible feeling of progress to try to get as far into the park as I can.

Yeah. The common thread between all his games is something physically dynamic on the playfield that changes the physical environment. Godzilla's building and rotating spinner, of course. JP's truck and how it blocks or unblocks the shots behind it (but you can still just barely hit the trap targets even when they're blocked!) AIQ's disc, where the physical position at any moment significantly changes what you can shoot for in that area. Maiden has the least physical dynamism, but there's still a bit on the premium in loading the mummy ball and the raising underworld entrance.

As for the thread topic - only Godzilla is overrated. I agree with the opinions that there's too much bloat in the game. It can be like twenty minutes between kaiju battles while you play all the other lengthy ball saver modes and multiballs with add-a-balls. It's still great and top 10 or 20, just not really the GOAT. That's Jurassic Park - that game is Godzilla minus all the bloat and honed to a razor sharp test of skill. Godzilla is for amateurs who want to think they're good, JP is for players who actually are good. Meanwhile, AIQ and Maiden are correctly rated, some flaws but overall also in the top few dozen. (AIQ's problem is that its layout doesn't match its theme. It would have worked better with a Thanos bash toy than endless flow combos that don't actually do anything in the modes. AIQ's other problem is the insulting callouts, that accounts for probably at least half the hate for the game.)

It's a song about weed, if that makes it any good-er.

Considering the detour this thread has inevitably taken, it begs the question: Who is worse at their craft, Elwin or 311?

Bad game? That's a great game for me!

I have recently got back into buying pins, all newer Sterns and have really enjoyed Elwin's designs. I think they are interesting and inventive in the way he moves the ball around the playfield, changing directions with ramps and diverters. The software is also very good as far as I can tell across all his games. I'm not a good player so I am no expert on the inner workings and strategies but they are fun. The only letdown is some of the art and sound in AIQ could be better and I wish JP had more movie integration.

For me, theme is huge so I really like AIQ and JP. Not an Iron Maiden fan. I do have Godzilla on my short list for next pin.

In my opinion, he is one of the best designers today and probably would be in the rankings against the greats from the B/W era. But not every pin by the best designers will be a top-rated game over time, just most.

It certainly does not. There's no shortage of 90s weed songs and non of rhem make white guys dance like that one does. The horror.

Well, us crappy players need to feel good about ourselves sometime.

When I was a kid in the 70's and 80's I never knew or cared about who designed the game I was playing. I just played whatever I liked.

40 years later I'm still the same way.

Mr. Elwin is a great designer. But let's say after 20 designs - will there be a noticable , repetitive feel? As in all designers...

Too close to call.
Elwin is best on the poll.
311 better with a bowl?

Brian Eddy.

Scott Danesi

“Godzilla is for amateurs who want to think they're good”

YES! I think this sums up the love for this game. When I got into pinball everyone wanted the harder games to challenge them to play better. Games like Walking Dead were championed. But the newer Sterns and especially Elwin games have such easy to hit and easy to save shots with easy multiballs and endless ball saver and add a balls. Newer players would stroke on classic games because of the lack of ball saver. Elwin needs to add a little more chaos and risk to his shots. That’s what gave Ritchie and Lawlor’s flow their balance. Ritchie’s intense speed and tighter shots and Lawlor with his damn ball drains from the pops. Oh, and agree that Godzilla has one of the worst ball plunges in history.

I like that we have such a vast amount of good pinball designer's in the pinball world. All of them bring some really cool things to the table. Ellen is up there in his Pinball designs. I really enjoyed playing games and on all of them Jurassic Park is a very challenging game, and Godzilla on the other hand not so much. I am really looking forward to seeing what Elwin has put together for Jaws. Hoping it’s extremely challenging like Jurassic Park. We shall see next week. Excited!!!

No, it probably just all looks like cartoons to us. This is the problem with being a super fan of anything that the little things can tick you off.

This post should be stickied, everything else after it deleted,and the thread closed.

1000% on point - especially on "godzilla is for those who want to feel like they are a good player...JP is for those who ARE a good pinball player or want to become a good pinball player"

And I say that with the farthest I've ever gotten is the 2nd Raptor or the Pteranodon on JP. I absolutely suck, but after playing JP, I feel like I could get LITZ or Mansion Tour on ball 1.

Yes, I have a hat with a net on top to help me, you should try one!

I’m all over this thread. Aside from Foo still being up in the air until code is finished, these are the only 3 keepers I’ve found in pinball so far. I’ve owned some others and play all the rest out on locations and if I’m to spend north of 10k on a pin again it will almost certainly come from Team Elwin. Please remember it’s not just Keith rather it’s the whole group. They’re the pinnacle of pinball creators right now. It’s that simple.

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I'm with you but I tossed IM and kept AIQ.

I play AIQ on locations but stopped because I realize I need to get that one home to understand it. Someday but I have a feeling Jaws will be next. We shall see.

Sales of these pins and how long Stern is running them should tell you what you’re looking for in an answer.

billy-madison-dont-you-say-that.gif

There it is.
To me it looks like evey other comic strip. Plus I don't sit around & stare at artwork...but of course I'm not an artist.

Ryan McQuaid

https://pinside.com/pinball/machine/sonic-the-hedgehog-spinball

But it's right above the flippers you can't help but stare; funny thing is they're other elements/assets scattered along the PF that came out amazing but they "F" it up in the center lol the most important part where your eyes spend the most amount of time. Whatever make Ironman stiff like a C-3PO that shit his draws who cares.

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Guess we're all lucky.

I think there are 3 things that do it for me with these pins. 1) There’s no lanes above pop nests that take up a good chunk of real estate and 2) the bottom left of these pins are packed with challenging fun shots rather the common 2-3 targets or in some cases nothing lastly 3)the rules provide longevity/options. One other note imo the building is not the main attraction in GZ as all it does (still dope) is spill out balls during play stoppage. The bridge with the grab is where it’s at. To me that whole mech is the #1 thing ever implemented in a pinball machine and please explain to me what Gotlieb they copied that from ? I’ll wait …….

I’ll say this for 311, they’re not Nickelback. I guess that’s not really saying much?

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lmfao

Haha, that’s why I put “bad” in quotes. Only “bad” in the sense that I didn’t progress very far thru the map. Still very fun and satisfying with a lot of mode variety.

I personally don't think so. KME has some truly out of the box layouts. I call him the "familiar, but different" designer. You recognize similarities to shots from other games, but he places them just a teeeeny bit differently to make it original. For example, the upper left loop and left orbit on Iron Maiden. The left orbit reminds me of the left orbit from F-14 with the "hanging flipper." It's not on the left end of the game, it's more towards the middle. And also the gap below that flipper reminds me a lot of the camera shot on TZ. He coalesced those two elements for a unique design.

I think I also remember him mentioning Trudeau and Lawlor as an influence. Eg, the left ramp on IMDN is the mirrored version of Congo and RS's right ramp. Nice touch. Also, he doesn't copy the usual left orbit/left ramp, target bank/toy/ right ramp/right orbit (and X themed items in between) pattern we've seen on so many games for the last 3 decades (and there's nothing wrong with that style, it still works). He also has unique uses for up-post locks, like JP and AIQ. IDK what it is, but I can't stand up-posts on games like MET and IM on top of the orbits that slow the ball down to let it fall to the jet bumper/rollover corral (another design cliche). Keith makes a cool use of hitting a target, triggering an up-post to lock that ball (JP). It felt like a unique cross between the T2 database lock and older Bally/Gottliebs with a lone standup. The left orbit on GZ goes to a ramp (NOT the usual clockwise/counterclockwise orbit pattern).

His use of magnets are truly original. The lock tower in AIQ is badass and the newton/magna grab post is one of a kind. The way the ball is held, then swung up in an S-pattern to the left orbit blew my mind. I've never seen that before. And the island/floating flipper on GZ is original. The elevating/dropping diverter building in GZ is nothing short of genius. Maybe I sound weird, but I notice and appreciate details like that. There are more examples of his originality, but I don't want to drone on. I'm sure Jaws will blow our minds again. Keith is still a very new designer, so hopefully he'll maintain his originality and freshness in the years and decades to come.

In my opinion? No. They are the best and absolute keepers.