(Topic ID: 3470)

Williams f-14 tomcat no music, has voice and sound

By Roger450

13 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Whiskers
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 13 years ago

Hello !
I am brand new to this site and hate to have to start out with asking for help on a problem I cant seem to figure out. My f-14 awhile back stopped playing music. All other sounds/speech seem to be working during the game and in attract mode. I had a fellow that worked at an arcade repair shop come by and looked it over. He told me that it was a bad sound board. I purchased a rebuilt, fully test sound board and installed it today. Still nothing, I have looked the MPU 11a over carefully and noticed previous repair work done on Q72 transistor TIP122, good job in my opinion, but I did see acid damage from the batteries at one time has coroded some of the componets, I took a toothbrush and vinegar and cleaned the areas. I havent noticed any burns. I have double and triple checked all the connections and fuses. I just read where someone was having speaker issues, is this common?Dose the music play thru the bottom speaker. The Eprom at U24 has a sticker on it saying "proto 5" Anybody ever come across that. Is there a way to test it or is it better to get new ones. Sorry for the lengthy story, thanks for any help out there.

#2 13 years ago

That Q72 is for solenoids and not related to the music so that shouldn't be the problem.

Sounds and music should come from all speakers as far as I know (only have experience with system 11c games).

It sounds like your issue is on the CPU board or in the data connection between CPU board and sound board. You could try replacing the flat cables or at least wiggle them and see if the issue is related to a bad connection.

Acid damage, while appearing to have been removed completely, can still be there eating your chips if the cleanup job was not properly done. I would suspect and replace any chip that appears to have had any acid on it. The music eeprom would also be a good candidate to try and replace.

#3 13 years ago

Is the volume control part of the board ? .. My last sound problem was simply the old carbon wiper potentiometer going out/intermittent.

#4 13 years ago

Thank you for your input.

Robin, your right, I just tested the speakers this morning and I do have sound/speech coming thru all three. I did remove the flat cable completely and didnt notice a change in anything, I still had sound/speech. It connects to the "Widget I/O" Ok you got me on that one, not sure what a widget is, but I will Wiki it. I guess I could have a bad cable??
Any recommendation on where to get a replacement eeprom for the music??

Brokedad, its an off board part connected by a gray cable, it is very scratchy sounding when I make adjustments to it, I thought about replacing it since it was so easy to get to. I also read on here where someone suggested unplugging the cable, the volume would max out but just to see if the music came back. IDK about this.

#5 13 years ago

OK, meter the cable out, it checks ok, went back and was rereading some tech notes, sometimes this helps, this is what I found.

CPU Sound Diagnostic Switch SW1.
Testing the sound circuitry is only possible after successful completion of the system 11 power-on CPU tests (as described above). That is, the game must boot properly and go into "attract" mode, with no power-on beep tones.

Well I'm getting one beep tone on power up and then after hitting start and shooting first ball it beeps one time again.

It also went on to say...

On the left side of the CPU board there are two switches. The top switch SW1 is the sound diagnostic switch. If you press this button, you should get two test sounds. This shows that the CVSD (Continuously Variable Slope Delta) modulator, which produces the game's voices, and the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) sound circuits are working.

I'm only getting one that sounds like a bomb drop

#6 13 years ago

Now I'm going try this:

No Sound: sound/speech board is not operating, or a failure is affecting the sound circuitry (broken or disconnected cable, dead amplifier, bad speaker).
One Tone: U23 RAM chip error.
Two Tones: U21 ROM chip error.
Three Tones: U22 ROM chip error.
Four Tones: U21 ROM chip error.
Five Tones: U22 ROM chip error.
No Sound when CPU switch SW1 is Pressed (but sound heard during diagnostic tests).
Check the sound select inputs (U9 pins 2-9) with a logic probe to see if they pulse during Sound Test 01. Also check the -12 volt supply voltage on the CPU board. If this voltage is low (or AC ripple seems high), perform the following checks (you can check for ripple using your meter set to AC volts; more than .75 AC volts is probably too much AC ripple).

#7 13 years ago

Eproms are one of the things I've done for people. Let me know if you need one/some.

Here is a great page for what you are working on with part numbers, schematics, etc:

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/PDF%20Pinball%20Misc/Williams%20System%2011a%20Schematics.pdf

#8 13 years ago

Thanks Brokedad ! That's some great info.

I just went into the sound diagnostic, test 1 thru 9 produced sounds and voice but test 10 thru 17 were quiet. Could that be from a bad eprom?
What can be done for an eprom thats bad, just replace it, right.
Do you test them or program them?

#9 13 years ago

An eprom can be erased with UV light and reprogrammed. A prom is a one shot deal. They all need to match the MPU jumper settings. You can't mix proms and eproms. The only way to check them is to load their contents and verify the checksum value.

#10 13 years ago

Well after getting a new sound board, freshly programed proms form Brokedad, and checking the ribbon cable, wires, transistors, fuses and potentiometer, I still get sounds and voice but no music. Has anyone ever seen traces on the pcb board lift and wrinkle. I found several spots around the mpu 11a board. Wonder if that might be an issue?

2 years later
#11 10 years ago

I know this is real old but i'm having the same exact same problem. I'm thinking by reading this that its the ribbon cable cause this guy didn't replace it?

#12 10 years ago

In the first post he mentions that he metered it out....but for the price and age, its probably worth trying first besides looking for the obvious, reseating connectors, etc...

Quoted from Ronnie1114:

I know this is real old but i'm having the same exact same problem. I'm thinking by reading this that its the ribbon cable cause this guy didn't replace it?

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from burningman:

In the first post he mentions that he metered it out....but for the price and age, its probably worth trying first besides looking for the obvious, reseating connectors, etc...

So you are saying that it is a good idea to change the ribbon cable?

#14 10 years ago

I'd change the sound roms and also the cable. (Reseating them might work, unplug and plug back in).

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Luckydogg420:

I'd change the sound roms and also the cable. (Reseating them might work, unplug and plug back in).

Got them on order.

1 week later
#16 10 years ago

I actually have the exact opposite problem on my f14 that hopefully someone can please help me with- no tone at startup, no tone when I push the test button on the CPU, and in diagnostic mode, no sound for 01-07, but I do have everything else- and same thing in the game, music sounds great, just no voices. I can barely hear the voices in attract mode- a very very light now you die! For instance, which made me think it was an amp problem, so I replaced u11, 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17, no luck though. I appreciate any ideas anyone may have.

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from Whiskers:

I actually have the exact opposite problem on my f14 that hopefully someone can please help me with- no tone at startup, no tone when I push the test button on the CPU, and in diagnostic mode, no sound for 01-07, but I do have everything else- and same thing in the game, music sounds great, just no voices. I can barely hear the voices in attract mode- a very very light now you die! For instance, which made me think it was an amp problem, so I replaced u11, 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17, no luck though. I appreciate any ideas anyone may have.

The speech chip is actually on the MPU board I believe. Confusing, but I think that is where your problem lies.

#18 10 years ago

Thanks for the note. For my understanding, what's the difference in symptoms if the problem is the cvsd chip on the sound board vs the sound chip on the CPU?

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