Time Fantasy
Williams, 1983Quoted from goingincirclez:How does this look as a suitable relay?
Yes.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5792-10818-02
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5791-12235-02
Add two of these connectors to the relay and connect it to the old wires with a Z connector, your done.
Man looks great! Not sure if you already have them but Titan have glow in the dark rubbers/flippers. Also have you tried Comets uv/blacklight bulbs? They're not the brightest but if you have that overhead uv bulb maybe try them under the slings?
Thanks for those links Grumpy. I was searching around the web last night for a few minutes and hadn't yet found those. My code guru pointed out the GI relay also cuts off steady-state during tilt (duh I totally forgot about this, I've only tilted the machine once or twice ha ha), so I should be able to build the circuit and prove it out sooner than I thought, even without custom code. Yeah!
So to that end I started fabricating the cantilever yesterday. I used 1.5" x 1.5" angle steel channel. 1x1 would work, but 1.5" is also made from thicker, 16 gauge steel (instead of 18), adding extra stability. I cut the flange on one side to bend down behind the backbox for extra security, they are absolutely not going to pivot or sag downward which is concern 1 through 10. Obviously this is not the final location: I still have to rough in the height / length positioning, likely with a shim of height TBD on top of the backbox, as you can see. But that's the general idea and I think if I paint it purple it will coordinate nicely. I could probably even use just one cantilever bar, but I like the symmetry of two framing the lamp and if I have time to refine the design, I might even be able to hide the lamp housing a little more elegantly (within the cantilever instead of hanging below).
Quoted from Pincho_Paxton:I was thinking that maybe you could put the light up here like this...[quoted image]
Holy carp the "LE UV Topper"! 
I like how you even extended the art A purple fresnel lens might even coordinate with the flourish I added to the speaker panel (an idea I borrowed from a legendary collector in Cincinnati). Something like that would take more time than I have now with the show in a few weeks... but it definitely has merit for version 2.0. My main concern is the directional throw of the light against the playfield; UV reactions are fairly directional. But that can all be tested in time.
I did look at the Titan glow rubber, but not all sizes are available... the post rings especially, which would have been great for the inlanes, were not available. But it's an idea I'm considering. Not sure if it's necessary yet or not... here's a teaser of what it looks like with GI off and inserts on:
It's pretty amazing in person. And while I was originally concerned about the overhead light causing glare, look what it does to the ball! You'll see a sprite of purple starlight flying around the playfield! (yes, the ball may still be harder to track than normal but since Snail Time is a "bonus mode" of unlimited balls, it almost doesn't matter. And if you have to adjust your concentration to be better, well... Steve Richie would yell at you anyway LOL. Plus it ups the challenge in classic risk/reward fashion).
Got the relay today... did some quick-and-dirty test wiring and... IT WORKS! HOLY SHIT IT WORKS! GI goes off, UV comes on! Tested with the end-of-Snail-Time-flicker, AND with a Tilt! I almost can't believe it!
So now I just need to clean the install and confirm the code theory as a go!
Video of the test later, maybe, if I get a chance.... busy non-pinball weekend ahead....
I refined the light rig a little more and mounted it. It's self-contained and removable. I can grab it and move the machine without causing it to deflect or bend so I don't think I need to worry about its stability. Not sure if I will keep the purple color it is now, or go darker. I know it doesn't match "purple" (dark blue) on the cabinet, BUT it matches the focal point of the backglass, and the illuminated light itself. Not sure if this is the "final" form... it's still more a prototype of sorts but at least it's somewhat presentable.
I mounted the UV relay in the lower cabinet, and spliced its output line into a power cord that plugs into the service outlet. The other end of that cord is a receptacle, and hangs out the back of the cabinet with the game's original power cord. The UV boom plugs into that, so it is removable as one unit, but the 120V feed line is only in the lower cab and not the backbox. The relay's trigger signal line is a separate run that goes up into the head, with a removable connector that taps into the stock relay signal line. So the wiring is clean and allows the head and boom to all be removed as if OEM equipment.
And now, on to the coding challenge...
I’m impressed by the UV reactive paint job you did. Also impressed you have prototype integration working with the relay. I keep thinking there has to be a better solution with the UV light.
Like routing out channels in the side of the cabinet to insert UV led strips, or even mounts like the “pinstadiums”
I don't disagree. The more I consider the playfield in the cabinet though, the more challenging I think this will be. Unless there are higher-intensity high-throw strip LEDs, it may not be truly optimal to use a "stadium" style solution because there is only about 3/8" above the playfield so it's tough to cram stuff in. Plus that would obstruct some art on the plastics. Any hidden solution will likely have to be a combination of elements and bulbs which rapidly becomes complex in terms of wiring and consistency.
I do have a set of pinstadiums I was given for helping demo them at a show, and am not using, but I don't think they have the UV option. I will check fitment though.
After sleeping on it, I think I need to make the light boom darker, though. Or maybe match the cabinet blue. Or maybe it would look better without the prototyping holes. Hmm...
It's going to be really difficult to find a solution to put lighting in the playfield area on these older games for stuff like this. There's just not the clearance from the playfield rails to the glass that we're used to with modern DMD games. The UV GI options are all pretty much terrible (really poor light spread). Even routing a channel in the side of the cabinet and putting LED strip lights in there is far from optimal, unless you just happen to like staring directly at high intensity UV for long periods of time. Doesn't sound good for anyone's eyes, IMO. The overhead mount is the best option, IMO.
Just an off the wall idea but could you install a one way uv reflective film on the underside of the playfield glass and high intensity uv LEDs on the front of the apron? Would the film give you enough bounce to light the playfield? I have no idea if that would work.
https://tinyurl.com/vox29sg
https://tinyurl.com/wcubyf9
https://tinyurl.com/u94xtrb
Quoted from latenite04:Just an off the wall idea but could you install a one way uv reflective film on the underside of the playfield glass and high intensity uv LEDs on the front of the apron? Would the film give you enough bounce to light the playfield? I have no idea if that would work.
Now that's some clever thinking... no doubt, the solution might require something that creative, and I don't think I would have thought of that one. I even have some spare old pf glass, and if that film can be found in full-width it might be cheap / crazy enough to try just to see. My first thought is the normal play through the backside of the film would be hazy in appearance and ultimately unacceptable. But I'll file that under "don't know til you try".
Speaking of things you don't know til you try, the light boom color: don't think anyone would argue my first thought of "hmm, purple could work...." but after sleeping on it, it was clear to me that it didn't.
Was out shopping for supplies for my basement-disaster-jackhammering ordeal and saw some spray paint being clearanced out - almost all gone, but one lone can of dark blue remained. For $2 I knew I'd use it "someday". Got home and had a light bulb moment. I think this definitely looks better.
20200203_090116 (resized).jpg20200203_090146 (resized).jpg
If you want the uv to come as a surprise just mount an old web cam on the boom and most people will just think you have it set up for streaming.
What type of clearcoat did you use for this project?
The reason I ask, is the automotive clear i've used has UV inhibitors in it to resist fading from sunlight. I tried some glow-in-the-dark paint on a space themed playfield once to accent a few stars. But, once the clear was on, they would not glow.
Great question and I had the same concerns. I made a test board of UV color swatches and tested a few sprays.
To get the point, for the final build coats I used KBS Diamond Finish Clear aerosol, which had no ill effect. I would have considered SprayMax for this, but that only has a 2day shelf life once mixed and if it proved to be UV blocking I had no other timely use for it, and did not want to waste an expensive can.
I am limited to a basement workshop; even though I ran an effective ventilation system, super toxic fumes are not something I welcome. However, long before the final build coats, because I needed to seal and protect my work between the individual color applications, I opted to use standard off-the-shelf spray clears (Krylon, Rustoleum, etc) which are slightly less toxic than KBS DFC. I found that one of them did indeed block the UV effect, but the other did not. I can't recall which brand off hand because at some point they all look and sound the same so I will have to confirm at home.
In the end, I kinda wish I had used the mix-it-yourself KBS DFC liquid (non-aerosol), like I did for my Bad Cats. I can confirm - based on some leftover from that project which since solidified in a sealed sample jar - that the KBS DFC liquid is not UV-blocking... to a point. It might start to block if it gets too thick. The liquid formula is thicker, harder, and better at self-leveling. But YEESH that stuff was a bear to mix and spray and clean and I did not enjoy the process or the cleanup or the smell, and it also takes a long time to cure. Now, if this project only needed a few final build/finish coats of clear like a typical restore using typical paints, I would have gone that way. But there was SO MUCH intermediary work (doing almost EVERY COLOR on nearly the entire playfield, in thick UV pigments to feather and blend on a super-fragile surrounding strata) that I opted for the shortcut of "household" clears and aerosol cans, otherwise this would have taken many months of ongoing frustration and distraction and delay. And maybe the KBS liquid would have been too thick.
Ultimately, I'm not sure that was the right decision as I've seen some tells of concern. I probably need to consider adding a few more layers of clear, and maybe will after expo. But this was certainly a challenge in many ways and a valuable learning experience.
TLDR; your question is a key point with regards to UV effects. My advice is to consider your options and test a sample of clear against your paint first if possible.
Thank you for the detailed response! I recall KBS being mentioned in another restoration thread. Perhaps i'll get a can to test on a wallhanger playfield. Any suggestion on a retail location? I see that's its on Amazon..
I can sympathize with the complexity of using UV paint. I airbrushed my fathom cabinet with UV paint (pics in profile) and it had to be painted in the dark with a black light in order to get the opacity or concentration correct. Meaning, the color would look nice and even in normal light, but in black light it would be patchy.
I'll see if I can ask my guy what he used on my Crescendo. It's holding up great, and I don't know what prep work he did after I gave him the playfield, but it looks amazing. I didn't seal between color coats, and I just lightly sanded the playfield as it was, and painted right over the old paint with Createx. 
Really nice looking Game, great job. . I've been following this and almost hate to see it come to an end.. Best of luck at the show with it. 
Are you going to be bringing a tent or something so the show lights don’t interfere with the effect? Don’t want to have the stranger things projector situation going on..
What are you doing with the pop bumper area? they look purple; but are they Evos?
I'm wondering if the bottom side of a Evo could be setup with UV LEDs in a similar vain to what I did for my
STNG PopCaps. I couldn't tell in the video; but the popcap leds looked dimly lit during snail time.
coming along very nicely! if you would still get adequate uv light coverage with the light mount rotated 90 degrees so it matches the width of the backbox would be a little more stealthy.
if you have solid iron angle stock I would try that or just make a wooden rectangular picture type frame for the mount , painting a scallop type pattern on the sides of the frame mimicking the bottom part of the cabinet might fit well .
I made a new video talking about some of the other things I changed and customized, including the pop bumpers. I hope it's informative:
I didn't mention the blackened side rails... I did that specifically to focus on the color contrasts... I found the woodgrain to be a more distracting clash than usual, whereas blackened rails continue as a seamless extension of the playfield and almost make the art seem to "float".
Quoted from pinballjj:coming along very nicely! if you would still get adequate uv light coverage with the light mount rotated 90 degrees so it matches the width of the backbox would be a little more stealthy.
if you have solid iron angle stock I would try that or just make a wooden rectangular picture type frame for the mount , painting a scallop type pattern on the sides of the frame mimicking the bottom part of the cabinet might fit well .
I do like the idea of using solid metal stock, and that will probably come in the future if I don't find an acceptable "under glass" solution. I also like the idea of using the "scallops" from the cabinet art... I could maybe even try something like that now. But I can't say I like the idea of wood, which in this application would be far too fragile for my taste. But the other ideas are solid!
Heh... I guess I was neither informative nor entertaining. Oh well, I tried!
ANYWAY I hooked up the flippers for a few debugging plays and OH MY GOD is the UV-mode *awesome* in game play! The ball almost like... completely disappears! All you see is that sprite-like UV reflection and while it's not as hard to track or follow as you'd think, it's trippy as hell watching a "black hole" fly over the glowing art! I did NOT forsee that effect playing out!
Hopefully I'll get some gameplay video soon.
Quoted from goingincirclez:Heh... I guess I was neither informative nor entertaining. Oh well, I tried!
ANYWAY I hooked up the flippers for a few debugging plays and OH MY GOD is the UV-mode *awesome* in game play! The ball almost like... completely disappears! All you see is that sprite-like UV reflection and while it's not as hard to track or follow as you'd think, it's trippy as hell watching a "black hole" fly over the glowing art! I did NOT forsee that effect playing out!
Hopefully I'll get some gameplay video soon.
Huh. That's interesting. I've always had a Globall in my Crescendo, both so it could be seen more easily, and also because globall+clearcoat+fully rebuilt playfield on an EM is just some ludicrous BS. 
*Edit* Globalls are BARELY heavier than a powerball... they're substantially lighter than a regular ball.
"Ludicrous BS" would be a great title theme. Either as a completely original one, or possibly a Tesla license... 
The more I / we've played it though, the more the stock "disappearing" ball is awesome. It's really not difficult to track at all but it really messes with your head that you can't really "see" it the way you're used to. No doubt, the bulk of the pf being black enhances this effect. It's a truly happy surprise I wasn't expectiing at all!
Quoted from goingincirclez:"Ludicrous BS" would be a great title theme. Either as a completely original one, or possibly a Tesla license...
The more I / we've played it though, the more the stock "disappearing" ball is awesome. It's really not difficult to track at all but it really messes with your head that you can't really "see" it the way you're used to. No doubt, the bulk of the pf being black enhances this effect. It's a truly happy surprise I wasn't expectiing at all!
Well, the Crescendo layout is definitely perfect for a "Ludicrous BS" re-theme, because you're going to be yelling at it more often than not over how many house balls there are with that massive flipper gap and double pop bumper-to-drain config at the bottom, with no slings to get it out of there. LOL.
Alright! First up, I'm not a streamer: I extended my tripod all the way up, leaned it against the game, and precariously balanced my cellphone within an oversized tablet bracket. So the angle's not perfect, and there's some reflection duplication from the glass...
...but here's some gameplay video. I focused on getting UV-Snail mode instead of "best scoring", and ended up getting it twice. Still love how the ball "disappears"!
(Daresay, my UV implementation is better than Stern's on Stranger Things.... )
Thanks! It's pretty diggable. Had its first "public preview" when a neighborhood family came to visit the other day and they were pretty well shocked and delighted. I hope it's not too brutal at the show for folks to see. I need to figure out why the pops tend to hold the ball "captive" on the right so much, I'm concered about burning something up.
Continuing the tradition I started when I took the Bad Cats my girls and I restored to LAX last year, I made a custom apron for TFUV. I'm really pleased with how it turned out! Thinking of modifying it for standard versions for sale if folks are interested.
I almost hate to say it but....is there any risk of that specular reflection of the UV light being dangerous? It's pretty gnarly on the glass. That's honestly one of the reasons why I HAVEN'T mounted mine for Crescendo. The idea of blasting my eyes with super-intense UV focused through a specular reflection is not very appealing, and I don't have the first idea if some kind of diffuser would help, or just make it completely useless and ruin the whole effect.
The camera was positioned almost next to the spotlight and looking straight at the glass, so that reflection was at full intensity almost like a mirror.
After playing several games, and with other folks (of various heights, including kids) having witnessed it, you really don't notice the UV spotlight "reflection" from a typical playing angle. I honestly have to say as far as "retina burn" goes, LED backbox reflection is far more intense, annoying, and distracting.
As for UV wavelengths, these spotlights fall into the 385-405 nanometer range, which is generally considered safe - and part of what makes UV applications so challenging, because many would scientifically argue it's not really true ultraviolet. The fact that you can literally "see a purple light" means it's still technically in the visible (harmless) spectrum! Just like all the "UV" led mod bulbs 
True "invisible" UV lights are sold with all sorts of hazard and exposure warnings. Even Laser pointers come with more warnings and hazards. These UV spotlights are sold for folks to prop up on tables and aim for all kinds of amateur party effects for hours on end. So for my purposes, as installed here, I'm not worried at all.
Quoted from goingincirclez:The camera was positioned almost next to the spotlight and looking straight at the glass, so that reflection was at full intensity almost like a mirror.
After playing several games, and with other folks (of various heights, including kids) having witnessed it, you really don't notice the UV spotlight "reflection" from a typical playing angle. I honestly have to say as far as "retina burn" goes, LED backbox reflection is far more intense, annoying, and distracting.
As for UV wavelengths, these spotlights fall into the 385-405 nanometer range, which is generally considered safe - and part of what makes UV applications so challenging, because many would scientifically argue it's not really true ultraviolet. The fact that you can literally "see a purple light" means it's still technically in the visible (harmless) spectrum! Just like all the "UV" led mod bulbs
True "invisible" UV lights are sold with all sorts of hazard and exposure warnings. Even Laser pointers come with more warnings and hazards. These UV spotlights are sold for folks to prop up on tables and aim for all kinds of amateur party effects for hours on end. So for my purposes, as installed here, I'm not worried at all.
Good points. I'm going to see if I can figure out what the wavelengths on my UV light actually are now.
The right pop repeating is a thing that happens on all Time Fantasy's I've played. Probably have to change the geometry in that area to prevent it.
Quoted from slochar:The right pop repeating is a thing that happens on all Time Fantasy's I've played. Probably have to change the geometry in that area to prevent it.
The thing is though, it never used to do this until I put it all back together! I wonder if I swapped a rubber ring size accidentally in that area, and one is ever-so-slightly too loose or tight allowing that effect?
Oddly enough though, I once took a PinBot to a show and for the duration of the show it had the same issue of the right pop capturing the ball and slamming it repeatedly against the wall. More than one player stood by in bewliderment as the score built over 10, 20, even 30 seconds. It only happened once I moved the game to the show! I figured "something" about the leveling (even though it was "level" and pitched the same) post-move was "off" somehow, but in the chaos and confusion of the show environment I never quite figured out what. I haven't messed with the levelers on TFUV yet.
Quoted from goingincirclez:The thing is though, it never used to do this until I put it all back together! I wonder if I swapped a rubber ring size accidentally in that area, and one is ever-so-slightly too loose or tight allowing that effect?
Far more likely that the pop just wasn't tuned well enough previously to re-fire that quickly. I've had the same thing happen on other games, and also on games that were just put out on location.
The best one ever though was Ghostbusters. It's got the perfect geometry in the upper left of the pops with strong mechs and good rubber to do a THREE WAY loop that takes forever to stop itself. And since the pops give mystery awards.....it's just a nonstop stream of random great things like +ghosts or whatever LOL.
A few cosmetic tweaks:
With pinballjj 's suggestion in mind, I realized that the holes in my prototype angle could kinda sorta match the weird cabinet artwork if they were white? So I back-painted some posterboard strips blue to match the angle stock, and inserted them with the white side facing out. I actually like it!
A couple people suggested that the LED bulb in the end of the time tube was a bit too bright and catches players' eyes at certain angles. I came up with an idea using the same tinted fresnel stock, and swapped the bulb for a purple one. The diffused effect cuts down the glare, while the purple matches the tube art and kind of hints at the effect the target will grant... it's even kinda neat how it reflects off the orbit rail.
Buttoning a few more things before the show: first, I redid the 40-pin driver connector, and finally removed the interesting dual-9V-battery connector hack that had been directly soldered to the burned GI connector when I acquired the game...
Oddly enough, this is the only SS game I have where every single board is numbers-matching original to the game. And aside from those two connectors and new caps, everything else is original and clean. Kinda neat!
I then turned overdue attention to the backglass, which could have extremely nice with minimal flaking, if not for the fact that it seems someone laid a sprung clipped coathanger or something on it and scratched the hell out of it. You can see traces of this in the darker blue under the snail.... I already touched in the lighter blue. And the yellow and white and black in the lettering. The red was flaked but blends OK. Of course these areas are more visible when lit, but still a significant improvement. (I laid a sheet of wax paper behind the glass to help diffuse the intensity of LEDs, reducing glare, because even though only 40% of the buld sockets are filled with single SMD bulbs it was STILL intense. I need to final-dress the sheet around the numeric display openings).
Still a few areas to finish yet but my daughter wants to help, and while I was trying to ID the right colors to use I ended up doing most of it without her, oops.
And yet as if to reward my efforts, after 22 months of looking an original manual turned up! Just the smaller one, but these seem to be rarer as original WMS SS paperwork goes so it's a good start. Nice to have with the game.
Quoted from goingincirclez:And yet as if to reward my efforts, after 22 months of looking an original manual turned up! Just the smaller one,
Hey Don't buy a manual! I have an extra I'll give you at LAX! When I picked up my Time Fantasy it had this black plastic folder in it with a set of manuals and the drawings...Then somewhere along the line I picked up an extra manual. The one that says drawing set and the manual are basically the same...they both have the schematics and stuff in them. So I'll bring you a manual to LAX!
That is cool that all your boards have matching serial numbers! That is pretty rare to find a Williams 6 or 7 that have their original boards. Usually the driver boards have been swapped out at some point. I have a couple that have matching boards. I try to keep original boards in the games rather than swapping them out for the repro boards. We just recently went through all our boards that have been repaired and re-installed them back to their original games. 
Looking forward to seeing your TFUV edition at LAX!! See you next Thursday!!
Phoebe
Resized_20200228_110914 (resized).jpegResized_20200228_111013 (resized).jpegDang Pheobe, you're the best! You're dang right I'll take you up on that offer! But that's awesome that you had the entire packet to begin with! I love how the envelope says "Test program"... I wonder if your game was an early location test before general production began? That's an interesting piece of history either way. And yes, I can't wait for you guys to see it too! Hopefully there will be a "dim enough" period on Thursday to see the effect though, otherwise it might have to wait until "showtime lights out" on Friday!
Didn't mean to be so late in thanks, but I forgot to get a picture of one more custom touch: I changed the post rubber on the time tube to purple. Looks a lot better that way...
Quoted from goingincirclez:Dang Pheobe, you're the best! You're dang right I'll take you up on that offer! But that's awesome that you had the entire packet to begin with! I love how the envelope says "Test program"... I wonder if your game was an early location test before general production began? That's an interesting piece of history either way. And yes, I can't wait for you guys to see it too! Hopefully there will be a "dim enough" period on Thursday to see the effect though, otherwise it might have to wait until "showtime lights out" on Friday!
Didn't mean to be so late in thanks, but I forgot to get a picture of one more custom touch: I changed the post rubber on the time tube to purple. Looks a lot better that way...
[quoted image]
We loaded the trailer today...well mostly, Hubby was attempting to transfer his custom shelving unit from our old trailer to our new trailer but of course it won't fit to his satisfaction sooo no shelves in the trailer this trip (he'll have to build new ones for the new trailer later!). 
Hopefully you got yours loaded up cause from what I've seen for the weather it's gonna be pretty wet for the rest of the week!
I packed the TF manual in my show manual folder so don't let me forget to give it to you! See you Thursday!! Looking forward to the show!!!
Phoebe
So quick little epilogue here. I took TFUV to LAX2020 and... it was great! Phoebe graciously honored me with a spot smack in the middle of the famous Cincy Row... and it seemed to quickly get attention even though you couldn't see the UV effect until the official show start and facility-lights off... at which point her husband promptly owned it by setting GC as soon as the show started, ha!
But everyone who saw it seemed to be impressed. It made the new rotating "Social Big Board" outside the LAX entry...
...was played by a celebrity: no less than Brian Eddy himself (!)...
I know I slung some indignantly good-natured mud in Stern's direction once they revealed the UV-mode in Stranger Things, but I have to say it was really gratifying to hear Brian describe some of the struggles they had with it during his seminar. When we chatted privately later he went into more detail and wow, we were really on the same page at almost the same time in researching and discovering and trying to figure things out. My effects are more colorful, but theirs are more intense. Stern's UV strips are also far more elegant and robust than anything I could come up with on my own.... maybe I should have begged for a "seconds" UV kit from them to hack and adapt into my game. But it was really awesome to chat with an industry pro and legend about things and to even feel like I had a small shred of shared experience now. He even gave my daughters some cool Stern hats! So I'll eat a little crow... but am still rightly proud that I came up with my own solution for a different effect. (And as Phoebe reminded me, she gets some credit for tipping me off on what paints to not/use...)
Over the weekend, the game held up perfectly. Only had to open it up to clean a switch, replace a bulb (one of the few incandescents I left in finally burned out!), and then reseat the mushroom jump wireform which popped out 2 hours shy of show's end. Can't complain about that.
And thanks to Pheobe, and everyone else who played and complimented, I got to take some cool hardware home with it:
Funny enough, that plaque almost works with my hacky light boom as a sort-of-topper, ha!
Many thanks to all who helped with advice and tips along this journey... and especially to the Sys7 code genius (you know who you are, I only don't mention your name to maybe spare your inbox!) who helped me... I owe you big time!
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