(Topic ID: 257855)

UV-Mode Time Fantasy gameplay video posted...


By goingincirclez

58 days ago



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#1 58 days ago

Edit: Feb 14: Gameplay video! https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/you-ve-never-seen-a-time-fantasy-like-this-/page/2#post-5470668

Edit: Feb 4: Ultraviolet Snail Time is working! Jump to https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/you-ve-never-seen-a-time-fantasy-like-this-/page/2#post-5452457

....

I’m finally at the point where I can reveal something I’ve been working on... and ask for a little help to take it to the next level. I tend to be a wordy mofo so I tried to let a video do the literal talking...

...but it's still 8 minutes (did I say I’m wordy?) BECAUSE after the frustration of having to abort no less than 4 previous takes, even this one got interrupted. Family! Kids! Cats! YAY!

BUT IT’S WORTH IT for the *reveal about 3 minutes in*. The rest is me explaining my approach and what I'm ultimately trying to accomplish:

I hope it’s a worthy effort. If you have suggestions or advice to solve the unique lighting issue (dare I say never before done in pinball?) toward getting this thing finished and ready for public display in a couple months, please share!

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#2 58 days ago

nice work! I hear your concerns regarding having the uv lights on the side but I would at least prototype putting the lights in an l channel bracket on the sides ala pinstadiums and see how it looks . A uv glow pinball would be cool .

#3 58 days ago

I saw it on instagram. It’s cool !!

#4 58 days ago

So, you want the LED strips to turn on when certain inserts are on? You've got 9 unused solenoid outputs you can leverage for this. (10 if you need to use one of the special solenoid circuits)

PM sent.
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#5 57 days ago
Quoted from pinballjj:

nice work! I hear your concerns regarding having the uv lights on the side but I would at least prototype putting the lights in an l channel bracket on the sides ala pinstadiums and see how it looks . A uv glow pinball would be cool .

A UV pinball *would* be cool! But it might be too much of a "tell" that something is lurking, if I can pull off the rest of the effect.

Quoted from slochar:

You've got 9 unused solenoid outputs you can leverage for this. (10 if you need to use one of the special solenoid circuits)
PM sent.[quoted image]

That would certainly be the most elegant / OEM solution to this problem, and Time Fantasy is certainly unique in that there are so many spare outputs. So I'm lucky to have that sandbox... however, leveraging those would require delving into the game code. Long term I want to attempt this but, near term, having never done so before, my deadline doesn't allow proper time for me to learn, understand, and debug that method.

#6 57 days ago

I at least deemed this effort as worthy of finally changing my avatar after 5 years, if nothing else...

#7 57 days ago

it looks great, but you will not be able to see good enough to play it in those conditions. Very hard for the human eye to follow moving objects in UV light. If you have your GI's white, it will mask your UV intentions. So either have the UV effect and not play it, or not have the UV and be able to play it.

#8 57 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

So, you want the LED strips to turn on when certain inserts are on? You've got 9 unused solenoid outputs you can leverage for this. (10 if you need to use one of the special solenoid circuits)
PM sent.
[quoted image]

The factory software doesn't use those solenoid outputs, so I don't think he can use those to turn anything on or off without custom software or hardware.

#9 57 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it looks great, but you will not be able to see good enough to play it in those conditions. Very hard for the human eye to follow moving objects in UV light. If you have your GI's white, it will mask your UV intentions. So either have the UV effect and not play it, or not have the UV and be able to play it.

Getaway, AFM, DM and numerous other games have UV ink on the playfields. I've seen them glow enough to notice them playing in Stu's old gameroom where the room was lit with black lights on the ceiling. I think he may have had colored GI lights instead of bright white, which was dim enough to allow the UV effect to occur (but then you have to live with colored GI lighting with I absolutely hate!!!)

#10 57 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it looks great, but you will not be able to see good enough to play it in those conditions. Very hard for the human eye to follow moving objects in UV light. If you have your GI's white, it will mask your UV intentions. So either have the UV effect and not play it, or not have the UV and be able to play it.

I had wondered about that myself, but there was "no way for me to know" without trying it. To that end your point about the GI interfering is well taken, however. This is why long term, I think the coding idea has some advantages because I could add a relay in place - and there's era-appropriate precedent for such in games like Blackout - to turn off the GI when the UV mode kicks in. But that's a different wholesale approach. At the very least for now I can stick with lower-output incandescent GI to give LED-UV the advantage when on.

It's funny how something as simple as "lighting" becomes anything but once you have to think about it. But this whole project has been like that, chicken-egg too: no point in worrying about lighting until I knew how the UV would look to merit the effort or not...

Quoted from kbliznick:

I think he may have had colored GI lights instead of bright white, which was dim enough to allow the UV effect to occur (but then you have to live with colored GI lighting with I absolutely hate!!!)

I hate colored GI too! Nothing but white GI for me. Like I said above, in this case I think "dim LED" or inca GI is warranted, pending whatever provides the UV. I have a feeling I'm going to have to settle for "quick and dirty" for the expo this year (2020), and then refine for 2021.

#11 57 days ago

I think the UV lightstrips ala pinstadium like what was suggested should work just fine.

I put glow balls and glow in the dark rings on my America's most haunted and then added a handful of UV lights and strips. This caused the rings and balls to glow really well and still be able to see and play the game just fine with white GI. I wish I had added the full strips like the pinstadiums. Instead I had a strip in the apron pointing up at the pf, some spot lights added to the slingshots and a strip under the head on the top of the pf. I also put a strip IN the ball trough to charge up the GITD properties of the glow balls. This would super charge some spots on them and when they went into play the effect was quite intense. The fact that they didn't charge evenly allowed you to see the rotation of the balls and added to the ghost/slimer effect. Biggest downside is the glowballs are lighter and I really needed to add a cover over the jump ramp as the balls would fly to the back of the playfield over the side of the ramp.
When the GI relay turned off or strobed during game effects the always on UV really stood out then.

great job on a perfect game to do this to. Just need to add the smoke machine as a topper to work in tandem with this great theme. Wish I had kept mine. Restencilled the cab and put in an NOS playfield and did custom color changes with the targets, posts, pop bumpers. Color changers in all the bonus inserts.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wtb-time-fantasy-playfield

#12 57 days ago

Keep in mind that there are a lot of really bad UV led strips out there. I had some mounted and the strip washed from UV to white within two days. Test them out before you mount them in any permanent fashion.

bad:
amazon.com link »

#13 57 days ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

I had wondered about that myself, but there was "no way for me to know" without trying it. To that end your point about the GI interfering is well taken, however. This is why long term, I think the coding idea has some advantages because I could add a relay in place - and there's era-appropriate precedent for such in games like Blackout - to turn off the GI when the UV mode kicks in. But that's a different wholesale approach. At the very least for now I can stick with lower-output incandescent GI to give LED-UV the advantage when on.
It's funny how something as simple as "lighting" becomes anything but once you have to think about it. But this whole project has been like that, chicken-egg too: no point in worrying about lighting until I knew how the UV would look to merit the effort or not...

I hate colored GI too! Nothing but white GI for me. Like I said above, in this case I think "dim LED" or inca GI is warranted, pending whatever provides the UV. I have a feeling I'm going to have to settle for "quick and dirty" for the expo this year (2020), and then refine for 2021.

having a UV mode would be fantastic. It would be like red mode in Atlantis.

#14 57 days ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

having a UV mode would be fantastic. It would be like red mode in Atlantis.

...or Condition Green in Space Station (I didn't know Atlantis had "red mode")! My whole intent on this painting exercise was to turn the Snail Time mode into UV.

~~~~~~

Experimenting further tonight before I pull the pf out of the machine for final prep/clear... I put the glass back on. The reflection from the overhead spotlight was there but not as bad as I thought; honestly DMD and Backbox glare is often worse.

And counter to my expectation, when I held a fresnel lens over the spotlight to act as a diffuser, it actually *enhanced* the over color effect while softening the reflection. Didn't expect that. So at least the "worst case" scenario might still benefit from some enhancements.

But I'll definitely be looking into these other suggestions in the coming weeks!

#15 57 days ago

condition red on atlantis is exactly like condition green on space station.

#16 57 days ago
Quoted from kbliznick:

The factory software doesn't use those solenoid outputs, so I don't think he can use those to turn anything on or off without custom software or hardware.

That's what I was offering to pursue, there are people that can do this. I understand if he wanted to learn to do it himself though, there is a lot of satisfaction in pulling off this kind of custom.

2 weeks later
#17 37 days ago

Just an update before I go back to the logic thread and finally touch base with some of the ideas there... I've been mostly AWOL around here the past few weeks 'til today.

But anyway, the clearing process has been very slow. I *severely* underestimated just how bad the condition of this pf was. In addition to the missing paint, a lot more of it was chipped, pocked, dare I even say *dimpled* down to the wood with tiny little flecks barely more than 1mm in most cases. These flecks were easy to touch up with paint, and I thought they would fill and self-level with a few coats of prep clear...

...but they did not. In addition, all the 3/4" inserts were sunk AND angled from 1/16 to 3/16 of an inch... AND... adding all the touchup layers, especially the build layers for the UV colors, elevated those portions of the art with hard edges.

So basically, after the first coat of clear dried a couple weeks ago, this is what it looked like... and it was actually WORSE than it looks!

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So I've been thrown into a very tedious process of filling insets and other damage, which always takes more fill layers than you think (a thick bubble of clear dries thinner than saran wrap!)... adding full sacrificial layers of clear in between to sand the perimeter of those areas, add feather layers, etc... I've basically had tunnel vision just trying no to rush other things ahead of myself. I'm really pushing my luck if this has any hope of being ready in 6 weeks. It's getting close though, and I actually need to make my decal set soon or THAT might kill the deadline.

I have identified the font as "GF Becker" but the files available online - which apparently are the same as one I got off a font CD in 1996 - are blurry garbage. So I need to sharpen the characters one by one, arrgh.

My wife got me an ultrasonic cleaner for xmas though, and that has been awesome. The parts that came off the pop and sling mechs look almost new again.

#18 37 days ago

I would have considered embedding UV strips into the side rails (so they aren't visible on the surface) and also triggering the overhead uv lamp at the same time. That way you have multiple sources of UV and the more UV the merrier.

#19 36 days ago

That's actually sport of what I have in mind... it's clear to me this won't be ready as a "hidden" mod for LAX but long term you and I are on the same page. I want to eliminate anything overhead if at all possible.

1 week later
#20 26 days ago

Well it's been a challenge and a half unlike the other pfs I've restored. But it no longer looks like a topographical map of the moon!

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#21 23 days ago

Buffed out and plastics painted

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#22 23 days ago

"Can you dig it?"
Yes... yes I can.

#24 22 days ago
Quoted from d0n:

I only have 1 question.... WHY?

Why not?

#25 22 days ago
Quoted from d0n:

I only have 1 question.... WHY?

I covered that in the video. The original playfield was blown out with missing paint down to the wood along with a host of other defects. It needed to be repainted anyway, so...

...this guy gets it

I am working on a mod to trigger the UV effect during snail time. Someone is helping me with the code tweaks.

#26 22 days ago

The easiest way to do this, without any added programming, is to modify the GI relay. Actually you probably don't even have to modify it. But when the GI relay pulls in, all the GI lighting goes off. But the relay is SPDT. Meaning that when the relay is pulled in, and it turns off the GI lights, you could have it light the UV. Either directly (depending on the UV voltage), or through another relay. It would be pretty easy to do. About 15 minutes of work.

#27 22 days ago

Oh wow... thanks Clay! Your guides were invaluable helping me get started out in the hobby blind with a project 5 years ago, and still a valuable resource. Everyone owes you a debt for making things "doable".

As for the GI relay, I literally had that realization a couple days ago, so we're headed in that direction. Thing is, as far as I can recall - and have attempted to confirm in videos since my game can't be turned on while disassembled - the GI relay is only used at the end of Snail Time, to flicker the lights briefly....

So to my understanding some code tweaking is still necessary:

1) Add a GI Relay trigger to the *start* of snail time.
2) Make that new mode start relay trigger say [ GI OFF (no flicker) -> Alt output (UV mod) ON ]
3) Modify the original code's "mode end" relay trigger to say, instead of flickering, [ Alt ouput UV mod OFF -> GI ON]

Not entirely sure how to wire in the UV mod in. I could probably figure it out, but my first thought of caution is will the stock relay support an external power supplied mod? I haven't determined the voltage involved but it's presently a 30W LED array mounted overhead. Plugs into service outlet. Long term I intend to do something more discreet.

#28 22 days ago

To borrow a quote from your video, "freakishly amazing!" Keep up the great work,best of luck.

#29 22 days ago

You have bigger problems though. I have done exactly what you are doing (not on Time Fantasy, another game.) You are basing everything on that overhead black light. But in reality, that's a bad plan. you want the lights *inside* the game. I did a pin stadium type arrangement (and my game was more modern WPC style, with higher cabinet side walls, so the light is up higher). i could not get enough UV light to really light the PF. Your cab as very short side walls, barely enough room for a pin stadium type system. And the light won't project down on the playfield (more sideways). Maybe you can come up with another plan. But with the lights on the side, I just could not get enough UV. I tried UV tubes (they sell 24" tubes at 12 volts) *and* LED strips with the tubes. Just not enough UV light. I could never get it to glow like you show in the video, or even close to that. just not enough UV light.

Getting the lights to turn on at the right time is easy. Getting the PF to look good without having that big UV light overhead, that's a whole other plan...

#30 22 days ago

You're right of course... I had feared very much the same when I was roughing out the idea and proof of concept in my head, and I think I even mentioned it in the video. I was also concerned that side-mounted lights would cast shadows with all the obstructions in the way. So to that end, for testing I bought a cheap roll of UV strips and most of those fears were confirmed... however, it was a cheap roll and loosely mocked with the PF out of the cabinet. A better roll and more optimized mounting might do better.

Either way, the problem stems from the fact that due to the low wavelength of UV light, a UV bulb of the same wattage as visible light, does not have the same intensity. So a strip of UV lights would be dim compared to standard lights, at the same power rating. Up the power output and you introduce all sorts of other issues (expense, form factor / size, etc).

Having said that, the intensity of the pigments I used did seem to be OK even with that strip. If I could aim them at about 45 degrees, it might even be acceptable... I will have to experiment more once it's back in the cabinet. Either way this is an interesting challenge. The good news is the game looks bone stock in natural light so no harm, no foul if I can't pull it off.

But the 30W flood - if not ideal for hiding - looks AWESOME when on. Honestly, that pic with the plastics on that I posted? The light was still mounted over the cabinet, over 3 feet off to the side! So the pf would be TWICE as bright directly beneath!

To that end, I think the code tweaks are necessary... what did you think of the logic I mentioned? I was kind of surprised to realize Williams went through the trouble of wiring a relay into GI - only to flicker it once!

Turning off the GI would also help low-powered UV lights enhance the intensity of the effect...

#31 21 days ago

Yea the overhead blacklight looks great, no doubt. but are you going to have a tripod over the game to use that light? probably not. i mean i guess you could, but it's clearly not ideal.

i would forget about the code for now. again, that's pretty easy compared to the issue with the light. because if you can't solve that problem, then code or no code, it does not matter!

speaking of paint, what UV paint did you use exactly? i used just water based acrylic paints from Michaels that are like $1 a bottle...

#32 21 days ago

Very creative project and Bravo on saving that game with your art talent! Just a suggestion but in order to get the Pow UV light effect you may need to make compromises in the stealth direction sadly. Have you considered simply adding a pair of hooded UV spot lights to the top or sides of the back box? You could even get fancy creative and integrate them into some type of topper to hide the surprise a bit. Just a thought, congrats on a creative job well done.

amazon.com link »

#33 21 days ago

Clay,

Bearing in mind that long term I hope to solve the "hidden lighting" challenge, *for now* I am going to build a cantilever rig over the pf. Essentially use some angle stock and bend it into an "L" shape, mounted securely to the back and top of the backbox. It will extend over the pf, and I will mount the spotlight to that. Not hidden, I know... but it will be stable and secure, and still portable and removable. I'd might even be able to devise a shim mount to attach the rig between the head and the lower cab if someone were truly averse to holes in the backbox itself. Regardless, using angle stock is the key to preventing the light boom from sagging. Aesthetically, I could paint it to blend to the cabinet, and today people are familiar with streaming rigs over pfs too so that will help. The reflection on the PF glass is thus the main downside of an overhead mount, but when I tested this it was passable as a DMD or LED-backbox reflection is actually worse.

I actually hope to begin work on this in the coming week.

The paints are a custom blend. I used Wildfire pigments: expensive, but a little goes a long way and they are INTENSE. A bit of a learning curve in applying them, however. I didn't go with craft UV paints because I wanted to make colors that don't reveal themselves in broad daylight ("dayglo") and instead look like the stock Pantone or whatever inks that Williams used. You can do that with Wildfire by mixing with the $1 craft paints like I did. Red is the biggest challenge: all UV reds look "hot" and it's hard to get a "base" neutral red hue that still reacts well - I think I did, but need an intense UV light to give the best effect but it is not as reactant as the other colors. The purple I mixed is also "dull" as UV goes, but it's a dark tone as purples go.

#35 20 days ago

But you never finished the thread so it doesn't count! lol JK looks fricken awesome. Love seeing these threads where you guys take you own direction and make it unique. Very cool.

#36 20 days ago

I looked up the wildfire UV paint man it is expensive. but what wildfire type did you use to mix with the craft paint? this may solve my problem...

#37 20 days ago

I used the artist's 10 pack kit. More than enough to do a playfield... maybe even a lifetime supply for projects like this. It's not really a paint but a pigment, so you have to thin it... and a little goes a long way. So it seems expensive up front but you'd easily get at least 3 dozen typical 2 oz. craft-paint size bottles out of it, if not more.... so it turns out to be a great value IMO considering what Createx and some of the "premium" craft paints cost.

amazon.com link »

If you have more questions I'd be happy to answer, if you want to PM.

Frax: Sorry! I had no idea you did that; I think you posted that right around the time I first joined Pinside... and in all the time since I've never really seen folks talk about doing UV games (and after this project I understand why, oops). Guess I can't take full credit as the first but yours looks cool and is a great thematic candidate for UV. You did a great job on the clearcoat too.

#38 20 days ago

that amazon link is for particular colors... i thought you were using a UV pigment, basically no color except UV pigment, and added it to $1 craft paint. Hence turning that craft paint color into a UV reactive color. Or am i mis-understanding this process?

#39 20 days ago

Wildfire Artist Kit Black Light Paint, 1 Ounce Bottles, (Pack of 10)

Should have been a 10-pack of colors... search the above term.

It's not a pure UV crystalline pigment. But once you see how thick these "paints" are, I don't really want to call them paint. They are THICK like a paste so may as well be pigments (I may be confusing terms and for that I apologize... but I have in the past seen and used "pigment blocks" that you can crumble and mix into paint if desired... based on that experience this Wildfire stuff reminds me of somewhere between the steps. I have never seen another paint sold as thick as Wildfire. It is definitely not ready to use out of the jar, but it thins very well. So it's a little hard to describe. I hardly used any of it!)

#40 19 days ago

Ah if only I could take credit for the clear on Crescendo. I paid someone to clear it. LOL. Seriously though, I love this project (I mean for OBVIOUS REASONS COME ON). I had joked with my wife that if we ever got ahold of a Time Fantasy, this is exactly what I wanted to do with it, and put it next to Crescendo...so if you ever decide to sell this thing...... yeah.

I'm also planning on using an overhead mount...I bought the big LED blacklight a long time ago, I've just never gotten around to installing the mount to dangle it over the game. "Pinstoopids" won't fit in an EM, and I hate the idea of UV LED strips being visible directly to the player's line of sight. I have UV GI in there right now, but it's only half-assed at showing it off!

Quoted from Yelobird:

But you never finished the thread so it doesn't count! lol JK looks fricken awesome. Love seeing these threads where you guys take you own direction and make it unique. Very cool.

You're not wrong. And the above reason is why. I PROMISE when I get it mounted I will update the thread... ~_~

*Edit* Oh, and guys... I used Createx UV paints in my airbrush. That might be an option too for anyone looking to do something like this. It wasn't horribly expensive, but it was a few years ago..

#41 19 days ago

I'm trying to understand the process here...
so you get the wildfire from the Amazon link above that you posted:
Deep Violet, Bright Orange, Bright Red, Hot Pink, Bright Green, Brilliant Yellow, Deep Yellow, Deep Blue, Magenta & Optical White
but these colors are not usable directly. So you mix them into cheap $1 acrylic colors?
i'm confused...

#42 19 days ago

The colors are usable out of the bottle (as they appear your eye, if you like them) but you would have to thin the paste first.

If those colors are too "hot" or otherwise not a match for your purpose, the advantage to Wildfire is their UV pigment is so heavily saturated, that you can mix them with other acrylic paints (or each other) to blend nearly any other color you might want, and yet they will still be more intense than your "dollar discount craft" UV paints. Disclaimers still apply of course, like what I mentioned about reds... some hues are just naturally more troublesome than others.

Put another way: as they come, the Wildfire look like any dayglo paint: you can tell they would glow, even under normal lighting. But by mixing them with other paints, I was able to hide that effect under normal light and create colors that look basically "stock" - as proven by how my Time Fantasy looks under normal light. But even those colors still majorly POP under UV, thanks to the wildfire pigments I mixed in. Does that make sense?

#43 19 days ago

Got the pf back in the cabinet for mockup, with plastics in proper alignment, directly beneath the spotlight...

20200127_203229 (resized).jpg

Egad that's bright!

And here it is with LED GI installed. It's the same GI I had before.... I'll be dialing it down a little. But man, even then it still glows a bit... that rainbow really pops!

20200127_203158 (resized).jpg

Compare the special effect I added to the bubbles the snail is sitting on: I used a UV and a non-UV white. They blend together perfectly under normal light... the non-reactive reflects the purple UV spotlight, while the reactive paint I used for outlines, stays white.

All kinds of cool stuff you can do!

#44 19 days ago

Friggin' amazing. I love it.

#45 19 days ago

OK! Now the challenging part begins. Like so many other things, it's simple in theory, but not in practice when you haven't done it before. Yet if Clay says it's easy, I must be missing something.... so someone please, clarify for me! I'll copy some of what I told my code assistant:

The "GI relay" is actually on the power supply. If I'm reading the schematic correctly, it appears to be DPST with one side unused (the "OFF" side; by default the relay is set to "GI on" at rest). This relay is triggered by Solenoid 11, Q35. There's actually an input line connector on the PSU called "special relay" for this signal! So that transistor pulls the the relay in which turns off the GI (in the original game code, it only flickers briefly, at the end of snail time).

So, it seems it would be easy to get the GI to stay off in theory... but I'm now concerned that leaving a solenoid driver "on" for a long time might not be a good idea. Same concern for the coil inside the relay itself: Would either or both of those items burn up, being switched on for a few minutes at a stretch? Or would we be OK since they are not high-current items like a playfield coil*?

I'd still need to figure out how to connect an auxiliary component to that relay: since it is mounted directly on the power supply PCB, it may not actually be feasible. In which we would have to simply change the code to keep the GI "off" during snail time... and then use another solenoid output to drive an external light.

*Ugh, but I have another thought: that existing relay would only work to power the UV light, so long as the UV light was being powered by the same power supply board/circuit. I don't think that's feasible since it's a 30W spotlight! What was the total wattage of the original GI string? (I obviously need to do more research. Projects like this often reveal I only still know "just enough to be dangerous" on some things but that's why I try them, so I can learn...)

#46 19 days ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

I'm now concerned that leaving a solenoid driver "on" for a long time might not be a good idea. Same concern for the coil inside the relay itself: Would either or both of those items burn up, being switched on for a few minutes at a stretch? Or would we be OK since they are not high-current items like a playfield coil*?

This is not a concern.

Quoted from goingincirclez:

I'd still need to figure out how to connect an auxiliary component to that relay: since it is mounted directly on the power supply PCB

Use the 2 pin connector that is already there with a Z connector to power another relay to turn on and off the UV lamp. Mount this relay on the lamp so that the wires coming down to the machine are only low voltage ones. A 24 volt DC relay to switch the 120 volt AC lamp power at the lamp.

Quoted from goingincirclez:

What was the total wattage of the original GI string? (I obviously need to do more research.

Not a concern when using a additional relay.

#47 18 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Use the 2 pin connector that is already there with a Z connector to power another relay to turn on and off the UV lamp. Mount this relay on the lamp so that the wires coming down to the machine are only low voltage ones. A 24 volt DC relay to switch the 120 volt AC lamp power at the lamp.

Oooh, I like this idea. Would two relays be too much of a draw for the single solenoid output signal, though?

As for putting the relay on the UV lamp: I think I understand your intent. But the power for the UV lamp has to come from somewhere, and the relay is merely in the line regardless of where it sits... so that line voltage still needs to get to the lamp... and since it'll be mounted over the machine, there will still be line voltage in that run. No way around that which I can see. Not a bad idea to put conduit in the cantilever to protect the line though.

#48 18 days ago

These relays are such high resistance, they won't be problematic. Look at the flipper relay. it's ON for the entire time the game is playing. sure it runs at 5volts... but look at gottlieb games. their 'game over' relay (30volts) is 'on' the entire length of the game, without issue.

#49 18 days ago

2 relays run from the transistor, no issue.

I know that there would still be a 110 volt cord to the UV lamp, I just didn't want to see you put the relay in the back box and run another 110 volt cord into the back box. Much safer for you to run low voltage wiring instead.

#50 18 days ago

Thanks for the advice and help, guys. I really appreciate it.

How does this look as a suitable relay?

amazon.com link »

Looks like it would actually support two separate signals / devices. Of course right now I am only concerned with one. But the second option might prove handy in the future.

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