(Topic ID: 15901)

TECH: LOTR LE flipper fuse & transistor failed

By Snailman

12 years ago


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#1 12 years ago

Bought a HUO very low play LOTR LE. Looked and played like NIB up until the left flipper failed while I was cradling the ball. Thought it was the known LOTR flipper coil issue, but after inspection, saw the coil fuse was blown.

When I replaced the fuse as listed (3A, 250V SB), immediately upon power-up (while game was still booting), the flipper fully actuated, held the up position for a second or two, and then gave out. New fuse had immediately blown before I could even press the start button.

Checked out the board, and sure enough, Q15 transistor failed the continuity test using multimeter. I'm going to remove the board, and I've got some quality time planned with a fellow pinhead who is adept in circuit board soldering to replace the transistor.

My question is: Do I need to peel back the troubleshooting onion one layer further to determine why the transistor went bad? (ie. EOS switch, etc.) Or have enough of you out there just simply had transistor failure issues with Stern's flipper transistors?

EOS switch seems to register appropriately in the Dedicated Switch test, but I don't know how to check if EOS needs adjusting beyond that. Any suggestions/instructions, or links to other threads that describe how to do this would be much appreciated. Thanks.

#2 12 years ago

This is a COMMON problem with the LE. Not your fault at all. Both of my flipper transistors failed within 8 months in my NIB game. Replace it with the beefier transistor (IRL450N--about $2 each from various sources), and it will be no problem. In fact, I highly recommend ordering a few extras and replacing both transistors (q15 and q16?) at the same time. Save you the hassle later.

Big Daddy has 5 for $9: http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/electronics/e_transistors.htm Pinbits also has them, etc.

Mine fried simply from holding the flipper up for a minute or so. Once during multiball, once when explaining rules to a friend during a game. Stern used sh!tty transistors, is all.

The LOTR flipper coil issue is something else entirely. The flippers would get weaker after long playing periods because the coils would heat up and not cool fast enought. This is NOT an issue with the LEs, and you shouldn't replace the LE flipper coils.

#3 12 years ago

Thanks, Steven.

#4 12 years ago

Thanks for the info Steven. I may purchase a few as you recommend just in case...

#5 12 years ago

Yeah, I bought extras and they've already been used by a friend! Note that the diode is usually still good--all you need to do is replace the transistor itself and the fuse that blew.

Another tip: If you're ordering parts, you may want to order a couple of spare VUK switches (for Gimli and the SHire). These tend to flake out after a while; best to have replacements on hand!

#6 12 years ago
Quoted from StevenP:

Another tip: If you're ordering parts, you may want to order a couple of spare VUK switches (for Gimli and the SHire).

Yep, I purchased some soon after I got my LOTR LE. The Shire VUK is the only one I have had problems with though and that has been fine for over a year now.

#7 12 years ago

Thanks again. New transistor (beefier variety) in place with the board soldering help of Gerry of PinballControllers.com. Left flipper works fine now.

Noticed that the other flipper transistor (Q16) had been replaced -- also with beefy transistor -- prior to my acquiring the pin. So hopefully I'll be good to go for awhile protecting the Shire and Helm's Deep.

Last adjustment needed is to tweak the Gandalf inner loop gate (in front of Orthanc tower). When mine is in the open position (War of Ents mode and the end of Gandalf v Sarumon) the gate is a loud buzzing rattling nuisance, essentially vibrating in the open position. Is this just a simple adjustment following the tech bulletin/guidance in the manual, or something else?

#8 12 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Thanks again. New transistor (beefier variety) in place with the board soldering help of Gerry of PinballControllers.com. Left flipper works fine now.
Noticed that the other flipper transistor (Q16) had been replaced -- also with beefy transistor -- prior to my acquiring the pin. So hopefully I'll be good to go for awhile protecting the Shire and Helm's Deep.
Last adjustment needed is to tweak the Gandalf inner loop gate (in front of Orthanc tower). When mine is in the open position (War of Ents mode and the end of Gandalf v Sarumon) the gate is a loud buzzing rattling nuisance, essentially vibrating in the open position. Is this just a simple adjustment following the tech bulletin/guidance in the manual, or something else?

Yup, adjust it per the tech bulletin and it should be fine. Might be hitting the side too early, so the coil is buzzing while trying to pull it more.

#9 12 years ago

It only blows because Snailman has marathon multi-hour games like no other human being on earth ;-p

#10 12 years ago

Hello! I "believe" I have this exact problem...my left flipper is out and keeps blowing a fuse on power up. I'm still rather new to the hobby, so pardon my ignorance...where is this transitor mentioned above? How do I remove it? Is the transistor part only available online? I found the fuses at Home Depot (they are all fried now from me replacing them). I have very few games on this unit...and bought it NIB. I guess this is my first "real" tech problem (just as I was getting into the game!) Thanks for any advice you can offer.

#11 12 years ago
Quoted from fattrain:

It only blows because Snailman has marathon multi-hour games like no other human being on earth ;-p

Hehehe

#12 12 years ago
Quoted from Brads_User_Name:

my left flipper is out and keeps blowing a fuse on power up. I'm still rather new to the hobby, so pardon my ignorance...where is this transitor mentioned above? How do I remove it? Is the transistor part only available online?

In the lower circuit board behind the backglass -- toward bottom middle of the board. Left flipper uses a transistor labeled Q15. Test it using a multimeter. Do a continuity test.

Replace Q16 while you're at it (for the R flipper). Use transistor recommended above by StevenP.
I didn't look locally in stores for the transistor.

You have to use soldering tools to remove old transistor and install new transistor. I'm fortunate enough to know someone who lives close by who is very skilled at soldering on circuit boards.

#13 12 years ago

The manual also has the info above--circuit and board diagrams, transistor locations, etc. Seriously, how many fuses did you blow? Because after the second one, you should realize that there's a problem that needs fixing! A fuse blows when there's an overload of current. Replacing a fried fuse does not repair the underlying problem.

1 year later
#14 10 years ago

Just fyi to all this problem is alive and well on TAV. Q15 gone after cradling a ball. Do I bother going through warranty? Have a good desoldering gun - i'm thinking no. Why doesn't stern fix this?

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/tf-le-fusetransistor-issue#post-133898

#15 10 years ago

At some point, they upgraded the 22NE10L transistors to 40NE10L, but it didn't fix the problem. I had one of the 40NE10L ones fail in my Tron, and I would guess your TAV has the newer ones as well. Has anyone had an IRL540 fail after replacing it?

2 months later
#16 10 years ago

bump. This failure just happened to my left flipper. To repeat herg's question, "Has anyone had an IRL450N fail after replacing it"? I need to order the parts and want to confirm that this is the way to go. Many thanks in advance for any responses.

#17 10 years ago

I think with all the games he has owned/owns, Markmon would be able to answer this question assuming he uses the IRL540 as a replacement. Mine in LOTR LE has held up fine for about a year.

By the way, Pinbits sells them for $2.

http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15&products_id=266

#18 10 years ago

There are some crappy electrical components out there. Not the pinball manufacturers fault. We are seeing higher than normal failure rates than we used to for new products.

LTG : )

8 months later
#19 9 years ago

Hi,

I had some problem with my right flipper. Fuse was blown, so I replaced it to make sure it isnt just a fuse problem... blew again.

Tested Q15 and Q16, Q15 beeped the continuity test therefore failed.

I ordered these : IRL540NPBF-ND (couldn't find IRL540N only on digikey) I was wondering if they are OK. They seems to be spec-wise...

Anyhow, I replaced both Q15 and Q16 with the newer transistor. The flipper fuse blew on startup and the new Q15 blew as well.

What do you guys think, bad coil?

1 month later
#20 9 years ago

I had a tech replace the Q15 transistor on my board, I had asked him to replace Q16, but didnt have two transistors and then last night Q16 blows as Im holding the ball .

I want to try to replace it myself. I need to get thinner soldier, he had 22 gauge. He also sprayed the board and brushed it down with a tooth brush after the soldier job. Was this an anti static spray? Any recommendations on a specific spray to get?

#21 9 years ago

He may have been removing excess solder flux residue from the board repair using Flux-off spray.

1 month later
#22 9 years ago

Thanks guys, q15 seems to be my problem too

1 week later
#23 9 years ago

so which one do I need, cant find the irl450n anywhere, but some of you are saying the irl540 will work too? Which is it????

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:

so which one do I need, cant find the irl450n anywhere, but some of you are saying the irl540 will work too? Which is it????

540

1 month later
#25 9 years ago

For the record, BDK, *exact* same issue.

#26 9 years ago
Quoted from Chronik:

Hi,
I had some problem with my right flipper. Fuse was blown, so I replaced it to make sure it isnt just a fuse problem... blew again.
Tested Q15 and Q16, Q15 beeped the continuity test therefore failed.
I ordered these : IRL540NPBF-ND (couldn't find IRL540N only on digikey) I was wondering if they are OK. They seems to be spec-wise...
Anyhow, I replaced both Q15 and Q16 with the newer transistor. The flipper fuse blew on startup and the new Q15 blew as well.
What do you guys think, bad coil?

Are the ones from digikey ok? I was thinking of making an order from digikey anyway and I would have to get the same ones.

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from brad808:

Are the ones from digikey ok?

Yes, the IRL540NPBF-ND is the same part, just Digikey's part number.

3 years later
#28 5 years ago

I've upgraded to IRL540's and still blowing them. Getting sick of replacing these every week (commercial setting). I've been thinking about socketing the transistor, that's how often I'm having to change them....

10 months later
#29 4 years ago
Quoted from MartyFnMcfly:

I've upgraded to IRL540's and still blowing them. Getting sick of replacing these every week (commercial setting). I've been thinking about socketing the transistor, that's how often I'm having to change them....

Did you ever figure out a solution?
Mine are now blowing again, too. IRL540s. So frustrated. Had just fixed and replaced bad Gimli switch, after having my LOTR LE down for many months from being lazy replacing the gimli switch.

#30 4 years ago

I put in BUK9529 on my Metallica and its working fine now.

#31 4 years ago
Quoted from pcprogrammer:

I put in BUK9529 on my Metallica and its working fine now.

Thanks. But aren’t the Metallica flipper coils different design when what Stern used for Whitestar-era LOTR? There are no diodes on the flipper could themselves for my LOTR LE coils.

#32 4 years ago

FYI: here’s a handy other topic that contains really good insights on *what* is causing the Stern flipper transistors to fail frequently.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-transistor-question#post-5448257

#33 4 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Thanks. But aren’t the Metallica flipper coils different design when what Stern used for Whitestar-era LOTR? There are no diodes on the flipper could themselves for my LOTR LE coils.

The diodes are on the circuit board for LOTR LE

#34 4 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Thanks. But aren’t the Metallica flipper coils different design when what Stern used for Whitestar-era LOTR? There are no diodes on the flipper could themselves for my LOTR LE coils.

I think the diodes are on the power driver board for Metallica.

#35 4 years ago

For the purposes of choosing a flipper transistor, all Whitestar and SAM are essentially the same, but the BUK9529 has been obsoleted. It may still be available if you look around, but if you're wanting to replace with a part with higher specs, I would be tempted to try a IRLB4030PBF.

#36 4 years ago

The below is advice from the other tread I linked above from user @schwaggs.
The explanation about the transistor heat generation makes a lot of sense when coupled with the PWM flipper hold design.

Has anyone tried either (a) the replacement of the flipper transistor diodes, or (b) installing heatsinks on the flipper transistors? And did it successfully solve the frequent blown transistor issue if you use a cradle/control multiball play style? (this is how I play)

"MOSFETs do not generate meaningful heat when "off" and very minimal heat when "on" due to their low "on" resistance. When operated between on and off, significant heat can be generated. MOSFETs are best used as switches, either on or off. It is during the transition from "on to off" or "off to on" when some heat can be generated. The slower this transition is made, the more potential there is for heat to be generated. While the flipper is in hold state, the Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) function rapidly turns the MOSFET on and off many times per second to prevent the flipper coil from overheating. If the transition occurs "slowly", significant heat could be generated during an extended flipper hold. This is also why someone suggested removing the .01 capacitor that is on the MOSFET gate lead. Capacitors slow the change of voltage both on and off and could cause the MOSFET to be in the on-off or off-on transition slightly longer than without the cap. However, the cap is most likely there to reduce noise in the circuit or for the purpose Ed mentioned above.

I doubt the capacitor is the cause of the problem. If it was, they would have removed it from the design on future machines, which they have not.

I suspect the clamping diode associated with that MOSFET has gone bad or is weak. When you replace the MOSFET, put a new 1N4004 or better yet, a 1N4007 diode in the circuit. The diode numbers match the MOSFET numbers (i.e. Q14's diode is D14, etc)."

#37 4 years ago
Quoted from herg:

For the purposes of choosing a flipper transistor, all Whitestar and SAM are essentially the same, but the BUK9529 has been obsoleted. It may still be available if you look around, but if you're wanting to replace with a part with higher specs, I would be tempted to try a IRLB4030PBF.

I was able to easily buy it and it actually works. I can confirm P40N10L does not work. Caused a flipper stuttering issue with the flippers. I called stern on this and they said BUK9529 was fine and they used it on boards. BUK9529 were the originals that were installed by Stern on my MET power driver board.

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