If I was in the market for an MM I would.

I think to buy you'll need to be okay with selling it for less at some point...

If you love to play MM and have to have one to play but don't care about future value than get one…

No… as soon as you plug it in kiss some cash goodbye.

1000's… way too many. 1000 LE's and plenty of Standards. No real difference between the two.

As far as playability it sounds like its close but if you're concerned at all about collectibility its not even close...

Newer but never better… who knows what issues lie ahead.

Not so much anymore… where have you been?

I ordered an MMRLE. I have no thoughts about it holding its value. I always wanted an MM and now I can have one. I expect with the ~1000 of them hitting the market there will be a NIB premium and in a year or 2 used MMRs will be well under $8k, but it's like any NIB purchase. If I wanted to wait a couple of years to save the cash I would.

Bob, if you absolutely love playing MM, go nuts. Buy one, because from reports I've heard, it will end up feeling the same. So here is your chance to buy one that plays brand new. HOWEVER, if you are concerned about the money or buying it as an investment, don't. They won't go up to the level that the original ones were at. That is a pin you buy because you want to play a lot of MM in your house. That is a rare opportunity. And they will make as many as they can sell of the standard one.

sorry, hiccup...

Can we just rename this site MMRside? K, thanks.

MMR was by far the most impressive pin at the TPF...I will buy one...when they start going up for sale from Pinsiders

I played both of the MMRs at TPF this year. I thought the standard played poorly but the LE played better than any MM I have ever played, original included. These are still pre production models so I'm sure the standard just needed adjusting.

The lamps are beautiful on the remake. I dislike that they're integral to the board. You'll have to send it in for a burnt bulb unless you're handy with the soldering iron. People who like to customize lighting will be disappointed.

In the end, I'm pretty sure it will be pretty close to the original. It's up to you to decide if it's worth the scratch. Personally, I think there are better Bally/Williams machines from that era that play better and are much cheaper than MM. I do love the theme, but original or remake, I feel like thes game should be in the 5.5-6.5K range.

Until They fall into that range, I'll be content to play it once or twice a year at the events I attend

I too always wanted one even before the hype (back in 2003 passed on one). I could have purchased a nice MM shopped for $4400. At that time my most expensive pin was a RS project I bought for $1500. If I had the money then to get it I would have and I do now so I will. Its not about cost form me.

I compare it to ACDC Prem I have. I roughly have 7k in it now and cant see selling it nor do I worry about them selling in them mid 5's now.

The LEDs are redundant meaning there are three leds per insert = one goes out other two actually increase output.
This is the understanding I got from watching one of the vids. In the home environment I cant see all three going out.

i don't think its resale value will totally nosedive after a few plays, but i don't think it will rise in value in the near-term either. i mean 20 years from now will it be a coveted, important machine? who knows, but unlike the original MM, very few of these are going to get routed, and very few are going to get trashed.

in the meantime, there will be enough new ones produced to meet demand that resale of used ones will not sell for the same (or more than) retail.

i'm in for MMRLE and it looks like a fantastic game, but it seems like a bad bet to me if you're hoping for it to rise in value.

I don't think it is unreasonable to think HUOs will hit 6500 in couple years. Everybody is going to own one. It's not going to be that cool anymore. It's going to get to the point where people walk into your game room, march right past your MM(R), and start checking out your Godzilla, Alvin G, or latest Stern instead. But don't get me wrong, I'd still buy one around 6000-6500 used, I love that castle

they are using industrial strength 50k-hour LEDs, and each insert is lit by 3 separate bulbs and wired so that if one goes out, the other two light brighter to compensate. i think burnt bulb problems are going to be pretty rare. but you're right, it is not as easy as swapping out a bayonet bulb.

It's a NIB game with a set price. If it's worth it, buy it, if not don't. Nobody wants to overpay for games, but if you need the value to go up or even maintain, maybe you should buy a cheaper game.

If you want the value of your pinball to go up, buy it rough and broken, spend a lot of time and a little money, put some hard work into it, and then sell it for profit.

Buy it and play it. If it's not for you after a while then sell/trade for another pin... like Hobbit! With a standard costing the same as an LE, you might have a small window to sell it in before the flood gates open.

I look at it kinda like Mustang.....no not Sterns Mustang....The Mustang.
69-70 versions were hot looking cars and the price of them started going nuts in the late 80's and really hit a peak late 90's early 2000. Ford saw the trend and made the 2005 body style almost just like the 1969 selling 100k a year for years 2005 to 2014. So will it go up in price - no cant see that happening. Will it be popular into the future - yes because it is what it is a great game.

Unless the original was a HEP, I would much rather a new MMR.

When I look at a Star Trek LE or AC/DC LE/Premium, 8K doesn't seem unreasonable for MMR.

Add a survey to this thread with a simple yes or no question.

For me, I laughed at them at auctions when they were going for $4500-$5k. For me, no, I'm not interesed in a pin designed 17 years ago that costs $8k.

I've always wanted one. So when the chance came to buy a nib one for 8k I jumped on it. Don't care if the price goes down I didn't buy it as a investment.

I would and will! $8k is where they will start NIB but I can see the price dropping 12 months into it if they continue to roll them off the assembly line by the thousands. That's when you could probably find a nice HUO for a bit cheaper. Just make sure you are buying it for the love of the game and not as an investment. MM is such a staple that you really can't go wrong no matter what you pay for it. (up too $8k of course.)

If you are even remotely concerned about the remake "holding it's value" I'd say dont do it.
You would be better off waiting for the MMRs to deliver, at which point the AFM remake will be announced and original AFM prices will tank (to the same extent that original MM prices have). Then you can pick up an original AFM for a song. AFM is a much better game, and one of the most fun pinballs ever, IMO.

-Riles

Good points about the lamp design fellas. That said, in my head, I can just see dollar signs floating by if anything goes wrong on those boards. I like the old Williams boards. They are easy enough to learn and repair yourself. Custom bulb set ups are not easily possible either. That's going to turn a lot of people off.

I didn't like the DMD on the MMR either. Not that it was bad, but a colorDMD is infinitely better looking. I think without the expense/effort of creating new boards and DMDs, they could have remade the old stuff and cut the cost of the machines significantly. That was all people were asking for in the first place.

Don't think I don't like the game, though. MM remains one of my favorite titles. I believe that the Remake was also done superbly. I still don't think it's worth 8K, though.

Yeah, I'm not interested in buying one but I have to say this point doesn't hold a ton of water. How many stern games in the last 5 years are worth more used than they were new?

Reality is... unless a game becomes the stuff of legend, a used game will sell for less than a new game. If anyone buys ANYTHING expecting to get every dollar back when they're done with it they need to take an economics course.

If i didn't already own the original i would. CC will be the next remake and I'll be in on that.

I think you're pretty much spot on. A couple variables though:

1. If the MMr is truly awesome, it will hold its value well. It will more than likely, however, have a MUCH bigger impact on the original MM market. A home-run for the MMr will put non-CQ MM originals into freefall. PInball PLAYERS (vs collectors) will flock to this version, even without the price delta.

2. If once into full production, the MMr develops WoZ-like design problems, all bets are off. THEN it will hinge on how quickly PPS can address or the old-timers will be crowing "told ya so"

I'm betting on #1.

Now how could you possibly know that? Are you Nostradamus? If you have an 1997 game with all remade parts then it's not original anyway regardless of what the serial number says.

If I had $8000 to spend It would be for STLE or the Hobbit

^^^ This! ^^^

There is someone that loves MM and all of a sudden had a chance to buy one brand new. If I had the chance to buy a NIB BSD for a reasonable price, I'd also jump on it. Not because of the investment, but just because I love playing the game. My ideal would be that this would be everyone that bought them. But I know a lot of people jumped in be a use they saw dollar signs. Buy them to play them.

Yes, and bought more than one.
It's a sure thing.

Same here. The reason I am buying it is because I love the game and NIB is without a doubt more reliable than a 17 year old game. I like to come home, turn on the game, and play without worrying about something going wrong. I also could care less if it decreases in value. Every game is doing that now anyway.

Most pinball machines don't hold their value and that trend will continue with so many more NIB options coming each year.

I'd been looking for a nice original or professionally restored MM for the last 3 years and couldn't find anything worth the asking prices ($12k-$18k), so when the MMr came along, I jumped on it while at Expo. Couldn't be happier with my decision to get a NIB MMr and save $4k to $10k. It's going to play like the original and the 'collectability' factor means nothing to me. I like 'collecting' $4k to $10k in my pocket better.

How do I know? Common sense… try it some time.

There will be 1000's of these all NIB or HUO. They will be easy to find and when you do it will be in primo, like new condition. Not like trying to find a primo original today. Also its a remake… when true collectors begin their search they start with one key factor which MMr will NEVER have. ORIGINALITY!

The MMr's at TPF were good looking games and look right at home with modern Sterns in the same price range. You might consider watching the prices of original MMs that need restoration (I have one). MMr may create new options for the restoration crowd to grab an original beater at a reasonable (or at least better) price and restore it yourself. For me, there's still a lot of fun to be had in the process of restoring an original game.

MMRLE will hold its value a little better than MMR, so at least try to snag one of those.

Still don't understand that train of thought but if you say so… once guys buy these whether its the LE or Standard most will mod them out in every way possible and no one will know a Standard from an LE.

Wood bottom cabinet instead of MDF.

The LE and the Standard - no difference in holding value over time. They are not really Limited. Both will not hold value and prices will do the standard drop after they are unboxed. As far as we know Rick will rerun MMRLE whenever he gets enough orders. No chance of holding value on these. But I am in of course

+1

Once every guy has banged the hot chick, she's not that hot anymore.

You say 'true collector' like unless someone is one they somehow can't enjoy owning and playing a pinball machine. Obviously, many people aren't 'true collectors' as PPS wouldn't have sold as many as they did. Most 'true collectors' overspend (IMO) to get a collector's piece and then fear playing them. I'll put the money I saved buying MMr over an expensive original/restoration and buy the next Stern I like or maybe TH.

The display on MMr is already in color, and has a larger color pallet.

Rick already said that a software update will enable this feature.

Here is the boot up screen:

MMr Color Display.jpg

Dude, it's pinball. No one cares about originality. This isn't like buying a one of a kind Luger or a 67 Camaro that sat in a garage for 40 years before being discovered. People play these games and now that the industry is somewhat healthy again the majority of people could give two shits about their pinball machines being collectable items. That all ended when 5-6 more players entered the game. Enjoy your "collectable" pinball machines as they continue to go down in value.

If you love MM and the money is not an issue I would get it.

The best advice I could give would be to wait. Plenty of these will be available and you could get a HUO for less or maybe less from a distro in the future. I played them at TPF. The "LE" had issues with the castle lock, destroy sequence (the sequence looked off and one tower stopped collapsing), and both had flipper strength issues. I have no doubt that these issues will be addressed, but the new pinball manufactures typically have issues...I'm sure I would be on huge verge of insanity if I started a pinball company and started building games. The bottom line is that no one really knows how these will hold up over time. However, most things can be fixed, so if you have to get one right away you may have to deal with a slightly higher price and some early adopter issues. If that doesn't bother you then get it.

"Common sense… try it some time."

I don't agree. They sell for the same price, so there's your starting point. Just for argument's sake, say a used one is worth $1000 less. If you could buy an LE with the extra goodies for $7k or a standard for $7k which are you gonna do? LE every time. So the standards will feel price pressure to sell for lower, it's pretty inevitable IMHO.

There are only a couple of machines in my collection that were gotta haves. The rest were just machines of opportunity.

I have definitely purchased machines to fix up and play. Often resulting in a positive net equity.

That being said, I can't really say I purchased any of my machines as a long term investment hoping they will go up in value each year.

I just hope ( except for NIB) that I paid fair market value for my machines and that if/when it come time to sell I can get close to what I paid for them.

To think that a second printing of anything will go up in value is absurd. Buy the MM remake to enjoy if that is your thing. With that rationale, you can't go wrong no matter what happens to the secondary market.

Ah, I was unaware if this. The guys displaying it told me that it would be mono color only with 6 colors to choose from and that a full color option was being discussed for later.

You're both right. Only the boot up screen looks like that, the dots are mono for now.