(Topic ID: 246987)

Zaccaria Universe scoring problems

By padarjohn

6 days ago

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  • 10 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 hours ago by padarjohn
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#1 6 days ago

I have a Universe that used to work well, but it's started having scoring issues.

The initial problem I started chasing was that the 1,000 pt score was inconsistent. There are drop targets that are supposed to score 5,000, and they will score anywhere from nothing to a random value between 1,000 - 5,000. Ditto the bonus - always a random value. The player doesn't matter, so it's not the score reel. To me, that indicates the 1,000 pt relay in the head. It looks OK, and manually engaging it always seems to work fine.

But while I was checking I noticed a second issue, which is more consistent...

The 100 pt relay engages and stays energized. I've seen a couple of threads on Zaccaria machines with a similar issue, but no resolution.

If someone can give me a clue where to look, on the schematic or otherwise, I'd appreciate it very much.

#2 6 days ago

I would trying to solve the 100 point relay issue first. It may be affecting other things. I'd recommend checking all switches that score 100 points to see if one is stuck closed. BTW...I have the one player version..Ten Stars.

#3 5 days ago

Hi padarjohn +
a great site --- here http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com/em/index.html on the left click on "Games and Documentation" and there are many schematics. The schematics "Universe" is in 5 pages nicely overlapping but not page-4 and page-5. See the top of the JPG (here) - please confirm "I can draw as connecting lines 'my red lines' " --- or write / show a JPG (taken with an mobile phone camera): "Some stuff is missing at end of page-4 / beginning of page-5 respectively".

You must fix Your "second issue" --- a general rule is "a coil on a relay or unit is allowed to faulty, constantly pull for 1 to 2 minutes - we then must toggle-off and let the coil cool down - otherwise the coil overheats, get destroyed --- and we must buy an new coil".
See the bottom of the JPG - when a plunger is moved on a Score-Drum (on most): The travelling plunger at end of travel opens a switch to cut feeding electricity to the "Coil on 100-Point-RELAY". Greetings Rolf

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#4 5 days ago
Quoted from rolf_martin_062:

Hi padarjohn +
please confirm "I can draw as connecting lines 'my red lines' " --- or write / show a JPG (taken with an mobile phone camera): "Some stuff is missing at end of page-4 / beginning of page-5 respectively".

I'm not sure I understand. I have the schematic from the zaccaria-pinball site. It's not easy to find things, even when they're labeled. And some aren't. In the segment you highlighted, for instance, there are two unlabeled switches, one on either side of the "100-pt unit" switch.

If I understand your second paragraph, the end-of-stroke switch on the 100-pt score reel relay is supposed to break the circuit to the 100-pt relay. I'll check that.

#5 4 days ago

Hi padarjohn
I agree with You on "the drawing of the schematics in not very good" --- but I am glad this site exists: http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com/em/index.html .

See the JPG here --- upper part: I will put a gap in my copy and add ??? and add "stuff missing ?" in the gap. (((I think that nothing is missing - but there is a little chance of "missing")))

In post-4 You mentioned "two unlabeled switches" - see the JPG here, lower part: I added "Gottlieb text" --- You kind of agreed and wrote "will check the E.O.S.-Switch on the Score-Reel". Greetings Rolf

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#6 2 days ago

Thank you, Rolf. Sorry for the long delay, other things came up that kept me away from this problem.

Now I understand. It's actually quite simple, the end-of-stroke switches on all 4 100-pt score reels are simply all wired in series. So the only way for the 100-pt relay to stay active is for a playfield switch to be stuck, or for the EOS switch to not close. And, in fact, when I looked closer, the 100-pt drum solenoid wasn't activating, meaning, of course, that the EOS switch is never closed. Which has to be related to the player unit. And now, of course, after poking on that for a minute it's working fine.

My other big problem was the bonus not scoring correctly, and the 5,000 pt events not scoring correctly. I had thought they were related and associated with the score motor, since in both cases it involves advancing the 1,000 pt score reel multiple time. But it looks like I actually have separate issues:

If I manually step up the bonus unit it advances by one until it reaches the maximum of 10 steps. But then when I do the same with the step-down (reset) solenoid it sometimes skips multiple teeth on the gear, moving several positions at once. There's probably something sticking in the ratchet mechanism, hopefully I'll figure that out soon.

Meanwhile, if anyone can explain how the 5,000-pt relay and the score motor work together, it might help me fix that problem, too.

And there are two other similar units under the playfield. I assume one is the "extra ball unit", but I don't know which it is, nor what the other one is. Neither is labeled, and I don't have a copy of the manual (and haven't been able to find one online). Do youknow what they are? I can post a picture if it would help.

#7 1 day ago

Hi padarjohn
to "Bonus Unit faulty resetting" --- You do have some more EM-Pins. Ask a friend to press the Replay-Button and You look how the Replay-Counter steps down a step --- actually two halfsteps --- one tooth pulled back frees the gear BUT another tooth mooves-in to hinder "rushing all the way down". Then look in the "Universe Pin" for sticky grease etc.

The schematics gives me some headaches - before I dig-in into the Drop-Target-Points problem some questions --- here https://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2706&picno=37539&zoom=1 on the bottom of the picture I see "Outlanes give 5000 points, Inlanes give 500 points" and on top of the picture I see "100 500 1000 5000 10'000 points when lit" ---
do You always get (reliable) the 500 points, 5000 points ?

From where do You have the information "Drop-Target is worth 5000 points ?

Some units under the playfield --- can we see them in one of the ipdb-pictures ? --- In the "Lights section of the schematics" I see drawn three units --- can You go by "color of wires" and match schematics and "units under the playfield" ? Greetings Rolf

#8 3 hours ago

I figured out what was happening with the bonus unit. I've attached some pictures to help explain.
Part of the ratcheting mechanism rotates on a shaft. There's a groove around the shaft where one might have a 'C' clip to hold the assembly in place. In this case, however, they attached a spring there and it holds the parts in alignment.
The spring had moved out of the groove, allowing the parts to become slightly misaligned. You can see in the picture where the spring is supposed to be, and where it was when it was behaving badly.

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#9 3 hours ago

Regarding the units under the playfield that I haven't identified, I have a picture of the bottom side. If you can tell from the picture that would help. But if not, it's not important right now.
This is the sort of thing that would normally be described in the manual, but unfortunately I don't have one, and I haven't been able to find one anywhere online yet.
IMG_20190716_154408 (resized).jpg

#10 3 hours ago

I seem to have a power issue. Sometimes the playfield lights will flicker, and there are times when the kick-out solenoids on the ball return and the special hole at the top of the playfield don't have enough power to kick the ball out.
I don't see anything in the schematics other than the transformer. Could it be a difference in line frequency (60hz vs 50hz)? Let me know if you have any suggestions.
And thank you very much for your help.

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