I really think in todays market if you just sold a game for around 6k that was a fan layout with a couple plastics ramps, typical orbits, a spinner or two, maybe some cheap newton ball targets, and a bash toy sculpt up the middle that shakes when hit...you could have a viable product, if and only if, a good license was attached. I really don't think you'd even need the LCD either. Just decent audio and a decent art package.

Something like Spooky's Dominos or Jetsons, but with a better build quality and a little more on the code side.

The real appeal of non licensed theme IMO is you get artistic freedom to really do something fun and interesting. Not being limited or forced to do anything by the licensor.

So what I’d expect would be an EDGY exciting and fun art package. Better than what a licensed pin would have and certainly have more fun, sex appeal and general shenanigans and fun in the art.

Playfield and layout: I totally would be accepting of a “simpler” layout, but again you can do more fun things. Or even just copy paste a fan fav layout which people would be excited to see again.

But what AP is doing is completely… off.
Nonsensical and just not appealing, not to me anyway, maybe I’m not the targeted demographic for their pins. I’m In my 40’s and I like to buy fun, exciting and edgy pinball machines.

and if they're going for the "family friendly" market, Spooky eats their lunch with games like Scooby Doo and Looney Tunes or JJP with Toy Story 4 and WOZ

Anyone actually played it yet? Speculation is one thing vesus actual gameplay.

Talk about sparse, TNA anyone?

I was out until I saw the price. I just assumed it was 7500 or more so I almost didn't even bother looking.

Any game at 7k is officially a maybe for me. It better wow me though. It will have a used price of 6k in no time. If I'm floored, I'll buy it. If I like it but I'm not floored, I'll wait for a price reduction or a used one. If I liked it and it was 6k, I'd buy one for sure, used or NIB.

I like the display in the playfield. I'd LOVE if games reduced the backbox display and added a playfield display. I don't look up when I play, and I miss all the cool graphics and information. I love that AP is adding that to at least this title.

I agree and would have probably have been a day one buyer if the theme was more like “Pig Burger”.
“ everybody wants some! “

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If it could be done for 6k someone would do it.

Pulp fiction fits that mold and has with no ramps for 8k and plenty of licensed 7k Stern pros out there to fit the bill.. and people still say Stern is cheap. Can’t win.

Credit due to AP offering full RGB, two lcds, three bank drop, real apron, ramps, spinners, side blades and rails for competitive 7k.

Pulp Fiction is full of expensive drop target mechs, physical ball locks, multiple sculpts and an animated briefcase. There is nothing cheap about it. They also give you stuff like a "real apron" and a fancy coin door and mirrored backglass.

Never said it was and it’s 8k.
You had mentioned games with no lcd, that is latest example is all.
AP game is competing more in line with price point of Stern pro. Bottom line people don’t want OG theme.

And let's not forget Stern does make a pinball machine for home collectors for 4.5k. It isn't built to commercial standards in terms of the cabinet and some other details, but you can absolutely strip a game down more and put a good license on it with code that would be enjoyable for all casual players and most average skilled players.

I mean sure it is priced closely to a Stern Pro. But you get more with a Stern Pro... like a theme people actually want

They’re not tho. Not even coming close.

In product, or price/value

Agree on the playfield display. There’s a lot that can be done with a little imagination.

I’d like to have it display relevant info but also graphically morph/blend in with the playfield artwork when nothing is displayed. I’d like the screen to be unobtrusive as possible.

Alpha displays in the back box are fine.

Well people recently paid 9k+ for TNA CE remake.
You just never know what the folks might want or how they perceive real value!

Good gameplay.

Or just do the Heighway thing and mirror the backglass and playfield screen. Seems like extra work to do them differently.

The backbox LCD is mostly to entertain people not-playing the game.

Ok so how does this AP game play?
Maybe it’s just ok, IDK.
Interested

Exactly. The threads are speculative until we see some reviews.

My takeaway on these BBQ threads is the average NIB buyer in 2024 basically only cares about theme and toys. BBQ has neither, so they're ripping it to shreds.

This also means the average NIB buyer in 2024 has no clue what makes for a good pinball machine.

LMAO

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Yep. It's the average NIB buyer's fault that AP keeps releasing bizarre and unsellable games.

Be better, 2024 average NIB buyers!

Honestly, there are so many rumors flying around for amazing games in 2024, it will be hard to choose which to purchase.

What have you heard? I heard Alice in Wonderland from Dutch?

AP’s problem is, the bar is set too low
Seems everything gets approved.

And their prices are set too high for that Low Low set bar.

I’d say they’re competing with Stern home pins with pins set at twice the price.

Just my 2 cents as a pinhead and pinball costumer

Do you want a chance to be 'in' with the very first LE? Here's your chance:

https://projectpinball.rallyup.com/barry-o-barbecue-challenge-pinball-machine-raffle/Campaign/Details

I'm out (not that it matters) because I will probably never buy a NIB game anyway.

Still expensive (to me, not saying it's not worth it).

Chris

The game aesthetically looks terrible. The gameplay looks boring and SLOW. It does nothing that excites me. At least its only 7k, but for 7k I'd buy a Stern pro all day every day over this. Easy out for me.

Out, but I wasn't really in. Haven't bought a nib for a few years.
My latest nib buys are DI, ACNC and IMDN.

I do love my DI. An unlicensed theme is not an issue.
Love the flow and mechs. Although on that machine the storyline is a weak point.

A bbq theme combined somehow with hotrods and Barry O? Not something I would spend money on, no matter how well implemented. I don't understand how someone approved that theme and think it can sell well.

To honor Barry I have my BSD of which he autographed the backglass. I don't need to buy a new game with his name on.

It was at Zapcon here in Arizona

And?

I'm putting money on Ninja Eclipse selling 100 machines before this BBQ mess does....Anyone want to put a $5 wager on it?

No way

Nope.

Nope, I'm with you. Ninja Eclipse looks way better than BBQ

This... or dead pool?
This.... or rush?
This.... or foo fighters?

Pretty darn easy choice

People always love the idea of boutique pinball slaying the big boys (Stern) more than they actually love the boutique pinballs.

So yeah, everybody is all hyped up about this and psyched about the original theme and look it's $5 cheaper than a Stern pro...but much like AP's offerings, nobody is actually going to actually buy one.

Appears Ninja Eclipse is the dark horse “take my money now” original theme winner!

Considering the fact that we're talking about deeproot 2.0 here, "take my money" might be more literal than you intended.

Oh wait, what am I saying?? There are words on their website stating that they won't steal your money. Never mind!

I don't know why AP doesn't listen to your advice about original themes. We don't want them unless maybe a young person has some cool new ideas, but not original themes from 60-70 year olds.

I've seen some Stern 2 HUO, even an Elwin, for $5400 on the pre-owned market.

I couldn’t go lol. I had family in town

Maybe someone will bring one to the G.S.P.F.at Lodi??

How to make small fortune in the pinball industry? . . . Start with a large fortune.

I really wanted AP to succeed and even purchased Houdini after meeting Josh at a show. But no theme nor game play has grabbed me since. I’ve played them once or twice on location, but no desire to repeat.

As an operator theme is huge for earnings. People will drop money in a box of lights that says Star Wars, jurrasic park, etc. This will have people scratching their heads. JJp with Dialed In and Stern with Black Knight (Gary told me never again) have already shown that these unlicensed themes just don’t earn or sell well anymore (beyond the well known classics).

As an operator this would be hard pass. As a collector, I might buy a used one for like $5k if it plays well.

Let's not go quite that far. Sure Turner was involved in some of the DeepRoot efforts and bought a lot of assets, but he has already showed that he is different in some aspects.

He has actually produced a working machine.
He has taken some very harsh criticisms (which were deserved) and he listened and revamped the product significantly based on that.
He seems to be way more transparent and humble.

With that said, am I plunking down 1K for the hope of getting one, nope. But I also wouldn't put him in the same bucket as Robert. Not at this time anyway.

Based on visuals and layouts, the Ninja game looks way better than the BBQ in my opinion. I guess time will tell if this is truly different or more of the same.

I like Chris and am looking forward to probably meeting him tomorrow for the first time in person and getting to try out his game. In our every interaction, he has come across as the anti Robert Mueller. Of course, he'd never say this himself because he doesn't speak poorly of others, even if warranted.

Does this mean he'll be successful in pinball and that Turner Pinball will be the next spooky? Absolutely not. Will he sell 100 games or even ten? No idea.

But at first glance, Ninja Eclipse looks like it's got more going for it than BBQ bonanza. And I for sure have more confidence in Turner than the guy running the show at AP (though of course AP has so many more resources; if only they could be better utilized).

So I'm rooting for Chris and his team even though I'm not in the market for this game or any other. And if they are able to get things going, it will be another positive (there have been a few) to come out of the big negative that unfortunately was deeproot.

I've really enjoyed past Barry Oursler games so I'm certainly interested in playing this, however to me original themes are sold as a package of theme concept, art work, sound, and gameplay, and to me this is definitely missing in the theme concept and art department, neither hit with me at all. The other issue for me is that I buy most of my games for location and I really don't see this one catching much interest on location. If the game ends up being great and I can get one used for a good price I'd consider it, but new in box very unlikely.

A family of four walks into a place and they have a BBQ and a Ninja pinball.

What machine earns more?

The claw machine.

Claw machines are passe’.

Cool kids play Cut To Win.

Karl is streaming this on iepinball channel right now:

https://www.twitch.tv/iepinball

Yikes, game does not look good.