(Topic ID: 357083)

Zaccaria Universe - Stuck in reset loop

By SiN13

52 days ago


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#1 52 days ago

Hi, EM noob here. So I joined the Zaccaria club back in December with a Zaccaria Universe. Bought it at auction, probably spent way too much and was sold on it being in better condition than it is. I really wanted to pick up an EM so I could learn to work on one of these things. When we got it home and plugged it in it worked pretty well, had some various quirks with some of the lighting and one of the drop targets. It sat unplayed for 5 months, fast forward to today, I've moved it down to the basement with our other games and went to start it up and it's getting stuck in some kind of post credit / pre player start loop.

Once a credit is on the machine is when the issue begins. I don't know what you call it but the 8 disc code wheel in the cabinet keeps cycling, I can also hear the sound of something cycling in the backbox. The 2 drop target coils on the right keep firing over and over, and the 2 drop target coils on the left seem to be stuck to on so I tend to turn it off after a few seconds as to not burn them out.

So here I am, I told myself I wanted to learn EM maintenance but I'm fighting the feelings of regret. I guess does any of this behavior point to anything specific or any advice on where to start looking? I have no experience reading wiring diagrams for these things so I am coming at this a total EM noob. My biggest concern is some loose metal debris like a screw or washer shifted during the move and fell into something bridging a switch or something but it's probably something else. I know a couple guys in my local league that work on EMs so I might ask them to come by and give it a look. Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

#2 52 days ago
Quoted from frisbez:

You should probably start a new thread in the EM section for this.
How are you adding credits? When you add one does it continue to add more?

I add credits by activating the switches at the base of the coin door. I think the left slot is 5 Francs, the right is 10 Francs. 2 clicks on the left or one on the right lights up player 1 on the back box and then the reset loop starts. It's hard for me to me tell if adding more credits is doing anything.

#3 52 days ago

Played around and did some simple trial an error testing. This only seems to occur when the middle connector between the cabinet and backbox are connected, and when there is a ball in the trough.

The repeated clicking sound I was hearing in the backbox appears to be the coil/relay for player 1 and 2 reset.

#4 52 days ago
Quoted from SiN13:

Played around and did some simple trial an error testing. This only seems to occur when the middle connector between the cabinet and backbox are connected, and when there is a ball in the trough.
The repeated clicking sound I was hearing in the backbox appears to be the coil/relay for player 1 and 2 reset.

Sounds like the game doesn't know the P1 and P2 score reels are at 0. Are they?

I added a picture of the switches that will keep the score motor running. Sounds like your reset relay keeps trying to reset the score reels and isn't sure they are at 0. I would also check the bonus unit and see if it's not resetting bonus to 0 correctly.

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#5 52 days ago
Quoted from frisbez:

Sounds like the game doesn't know the P1 and P2 score reels are at 0. Are they?
I added a picture of the switches that will keep the score motor running. Sounds like your reset relay keeps trying to reset the score reels and isn't sure they are at 0. I would also check the bonus unit and see if it's not resetting bonus to 0 correctly.
[quoted image]

P1 and P2 are at 0. I can manually advance the reels and it resets them to 0 but then the reset coil keeps on firing. I'm not sure what and where the bonus unit is that you mention. Right now I'm only poking around in the backbox so I don't know if that is in the cabinet. I'm not sure what to look out for outside of disconnected wires, shorts, leaf switches not making contact.

And sorry when it comes to the wiring schematic I'm new to that, but I do have the full thing on hand and I'm slowly learning to read it.

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#6 52 days ago
Quoted from SiN13:

P1 and P2 are at 0. I can manually advance the reels and it resets them to 0 but then the reset coil keeps on firing. I'm not sure what and where the bonus unit is that you mention. Right now I'm only poking around in the backbox so I don't know if that is in the cabinet. I'm not sure what to look out for outside of disconnected wires, shorts, leaf switches not making contact.
And sorry when it comes to the wiring schematic I'm new to that, but I do have the full thing on hand and I'm slowly learning to read it.[quoted image][quoted image]

P3 and P4 are not at 0 in your pic. Do they reset?

There should be another relay in the back box that pulls in to reset them, activated by a switch on the reset relay in the bottom of the cabinet.

The bonus unit is a stepper unit on the underside of the playfield. Probably not related to your current issue

#7 52 days ago
Quoted from frisbez:

P3 and P4 are not at 0 in your pic. Do they reset?
There should be another relay in the back box that pulls in to reset them, activated by a switch on the reset relay in the bottom of the cabinet.
The bonus unit is a stepper unit on the underside of the playfield. Probably not related to your current issue

P3 and P4 never reset, the relay for it is the one in the upper left corner in the backbox, the one below it is the P1 and P2 reset that keeps firing.

#8 52 days ago

The last 2 cams on the score motor are the impulse cams. The switches on these cams are responsible for pulsing those 2 reset relays. Clean and inspect all 4 of those switches and adjust if needed.

#9 52 days ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

The last 2 cams on the score motor are the impulse cams. The switches on these cams are responsible for pulsing those 2 reset relays. Clean and inspect all 4 of those switches and adjust if needed.

I think you are on to something. If I manually pulse the P3 and P4 reset relay several times the reels eventually reset and the game calms down. What's the proper way to clean these switches, alcohol and some fine grit sand paper? I'm guessing I unscrew the switch stack and take them off to do so. I also noticed on the switch stack for the 3rd cam (2) the nylon spacer has been melted and fused to the one above it which is probably not great either.

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#10 52 days ago

I stay away from sandpaper. It can leave grit behind if it isn’t removed either with air or alcohol. If the points are pitted sandpaper won’t help. My personal preference is a metal ignition points file. Just a couple quick swipes is usually enough to clean switches. I rarely unscrew switch stacks for switch cleaning. The melted spacer might have happened from heat from a bad switch connection or the coil that it pulses has a hard time working. The spacer might be dislodged by the heat of a solder iron tip for a new one to be installed. The spacer size should be the same as the bottom spacer on the cam next to it. Alignment of the switch stack switches by loosening the screws slightly and straightening the switch blades in a straight row then retightening the screws helps the switches operate better.
If the switch cleaning doesn’t help the 3rd & 4th player relay start pulsing, then the jones plug connection and the relay coil resistance check would be next.

#11 52 days ago

I also advise not using sandpaper.

In a pinch a paper (non-glossy) business card works pretty well for cleaning them, bonus for adding a bit of isopropyl alcohol to it. (just make sure not to leave any behind)

#12 52 days ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

I stay away from sandpaper. It can leave grit behind if it isn’t removed either with air or alcohol. If the points are pitted sandpaper won’t help. My personal preference is a metal ignition points file. Just a couple quick swipes is usually enough to clean switches. I rarely unscrew switch stacks for switch cleaning. The melted spacer might have happened from heat from a bad switch connection or the coil that it pulses has a hard time working. The spacer might be dislodged by the heat of a solder iron tip for a new one to be installed. The spacer size should be the same as the bottom spacer on the cam next to it. Alignment of the switch stack switches by loosening the screws slightly and straightening the switch blades in a straight row then retightening the screws helps the switches operate better.
If the switch cleaning doesn’t help the 3rd & 4th player relay start pulsing, then the jones plug connection and the relay coil resistance check would be next.

Well I might be making some progress. It seems to be resetting all the scores now and getting out of the loop, though I feel like I saw the reset loop happen again or at least struggle a bit to get everything reset at least once during testing. Once the score motor finally stops I still hear a coil buzz in the backbox. When I check everything back there I see the relay for 100 points in the lower left is engaged and whichever is the current player it's 100 point score reel coil is also energized. Also thank you all for the help so far, I feel like I'm slowly learning how to debug this thing.

#13 51 days ago

Once the reset gets completed the playfield gets powered up and will start looking for any closed scoring switches. Check all 100 point scoring switches until you find switch(s) that’s closed.
Try not to allow the 100 point relay to stay engaged very long, burnt coils will result.

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