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Adjust Failure error System 11C RAM issue post NVRAM Bally Game Show

By radix

11 months ago

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Latest reply 10 months ago by ChrisHibler
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#1 11 months ago

I have done at least two dozen NVRAM installs. I recently installed a Pinitech 6116 module in a Bally Game Show using the provided socket. I had no issues removing the old SRAM and did not lift any traces. Reinstalled the MPU and everything worked great. Settings were saved between power cycles. Been using the game for weeks without issue. Then the game started giving me "adjust failure" warnings from time to time on boot. If I just waited a about minute the game would eventually boot and work and play as expected, saving changes/scores just fine as well The frequency of these warnings and the need to wait for the adjust failure to clear increased gradually becoming needed more and more. In the last week, I now receive the warning every time the game is turned on and it never boots regardless of how long I Wait. I've been unable to get the game to boot since. Also, the word adjust is garbled while the word failure is clear.

I do not have any regular 6116 SRAMs (disposed of the old one) around but I do have another Pinitech 6116. Swapping in the other NVRAM does not change the behavior. I tested the voltage at pin 25 and got 5.08v which is within the NVRAMs range of 3.3v-5.5v. I also tested D1 which measures as expected with about a 100mv drop, I also shorted it with do change. I tested D2 and it seems fine. I tested continuity from the NVRAM module to connected pins on ROMs U26 and U27 and all pins except 18 and 21 had continuity as expected. Do pins 18 and 21 go somewhere and if so where should I test them? I also confirmed there are no shorted solder joints. I removed the board, reflowed the U25 RAM socket solder joints, and tested continuity again getting the same results as before. Reinstalled the MPU and still get Adjust errors every time without the game booting. I programmed new ROMs for the U26 and U27 but that didn't change anything. I programmed an Xflash test ROM by Ed Cheung (it's like Leon Borre's) and used the rest button to test the RAM, the test comes back bad.

I do not really see evidence of alkaline damage to the board anywhere. I did remove the battery holder which had some corrosion on the battery terminals. Part of the solder mask did chip off (looks like a manufacturing defect) on a trace between U44 and SRC7 which seems like it would be unrelated, I did jumper that with no change in the results.

Does anyone have any suggestions you might be willing to share? I am really at a loss. Should 18 and 21 have conductivity to somewhere I can test? I have a logic probe but am a total noob to using it. Really could use the help.

#2 11 months ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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Can you post a picture of the board,?

#3 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
Can you post a picture of the board,?

Thank you for the response. Here are a couple of photos, I can zoom in on any area if that is helpful.

ram-area (resized).jpg

wide shot of board (resized).jpg

#4 10 months ago

237

slochar

Pinside member

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Do you have another 6116 either nvram or regular you can swap in? I know it's a new nv module, but maybe it's bad? Maybe cold solder joint on it? Anything else you can swap that module into? Do you have a burner that has a definition for the 6116 (tl866 does) that you can test it independently?

#5 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

Quoted from slochar:
Do you have another 6116 either nvram or regular you can swap in? I know it's a new nv module, but maybe it's bad? Maybe cold solder joint on it? Anything else you can swap that module into? Do you have a burner that has a definition for the 6116 (tl866 does) that you can test it independently?

I have two Pinitech 6116 NVRAMs and have tried both with the same result. I ordered a regular 6116 SRAM that will be here Tuesday to try. I do have a tl866 but not sure how to test something with the tl866, I will look into that.

#6 10 months ago

237

slochar

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OP
Quoted from radix:
I have two Pinitech 6116 NVRAMs and have tried both with the same result. I ordered a regular 6116 SRAM that will be here Tuesday to try. I do have a tl866 but not sure how to test something with the tl866, I will look into that.

You just search for 6116 in the device selection (with ALL for types) and choose the standard sram. Pop it into the tl866 correctly oriented and test.

Since it's a couple and probably something on the board, trace the signals for continuity ALL the way as far as you can. I had my ES board that a pad had lifted but wasn't obvious, I had great continuity from the nvram to the next chip, but it failed a couple pads down.

You still have that diode jumpered out right? That used to cause issues with the earlier nvrams in the 2000-2010 era - it can be borderline the voltage at which the nvram itself stops accepting changes. I jumper them all on games I add nvram to just so there's no issue. (And label the board, as I see you did)

#7 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

I tested a dozen 6264 SRAMs I had sitting around in my tl866 just to see how it works. I actually found one bad 6264 and the others all passed so I have the hang of it. That said I have maybe 25 NVRAMs a bunch of 6264s and 62256s and the 2 Pinitech 6116 NVRAMs and not a single NVRAM tests out as ok on the tl866 using the "Standard RAM" setting. That said if I use the RAMTRON setting settings it does not give me a test option like standard RAM but it does read from the NVRAMs which are all blank. Not sure the right way to test the NVRAM but it seems ok.

#8 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

I did all my continuity testing originally from the RAM socket over to the ROM sockets, that is where I discovered all pins had continuity to the ROM sockets pins except 18 and 21. Should 18 and 21 have continuity? I am looking for what points besides the RAM sockets to test. I see the schematic on page 3-9 of the manual but I admit to not not really understanding how the bus diagrams work. Should I be seeing continiutiy on all the address and data bus pins (give or take 18 and 21?) back at U54? Not really sure how to translate the labels like D1 and A4 to the pin numbers on U25. Are there any resources on how to read a schematic like this?

#9 10 months ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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Since the NVRAM originally worked, I am not suspecting it is the issue now, especially since another one was put in its place.

I definitely would replace C24, C26, C29 (100uf 25v) and C30 (22uf 25v). I know C30 can cause some random PIA failures upon boot up, and I think I have even seen random U25 failures from this capacitor failure, but not sure of that. These get replaced on all MPU boards that I repair. That was the main reason I wanted to see a picture of the board to know these were still the original capacitors.

Though, I see in my PM's where I sent Chris Hibler a message 6 years ago asking about U37 causing an adjustment failure. At that time, Chris had not seen a failure from this particular part. In the case of the Diner 11C MPU adjustment failure, that is what I found on that board I repaired for someone else. Also at that time, Dumbass even had a board he was repairing that he suspected the same part. I had not heard the result of that repair to this date. With a logic probe, I was able to see that I had a high on U37 pins 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15, whereas they all should have been pulsing. I had a good signal on pin 6 (VMA signal) from the PIAs.

#10 10 months ago

FNG

DumbAss

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Quoted from radix:
I did all my continuity testing originally from the RAM socket over to the ROM sockets, that is where I discovered all pins had continuity to the ROM sockets pins except 18 and 21. Should 18 and 21 have continuity? I am looking for what points besides the RAM sockets to test. I see the schematic on page 3-9 of the manual but I admit to not not really understanding how the bus diagrams work. Should I be seeing continuity on all the address and data bus pins (give or take 18 and 21?) back at U54?

Continuity testing for the busses is not just to the ROM sockets. You need to test bus continuity in "both" directions. Testing to U54 is one direction. You also need to test continuity to all the edges of the trace routes. The PIAs at the edges of the trace branching are U38, U41 and U54. The buffers are U11, U13 and U16.

Not really sure how to translate the labels like D1 and A4 to the pin numbers on U25. Are there any resources on how to read a schematic like this?

This is the pinout of the 6116. You should be able to figure out what pins 18 and 21 are from this. They are control signals. ~WE is "write enable". ~CS is "chip select".

00_6116.jpg

This is the pinout of the 6821.

01_6821.jpg

This is the schematic showing the 6116. The signals in question are highlighted. You can check the ~WE signal to the jumper. You can check the ~CS signal to the collector of the 2N3904.

02_6116_control_signals.jpg

If you want to follow the signals back to their "origin" at address decode, you have to follow them across schematic sheets.

03_sram_control_signals.jpg

Hope that helps.

Check continuity for all pins in all directions. If you want to see if the memory is even accessed, then use the TL866 to write a pattern into the FRAM, start the System 11 CPU board, turn it off, pull the NVRAM and read it again in the TL866 to see what has changed. If nothing has been changed then it's likely to be the ~WE or ~CS signals. They are fundamental to the operation of the IC as they are control signals.

#11 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

Quoted from DumbAss:
This is the pinout of the 6116. You should be able to figure out what pins 18 and 21 are from this. They are control signals. ~WE is "write enable". ~CS is "chip select".
[quoted image]
This is the pinout of the 6821.
[quoted image]
This is the schematic showing the 6116. The signals in question are highlighted. You can check the ~WE signal to the jumper. You can check the ~CS signal to the collector of the 2N3904.
[quoted image]
If you want to follow the signals back to their "origin" at address decode, you have to follow them across schematic sheets.
[quoted image]
Hope that helps.
Check continuity for all pins in all directions. If you want to see if the memory is even accessed, then use the TL866 to write a pattern into the FRAM, start the System 11 CPU board, turn it off, pull the NVRAM and read it again in the TL866 to see what has changed. If nothing has been changed then it's likely to be the ~WE or ~CS signals. They are fundamental to the operation of the IC as they are control signals.

Thank you DumbAss I learned a lot. I did my best today to test continuity in both directions. Here are the results

Pin 1 continuity to U13 and U27
Pin 2 continuity to U11 and U27
Pin 3 continuity to U11 and U27
Pin 4 continuity to U11 and U27
Pin 5 continuity to U11 and U27
Pin 6 continuity to U11 and U27
Pin 7 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 8 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 9 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 10 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 11 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 11 continuity to GND
Pin 12 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 13 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 14 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 15 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 16 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 17 continuity to U54 etc. and U27
Pin 18 continuity to Q40, I cant find continuity anywhere else. I did use diode test mode on Q40 and got readings of .65 a little high but seems fine. I did test the other leg of Q40 and it has continuity to U35
Pin 19 continuity to U13 and U27
Pin 20 continuity to U54 etc. and U27. I think this is right for OE.
Pin 21 continuity to W6 and U31
Pin 22 continuity to U13 and U27
Pin 23 continuity to U13 and U27
Pin is connected to VCC

It seems like continuity is maybe right for everything give or take 18. Does not seem like a bad solder joint with the NVRAM install.

I also got in the mail today 2x regular 6116 SRAMs. I tested both with my TL866 and they both passed. I installed them into the board and it did not work, there was a bit garabled text on the display but nothing else is different.

Any suggestions on what I should look at next?

#12 10 months ago

FNG

DumbAss

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Quoted from radix:
Any suggestions on what I should look at next?

Thank you for reading my post and following the advice. I post a lot of stuff like this and lot of it seems to be ignored by the people asking for the help. I often get no reply after my post. It's quite frustrating and it is a welcome change to see the advice taken to heart.

There are two requirements for basic software functionality.

The signals are connected to where they should be. This is passive (static) and is the continuity test.
The signals are functional. This is active (dynamic) and requires a logic probe.

Whenever you are dealing with a board that does not POST (power on self test) or "boot" properly then you should always go back to the Leon software. The Leon software is basic software that just toggles the PIA A and B ports. It doesn't do any verification. As it is not as complicated as game software, it is perfect to do active signal verification. By virtue of accessing all the PIAs, it tests address decode as well.

If you're comfortable that all the static connections are good then it must be dynamic (functional). Get yourself a ROM with the Leon software and a logic probe. See https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Leon_Borre_Williams_System_11_Repair for more information. If the Leon doesn't produce the desired result (pulsing PIA A and B ports for all PIAs) then you have a fundamental problem. In those cases, you should always go back to the above two requirements.

Whenever I approach a problem like this, the first thing I suspect is prior work. I always approach them systematically. If you try random things, your odds of success are much lower. I always do a thorough verification of ALL connections before moving to the functional test. Removing ICs at random increases the risk of damage to the board. More broken traces simply makes your repair even harder.

#13 10 months ago

^^^

PINTEC

Pinside member

Chicago, IL

6y 51,550 513

It seems like continuity is maybe right for everything give or take 18. Does not seem like a bad solder joint with the NVRAM install.

Any suggestions on what I should look at next?
**************************************************************************************************************************

No Change after replacing IC socket, several Ram's and confirming all traces:

Replace Q40

Re test

#14 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

Thank you everyone, for all the advice and support. I removed the board and installed the flash test ROM by Ed Cheung (it's like Leon Borre's) https://www.edcheung.com/album/album21/asm/asm.htm before doing any further testing I pressed the CPU/reset switch to trigger a memory test which has always failed before when tested. This time the memory test worked... no idea why, I made no changes to the board. The problem has been intermittent in the past so it could just be intermittent again.

DumbAss I followed the Leon Borree guide testing pins 2-17 on all the PIAs using a logic probe. All the pins tested showed a rhythmic high-low signal I was expecting except U41 Pin 2 (PA0) which connects to the display on 1J22. U41 Pin 2 is only giving me the low signal in rhythm but no high signal. Any thoughts on how to further troubleshoot this or is this an expected behavior? I was surprised by this result.

PinballManiac40 While I had the board on the bench I used an ESR meter to test C24, C26, C29 (100uf 25v), and C30 (22uf 25v). C30 tested with a high resistance indicating a bad cap. I replaced C30. I did not replace C24, C26, or C29 as I do not have that cap on hand and they both look and test ok for now.

No idea why it is working for now or if it will stay working. Would love to know how to look into U41 pin 2 more.

#15 10 months ago

FNG

DumbAss

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OP
Quoted from radix:
The problem has been intermittent in the past so it could just be intermittent again.

Intermittent problems are the most difficult to find, for obvious reasons. To assist with finding the cause, good observation is often required. Factors such as "the machine has been on for a while" or "only when the machine is powered on for the first few times". These are indicators of possible temperature reasons. I am not saying this is the case for you, but rather using that as an example of being observant.

OP
Quoted from radix:
All the pins tested showed a rhythmic high-low signal I was expecting except U41 Pin 2 (PA0) which connects to the display on 1J22. U41 Pin 2 is only giving me the low signal in rhythm but no high signal. Any thoughts on how to further troubleshoot this or is this an expected behavior?

This is the "h" segment. The segment corresponds to one in the upper or left display. Check the resistance of each of the PA0-PA7 pins between the pin and VCC. They should be 4.7k through the pullup SIP (SRC5). You can check all the others but there's no need since they operate correctly with the Leon. I would check all PA0-PA7 pins on U41 as they should all be identical to each other.

This failure should not cause a POST failure. U41-PA0 is an output so the software simply sets the bit and does nothing further with it.

OP
Quoted from radix:
C30 tested with a high resistance indicating a bad cap. I replaced C30.

This is part of the reset circuit. Instability here can cause intermittent issues. If the reset circuit has not been replaced with a voltage supervisor (reset generator) then you should definitely replace this.

OP
Quoted from radix:
No idea why it is working for now or if it will stay working. Would love to know how to look into U41 pin 2 more.

So if everything else in the Leon passes then the game software should POST. If it doesn't POST then my experience indicates that it is the SRAM (U25) IC. Of course, this doesn't help you because this is the IC in question.

#16 10 months ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

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14y 234K 17,639 104

OP
Quoted from radix:
PinballManiac40 While I had the board on the bench I used an ESR meter to test C24, C26, C29 (100uf 25v), and C30 (22uf 25v). C30 tested with a high resistance indicating a bad cap. I replaced C30. I did not replace C24, C26, or C29 as I do not have that cap on hand and they both look and test ok for now.

Good reason to wait and see what happens. A failed C30 does cause random PIA failures at boot up, as I seen that many times. Time will tell if it was causing your U25 issue.

#17 10 months ago

radix

Pinside member

11y 45,550 71

Well, I played a game last night and it work. I played a game this morning and noticed some ghosting of the same segment on every character on the left display. I turned the game off and right back on again with the intention of running the display test to see what happens and the game would not post again. It will not post all day. It takes a long time (a few minutes) to get to a point where it shows an adjust failure again. This is the exact same behavior it was doing before I removed the board. The adjust error has the word adjust garbled and the word failure clearly outlined.

Leaving the board in the game and removing all connectors to the MPU except power I put Leon's ROM back in and ran it. All the PICs proved to work except U41. Now pin 2 does a solid low only signal. Pin 3 low only but pulses in rhythm. Seems like something is up with U41. Pin goes to J1J22-26 on the display and its labeled "com"

Quoted from DumbAss:
This is the "h" segment. The segment corresponds to one in the upper or left display. Check the resistance of each of the PA0-PA7 pins between the pin and VCC. They should be 4.7k through the pullup SIP (SRC5). You can check all the others but there's no need since they operate correctly with the Leon. I would check all PA0-PA7 pins on U41 as they should all be identical to each other.
This failure should not cause a POST failure. U41-PA0 is an output so the software simply sets the bit and does nothing further with it.

DumbAss I am not 100% sure what the pullup SIP (SRC5) means sorry, am I supposed to pull a pin-up to test? I did take a DMM and connected it to pin 20 (VCC) and tested resistance to pins 2-17. Pin one is very low .53k, pin 2 is 1.13k, pins 4-9 are 2.5k, and 10-17 are 4.5k. For comparison, I tested U51 pins 2-8 are 6.2k, and pins 10-17 are between 4.2-4.7k.

I did test voltages on the board with the factory power supply attached. The power supply board reads TP1 5.2v, TP3 11.85v (goes as low as 11.25 when Leon's is switching the MPU relay), TP3 13.92v. I also measured the voltage on the MPU at a few places like the NVRAM and PIAs and got 5.08-5.10v. Do these voltages seem ok? The diagnostic LEDs show as follows, 5v LED is lit, the diagnostic LED blinks continuously and the blanking LED is NOT lit.

Quoted from DumbAss:
This is part of the reset circuit. Instability here can cause intermittent issues. If the reset circuit has not been replaced with a voltage supervisor (reset generator) then you should definitely replace this.

I earnestly searched for the terms you outlined but I am not seeing any guides to replacing the reset circuit with a voltage supervisor. Is there a guide you can point me toward?

Ugh, this board is killing me, just work! It feels like something is wrong with U41 but that is not why the game wont post.

#18 10 months ago

FNG

DumbAss

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9y 109K 2,990

OP
Quoted from radix:
It takes a long time (a few minutes) to get to a point where it shows an adjust failure again. This is the exact same behavior it was doing before I removed the board. The adjust error has the word adjust garbled and the word failure clearly outlined.

Note that you will typically get "adjustment failure" when the SRAM checksum has failed AND the coin door is closed. This causes the ~MEM_PROTECT signal to be low which blocks access to parts of the SRAM for writing. If the coin door is open then you will get "factory settings". Try powering on the machine with the coin door open when running your long haul testing to get another data point. If you still get "adjustment failure" with the coin door open then you have a problem elsewhere (probably another logic IC).

OP
Quoted from radix:
Leaving the board in the game and removing all connectors to the MPU except power I put Leon's ROM back in and ran it. All the PICs proved to work except U41. Now pin 2 does a solid low only signal. Pin 3 low only but pulses in rhythm. Seems like something is up with U41. Pin goes to J1J22-26 on the display and its labeled "com"

U41-3 (U41-PA1) is the "j" segment. The "com" segment is U41-17 (U41-PB7). Your report (above) is inconsistent.

I am not 100% sure what the pullup SIP (SRC5) means sorry, am I supposed to pull a pin-up to test? I did take a DMM and connected it to pin 20 (VCC) and tested resistance to pins 2-17. Pin one is very low .53k, pin 2 is 1.13k, pins 4-9 are 2.5k, and 10-17 are 4.5k. For comparison, I tested U51 pins 2-8 are 6.2k, and pins 10-17 are between 4.2-4.7k.

SRC5 is resistor/capacitor network. The resistor operates as a pull-up resistor. I have seen values that are not 4.7k but the problem is that you are measuring in circuit. The only truly valid measurement is when the resistor network is isolated. When measuring, you're really looking for something obviously wrong (like a short).

OP
Quoted from radix:
Do these voltages seem ok? The diagnostic LEDs show as follows, 5v LED is lit, the diagnostic LED blinks continuously and the blanking LED is NOT lit.

The LEDs don't mean much when using the Leon.

OP
Quoted from radix:
I earnestly searched for the terms you outlined but I am not seeing any guides to replacing the reset circuit with a voltage supervisor. Is there a guide you can point me toward?

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_System_9_-_11#An_Alternative_to_Rebuilding_the_Reset_Circuit_.2F_Using_a_Reset_Generator_.28All_versions_of_System_11.29

OP
Quoted from radix:
Ugh, this board is killing me, just work! It feels like something is wrong with U41 but that is not why the game wont post.

If U41 has partially failed (fails intermittently under load) then it can produce inconsistent results on execution. It's hard to prove it without something like an oscilloscope to capture the failed state. That's a lot of work. Sometimes, a hunch is worth following through on. That's a call for you to make.

If you have reached the level of your comfort or experience then you should send the board out for repair.

#19 10 months ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 120K 9,998 46

A few thoughts.
Replace U41. It’s seemingly small dysfunction could indicate more serious internal issues.

With the game in the failed state, use a logic probe to see which pins of the NVRAM are not pulsing. All pins except Vcc and GND should be pulsing.

Since you’ve been at this so long, let’s make sure there are no solder bridges at the 6116 or elsewhere.

Meter on continuity check
Black on pin 1
Rake pins 2-24 slowly.
Black on pin 2
Rake pins 3-24 slowly
Repeat until you are left with only pins 23-24
We are looking for any continuity indication.

Doing this tests for every possible pin-to-pin short.

Not a problem but for future NVRAM install and for those reading along, your 11C board can also use a 6264 NVRAM by changing the jumper adjacent to the chip location. For me, a 6264 is always preferable since they are more widely used, generally cheaper, and require no special circuitry on the NVRAM module.

File that info away. It’s not germane to the problem.

—
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

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