(Topic ID: 215074)

Crispy coil question

By spinal

6 years ago


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  • 17 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Inkochnito
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#1 6 years ago

I found a coil on my Abra Ca Dabra that looks toasted so I checked resistance and it's within a couple ohms so OK in that way.

My question is, under what circumstances can a coil be bad and yet still have the correct resistance? What causes this? I expected it to be shorted out with lower resistance.

In any case, I'm guessing I should replace right? Can I use it temporarily while I fix other things or should I not even try that?

(Thanks for your help)

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#2 6 years ago

Locked on and got crispy. Doesn't always mean the coil is shot. Especially if what locked it on is working now.

LTG : )

#3 6 years ago

You say within a couple of ohms, but some coils can be only a couple ohms. What's it supposed to be?

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

You say within a couple of ohms, but some coils can be only a couple ohms. What's it supposed to be?

replace

#5 6 years ago

The only 9736 in your Abra Ca Dabra is the Hold (R) relay coil. It's not unusual for Hold relay coils to look burned. Does it work correctly? if not, you can probably just unsolder one side of the coil and wedge the plate in activated position with cardboard or similar. If you do that, test to see if the tilt still works.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

The only 9736 in your Abra Ca Dabra is the Hold (R) relay coil. It's not unusual for Hold relay coils to look burned.

A 9736 coil has a resistance of about 24 ohms according to online references (like this one https://www.flippers.com/coil-resistance.html). As a Hold relay that's constantly on it draws more than an amp of current (25V/24ohms) and dissipates 26+ watts of power (current*voltage) or about what a small soldering iron might use. Actual values are probably higher since line voltage and all the other voltages are a little higher than shown on the schematic.

So while your plastic frame and paper wrapper have gotten a little toasted (literally) I'd be surprised if the coil itself isn't fine. A new coil will likely get just as hot, although it probably won't toast under home use.

/Mark

#7 6 years ago

Like others have said: a crispy coil might look bad, but will still do the job if its resistance checks out. That said, here are two practical concerns:

(1) The nylon base becomes brittle and is prone to snapping apart when handled. I definitely replace the entire coil when that happens.

(2) The label will crumble when handled. If it’s intact, I try to avoid touching it at all. When it starts falling apart, however, I completely remove the old label and re-wrap it with new paper. It’s just a cosmetic thing, that’s all.

#8 6 years ago

Thanks everyone for your replies.

Resistance is 23.9 ohms and I have it should be 24.4 or 25 so this is in normal range.

Currently have bottom board out will check how it's working when I put back together but I'm guessing it will work. I will order a new one from Steve when I place my next order but just trying to get ACD working for first time so will march onwards and assume it's OK for now.

Paper disintegrated in my hand unfortunately - do you order these papers from Steve or print out yourselves? (Or did you mean just blank paper?) Is the paper safer somehow than having completely exposed?

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

Paper disintegrated in my hand unfortunately - do you order these papers from Steve or print out yourselves? (Or did you mean just blank paper?) Is the paper safer somehow than having completely exposed?

The label doesn’t do much other than identify the coil, should you need a replacement. Gottlieb color-coded some labels for ease of identification, but I think the hold relay is just white.

I use whatever blank piece of paper I can find. Cut to fit with a scissors, then dab the edge with glue to keep it in place. Again, not a big deal. You can leave the coil naked if it it doesn’t bother you.

#10 6 years ago

OK will do - thanks again leckmeck!

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

you can probably just unsolder one side of the coil and wedge the plate in activated position with cardboard or similar. If you do that, test to see if the tilt still works.

Hi Howard. If I did wedge R to activated position, wouldn't tilt not work anymore? My understanding is tilt works by deactivating R.

#12 6 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

... If you do that, test to see if the tilt still works.

Quoted from spinal:

Hi Howard. If I did wedge R to activated position, wouldn't tilt not work anymore? My understanding is tilt works by deactivating R.

Hi Spinal, Probably, that's why I suggested you test it. I decided long ago that I'm not always smart enough to predict with 100% accuracy how machines will work, so if you're smarter than that or have the $$$, no need to test what I suggest. To each his own!!!

#13 6 years ago

OK, I understand now what you meant - thanks I will try it. I'm learning very slowly how these things work - hopefully in 10 years I'll know what's going on

#14 6 years ago

Hi spinal +
modern Gottlieb EM-Four-Player-Pins usually have two kinds of "Tilt" --- one is the (mild) "shaking the pin too much results in loss of ball in play" - the other is the (severe) "all kind of trying to cheat - banging on the machine makes the pin to (kind of) toggle-off the main-power-switch and toggling-on again --- all players loose all remaining balls --- starting for a new game is needed". The "mild" Tilt makes the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay to quit-pulling until the pin changes to next ball / next player. The "severe" Tilt makes the R-Hold-Relay to quit pulling --- we then must start a new game so the R-Relay is made pulling (again).

The "Abra ca Dabra" has no H-Tilt-Hold-Relay - it only has the R-Hold-Relay --- so Abra ca Dabra only has the "severe" Tilt.
When You wedge the R-Hold-Relay into activated position: You do not have the Tilt-Functionality. AND You may have problems --- You are playing and in play You toggle-off the main-power-switch - means You have "1,2,3,4,5 ball in play": You toggle-on (again) the main-power-switch and You cannot start a game by using the Replay-Button (But You can start a game by throwing-in a coin worth "One coin - one play started". To avoid this problem: Wedge the R-Hold-Relay into activated position - AND make its switch with wire-color-BL-WH, wire-color-OR-WH ALWAYS closed. THEN make an good description on what You have done to the pin.

(The written above is my interpretation on "Switch on Ball Count Unit / Switch on R-Relay --- shown in the schematics at 'E-14' ") Greetings Rolf

#15 6 years ago

Always look forward to your detailed posts Rolf thanks!

#16 6 years ago

Hi spinal
The "Switch on Ball Count Unit / Switch on R-Relay --- shown in the schematics at 'E-14' ": When You wedge the R-Hold-Relay into activated position You then may manipulate the Switch on Ball Count Unit to be always closed (wrap a bare / naked short wire around the two solder-lugs of the switch). Pins in the arcade-rooms at the time had to be fool-proof - nowadays we own the pins and do not crazy things like pushing the Replay-Button randomly.

I agree with HowardR on "not having the pin - looking at the schematics --- impossible to predict 'everything' with 100% accuracy".

I do not recommend it - we could use modern Relays that do not get hot --- see
https://gfinder.findernet.com/public/attachments/40/EN/S40EN.pdf : First page shows 40.52 Relay , also page-2 (I own several such color-orange 40.52 relays - various voltages) - we can buy AC-Voltage 6, 12, 24, 48, 60, 110, 120, 230, 240 --- on page-4 we see 40.52.8.024.0000 is the relay for 24VAC (50 and 60 Hertz) --- little problem: Such Relays only have TWO switches - two Make-and-Brake-Switches.
To make an replacement of Your R-Relay (five switches): You'd have to mount three "Finder 40.52 relays" parallel. Finder is an Italian company --- in the USA You have http://www.ia.omron.com/products/category/relays/ . Greetings Rolf

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

Thanks everyone for your replies.
Resistance is 23.9 ohms and I have it should be 24.4 or 25 so this is in normal range.
Currently have bottom board out will check how it's working when I put back together but I'm guessing it will work. I will order a new one from Steve when I place my next order but just trying to get ACD working for first time so will march onwards and assume it's OK for now.
Paper disintegrated in my hand unfortunately - do you order these papers from Steve or print out yourselves? (Or did you mean just blank paper?) Is the paper safer somehow than having completely exposed?

The wrapper should be white.
Here is a reproduction file: http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/Wrappers/Coil_Gottlieb_A-9736.pdf

Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

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