(Topic ID: 341674)

Bally Saucer Solenoid Issue

By Dakine747

8 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 months ago by Quench
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    #1 8 months ago

    The top saucer kicker on my Mata Hari stopped working mid-game suddenly. The saucer will score, but doesn’t kick back out. During coil self-test, the kicker solenoid will fire only (and simultaneously) when the chime 10 solenoid fires, but not when the solenoid sequence reaches the saucer step. So it WILL fire whenever a startup tune or game-over tune uses the 10 chime, or when the ball hits the drop target rebound switch, which scores 10 points and triggers a chime.

    I will always research a problem first before I come running to Pinside for help, but since that’s been done, and I’m still pretty green with the electronics side of all this, here we are. Any insight and/or wisdom is MUCH appreciated! Thank you!

    #2 8 months ago

    Suspect intermittent connection (s)

    Re seat cable on the cpu J4 and power driver P4

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    #3 8 months ago

    I already did J4 on the SDB, as per Chris Hibler, but I’ll do J4 on the MPU, and report back. Thank you!

    #4 8 months ago

    The two connectors are repinned, and I’m still getting the kicker firing only when the 10 chime is triggered.

    I should mention that I’m running a Bally FPGA MPU, which I’m totally unfamiliar with. That said, there’s an amber LED on the board, that the manual doesn’t address at all. It’s illustrated below.

    However, I’ve swapped out this FPGA with an Alltek MPU, as well as separately swapping the original SDB with an Alltek and same s**t, different day. I believe this would rule out the driver board, and the MPU, leading to, as you have suggested, a wiring/connection issue. I’m not sure where else to look at this point.

    Quoted from PINTEC:

    Suspect intermittent connection (s)
    Re seat cable on the cpu J4 and power driver P4[quoted image]

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    #5 8 months ago
    Quoted from Dakine747:

    That said, there’s an amber LED on the board, that the manual doesn’t address at all. It’s illustrated below.

    It's likely an indicator the MPU board is detecting the zero crossing signal from the rectifier board (good thing).

    Quoted from Dakine747:

    During coil self-test, the kicker solenoid will fire only (and simultaneously) when the chime 10 solenoid fires, but not when the solenoid sequence reaches the saucer step.

    The controller chip at U2 on the solenoid driver board can only activate one momentary solenoid at a time.
    The only possible way I could see this happen without any other solenoids activating at the wrong time is if you re-pinned J1 at the solenoid driver board and accidentally put the saucer wire into pin 2 instead of pin 3.

    MataHari_SDB_J1P.pngMataHari_SDB_J1P.png

    #6 8 months ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    The only possible way I could see this happen without any other solenoids activating at the wrong time is if you re-pinned J1 at the solenoid driver board and accidentally put the saucer wire into pin 2 instead of pin 3.

    Dang @quench, I did indeed have the pin in #2. I am usually SO methodical and meticulous when it comes to repinning. I will ALWAYS snip and pin one wire at a time, using a different connector, rather than snip them all and use the same connector. In addition, I always refer to the connector from which the wire was just snipped, with a laser focus, before the new pin gets inserted. I’ve had no difficulties, until now, apparently. In all the subsequent troubleshooting, all I can think of when I checked pin positions is that the wiring diagram doesn’t show anything in the #3 position on J1. There is a “note” in position number two that says that pin will be reserved for future use. Perhaps I just assumed that the pin should go there rather than number three when doublechecking pin placement.

    What’s interesting is that the solenoid kicker stopped working in the middle of a game, which makes me wonder if a kicker issue will now periodically resurface. I just tested it with the pin in the proper position, and the kicker is working fine. Hopefully, with all the repinning I have done in the last couple days, it will continue to work well for the foreseeable future.

    On a sidenote, the last couple days I have been poring over Pinside threads related to this issue. I have noticed that you have been an active participant in these types of threads for many years. Your participation is so highly regarded, and much appreciated, especially by me. Kudos to you sir!

    Cheers,
    Tom

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    #7 8 months ago

    @quench, I got the chime box all reconnected, closed up the game, started a game, and all is well, except now I’m missing the first digit (100,000) in all four player displays! UGH!! What did I mess up now, ya think?

    #8 8 months ago
    Quoted from Dakine747:

    that the wiring diagram doesn’t show anything in the #3 position on J1.

    I usually refer to the specific board diagrams for wiring info, the headbox wiring diagram sometimes lacks detail because it's usually used as a generic starting point.

    Quoted from Dakine747:

    except now I’m missing the first digit (100,000) in all four player displays! UGH!! What did I mess up now, ya think?

    Suspect MPU board J1 wire at pin 6 (100k digit enable signal). Wiggle the MPU J1 connector and see if the digit appears/disappears.

    #9 8 months ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Suspect MPU board J1 wire at pin 6 (100k digit enable signal). Wiggle the MPU J1 connector and see if the digit appears/disappears.

    I am hangin’ my head in shame here. J1 pin 6 was pushed out of the connector slightly. Bending the barb on the pin held it in, and digit 100K works once again.

    After poring over the schematics this morning, I now see the “Display Digit Enable” (albeit in sub-microscopic print). LOL

    I’m learning so much, and hope that one day, I’ll be as adept at this as you are. I could not be more grateful for your participation here, and countless other threads you participate in concerning game issues on these old Ballys. My hat’s off to you sir!

    Cheers,
    Tom

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    #10 8 months ago
    Quoted from Dakine747:

    I could not be more grateful for your participation here, and countless other threads you participate in concerning game issues on these old Ballys. My hat’s off to you sir!

    My pleasure

    Poring over schematics helps a lot and you'll find signals that control many things, simple example that J1 connector also has display enable signals for each display. The four display BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) signals control what numbers get displayed.

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