Would I do it again - yes, in fact I am doing it agin with TH. Would it have been easier with hindsight of every twist and turn in its development - sure. But I didn't have that luxury with any of my other pins so guess it is not fair to have expected it for WOZ.

It is easy to second guess your actions and rationalize, "if I had waited for this or that to happen, I could have maximized my purchase or minimized my downtime". But It was an opportunity to get in on the ground floor of a new company making a classic family-themed pin, and the experience was fantastic!

I'm glad I pre-ordered, mainly because had I not, I wouldn't have the money to buy the machine today. And after finally getting the machine, I'm very impressed with it.

Generally-speaking, I am against the "pre-order business model". I did it with JJP because he demonstrated that he had the resources and means to make it happen and made public who is entire team was and they clearly had the experience and competence to do it, so it was much less risky IMO than the other people making games today.

That being said, I would not pre-order another game. I can't do it in good conscience. I've seen what this model is doing to Stern (causing many games to have sub-standard code) and I don't like what it's doing to the pinball community. The whole pre-order model also tends to perpetuate "pinball tribes" or groups of people who are compelled to unconditionally applaud "their team" in order to protect their investment. In many cases, it's hard to now get good, objective analysis of new games because there are so many warring factions of fans who can't afford to have the game they've paid for, but not gotten yet, to be harshly criticized.

Mine has been down more than that with still no hope that problems are being solved. I'm getting close to "fire selling" it so it gets moved out of my way.

markmon if jjp said i will give you a new one - give me your old one and 1k - would you do something like that - seems like it could be a win for both parties as he gets the game back and see why there were so many problems.

then resell it as a used one.

you get a new one that won't have the problems - and you would then feel so good about how you were treated that it would lead to you buying more of his games - or maybe others would be impressed and not be worried about buying new games

could be a win for both parties - then again both parties could say it a stupid idea that they would never entertain.

okay i guess i am bored at work to come up with this stuff

thanks ed

I am not interested in paying $1000 to get a new woz when my original woz barely has 150 plays since its down so much. But given no option and that option, I'd take it. I would demand refund for my paid in full hobbit to pay my end of the fees.

Why should any customer have to pay an exta $1k to get a working product? Sorry, I don't understand that logic at all.

2nd on not understanding the above logic. Didn't game come with a warranty? What does the warranty cover?

It does not make any sense to me either.

Huh?

Glutton for punishment are you?

I'm not surprised your liking the game more. I have disliked many games at first and started liking them the more I play them. It is interesting to see you go from not likeing the game to be willing to spend $6,500.

I hope you get one.

Dibs, I'll take it.

I'm selling my standard for $7,300 (includes invisiglass) if you're interested. Mine is NIB with new light boards, should have it any month now.

With a couple of the companies mouth pieces on here I am surprised no one contacted you and made arrangements to send you whats needed to get the game running 100% ????

They have to be aware of your problems since you posted them publicly.

Its new & under warranty and they should make it right , if not a refund is a reasonable request.

Actually I believe a couple of the mouth pieces have been in contact and trying to do their best to help.

LTG : )
Disclaimer : Head Mouth Piece

Any month now?

That's quite an ETA lol

Just giving you a hard time. Anyone with a Beastie Boys name is good people.

I hope you have your game by "Memorial Day" sir

The current way "the company" handles it is by sending out replacement boards for ones that died. The fact that the boards, including the new ones, die every single game, seems to not matter. So I have a few dead boards. I can get them replaced, install the new ones, and in the first game I play more led boards will be dead. I have asked for a complete replacement power supply and whatever is needed for this to be fixed and keep working, but apparently that requires me to track down Jack. So far it's been a somewhat unpleasant and frustrating experience. Both Alex and LTG are probably reading this post but I believe neither are empowered to do what's needed to fix my lemon permanently. Waiting to see how this plays out before making a much larger public fuss.

You have had 7v boards that were sent out fail? You would be the first instance of that. I can't obviously authorize (neither can Lloyd) a swap of every light board if it's not broken. That is a jack thing but you can just email him. He will respond.

Disclaimer: since we are just "mouthpieces", maybe we should stop doing public support and work 9-5 like other companies. Have a problem with your game Friday at 5:01 and you have a party that weekend? We open on Monday...

Nope. Not going to happen.

He's back Again, a joke as usual.......

Why don't you just "unload it"? You are the biggest whiner/complainer nitpicking yahoo I have ever seen!

Nobody has your issues.........nobody, so get rid of it and quit bitching about it non stop. Aren't you the "light man" after all?

Wtf.........

I have never seen a bigger PITA than you, you seem to be the only one that can't get issues fixed with all the help provided. Seriously, what is wrong?

Well, let's put Cal in that category, yep he's worse......

_{Post edited by robin : Ban vote issued, please re-read the forum rules.}

Ice stop being so dramatic.

You knew a thread like this on a non JJP moderated forum would have content not suitable for your sensitive feelings.

Good thing for you Curly, you don't need any more ban votes!

Probably doesn't unload it because it has the potential to be a great game. Now that being said if it the game doesn't work and it sits like a brick without JJP doing whatever it takes at this point to get it working I'd be pissed as hell. There are obviously issues with some games and JJP should have it as a priority, and I have personally found them to be very quick in responding to any issue I have, to getting these games working. If this was a WPC that most guys could fix on their own it would be one thing but in the case of WOZ JJP is the only person that has these parts available to make the games work and they send them out one at a time when a full overhaul may be needed.
I have no doubt these games will become 100% reliable but I don't blame anyone for being extremely frustrated with not having a brand new 100% working game.

I'd be after the firesale price.

Exactly, I'd be pissed and frustrated too, but what about JJP have you or anybody else ever experienced that they aren't about fixing every issue ASAP! If you can't get it resolved with those guys you have no shot. Cash it in and unload it. It's non stop BS from a guy that knows what needs to happen. Lives to be an annoying pita?

WTF.............................Make your "public fuss", man, get over yourself......

I wish you could have traded spots in the queue with somebody like me that has been waiting a long time, but even a one spot bump is an improvement. Thanks

I think the issue with the 5v is a bit of a mess. They obviously don't want to swap out every 5v board and power supply but doing it one at a time is pointless if another blows immediately after. If JJP is sending these to markmon via UPS and not overnighted it takes a week to get there just to blow another? That's crazy. If you lose 4 boards in his case you have a brick for a month. Any other game it may not be a big deal but WOZs rules are obviously completely based around the RGB LEDs. I've lost 4 or 5 boards myself and am thankful I am only in the mid-Atlantic.

While this may have been sparked by Markmons comments it is certainly a situation that others have dealt with. The rest of how JJP is dealing with issues I think is great but the 5v board thing is the issue IMO.

If you're super concerned about these boards, just send jack $1000 and buy a new set of 7V boards. Thats what I would do.

I feel bad for you guys that got the 5v boards, I was lucky to be in the early October group that got the updated boards..........I don't see anybody else whining to level of this guy, yes it would piss me off too but hey either adapt or get out and I feel that he's being overly dramatic......being the "light guy" himself.......him and his buddy came up with the GI lighting after all, which I bought.......the only guy that can't seem to fix it?

I'm not responding to his specific situation but the problem his game and others seem to be having.

Just an observation, regarding several of the recent WOZ for sale threads, the elephant in the room has very often been that those games were the 5V LED board games. Some people are either more capable or more willing to troubleshoot through the problems and some have been fortunate to have greater reliability. Hopefully everybody will have theirs sorted out and working reliably in the next few months.

Current price is up to $8k without the upgraded glass, so I'm selling a NIB game for $1k less than any distributors are. FYI - I don't think anybody is going to give their game away. I'm willing to part ways with mine for exactly what I have in it. Seems pretty fair.....

Agreed about the 5v issue overall, I would not be happy about it at all despite the ability to now bypass the bad board pending arrival of the new one.

The guys coming later will get the benefit of code updates and fixes.

Still, its a great and fun pin! I really hope everyone that has one coming gets its asap.....

The offer was mainly for markmon who had the lemon WOZ

So you are saying that both Markmon and Alphajerk3000 are lying about their WOZ being down for more than 48 days?

Is that what you consider JJP being about "fixing every issue ASAP!"?

Kind of funny how TaylorVA comes in as the calm voice of reason, and you agree with him, yet call out the guy who is actually having the problem a PITA, even when Taylor agrees that he'd be upset about it too, and that it has been an issue.

Don't feel too bad. I have 5v in my game and it's fine. Granted, board 15 which seems to be a common point of failure was replaced with a 7v board but that's it. One board replaced one time and all is well. I'm not the only one but as with anything else, those with a problem speak louder than those without. I feel comfortable that should the other boards freak out - Jack and I will be able to work it out.

The light boards are proprietary and not available form any other source.

There is a difference in someone designing and building something (WOZ GI Kit) from off the shelf parts Vs a machine with parts only available from one source. It being a new machine under warranty I don't think anyone should have to get under the hood multiple times to fix a known problem or waiting until the next board dies & repeat.
If you happen to have a game with 5V boards they were all replaced for a reason.

Buying a used game or even a new spot for one IF the warranty does not go with it is a serious consideration for a potential buyer. With no other source for parts and limited service knowledge it does not help re-sale value.

Markmon says he is having issues with his machine and has been pretty consistent about the details.
Not much "over dramatic" stuff except some replies.

yes I am......but lets make sure you, Cal and Jimmy weigh in with no clue.....

I've tasted the cool-aid... and I like it! I didn't mind the wait. I enjoyed the game since I rec'vd it. Heck, I waited the same time for BBB with less communication and a lot more risk, in my opinion.

I would do it over, in fact, I'm in on the Hobbit as well. My hat's off to Jesrsy Jack and team. They have brought a lot of fresh ideas & technologically to our hobby.

I have also purchased many Stern titles such as recent NIB AC/DC prem & NIB METLE. I feel Stern has shot themselves in the foot without the communication with code updates and repair items, to us buyers. Unlike Jersey Jack, who has been open to communicate on forums like this and his own WOZ forum.

Yes... I would certainly do it again.

Thanks for asking!

Most games won't lose a board.

Some may lose a board or two. Put in the redesigned ones and that is usually the end of it.

Some have lost more boards, and again new boards usually cure it.

And Jack is extending the warranty on them. And their engineers are looking into it still.

Markmon's game is about the worst case scenario, and we are working to resolve it so he can enjoy his game.

LTG : )

Thank you Lloyd, please spare us all from the agony of defeat, it's a given that Mark's pin will be fixed to a reasonable person's satisfaction. JJP goes above and beyond to make things right and the customer service is awesome and appreciated.

Early buyers funded those that got it before them and funded future games.
This cycle just may work in the long run if games quality control rises.

I don't know if 8/16 is considered an early owner or not. If it is I would still have bought the game despite the board and shaker motor issues I've experienced. While I get frustrated about some of the board failures Lloyd, Ken, Sal and others at JJP have been great in getting me replacement boards when needed. While I would have preferred to to have had the problems I understand this is a first generation game from a new/start up company. I realized there were going to be a certain amount of issues.

Despite the outages my family has really enjoyed the game and being able to watch the rules progress. I haven't worked on a pinball machine previously but am learning as it is impractical for me to get a Tech out with each failure.

I may feel differently if JJP wasn't addressing the issues and going out of their way to be helpful.

From my perspective as tech support.

I started mid May.

From when I was at the Factory in June, to now. Production has at least doubled if not more. Yet tech support continues to decrease.

So quality control has gone up.

LTG : )

I got in early - third day. I bit because of Jack's reputation and because of the easy pay plan coupled with your money back anytime.

I sure didn't like having to wait for the machine for such a long period.

The build quality is outstanding and is not comparable to machines of the past or currently produced by other companies.

The PC based design a bit scary to me as I fear technological obsolescence of the PC hardware.

I had one LED board go out, the first one in the chain, making for a completely dark playfield until the replacement board arrived. It is the future with the use of these LED boards because of economics and flexibility of the lighting providing the multi-color options and variable intensity. While the LED boards were a stumble at first, I hope the new design provides reliability that is required. I believe you will see this LED design approach everywhere in pins in the future, not just with JJ.

Bottom line here is that if I knew in advance it would be a little over two years before delivery, I would still buy in.

I believe that LTG is indicating that problems are decreasing requiring less tech support.

Fear not about the PC components. We thought of that. They are standard x86_64 bit motherboard/processor. There isn't going to be any issues getting 64bit parts for decades as we can't possibly use up the 64bit address space with the current way components work. Maybe 30 years from now it will be an issue but I'll worry about that then.

I think he is more upset that he was told to spend his time and track down jack instead of having it internally escalated, like how a regular customer support issue would be handled. There was no knock on you or lloyd, only notation that it was said you guys aren't the ones for this, and that is obviously fine. Biggest stink here is not having anyone just escalate it to Jack/whoever it needs to go to get fixed. Like any customer support experience it really isn't ideal to tell a customer "You'll need to track down the owner for that". You say, "Oh, I'm really sorry you have spent that much time on this. Let me take some notes and get in touch with the owner since he can directly solve this and I will get back to you".

If I owned that specific WoZ I'd be raising massive amounts of hell at this point. The fact he has 20 other games helps make it not a primary focus really so lucky for JJP on that end. Anyone who dropped 7k on a pinball and can't get it working would be in their right to raise a stink after months of downtime. Every time I go out there it is broken. Every show we brought it to it has broken. Constantly broken.

It's already been escalated.

I think you should have said the need for tech support continues to decrease...I know that's what you meant

Ken
Www.pinballrebel.com