(Topic ID: 144431)

Zero out NVRAM?


By ForceFlow

4 years ago



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  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Pepse25
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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    #1 4 years ago

    With NVRAM adapters becoming less expensive, that option has been becoming increasingly attractive over batteries in most cases.

    Since the point of NVRAM is to always retain data, is there an easy way to zero it out, such as when you swap it from game to game, so you don't end up with garbage/corrupted data when installing the adapter in a new game?

    #2 4 years ago

    Depends on the game.

    Wms 3-7 can use the command reset function via dip switches and diag button. WMS 3-7 checks a small section of the ram to see if the data is valid. I have found you can put a 5101 nvram adapter into a bally MPU and then put it into wms mpu and the wms mpu boots without zeroing ram.

    Bally -17, -35, stern mpu 100/200. Just cycle through the audits and zero out with nmi button on mpu. Sometimes a credit switch will zero audits in later bally.

    Bally 6803 you must go into audits and tell it to factory restore by entering in 65 to that factory reset audit.

    WMS sys 11+ has factory restore through the diag / audit mode. Typically these newer games will detect bad ram automatically.

    Before I send out nvram, I use the NeoLoch tester to clear the ram contents.

    An eprom burner probably could be used if you had the right profile.

    #3 4 years ago

    Thanks for the details.

    I have both the NeoLoch tester and a GQ-4X burner.

    Using the NeoLoch tester sounds like it might be quickest/easiest. How would you clear it? If you have an NVRAM adapter for 5101 RAM, would you plug in the NVRAM adapter and run the 5101 test? Or would you remove the NVRAM from the adapter and run a test directly on the NVRAM chip?

    #4 4 years ago

    For my 5101 adapters, I test the fm1608 outside of the adapter in the NeoLoch as 6264. Then the 5101 adapter goes into a wms mpu and real game checked. Then I use the NeoLoch tester on 5101 test to clear the ram.

    The NeoLoch on 5101 mode writes random stuff. So a bally game will still need zero'd. A wms game will factory default automatically.

    #5 4 years ago
    Quoted from barakandl:

    For my 5101 adapters, I test the fm1608 outside of the adapter in the NeoLoch as 6264. Then the 5101 adapter goes into a wms mpu and real game checked. Then I use the NeoLoch tester on 5101 test to clear the ram.
    The NeoLoch on 5101 mode writes random stuff. So a bally game will still need zero'd. A wms game will factory default automatically.

    I'm a little confused here. Do the 6264/5101 tests zero out the chip, or leave garbage data behind? Or does the 6264 test zero, and 5101 test leave data behind?

    #6 4 years ago

    Currently just the 6264 test on the Neoloch RAM LCD and Inquisitor testers zero out the RAM. You would need to put the 5101 into a 28-pin DIP converter to test as a 6264 to get the zero function.

    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    #7 4 years ago
    Quoted from Borygard:

    Currently just the 6264 test on the Neoloch RAM LCD and Inquisitor testers zero out the RAM. You would need to put the 5101 into a 28-pin DIP converter to test as a 6264 to get the zero function.
    --
    Rob Anthony
    Pinball Classics
    http://LockWhenLit.com
    Quality Board Work - In Home Service
    borygard at gmail dot com

    Gotcha. Now that makes sense.

    Thanks guys

    #8 4 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    I'm a little confused here. Do the 6264/5101 tests zero out the chip, or leave garbage data behind? Or does the 6264 test zero, and 5101 test leave data behind?

    The version of neo loch i have ends up writing random stuff in the 5101. This is enough to trigger factory default every time in a WMS game, but in a bally/stern game the audits will be all "555555" or "454545" or something like that. Same with 6116 RAM in a Bally 6803 game. All the old audits will be overwritten and replaced with the test pattern that the NeoLoch tester used. Since Bally does not check for valid ram, you will have to reset it manually or you are left with neoloch test pattern.

    #9 4 years ago

    Just build an adapter for the GQ-4X -- 6116 to 6264, 5101 to 6264. The 6116 is fairly easy, I built mine out of a 28-pin DIP socket with a 24-pin zif stuck in it and added a few jumper wires on the back of it to bring over vcc, etc. There's very little difference between a 6116 and 6264 for pinout so you don't even need a custom board there. Andrew, you can probably use your 6264 to 5101 board for the 5101. Little bit of tinkering / jumpers to get it to work, but that's basically all this adapter is.. http://www.pinitech.com/lab/gq4x_5101_adapter.php

    I don't trust the NEOLOCH to zero things out.. the old versions didn't, the new code doesn't zero out 5101 NVRAM and who's to say that feature doesn't get messed up at some point. I'd rather zero it out with the GQ-4X and verify via a checksum. I don't trust anything 100% to tell me in one pass that the nvram (or RAM) is good.. I run tests multiple times.. and I also use the GQ-4X with custom test data for each type of memory & multiple passes there (zero out, write test data, zero out again, write test data) and verify via the checksums to tell me the nvram is working correctly. I then zero out the nvram before it goes to the customer. Just all tools / methods to making it a bit easier building and testing this stuff.

    #10 4 years ago

    what profile do you use on the gq-4x? Does the pinout match any eproms or is an adapter needed to be made?

    #11 4 years ago

    I'll post this here for ForceFlow cause he's an awesome guy and asked the question.. and there are a ton of other cool people like that in the community that would benefit from being able to zero out their nvram.

    Add this to your GQ-4X devices.txt file..

    ;*****************
    ;* CMOS/TTL *
    ;*****************

    Name="MCM5101",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",Category="SRAM",MFG="Motorola",VCC="5V",Codesize="256",Adapter="Use 5101 Adapter",Message="Uncheck verify, only use Write to test ";

    Name="6264_FM1608",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",CodeSize="8192",Category="SRAM",MFG="RAMTRON",VCC="5V";

    Name="6116_FM1608",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",Codesize="2048",Category="SRAM",MFG="RAMTRON",VCC="5V";Adapter="Use 6116 Adapter"

    ----
    Explanation: The "CodeSize" is just telling it how much data to pull back (in bytes). The "Class" is selecting the DS1230Y as the compatible memory chip (same pinout as a 6264). Name, Category, MFG are for identification within the GQ-4X software. The "Adapter" string is just to put the little blurb by picture of how the chip is inserted (right side of the GUI) to notify you an adapter is needed.
    ----

    For the 6116 Adapter you need a 24-pin ZIF inserted into a 28-pin socket. Pin #1 on the ZIF socket goes into the 28-pin socket's pin #3. So you then have pin #1, #2, #27, #28 on the 28-pin socket not making any connections. On the 28-pin socket.. cut pins #26 and #23 high. Then add a jumper between pin #28 and pin #26 (VCC). Then add another jumper from pin #27 to pin #23 (R/W). That's all there is to that one.

    For the 5101 Adapter you'll need some kind of adapter board.. a 6264 DIP to 5101 adapter board works. Wiring it with perf board or anything would be a total chore otherwise. You need to pull CE2 high since the DS1230Y only has one chip enable. Otherwise it's the normal wiring of address/data lines. On mine I pulled unused data lines to VCC.. but you should probably have pull-up resistors on those instead.

    So there you have it folks. Good luck, and be sure to remember who provided you with this information if you use it for your personal gain

    #12 4 years ago

    Isn't she a beaut?

    6116_adapter.jpg

    #13 4 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    I'll post this here for ForceFlow cause he's an awesome guy and asked the question.. and there are a ton of other cool people like that in the community that would benefit from being able to zero out their nvram.
    Add this to your GQ-4X devices.txt file..
    ;*****************
    ;* CMOS/TTL *
    ;*****************
    Name="MCM5101",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",Category="SRAM",MFG="Motorola",VCC="5V",Codesize="256",Adapter="Use 5101 Adapter",Message="Uncheck verify, only use Write to test ";
    Name="6264_FM1608",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",CodeSize="8192",Category="SRAM",MFG="RAMTRON",VCC="5V";
    Name="6116_FM1608",ID="XXXX",Class="DS1230Y",Codesize="2048",Category="SRAM",MFG="RAMTRON",VCC="5V";Adapter="Use 6116 Adapter"
    ----
    Explanation: The "CodeSize" is just telling it how much data to pull back (in bytes). The "Class" is selecting the DS1230Y as the compatible memory chip (same pinout as a 6264). Name, Category, MFG are for identification within the GQ-4X software. The "Adapter" string is just to put the little blurb by picture of how the chip is inserted (right side of the GUI) to notify you an adapter is needed.
    ----
    For the 6116 Adapter you need a 24-pin ZIF inserted into a 28-pin socket. Pin #1 on the ZIF socket goes into the 28-pin socket's pin #3. So you then have pin #1, #2, #27, #28 on the 28-pin socket not making any connections. On the 28-pin socket.. cut pins #26 and #23 high. Then add a jumper between pin #28 and pin #26 (VCC). Then add another jumper from pin #27 to pin #23 (R/W). That's all there is to that one.
    For the 5101 Adapter you'll need some kind of adapter board.. a 6264 DIP to 5101 adapter board works. Wiring it with perf board or anything would be a total chore otherwise. You need to pull CE2 high since the DS1230Y only has one chip enable. Otherwise it's the normal wiring of address/data lines. On mine I pulled unused data lines to VCC.. but you should probably have pull-up resistors on those instead.
    So there you have it folks. Good luck, and be sure to remember who provided you with this information if you use it for your personal gain

    Thanks for taking the time to post this.

    I'm getting a little confused, though between talking about 5101/6116 static RAM, 6264 NVRAM, and various adapters. So, just to keep things straight:

    The code and ZIF adapter you provided is for zeroing out 5101/6116 static RAM, correct?

    And 6264 NVRAM chips that are socketed can just be removed and placed in the GQ-4X and zeroed out without an adapter, correct? For example: http://nvram.weebly.com/

    If 6264 NVRAM is not socketed and instead is soldered directly to an NVRAM PCB adapter, would you also use the code and ZIF adapter and treat the NVRAM adapter and treat it as if it were 5101/6116 RAM since that is how the pinout is arranged? For example: http://www.pinitech.com/products/5101_adapter.php
    http://lockwhenlit.com/anyPin.htm

    #14 4 years ago

    The lines I posted are extra "devices" to add to the GQ-4X devices.txt file -- basically just a little configuration file where all the devices it can handle are defined.. and in some cases one device is built off another device but with the Codesize changed to limit the data pulled back. Anyway, adding those lines would give you 3x more devices you could choose from... 6116_FM1608, 6264_FM1608 and MCM5101.

    6264_FM1608 = you can just put a RAMTRON DIP or 6264 compatible nvram adapter into the GQ-4X
    6116_FM1608 = need to build the 24-pin zif / 28-pin socket adapter (as described & pictured)
    MCM5101 = need a custom 6264 DIP to 5101 DIP footprint adapter for this

    So.. let's say you have a 6264 NVRAM from myself.. or one of Andrew's.. or Rob's AnyPin in 6264 mode. You can pop in the 28-pin adapter board or DIP directly into the GQ-4X and then just select the "6264_FM1608" device.. then you should be able to read/write to it.

    For a 6116.. you need to build the adapter board & use the "6116_FM1608" device profile in GQ-4X. You can then put a 6116 compatible NVRAM into the 24-pin ZIF socket (on the adapter you built). That whole thing can then be inserted into the GQ-4X ZIF socket as if it was a 28-pin 6264 (as above)... only because you have a different device profile, it's going to only read the amount of data a 6116 would contain.

    For a 5101.. that one is a bit harder. You need a custom adapter board or you're going to have a heck of a time perf boarding it. It's do-able, but it's going to look like a rats nest of wires. What I mean by custom board is something like what I show here -- http://www.pinitech.com/lab/gq4x_5101_adapter.php Ignore the SRAM comments or that I'm playing around with a PCD5101P on it.. you would just plug the 5101 compatible nvram into that adapter board & be able to read/write to it after selecting the "MCM5101" device in GQ-4X.

    #15 4 years ago
    Quoted from acebathound:

    The lines I posted are extra "devices" to add to the GQ-4X devices.txt file -- basically just a little configuration file where all the devices it can handle are defined.. and in some cases one device is built off another device but with the Codesize changed to limit the data pulled back. Anyway, adding those lines would give you 3x more devices you could choose from... 6116_FM1608, 6264_FM1608 and MCM5101.
    6264_FM1608 = you can just put a RAMTRON DIP or 6264 compatible nvram adapter into the GQ-4X
    6116_FM1608 = need to build the 24-pin zif / 28-pin socket adapter (as described & pictured)
    MCM5101 = need a custom 6264 DIP to 5101 DIP footprint adapter for this
    So.. let's say you have a 6264 NVRAM from myself.. or one of Andrew's.. or Rob's AnyPin in 6264 mode. You can pop in the 28-pin adapter board or DIP directly into the GQ-4X and then just select the "6264_FM1608" device.. then you should be able to read/write to it.
    For a 6116.. you need to build the adapter board & use the "6116_FM1608" device profile in GQ-4X. You can then put a 6116 compatible NVRAM into the 24-pin ZIF socket (on the adapter you built). That whole thing can then be inserted into the GQ-4X ZIF socket as if it was a 28-pin 6264 (as above)... only because you have a different device profile, it's going to only read the amount of data a 6116 would contain.
    For a 5101.. that one is a bit harder. You need a custom adapter board or you're going to have a heck of a time perf boarding it. It's do-able, but it's going to look like a rats nest of wires. What I mean by custom board is something like what I show here -- http://www.pinitech.com/lab/gq4x_5101_adapter.php Ignore the SRAM comments or that I'm playing around with a PCD5101P on it.. you would just plug the 5101 compatible nvram into that adapter board & be able to read/write to it.

    Ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

    #16 4 years ago

    No problem

    Not sure if I ever tried my MPU-200 Adapter in reverse to see if I could read 2x 5101 nvrams at once. I bet that'd work. I just hadn't had a 5101 nvram small enough at the time to pop 2x in there

    #17 4 years ago

    I should mention here you can also read/write FM1608 and 6264 adapters with GQ-4X set to the dallas DS1225Y profile.
    Untitled.png

    Here is a good zero out procedure for FM1608 that requires no changing to the GQ-4X software.

    Set the GQ-4X software to the Dallas DS1225Y profile. Have nothing in the GQ-4X ZIF socket. Do a read. It will read blank (nothing in the GQ-4X). You can then save this read with nothing installed as your zero out image. Put in your FM1608 and write the blank image to it.

    You can also have random images to use as test patterns. Blank the FM1608, write the test pattern and read back to verify.

    #18 4 years ago

    Also to note on Williams System 7, you can use function 50 to perform the following actions on audit exit / next restart:
    15 - Startup in Auto Cycle Mode
    35 - Clear Audits
    45 - Restore Default Settings

    and branching off of barakandl,
    yes, System 7 should notice the 2 check bytes it stores in nvram are off and restore the default settings.
    you also could try pressing the diagnostics switch on the CPU board a few times to see if you can interrupt the routine that moves nvram to ram for a bit while it runs a simple check on the nvram, so when it starts up again, it notices the invalid nvram code and restores the default settings.

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