The problem here is that you wasting your game time/life playing IM

I don't understand this. If you can perform a bangback without tilting (and surely that's the idea), then what's the problem? A short, sharp nudge to the front of the machine that doesn't cause a tilt is perfectly acceptable if the ball is about to hit the top of the slingshot, so why is it suddenly going to damage the machine if the ball is rolling along the apron? Not trying to be argumentative, just genuinely confused by this.

You're right. People absolutely make me shake my head. Ever seen how people treat a rental property?

Exactly what I was going to say. That would actually make a great t-shirt.

-Steve

And that would be fine. However, I can't recall any game where the balls would just "shake out" of a physical lock with a "good shove". I did admit I made assumptions...

The game in question had factory software that ejects all balls from the lock(s) on tilt. it had nothing to do with force, and everything to do with the tilt state coming on.

"Nudging" is part of the game - it is what makes pinball what it is. "Tilting" is the penalty for taking it too far.

I know a collector who refuses to nudge or allow anyone to nudge his pins at all - needless to say not many people take him up on his offer to host. While everyone can set the rules for their pins - that just voids the fun - might as well play a video game. However, bang-backs, and walking someone else's pins (no tilt bob) across the floor is a serious faux-pas. I nudge when playing but I always ask the host first and in the event that pins have back-boxes that are almost touching, I make certain to adjust my nudging accordingly so as to not rub the games together. Hitting someone else' pin in frustration (no matter how slight) is also a no-no. Hitting your own pins in frustration sometimes happens though. Swearing at pins while swilling a few beers with your amigos (before, during or after tilting - now that's pinball baby)!

Keep on flippin and nudging guys-n-gals.

bang backs are specifically illegal in the competitions i've been in.

Pretty close:

http://www.ddpinball.com/shirts/tilting-is-trying-shirt

That is great info that I don't remember from the podcast. I think that turns tilting into a valid strategy for that machine.

Nudging and tilting are not abusing a game whether it's a HUO machine or not. Slap saves are not abusive either. Now bangbacks and death saves are abusive as well as slamming the lockdown bar, glass, coin door and picking the game up and dropping it (seen at a show tournament on a game someone brought).

Nudging is part of the game if you are playing to win. Do it with respect and not abuse!

My view is that anybody who starts a thread like this is probably at best a poor pinball player and at worst doesn't understand the game at all.

Nudging has always been part of pinball history and tilting is punished in different ways.

Way back in 1949 the tilt forfeit was introduced.

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"In my house I remove the Tilt mechs out of the game". - Gary Stern

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And you never will be if you refuse to nudge. It's a basic skill that quickly separates the wheat from the chaff.

God, I wish more of my friends were on here and could vouch for how many times I've walked a ball back up an outlane without tilting. The move would probably make all the watertight-butthole collectors have a heart attack. It basically involves a very rapid shaking of the machine left to right and looks far more violent than it really is. I've done it for YEARS and never damaged anything, and very rarely tilted out on an actual reasonably set tilt (Read: Not PAPA-style.).

I get the worry about "abuse" of a game...I really do...but you're NOT going to damage a pin by moving it a half an inch, or even 6 inches. If I had a dollar for every time my wife has slid Metallica more than a foot, I'd have enough money to replace the damaged FLOORING underneath it! Tilting is just fine. Kicking a game, picking it up and dropping it, keying the cabinet? That's crossed the line.

Nudging the machine trying to extend your game is an imperative skill, straddling the line between a danger warning and a nudge or slide or whatever that saves your ball is key to becoming a better player and you are bound to pick up a tilt here or there.

for example, the other week at a monthly tournament I was on a danger but walked a ball out of the left outlane and picked up a second danger but saved the ball, went on to score high on that ball and beat a top 50 player in the world because I rocked the machine but did not tilt. If i tilted, atleast I tried to save my ball. You have to be willing to test the limits of the machine and know what you can get away with.

Rage Tilting is a no no imo but it happens aswell, and I think the machines can take that abuse but its just not necessary and has no real value (other than letting out some anger I guess ha)

At home or on location I will move machines around but when im playing in another collectors collection I am pretty soft on their machines out of respect

Hey, when you have all the facts things become clear. No douchebaggery there. Just manipulation (the good kind) of the games rules.

I-fork-T

Thanks Cayle!

What you described is an up nudge. Something that IS perfectly acceptable.

This is a bang back :
http://funwithbonus.com/new-pinball-dictionary-bang-back/

"Any players who attempt this maneuver are risking sprained or broken wrists and damage to the pinball machine."

at home is where I usually throw my games around. It's everywhere else i'm more gentle. Usually because, at home i'm just screwing around. Anywhere else is for a tournament or league. So it's a little more important, not to tilt out.

Yeah I'm gentle with public machines, just ingrained in my head back in the day. The rough dude that owned an arcade would give you a kick in the ass and throw you out for that, arcades were seedy when I was a kid. I don't play competitively and I don't take it that seriously, so even at home I never tilt, or very very rarely, I nudge a little but only if I was having a very good game.

You don't have to be aggressive to nudge the game enough to save the ball. I'm constantly giving little nudges to direct the bounce off the top of a slingshot, for example. I rarely tilt. I did tighten up the bob on my games when a friend of mine kept going super aggro, but not because he was going to hurt the game, but because I wanted him to learn finesse, as his "nudging" was causing him as many drains as it was saving him. But nobody is going to ruin a game by nudging or pulling or even doing a bang back (though they might ruin their wrist that way). Remember, the game is loaded with different switches designed to shut down the game in the event somebody is being abusive (think rowdy drunks in a bar at 11:30 at night).

Nudging is fun, and has been part of pinball since the beginning. Tilting is nudging without finesse. If I don't get a tilt every once in a while, I definitely feel like I'm not applying myself quite enough.

That page does nothing to explain how a bangback is going to damage a machine or why they are treated differently to any other nudge. On the contrary, the video shows several bangbacks which are clearly not going to cause damage and which don't even trigger tilt warnings. I regularly see much more violent slap saves in competition which don't attract any censure.

If nudging damages your machine, I suggest you do some repair work to get that game up to par. Hard nudging is one way I shake out the flaws on my games to make them bulletproof.

part of any nudging strategy is to a have sense of how tight the tilt is (and ideally how many warnings), and to also know how critical the end of ball bonus is to scoring. Some games save up a lot of the big points and pay them out at the bonus and it can be quite painful to have a great ball, tilt out and, well, maybe turn it into not a great ball.

Exactly. Tilting can have huge ramifications, particularly when you are playing in a competitive situation. In fact, tilt warning are so important that in our league we will tell the other players if we see they received a warning. Normally, this would be the responsibility of the player, but it is usually so loud from all the games being played that you can't hear the warning. It only seems fair that someone be aware of the fact that they received a warning.

Most folks in our league (well, my former league, i am league-less at the moment) would do this, some will also tell you about shots you should go for, when they know the rules and know you don't. Of course then there is the opposite guy who AFTER your ball is over says "if you had hit that target you would have scored 10 billion points".