Zen Studios aquires right to Bally/Williams games for digital release

(Topic ID: 224677)

Zen Studios aquires right to Bally/Williams games for digital release


By uncivil_engineer

3 months ago



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  • Latest reply 8 days ago by adamross
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#101 89 days ago

They have it listed on the Nintendo Switch store as having a selection....the more arcade video gm versions or the classic style. I can’t wait for the more arcade versions myself.....tired of the boring classics ball physics. Video games should be less SIM IMO.

#102 89 days ago
Quoted from BenLogan:

Guys, if you’re interested in this remaining a proper pinball simulation, versus a pinball flavored video game (not that those aren’t fun too), I encourage you to download the beta on Steam and comment in their forum.
The most recent version (released yesterday) changed the ball physics more toward traditional Zen fantasy physics, even in their Arcade simulation (vs fantasy) mode. They’re a good group of devs who really seem to listen and respond to community feedback. Let’s let them know there are a bunch of us who want a proper sim!

Man, that’s what I was afraid of.. not that TPA was excellent at the physics, but I have not enjoyed the crazy “arcade style” Zen uses in the othergames. I’m glad to hear they are open for discussion on that stuff

#103 89 days ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

They have it listed on the Nintendo Switch store as having a selection....the more arcade video gm versions or the classic style. I can’t wait for the more arcade versions myself.....tired of the boring classics ball physics. Video games should be less SIM IMO.

I couldn't disagree more and I hope there aren't many that feel the same bc talk about a complete waste.

Zen physics are absolute garbage. The classic take it's so much more enjoyable and if they're going to release classic games the physics better be right.

I have played the beta and happy with it so I'm definitely going to support this.

#104 89 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I couldn't disagree more and I hope there aren't many that feel the same bc talk about a complete waste.
Zen physics are absolute garbage. The classic take it's so much more enjoyable and if they're going to release classic games the physics better be right.
I have played the beta and happy with it so I'm definitely going to support this.

If I want classics I’ll play the real thing....no need for that stuff in my arcade video games. I like all the added effects to spruce things up...good thing they are giving us choices!!

#105 89 days ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

If I want classics I’ll play the real thing....no need for that stuff in my arcade video games. I like all the added effects to spruce things up...good thing they are giving us choices!!

sure b/c everyone has an unlimited budget. Isn't the point to bring these classics home to a virtual setting so you're not spending thousands but still have a similar experience?

I'm all about the choices so that's good to see but why one would prefer fake physics is beyond me.

#106 89 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

sure b/c everyone has an unlimited budget. Isn't the point to bring these classics home to a virtual setting so you're not spending thousands but still have a similar experience?
I'm all about the choices so that's good to see but why one would prefer fake physics is beyond me.

It’s not fake physics...sure it’s over the top exaggerated physics but that’s what is fun for me. If I want to get a feel for the real thing they have that option but it’s boring when it’s translated into a video game and ur using a controller and not in a cabinet.

I wasn’t implying everyone had unlimited budgets but physical Pinball can be very similar when broken down into the sum of its parts.

We are looking for two different experiences here...and it looks like ZEN is throwing us a bone. I don’t like FARSIGHT ball physics but I enjoy ZENS. I like crazy, over the top stuff that ZEN does. I dunno how to explain it but if I’m having fun than I’m fine with that.

We cool or what ?!

#107 88 days ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

It’s not fake physics...

Point of clarification - it's absolutely fake physics. It's a bunch of math, simulating actual forces like gravity and friction. Even at their best approximation it's still fake.

#108 88 days ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Point of clarification - it's absolutely fake physics. It's a bunch of math, simulating actual forces like gravity and friction. Even at their best approximation it's still fake.

Ok. I like fake physics than.

#109 88 days ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

It’s not fake physics...sure it’s over the top exaggerated physics but that’s what is fun for me. If I want to get a feel for the real thing they have that option but it’s boring when it’s translated into a video game and ur using a controller and not in a cabinet.
I wasn’t implying everyone had unlimited budgets but physical Pinball can be very similar when broken down into the sum of its parts.
We are looking for two different experiences here...and it looks like ZEN is throwing us a bone. I don’t like FARSIGHT ball physics but I enjoy ZENS. I like crazy, over the top stuff that ZEN does. I dunno how to explain it but if I’m having fun than I’m fine with that.
We cool or what ?!

def cool - have to respect opinions of others even if I disagree so no worries. I just hope there aren't a lot of people like you nagging the devs about why classic physics are boring as you would be a doing a tremendous disservice to the virtual community.

#110 88 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

def cool - have to respect opinions of others even if I disagree so no worries. I just hope there aren't a lot of people like you nagging the devs about why classic physics are boring as you would be a doing a tremendous disservice to the virtual community.

Understood. I’ve never never nagged or contacted them once wanting this...I’m just more of a ZEN supporter. I’m not saying that all there recreations are gold but I enjoy there style more than I could with FARSIGHT but FARSIGHT did hook me into video Pinball first and foremost....and there is something to be said to having video game recreations of real world pins...no doubt!
I’d rather waste time here babbling with pinsiders than bug game devs to which I have nothing to offer besides what I want....they know what they are doing and listen to constructive criticism.

I’m making the world a better place. So hopefully there are plenty of people like me

#111 88 days ago
Quoted from Pinballerchef:

Ok. I like fake physics than.

than what?

#112 88 days ago
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#113 88 days ago

It's arcade style vs simulation. Like Ridge Racer vs Gran Turismo. Sometimes I enjoy doing impossible mile long drifts while still beating someone hitting the apex on a curve. Other times, I like dialing in brake force, suspension settings, tire pressure, and downforce.

I use to bag on Zen's physics and compared it to TPA for being too easy and unrealistic, but now I can appreciate the arcade-style gameplay. Shooting balls into portals that pop the ball to a completely different place? Having infrared vision where you can see only the ball and the shots you need to make glowing red? It's pretty awesome if you look at Zen in a purely video gaming lens.

Now for WMS titles, it HAS to be simulated because they are rendering pre-existing real-life physical tables. I can play the Marvel, Bethesda, Alien, and Predator stuff with the graphics and fake physics. But the real pins need as real as possible physics.

#114 87 days ago

Happy to say that the latest beta represents a major improvement (released 9/19/18). Three physics options:

Zen Mode: Traditional Zen style “fantasy” physics. Some cool (and actually tasteful) 3D Zen effects. The castle on MM, for example, explodes with fireball animations.

Arcade Mode: Simulated real world physics. Think slope settings equivalent to what you’d find in a local pizza joint. Way harder and more true to life than TPA, by a long shot! Easy to learn tough to master.

Tournament Mode: Steeper slope for sure. Perhaps bordering on too steep (I’d rather see them err on the side of too hard!). Not sure if they widened outlanes and increased sling sensitivity.

I’m a VPX guy, but I’ll certainly be buying all these new Zen Williams tables. Zen is doing a fantastic job of listening to feedback. They’re cool guys. I like they’re physics (the “Deep Engine”) even more than Pro Pinball Timeshock — and those are tough to beat in digital pinball. High marks!

#115 86 days ago
Quoted from BenLogan:

Happy to say that the latest beta represents a major improvement (released 9/19/18). Three physics options:
Zen Mode: Traditional Zen style “fantasy” physics. Some cool (and actually tasteful) 3D Zen effects. The castle on MM, for example, explodes with fireball animations.
Arcade Mode: Simulated real world physics. Think slope settings equivalent to what you’d find in a local pizza joint. Way harder and more true to life than TPA, by a long shot! Easy to learn tough to master.
Tournament Mode: Steeper slope for sure. Perhaps bordering on too steep (I’d rather see them err on the side of too hard!). Not sure if they widened outlanes and increased sling sensitivity.
I’m a VPX guy, but I’ll certainly be buying all these new Zen Williams tables. Zen is doing a fantastic job of listening to feedback. They’re cool guys. I like they’re physics (the “Deep Engine”) even more than Pro Pinball Timeshock — and those are tough to beat in digital pinball. High marks!

The extra animations can be toggled on ANY of the three physics options, at the press of a button. Your preference, if you want Zen graphics on tournament mode, for instance.

#116 86 days ago

I really didn't think I would care for the animations at first...Took about 30 seconds of toggling back and forth to change my mind, these animations are great.

#117 86 days ago
Quoted from Pinballwiz45b:

The extra animations can be toggled on ANY of the three physics options, at the press of a button. Your preference, if you want Zen graphics on tournament mode, for instance.

That’s good news, pinballwiz45b. Thanks!

#118 86 days ago

I definitely appreciate what Farsight did with Pinball Arcade but they just dont support their product well and after seeing how bad they did the GB table im really skeptical about buying any new ones from here out from them. I have a feeling after people see the Williams tables by Zen that everyone is going to almost forget about Farsight completely. Zen has some of the best graphics in all of gaming. I cannot wait till October 9th to buy the first Williams pack from Zen.

#119 86 days ago

The physics on FX3 seem to be really improving. The ball feels heavier and more lifelike for sure. Its cool that they are adding more things like challenges to these games as well. So far it feels like an improvement to The Pinball Arcade.

15
#120 81 days ago

Zen Studios just posted a new video comparing some of the improved ball control in the new physics model.

Also, I'm wondering if there's any hidden message behind the pinball machines they chose to stand in front of for this video...

#121 81 days ago

That video looks amazing. Physics might even be good enough that you can learn flipper skills that would transfer to real machines.

1 week later
10
#122 69 days ago

ATTENTION!!
*********

They censored all tables in different aspects (sounds, cabinet artwork, playfield,..). WTF Zen Pinball did you think about that? Do at least an option to turn all that **** OFF and have it original. Won't support and buy that game till it's uncensored.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3317353727663998942/

list of censored things:

Fish Tales:
-- added bubbles near pelican's pipe on sides art of cabinet
-- edited text on 2 cans on backglass
-- pipe removed from mouth of character near top rollovers
-- cigar removed from mouth of fisherman at center of playfield art
-- art on sides of table head: mermaids belly is covered with scales instead of be regular human skin

Medieval Madness:
-- ROM is set to family mode - several censored DMD animations of knight fighting with dragon (activates by shooting dragon ramp). [reported as will be optional on release]
-- on backglass cigar is removed from Troll's mouth
-- on backglass blood is removed from King's sword
-- on backglass blood is removed from sword in "Medieval Madness" (letter "i") text logo
-- on backglass girl's outfit in left lower corner is edited "from bikini to full armor"
-- on sides of cabinet blood is removed from sword
-- during Video mode on DMD text "child" and "calf" changed to "taken" [did not cheked yet]
-- "VO's using the version free from pertinent content of the "I'm Lord Howard Hurtz" line"

Junk Yard:
-- on backglass cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on playfield cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on back inside of cabinet cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on backglass upper part of girl's in thub chest art is covered with more bubbles
-- some voices/sounds during Toilet shots in Family mode [need to check which ones]

#123 69 days ago

nothing like the crybabies trying to re-write history.

#124 69 days ago
Quoted from OlDirty:

ATTENTION!!
*********
They censored all tables in different aspects (sounds, cabinet artwork, playfield,..). WTF Zen Pinball did you think about that?

See http://www.esrb.org/

#125 69 days ago
Quoted from OlDirty:

ATTENTION!!
*********
They censored all tables in different aspects (sounds, cabinet artwork, playfield,..). WTF Zen Pinball did you think about that? Do at least an option to turn all that **** OFF and have it original. Won't support and buy that game till it's uncensored.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/442120/discussions/0/3317353727663998942/
list of censored things:
Fish Tales:
-- added bubbles near pelican's pipe on sides art of cabinet
-- edited text on 2 cans on backglass
-- pipe removed from mouth of character near top rollovers
-- cigar removed from mouth of fisherman at center of playfield art
-- art on sides of table head: mermaids belly is covered with scales instead of be regular human skin
Medieval Madness:
-- ROM is set to family mode - several censored DMD animations of knight fighting with dragon (activates by shooting dragon ramp). [reported as will be optional on release]
-- on backglass cigar is removed from Troll's mouth
-- on backglass blood is removed from King's sword
-- on backglass blood is removed from sword in "Medieval Madness" (letter "i") text logo
-- on backglass girl's outfit in left lower corner is edited "from bikini to full armor"
-- on sides of cabinet blood is removed from sword
-- during Video mode on DMD text "child" and "calf" changed to "taken" [did not cheked yet]
-- "VO's using the version free from pertinent content of the "I'm Lord Howard Hurtz" line"
Junk Yard:
-- on backglass cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on playfield cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on back inside of cabinet cigar is removed from Bob's mouth
-- on backglass upper part of girl's in thub chest art is covered with more bubbles
-- some voices/sounds during Toilet shots in Family mode [need to check which ones]

Well this suddenly became bad news bears for Zen and B/W titles. That means most classic titles (Paragon, Fathom, etc) with more risque artwork will be off the table...since boobs and stuff. Could you imagine Paragon artwork being redone to show less skin?

#126 69 days ago

The ESRB definitely made them take out the alcohol and tobacco references. (I personally don't care about those edits) I wonder if the ESRB directed them that the games were too sexy? Or did they edit that in anticipation of a comment? I can see why they want to maintain an E10 rating, so I won't fault them for that.

I'm sure PEGI reviewed it too. I don't know what their reviewing system is like though.

Having family mode on by default is whatever. Having the option to turn it on/off is nice, especially not putting it behind a BS "Pro" upgrade.

#127 69 days ago

The ESRB and Pegi don't make you remove anything. You can have those things in game, but they will give you a Mature rating and descriptors. Which can be bad for sales if you're selling a family friendly game. It would also prevent the game from showing up in online stores if someone's PS4/X1 has parental controls set for kids. Risque artwork would be ok to show skin, just not nudity as that would also trigger a Mature rating.

#128 69 days ago

Quick review on PS4

The good:
Graphics are sharp and vibrant
Bulb lighting temperature is spot on
Pinball FX animations are cool and well integrated.
Surround sound has been well mixed
Superior presentation of the license
Flyovers of the playfield are awesome
The ball looks like chrome.

The bad:
Physics: No matter what mode I play the tables feel like there’s a magnet at the bottom that’s dragging the ball. Or, like the table’s been pitched as high as it can go. Also, I’ve owned and repaired a real Getaway and you can back hand the ramp IRL. Not in Zen though.

Dynamic lighting:
Pretty much none. Pinball Arcade is still superior in this area.
Edit: When I f around with my TV and drop the gamma in Zen it’s a bit better.

Censorship:
I agree with the above post. Bullshit.

This is a quality product and I’m glad Zen acquired it but there’s a physic’s room for improvement.

#129 68 days ago
Quoted from Goalie:

The ESRB and Pegi don't make you remove anything. You can have those things in game, but they will give you a Mature rating and descriptors. Which can be bad for sales if you're selling a family friendly game. It would also prevent the game from showing up in online stores if someone's PS4/X1 has parental controls set for kids. Risque artwork would be ok to show skin, just not nudity as that would also trigger a Mature rating.

It would have got a Teen rating, rather than a Mature for those minor things.

#130 68 days ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

It would have got a Teen rating, rather than a Mature for those minor things.

There is variance per country and with the rules related to store-listings per platform.

#131 68 days ago

I'm fine with them 'censoring' things in the main PinballFX3 release however...

It would be nice if they could package the Williams tables as their own game, allow the uncensored content and have that application rated separately.

These tables are history and should be reproduced as accurately as possible.

#132 68 days ago
Quoted from anathematize:

I'm fine with them 'censoring' things in the main PinballFX3 release however...
It would be nice if they could package the Williams tables as their own game, allow the uncensored content and have that application rated separately.
These tables are history and should be reproduced as accurately as possible.

That's not going to happen. Basically setting up 2 different in game stores, there's no way they're going to do that. Not to mention they would have to pay royalties for setting up a second game.

#133 68 days ago
Quoted from Goalie:

That's not going to happen. Basically setting up 2 different in game stores, there's no way they're going to do that. Not to mention they would have to pay royalties for setting up a second game.

They would pay a royalty per game sold, so it's irrelevant if it's two different versions.

#134 68 days ago
Quoted from Goalie:

That's not going to happen. Basically setting up 2 different in game stores, there's no way they're going to do that. Not to mention they would have to pay royalties for setting up a second game.

i'm thinking the way FarSight did it with the Stern tables on Steam. I'm not sure about all the logistics and/or licensing nonsense... mostly spitballing. I just feel like its likely the only way they will put the uncensored tables in the game barring a full reconsideration on the rating of the game.

#135 68 days ago
Quoted from Sinestro:

They would pay a royalty per game sold, so it's irrelevant if it's two different versions.

No that’s not how it works. You pay your per game royalty but you also pay expensive upfront fees for the right to put games on platforms. You also pay maintenance fees per title.

#136 68 days ago

Really brief review. I played fish tales on th Xbox one earlier tonight.

I thought it was fun. I liked the visual effects they added, which if u don’t can be turned off with a button

I think th physics are more realistic then their other non Williams tables. The magnet comment above is probably on. I just felt like the bounce of rubber posts was a bit dead.... but I have to say i thought it was fun. I can only compare it to pinball arcade for iOS and I thought this was way superior to that. I know not a fair comparison, but I have to say that timeshock on iOS is amazing so it can be done.

Cost was $10 for the pack of 3 tables. Fish tales was free. I will likely pick up the other tables at some point.

Censorship.... I don’t like it.... but frankly if it allows more people to play it... probably an ok trade off.

#137 68 days ago

I only had a few minutes before work that i could play them but i thought they was pretty damn anazing looking and i like how they play. The ball physics arent as good as TPA probably but the nudging in TPA is just horrible and if you're good you can make a game last for hours and hours. You arent going to be able to do that with zen i dont think. All and all i think Zen did a much better job on these tables and i dont really care if some boobies are censored or a cigar etc, its just not a deal breaker to me at all.

#138 68 days ago

For me, ball physics on ps4 does not resemble real pinball.

#139 68 days ago
Quoted from mccorn:

For me, ball physics on ps4 does not resemble real pinball.

Thats because its not real pinball! Lol

Its impossible to have ball physics that are just like real pinball on a video game. Its not perfect i think we can all agree on that but these tables look amazing and i am glad that they are being made and for $3.33 cents a table, im going to support Zen studios and buy them. If a person cant get three dollars worth of fun out of these tables then theres something wrong with them.

#140 68 days ago

I don't have enough time in my day to play real pinball......

#141 68 days ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Thats because its not real pinball! Lol
Its impossible to have ball physics that are just like real pinball on a video game. Its not perfect i think we can all agree on that but these tables look amazing and i am glad that they are being made and for $3.33 cents a table, im going to support Zen studios and buy them. If a person cant get three dollars worth of fun out of these tables then theres something wrong with them.

I really don't like the censorship but I'll buy the games anyway. At least you get your money's worth. I'll add that their Deadpool is a better game than Stern's

#142 68 days ago

I believe the only version with updated physics is PC btw so for the console guys, try that version to see if you think they are any better.

The steam version they've updated the physics 3 times already based on the beta they had. I don't believe thre console received the same updates...

I have the switch version too and it really doesn't play as well either.

#143 68 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I believe the only version with updated physics is PC btw so for the console guys, try that version to see if you think they are any better.
The steam version they've updated the physics 3 times already based on the beta they had. I don't believe thre console received the same updates...
I have the switch version too and it really doesn't play as well either.

I thought it felt off compared to the vids that we've seen on the PC version. I wonder if they will apply the same physics to the console/mobile versions. There might be a hardware restriction on the consoles? Seems unlikely based on the games that have come out for each respective console thus far. I'll wait to see if it gets updated before buying any Zen tables.

#144 68 days ago

When is this supposed to hit android?

#145 68 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I believe the only version with updated physics is PC btw so for the console guys, try that version to see if you think they are any better.
The steam version they've updated the physics 3 times already based on the beta they had. I don't believe thre console received the same updates...
I have the switch version too and it really doesn't play as well either.

Ahhh, thanks for pointing this out. I've been playing on PC/STEAM and found the negative comments around physics surprising. It's not perfect, I hope they continue to improve it, but it's already much better than Pinball Arcade... Be sure to select the 'classic arcade' mode as well.

#146 68 days ago

I believe the reason why PC has better physics is b/c the patching process on console takes waaaaay longer due to the hoops they need to go through whereby steam they have much more freedom to update. Therefore you've seen consoles remain as is although I suspect that will change.

#147 68 days ago
Quoted from Reznnate:

Be sure to select the 'classic arcade' mode as well.

This is key. I was playing Fish Tales on my Switch and the physics felt much different between default vs arcade mode. The ball bounced around more and was harder to catch in classic arcade mode.

#148 68 days ago
Quoted from delt31:

I believe the reason why PC has better physics is b/c the patching process on console takes waaaaay longer due to the hoops they need to go through whereby steam they have much more freedom to update. Therefore you've seen consoles remain as is although I suspect that will change.

Not really, that's the way it used to be. If you're just patching fixes and not adding content it goes through certification really fast.

#149 67 days ago

I can’t get Tpa to run on Steam at all now. It just crashes out and no error, nothing. Anybody else having this? DX9 and DX11

#150 67 days ago
Quoted from Goalie:

No that’s not how it works. You pay your per game royalty but you also pay expensive upfront fees for the right to put games on platforms. You also pay maintenance fees per title.

Based on your logic, Farsight is paying double to have Stern titles in the Pinball Arcade and the Stern Pinball Arcade.

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