(Topic ID: 349460)

LED Question

By budfrog80

3 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 50 days ago by budfrog80
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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Linked Games

#1 3 months ago

Hey Guys. Just finished up an Eight Ball and have a weird question about some lighting. I initially replaced all of the lighting with LEDs but quickly found out this wasn’t ideal and now have gone with GI only. The “3 alley” light at the top only works with an LED, not incandescent. Voltage across the lamp socket measures 5.5V without a bulb. I have tried multiple known working incandescent bulbs with the same result. New lamp driver board. All of the other inserts work without any issue. What am I missing?

#2 3 months ago

This is pretty strange, but the SCR's on the lamp driver board (and Aux Lamp Driver board) can partially fail.

In my experience, all of these will measure very similar to the similar SCR's around them. You take the lamp driver board out and use a meter, check all the ways that the SCR can be tested... Red lead on pin 1, black lead on 2, then 3, then reverse, black lead on pin 1, red lead on 2, then 3... etc. All the SCR's will test very similar. Any variation in the suspect SCR is an indication that you need to replace that part.

After that, you need to check the common wiring to your lamps (frequently the glob of solder connecting to the metal tab won't be making good enough electrical connection for current).

After that, replace the socket.

Let us know what you find.

#3 3 months ago

I'm thinking bad socket. LEDs need less voltage to work so a flaky socket might light up with an LED but barely with an incandescent. Easy test, ground the tab of the socket. If the bulb lights fully it's a board or wire problem. If not, it's a bad socket.

#4 3 months ago

+1 for bad sockets. Bally light sockets suck. The SCRs are only for the controlled lights

1 month later
#5 71 days ago

So I have replaced the lamp socket with the exact same result. If I ground the socket, an incandescent bulb works. Voltage still measuring 5.5v with no bulb. Barely any voltage with a known working incandescent bulb (~20 mV). I feel like this has to be the wiring or the lamp socket but I have now replaced both. I am stumped. Anyone have additional thoughts?

#6 71 days ago

Off the wall thought - inability to provide enough current. Follow your wire back toward the source - you’re looking for a partially broken wire - one held on by a few strands. With no current flow, you would read full voltage, but under load, the conductor just can’t provide what’s needed. Since you already replaced the socket, it’s doubtful the issue is right there.

#7 71 days ago

Good idea. Thanks for the help. I will keep you posted.

#8 69 days ago

Feature lamp voltage should measure 6.3v. If you are only measuring 5.5 then you have a bad connection. What does the switched voltage measure at the other working lamps?

1 week later
#9 58 days ago

The switched voltage at the other incandescent lamps all measure about 4.9V. The socket in question measures zero voltage with a known working incandescent bulb in place and not lighting. Measures about 5V with no bulb in place.

I have now replaced the socket, the wire between #2 and #3 controlled lamps. The additional controlled lamps wired in series #4-12 light incandescent bulbs without an issue. The #3 lamp socket appears to be getting the same voltage and current as the other lamps but will only light the LED, not the incandescent.

I am very confused. Nothing seems to add up. Any ideas what I am missing?

#10 57 days ago

Anyone have additional thoughts?

#11 57 days ago

Given all the information I'd say you have a sneak short somewhere. Isolate all the connections and duplicate with jumpers to a bulb socket see if you still get it not lightning.

Completely replace the wire from the switched side of the socket up to the connector as well. The connection is probably busted in the harness this happens sometimes if someone cuts off a wire tie and nicks the wire. Given your symptoms that seems like what it is since the LED works and of course requires FAR less current than a bulb does.

#12 57 days ago

Thanks for your help.

I replaced the wire (yellow/black) from the #3 to the connector J3 on the lamp driver board with no change. I resoldered the lamp socket #1 with the teal power supply. No change. I replaced the connector for the power supply (teal) on the rectifier board. No change.

I switched a known working bulb from #1 and #2 lamp socket to #3 just to make sure. No change but now when I replace the incandescent bulbs #1/2 they do not light. If I ground the lamps #1/2/3 they all work. All work with LEDs. So weird. Board issue?

I switched the Alltek board for the original lamp driver board and all incandescent bulbs in all lanes work - no issues. Do I have to replace the Alltek board? Pretty new. Purchased in 2021. I am now assuming this must be an issue within the board.

I would love to hear anyone’s thoughts. Thanks.

#13 57 days ago

If it works fine with one board and not the other it's the board....

#14 57 days ago

Try the SCR test discussed above?

1 week later
#15 50 days ago

So I sent the board back to Dave at Alltek who tested it and found three bad SCRs. He just sent a new board - super quick, very responsive and great service. Plugged the board in and everything works except the one controlled lamp in the #3 lane. Back where I started. What else could I be missing?

New board, new socket, resoldered all wiring, new crimped terminal, ran an entire new wire from the lamp socket to the board - all with no change. I can still ground the lamp socket and the bulb works. I feel like this has to be something very unusual.

Any thoughts at this point are appreciated. Thanks.

#16 50 days ago

Uggghhhhh……..I figured it out. Loose crimp on the yellow and black wire . So easy, yet so hard. Thanks guys.

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