Mark that game finished and you are entering a world of pain.
C'mon Walter, it's Gary so his toe slipped over.
This is not Nam, this is pinball, there are rules and they should be finished, am I wrong here?
Doesn't anybody finish the rules anymore?

Hahahaha.

I was thinking the first post would be a Stern sympathetic with something like
"Shut the f**k up, Cobray"

Love my ACDC...don't really give a shit what Mr. Cobray has to say. You are not invited to my house to play my unfinished ACDC-haha!

I have bought these NIB's from stern
Avatar - Open but new. No issues
Spidey - Open but new. No issues
Tron Le - No issues.
Transformers Autobots - Air balls but fixed quickly by stern.
Tron Pro - No issues
IM pro - No issues
AC/DC le - just had to shave ramp a little for cannon clearance.
X-Men Le - No issues as far as anything broken or not working besides code update needed.
it does seem that X is suffering from many small issues though according to the new owners in the fix thread.
I'm glad we have Stern though.

5/7 of his games are Sterns & 2/5 are unfinished so the OP has a point & credibility.

TF, Tron, ACDC & XM are all unfinished indeed who can argue that?

WOF? Ha!

Avatar LE doesn't march as advertised, TF doesn't transform.... BDK?

Still fun but when you fork out enough cash to buy a new Mercedes Benz on a fleet of unfinished Sterns with stupid QC issues it's OK to complain.

You're ridiculous. It's totally fine if you hate the games or if they all suck to you. But most them are finished.

Tron is very polished and totally finished. That doesn't mean that there couldn't be improvements - nothing cant be improved. But it's done. You look silly putting this down as a "is not finished".

Also this game is finished. All features are implemented, there are no known bugs. The game is finished. Just because you want more from the ruleset doesn't mean it's not finished. Finishing code does not mean scanning the internet for every possible feature request and implementing it. No company does that - nor should they feel they need to. Again, could it be improved? Yes, for sure. But it is definitely finished and feels as such.

Yea, this one needs an update. But they are actively working on it. You realize programmers don't pull code out of their butts right? It takes time, effort, and lots of play testing.

This one is terrible right now. I admit it. In fact, I refuse to play it until it's updated. But there will for sure be updates. It's not a question of "if" or if you've been screwed. You will get an update for this. Yes, I have a big wish list for this, but it's not like I expect it to be exactly how I want it. They will make it how they think it should be, and that's where it will end.

I can. Tron and TF are finished. Again, finishing something isn't adding every feature *you* may want.

And? Not being great doesn't mean finished. How are they going to add software to make the game transform? This is a completely different issue than non finished games.

Totally finished and a decent game.

You are missing a lot of beer...your loss!

Settle down Markmon, I have Sterns too

The Avatar/TF mechanical commentary was not a software reference you are correct. It was an example of the shaft given to buyers.

BDK is cool & on my wish list. Avatar gets no love but I dig the theme & simplicity. Still, they didn't deliver on the LE promises. Tron is a great theme, love it.... But I think it could be better.

Dude, TF needs some TLC for sure. I'd still get one if space/money allowed of course though.

Still, the games I listed *in my opinion* are either incomplete or not as advertised.

You do know I will own the very games I point out faults on right? I prefer Stern for some reason even though they piss me off big time lately.

This topic should be finished.

I think this is a big problem. How do you release a game when the code isn't finished? If they have lot's of test playing, they should realize the code needs work.

There is a bug in Transformers...it's a stink bug!!!!!

I too wish Stern would get the coding right on the machines they release and provide regular and timely updates. It is disapointing to say the least. That said, Stern doesn't make money on code, they make money selling product...so they have made a decision to push product out the door and then tweak the code on popular games (that is what it seems to me anyway).

I have no doubt that eventually Tron, XMen, and AC/DC will be as complete as SM is. TF, Avatar, WOF and all the other less sought after games will never be looked at again...that is a business decision Stern has made.

Theres an AC/DC pro at our local movie theatre (Cointaker does the gaming) and it was shut off today. Not sure if it broke or what but I fired her back up!

There was no shaft. There's nothing listed in transformers feature list on the product that went for sale that said "transforming toys". Anyone that ordered it went in knowing that. So how we're those folks shafted? As for avatar, not sure what the issue is there. Nothing seems incomplete. It's not a masterpiece, but I actually miss mine.

I bought a TFLE and sold it after playing a few hundred games. I didn't feel shafted. But there were better games to sit in my limited space. Ill rebuy it if my second level goes in. As for avatar, pretty much the same thing. To be honest, I miss transformers and avatar more than I play most my Bally Williams collection. There's a good chance I'll have to thin the herd there.

I realize pinside doesn't like it, but people are allowed to have negative criticism for Stern. I just wish we could meet more in the middle when discussing new Sterns, not so much knee-jerk like crazy and have to choose between being in the "dry hump Stern's leg" or the "take a shit on his chest" camps.

With that said, AC/DC Premium even unfinished is slowly creeping its way to being my favorite Stern. That's with features missing! It's been mentioned Tron's code is finished, and I have to agree it seems pretty much all there when I play it. I'm not sure what is missing from Transformers either, but that game is long as hell and I haven't been able to even complete more than 3 non-mb modes in one game.

...but you also have history such as Wheel of Fortune...and BDK that took FOREVER...and from what is being posted, X-Men is barely existent at launch from the sounds of it (which honestly if the code is that undone, did they need to push this game out before the code was a tad more complete?...what was the point of releasing it so soon?). Friends also have to deal with the low quality QA/QC, but also rave about the customer service. So if we strip away the dramatics, there does seem to be a lot of room for improvement. Yah know?

You guys need to be a tad more rational. Smoke a bowl or something before discussing pinball.

code costs money to work on (yes). However, since code is downloadable (and installable by consumers), it costs nothing to implement on their end (other than some next to nothing cost of server space and a web guy). I've worked at companies where there was a costly recall, and each unit had to be manually re-programmed at the factory. Also, EVERY normal company (with an engineering department anyway) is always focusing on improvements based on customer returns and production fallout.

Stern is in sort of an odd situation. I doubt they take returns, and where most companies will produce the same product for years, once stern makes it's couple month production run, that's it.

You don't have to like the guy's opinion, but if he bought the game and he's unhappy with it, you have to at least respect him for saying it. There are probably many others who are less than happy, but don't want to say anything and have it reduce the value of something they paid a lot for.

I for one pre-ordered TFLE and I feel very ripped off because we were promised a lot of things that never got implemented. It's been discussed in great detail and anyone that says there was no shaft is as big of a liar as Stern is and they are just trying to stir shit.

WRONG!!!!!!

Shoot the Starscream ramp, if the ball falls out into the left orbit and your next shot is the right orbit, it WILL NOT count a lit shot as it should.

This is a bug. It is known. I have repeated it. BUG!

-AMP suit does not "march" as it should with the two foot coils unique to the LE. When the gate goes down and AMP Battle begins, the suit should stomp *left foot*.....*right foot*....*left foot*...repeat...maybe with some quick *left right left* stomps mixed in.

-Light Unobtanium insert does not light during gameplay as it should (it should be on and then turn off once you've hit the target twice, lighting the Unobtanium outlane inserts)

-The Link insert/flashers should pulse when you're 1 hit from Multiball (The AMP does this, Link should too)

The rules are good in Avatar and there are no bugs...but these 3 little things would really bring it all home. There's a chance it will happen, too! *wink wink wink*

It doesn't matter what Stern does good or bad people just crap all over them.

*cough cough*

-Tumbling All-Spark Cube
-Extra spinner
-Glowing red Megatron eyes

*cough cough*

All those things were on the feature list that sold us on the game....not to mention other things that Gomez discussed at PPE such as "orange" (DMD) QR codes, seamless transition between custom movie voices & fake voices, transforming upper playfield, date specific Easter Eggs, a secret "robot dance party", etc...

I crap my money at them.

Bupkis!

Dan

Gomez has lost a lot of his street cred...so to speak. If his next game is a disappointment he will have burned through the rest of the customers good will. It is make or break time for him now.

Well, the possible upside of the Transformers debacle is that he might make Avengers the coolest game ever. I kinda don't wanna buy any more NIB games, though, so I hope I'm wrong...lol.

See I don't understand this. I remember seeing the feature list when the preorders came up and none of these things were listed.

As for the one transformers bug you pointed out that I never saw, that certainly is not serious enough to bitch that TF is "unfinished". But cool that you knew about this

The avatar stuff may make more sense to me if I ever saw the LE. Do any of those things also apply to the pro?

Certainly none of this warrants all the bitching "stern never finishes their games".

I see it differently:
- all games except WoF get finished
- all current games are finished except acdc and xmen.
- TFLE may be a disappointment but it got finished
- acdc is not yet finished, that sucks but it will be.
- xmen LE is not yet playable. That sucks.
- It sucks stern releases the games as unfinished as say xmen was.

My reward is starting to be somewhat convinced that your Stern bashing and hating is completely warranted!

In a way this kind of stuff is helpful as Stern used to be the only game in town but with the advent of JJP, that is about to change. It then becomes more important for Stern to listen to their customer base.

You bought games that you knew were incomplete, now your bitching that your games aren't complete.

Tron is done, it's never enough for some people. ACDC is coming soon. You haven't given them a chance on X-Men. Transformers is what it is but I think you are bring a bit of a drama queen.

yeh Drama Queen as these games do not require serious amounts of cash and according to some we should expect these issues. - I call BS on this. The games should be released working with proper code. The code updates should be minor to correct minor flaws. Since the SAM system Stern's initial code releases are junk.

Look if we felt Stern was giving us a fair shake then maybe there would be a lot less bitching. I do not care what Gary Stern says about the home market and that the operators are where they make money. Without us buying games Stern would not be in business.

How do you release something that doesn't work correctly? And then you give them an excuse like "they didn't have enough time"? They did that to themselves when they released an INCOMPLETE game.

Wow - the guy has an opinion. Back off. Transformers is a disaster. Acdc unfinished. Holy grail. Ha. Pos. xmen half baked. Let people have an opinion. I agree with the OP. why are people so quick to jump down his throat. No one hold sterns feet to the fire and are so quick to give a pass and not hold them to a standard. Schmuck customers. Ok the games are finished. A putz and his money. Enjoy, sheep. Just because you can play a game does not indicate complete rules and when a designer says it needs work who is more in a position to make that decision?

Some games just fall short of expectations like many other things in life. Yes TF and other could be better and can use an update. How they let a game like X-Men out of the factory with the crap code that is in it now is beyond me. Yes it will be fixed somewhat but just like the TF update dont expect much IMO. There will be many "Stern could of did this" "Stern could of did that" "I hear they are going to update the code more in a few months". If you dont like a game get rid of it. We all have high expectations for every new game bc we want pinball to be "ALL IT CAN BE" and the Fact is....it is what it is....

I like Stern games, but in my opinion they are releasing one too many games per year. Take more time on the machines before pushing them out the door. Get the QC and code better and get the reputation and respect for building quality games. Customer service ratings would go way up too. Everything just seems so rushed right now.

If Stern made cars, it would drive and the brakes MIGHT work, but you'd have a flaky radio, no headlights, and the seats would not be adjustable.

The themes Sterm is picking works for ops and homeowners. That becomes the uber heartbreak. When the once in a lifetime TF theme is "finally" here for some and there it goes. So for xmen fans this is it and now the heartbreak. Acdc loyal - boom. The Tronicon folks waited 25 years for a pin, you bet they want it perfect like tron himself. Collecting has emotion, which is great for a hobby. Sucks to be told to lower your standards or get another hobby.

I only got to play it twice can I come by and play it?
I can bring my Dremel.

Tron is fine as is. No tweaks needed. I am very happy with that game.

What Stern is to pinball, IKEA is to funiture. You know what you're going to get. By now, this shouldn't be news to anybody. Always set your expectations very low, and you won't be too dissapointed.

How do I light that extra ball insert on the Pro?

Lots of thumbs down/up's going on in this thread; im gonna jump into the pirana water and see what comes my way

TRANSFORMERS: I almost bought into the negative hype that came from the few select crowd. And i'll agree, transformers was the hardest of my 6 sterns to dial in. But once i dialed it in, i realized its a top 3 stern (even with the OP ruleset - Rumored code soon to be released!) and those select TF bashers are on crack. So get out and leave my TF alone lol - i was a preorder buyer too if anyone is counting.

Its crazy how much influence these forums have on people who do not own the game. They buy in to not only the positive hype, but even the negative, especially when it comes to Stern. I appreciate the OP's feedback esp since he owns some sterns, but i would take TRON, TF, ACDC, XMEN over some of my old school favorites (TAF, TZ, MM, AFM...ok maybe wouldnt take acdc over AFM, but the other 3 i would lol ).

Anyway, point is, these are exciting times for pinball despite the prices, and im glad stern is putting out good, fun, quality (yes i said quality because after 6 nib's i still havent seen anything ridiculously underquality) games, If they werent here we'd have to be recycling through the old bunch of games that are starting to feel like classic rock songs - yea theyre cool and all, but Just because its classic, doesnt mean its still good.

I will not be buying ANY NIB game until it is proven as working like it should/ as advertised. I guess that means I am not an early adapter for pinball. 6-7k is a LOT of money to me personally and I EXPECT any product I spend that kind of cash on to work perfectly when new from the maker.

I also expect that if it not working perfectly that the seller will do everything in there power to fix it ASAP.

I have no heartbreak. Would I have liked the code to be more complete, absolutely. Am I going to nerd rage all over the place because I may have to stick a USB stick in the machine in a couple weeks to get it updated, not really. If the biggest disappointment in someone's life is that they feel heartbreak by their own overhyped expectations for a pinball machine they must have a really sweet life otherwise.

This is accurate. Do two wrongs make a right? It was wrong for them to release games in that state, yet it was okay for you to buy them?

You're so unhappy yet you keep them in business by buying their games? Which is it? They can't suck THAT bad if you keep shelling out for them, can they?

Because he keeps buying them. After the first time he got "screwed" he knew what he was in for, and he did it anyway. Now he's bitching.

If this were true, and Stern released cars that way you'd buy a Chevy, Honda, Toyota, BMW, Kia, Ford, Rang Rover, Porsche. Who else are you going to buy a pinball from? Jersey Jack might be an option when he starts shipping but until then your analogy is pointless.

Finally some rationality. If you don't like them, don't buy them. Just don't shell out game after game and then pretend you're being worked over.

OP: I would understand if you weren't a pinball guy and it was your first NIB and this happened. But you have 7 games so you are more than just the casual hobbyist. You've heard of Wheel Of Fortune and how it was never finished. You've heard of SM and how it took two years. You've heard of BDK and how it took years as well.

You bought the games knowing Stern has a history of either not completing the game at all or taking years to do it.

Yah, it sucks, but don't pretend like you didn't know exactly what you were getting yourself into.

Buying a first run of a new pinball machine is a bit of a gamble for sure, especially at the price of an LE. Generally if you want an LE at a decent price, you have to early adopt and hope it all works out. If you are not wanting to be an early adopter, then definitely wait a few months and wait for reviews, early bugs to be worked out, revisions of software then buy a NIB pro, or pay way more than the early adopters for an LE.