(Topic ID: 83429)

5 ball: Why does it exist and does anyone use it?

By Dommer

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Dommer
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    #62 10 years ago

    I'm really surprised at how many people have all their games on 5 balls. I grew up in the 70s and the games were all 5 balls then, and it was late 80s that they went to 3 (and yes, as others have said I felt cheated) and it went to .50 pretty darn quick after that. I keep most of my games set as they were when the first hit the arcades. EMs on 5 early 80s games on 5 (except Centaur), the rest on 3.

    In Chicago pinball mafia league play all games but EMs must be on 3 and I've argued when I host that Eight Ball Deluxe should be on 5, it is way too tough a game (I know I need to play three or four games just to get warmed up on it), plus more important in a league where you play in rounds, you want the games to play close to the same length as possible, and that is not the case if you put early 80s games on 3 ball. We do play with no extra balls on modern Sterns (but one on all other games).

    I found the experiment someone talked about on 5 vs 3 with novice players very interesting, and does make sense, more balls means a longer game, and you can accomplish more and get to know the game. Anytime a game is really short you feel cheated, no matter what your skill level. My custom game lets you choose your difficulty level at the start of your first ball, when on 'easy' it makes various things easier to achieve, whether locking balls, lighting kick backs or starting a mode, and also has a really long ball save. I may have to consider also having easy be a 5 ball game (or maybe add new 'super easy' difficulty level) -- could be a little confusing when playing with players at different skills settings since some will have their game end sooner then others, but don't see that as show stopper.

    #83 10 years ago
    Quoted from schudel5:

    Newer games have ball save and dole out extra balls as part of game play. No need to play 7 or 8 balls per game IMHO.

    This is a great point, older games had far fewer ways to earn an extra ball and certainly no ball save (other then if you scored 0). So even though it is a 3 ball game, if your reasonably good, you will get 4 to 5 balls (setting aside the novices).

    You can also make the argument that for 'non league/tourney play', you need to have those extra balls to achieve the wizard mode type objectives (well, unless you are one of the top dozen or so players in the world). On most of my games I do have special give an extra ball, except if hosting the league, when I will set them to points, since extra balls either don't get payed or you get just one. Points are not "special"

    As far as who asked if you stop playing after 3 even if it is set to 5, and you are a 3 ball kind of guy, the answer is no, since as others have stated the game rules often based on that setting, so if it is 5 balls, that is what you play.

    #92 10 years ago
    Quoted from ccotenj:

    the designer intended the machine to make money

    Well, the operator wants a machine that will make money and the designer needs to support that. The designer wants to create a game that people will want to play and keep playing. Which means a theme that attracts them to try the game, and then game play they enjoy, find challenging and draws them back by either providing exciting play or establishes challenges they want to strive for. If the designer succeeds in those things, then the operator will make money, and the manufacturer will as well as more of those games will be sold and the designer will get to design more games. Game objectives, like wizard modes, are supposed to keep you coming back to play more. They need to be designed to be achievable (an for the player to feel they are), but at the same time require the player to keep playing.

    However, ball and game time is certainly a factor for an operator and for how the game is designed. If EBD was a 3 ball game when it came out, it would not do well, players would feel they the games were too short, that there were 'cheated' and they would go put there money elsewhere. Nobody wants a game to be over in a minute or two, and few if any want a game that takes an hour. I think most would agree that the DMD era games have sufficient ball/game times at three balls, with a few exceptions, that also meet the criteria to keep a player entertained, challenged and coming back, and it will let you, with skill and time, achieve the more advanced objectives. The three ball games of the DMD era, take longer to play then 5 ball games of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Seems like three balls on those game is what is right.

    Like most things in life, it is all about balance. A game that balances all of these things will be successful for both the operator, the location player and the collector.

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