Maybe they shouldn't do an LE, I don't know

So if they make 1000 Star Trek Le's and sell 10k premiums, is that not limited?

Or what about selling 7k AC/DC premiums and 1k in Le's....doesn't make sense to me...

Funny how you ignore the other part of my post, and instead chose to concentrate on the part where I used a bit of hyperbole to make a point.

But when you say something like:

I don't think that my interpretation was far off the mark. I mean if Pinside is the last place you go if you want to buy a pin, it seems logical that you are saying that you are going to get screwed, right?

Simply not true based on my personal experience. At all.

I thought the Market tab at the top of the page was for strict For Sale posts with no comments.

I see posts in the general forum as basically asking for comments which can cut both ways. You get maximum exposure but you will also get comments you may not appreciate. Posts in the Marketplace forum sometimes get comments, but it is not the same as the general forum.

I actually like the multiplicity.

I don't care. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen all the time. I have been very happy with the several pins that I've purchased from listings here, and I think people who have bought pins from me feel the same way.

Are you looking for "killer deals"? Is that the issue? It seems that you are looking at this from one side of the coin only: the buyers. Why? Shouldn't a deal be fair to both sides?

Maybe your idea of a great value is different than mine or others here?

Have you read the DE Star Wars thread? It seems ironic that the whole purpose of this thread, according to you, is to say that Pinsider's don't watch out for each other when there are plenty of threads where people give advice and criticize things when they are priced out of line.

I disagree,
First i ask my friends if no interest in buying my pin then I list a game FS, I put it on pinside and if unsold in a day or two I list it on CL usually for a just alittle more. Of the last ten games sold its about 40% CL 40% pinside 20% friends. F_ck eBay.
In the case of buying the last ten game are about same ratio.
Regardless of buying or selling my preference is working with close friends, pinside, then strangers on CL. Just my 2 cents.

Man, I dunno where else you're looking if you think Pinside is the worst place to buy. It sounds to me like you're just unhappy with the price inflation, and I hear you, but if there's some magic place it doesn't happen it's news to me. Now I'm on the West Coast, our prices are just higher in general, maybe you still see better deals on CL than I do.

To be fair, No one is really making classic arcade games any more. This site has thirved in the last few years with a different type of hobbyist collector. Perhaps many of the people here would not have ever joined RGP or KLOV. It's different, but no-one makes us sign up and post here. I like it.

Evidence that contradicts what you are saying isn't the point?

Guess we are right back where we started: still don't know what the point of this thread is.

Wow! What a train wreck this thread has turned out to be. It's been enjoyable to watch though. Thanks guys.

Dude, seriously. You think because I didn't want to sell my collection unless someone threw stupid money at me, that effects the market? THis makes no sense at all. I wasn't willing to part with my stuff at all. but there is a point when you have to say, there is no such thing as not for sale. If it wasn't for Jacks NIB price announcement, and Stern Following suite raising NIB prices to over double of what they were 2 years ago. All the Old stuff wouldn't have shot up. Meaning the prices that I was willing to let my personal collection go for, would have never sold. 2 years ago, I would have said if you want it, that's what I would let it go for, and i'd still have my entire collection. Because NIB prices were still reasonable. And if someone can buy NIB for 3500-4200. Why would they pay 3k for Tommy, or SS, STTNG and the like? When couple $100 more, they can buy NIB. Since people don't seem to care what they pay, and have money pouring out of their asses, and preorder on shit they never played. Paying 3k for STTNG seems like an ok deal with NIB the way they are. Hence making, What I thought, Was stupid money for my collection. Seem to be in the ball park for going rate. if you asked me 5 years ago what it would take to get those games out of my hands. I would have told you the same prices. Unfortunately for me, the prices raised up to the point, where I think it's absolutely stupid money, and market are fairly close to each other. I'd never pay those prices and I think you guys are insane to pay them as well.

So in other words you made out big time by the recent price increases that you were complaining about. Would that be a fair assessment???

But i'm not happy about it. I had my collection right where I wanted it, and it took me 8-9 years to get it there. Just because someone is willing to let it go for such and such a price, still doesn't mean they are overjoyed to see it go. I loved my games, but all material possessions have a price. They will return someday when I refind them for prices I think are reasonable. But I do miss them.

This post reminds about the time I remember back when the PT Cruiser first came out. Chrysler dealers sent out notices to all of thier dealers telling them if they were caught gouging above the MSRP price. They would be penalized by not honoring the dealers caught raising prices any more PT Cruisers at all. Seems Chrysler wanted everyone that wanted one the ability to get thier hands on one without having to pay an extra premium for it, even if it meant they had to wait a little longer due to the high demand for them.

Stern has been doing a good job of releasing some good solid games the last few years and its unfortunate that (some) of thier distributors feel the need to cash in on that aspect, I get these guys are a business and need to make money, but IMO, there is a difference on making money and just plain gouging. But in the end, its the buyers that are the one to blame, if they are willing to be the one that gets gouged, thats really where the fault lies, with the buyer in this whole debate. Not the sellers.

Ill tell you what though, if Stern keeps making good solid games and JJP once games start rolling out of thier factory by the truck loads, I cant see anyone wanting to pay big bucks for 90s era DMD games like they have been the last year or 2. I dont think many are going to want to pay 7-10K plus for a used game from the 90's/00 era when that same amount of money gets you a good solid NIB title.

I think they're ridiculous, I wouldn't say I'm happy! But they're in line with the prices I see everywhere else, it's just the reality of the market, love it or not. It's not reasonable to expect people to sell below that, even if you hope they're being fair.

Seriously, where else are you seeing a more fair market? I would genuinely love to know. It's definitely not eBay, it's not the Mr Pinball classifieds, at least for Los Angeles area it's not Craigslist, so maybe I'm missing something. Where would you go if you were in the market since you think this is a terrible place for it?

I think you are wrong here. Games such as TAF Creech TZ SS IJ AFM STTNG MB MM CC heck BR FH Diner Taxi etc. etc. etc. are being restored by a lot and nothing will change the fact that they are great games! Lets see how long sterns, which I own and enjoy, would last on route after seeing the amount of plays the older bally williams pins did. I go to OC NJ in the summer and they have a boardwalk arcade with 20 pins in it. When you walk up to them the MM and TAF look the same age with less broken parts then the Rolling Stones IM Batman and a few other sterns.

Lol "I'm not happy about it"

You're hilarious buddy. Don't come bitching about the prices going up and using the excuse "I'm not happy about all the money I made. If you really weren't happy then don't sell them. Send me your address ill send you a case of Kleenex for your hardship!

Prices are prices so why should it be ,
you and I be paying Stern so happily !!!
So they're different colors
And they're different T's
And different people have different needs
It's obvious you hate Stern
Though they've done nothing wrong
They've never even met you
So what could They have done

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another Pin
Help me understand

Prices are prices so why should it be ,
you and I be paying Stern so happily !!!

Help me understand

Now you're punching and you're kicking
And you're Hating on this T
I'm relying on your common decency
So far it hasn't surfaced
But I'm sure it exists
It just takes a while To put Dirty Donny's
T On the Premium machine to handle your Fits

I can't understand
What makes a man
Hate another Pin
help me understand !!

Depeche Baltar!

I DO enjoy pinball, sure!
I just don't want it to make me poor!
the end

Here are some reasons why I think prices are sky rocketing:

1. The bar on new machines was lowered to such an extent that as the machines improve they look like a good value, even at the higher prices.

2. Scalpers creating frenzy and artificial demand. Manufacturers raise prices accordingly.

3. Many new people getting into the hobby who just see this as the way it is. And now it is the way it is .

4. Our desire to get the latest title for fear of being left out of something great (see #2).

5. The feeling that something new and unknown will be better than something that already exists.

I would encourage people who are new to pinball to try some of the older titles, after all they will probably be new to you .

Sometimes I can't help but shake my head at the new pin frenzy (myself included!).

For example, if Stern's Striker Xtreme was released today with a better theme, people would be clamoring to get such a full featured LE and it would probably be 10k by Christmas . After all, it has:

1) 3 flippers
2) Metal habitrails (Woo Hoo! return to metal habitrails)
3) Visible ball lock area
4) Four Bank controlled drop target assembly (like Hulk) protecting a custom molded Goalie.
5) Goalie rotates with magnet to guard goal (wow! what a cool interactive toy).
6) Player controlled post to set up upper flipper shot (yes, actual player control!)
7) Hand drawn art
9) Good build quality (metal apron and slide rails)

I actually find it to be a simple but fun machine to play. I just got it though so I'm still in that "honeymoon" phase .

you must be one of those that has a short attention span, and a game lasts about a month in his collection and flips it out for something else. THat's not the way I roll. When I like a game, it stays for the long haul. Since i've played a majority of everything that's been released, I know exactly what I want in my collection. Unless something new is made that is above and beyond my favorites, that will never change. But when money is thrown around, sometimes it's too high to pass up, as long as I know down the road I can get another one in similar or better condition down the road for the same price or cheaper.

Some of you talk (er, whine?) about PRICE as if its some mysterious number that the evil sellers conjure up on their own simply to gouge the buyers....

The currently high prices are not a result of some secret organization of LE-model-hoarders or Secret Order of Pin Flippers....

Newsflash: Sellers don't set the price, buyers do.

Some BUYERS are in such a frenzy for machines they will pay for LE models of games they've never plunged the first ball on...

Some buyers will PREPAY YEARS in advance for machines not even designed!

So, ask not for whom the price bell tolls, it tolls for thee....

Exactly. Ones who pay the prices are to blame. People have been asking 3 or 4x's the real value for a decade on ebay. Doesn't mean they sell. Once they started selling from a lot of newbs buying, then that became the norm. Mostly due to NIB prices going up. Which is still the key reason.

Someone please send Neo a box of Kleenex stat!!!!

Agree 100%.....if you don't like it fine dont pay the higher prices. But don't come in here and tell me how I should spend the money I worked hard for. I like most others on here could care less.

I see what you did there ....!

*rocks out to Metallica*

Don't forget about jamming as many LEDs, of as many colors, as is technically possible into every game. And if you run into technical limits then more LEDs should be inserted through mods.

Neo...
Got any advice on how much I should spend for lunch today? I'm kinda concerned I'd might spend more than you think is acceptable.

Then we'd have to go through another thread on how I shouldn't purchase an overpriced lunch before it's prepared

That's all well and good, but I think that $6.00 is a ripoff for a premium taco. I just paid $2.00 for a taco from the taco truck last week and it was way better than your taco. Personally, I blame the taco buyers hoarding up all the tacos but not eating them. With the cost of restoration I would think that would factor into new taco sales, I'll grant you that, but what's really going on is that eBay tacos idiots are driving up prices. Frankly, I don't even LIKE tacos. I just like to argue about them.

Where did I ever do that?

Sorry I may have been trying to quote Neo and hit the wrong tab by mistake.

Say what you want, but you guys overpaying for shit, directly effects the rest of us. SO yes we have the right to bitch, because the overpaying and preordering people are the ones making the price machine move forward. So those of us that have been around awhile, and know about NIB's being $3500-$4100 just a meer 3 years ago, and seeing you guys be the cause of us having to pay double that now, we will be a little salty.

Of course it does. It directly put money in your pocket when you decided to capitalize by selling your games at prices you thought were too high but many others didn't think so. Imagine that. People are actually willing to pay more for games than you. Now that you've made good money, you bitch because prices are too high. Someone needs to come over here and slap me upside the head, cause this makes no sense whatsoever.

Neo, you need to close your mouth. You've been talking out of both sides of it this entire thread.

I'd rather pay less for games, than cash in on the few I have.

And if you notice. I've always bitched about the price machine moving up, even before selling half my shit. In fact, the rant about the prices is what started the whole game list in the first place.

Neo is just stating what it was and what it has become.

If I had the ability to double or triple my money, I would have. I'm sure many other people have as well. Not going to blame him or anyone for taking advantage of the current market.

The current market demand has driven up the prices. The dramatic rise in price of the newly produced games has inflated the overall market. How's that a good thing for the "hobby"? It's a good thing if you're a producer but a bad thing if your the consumer.

High prices can negatively effect the "resurgence" of pinball as the newcomer to the market may say "too rich for my blood".

A 200%-300% increase in any market in a two-three year period is referred to as a bubble.

IMO, when all of these newly produced games start falling off route, the price on everything is going to tumble. There will be so many "new used sterns" in the home marketplace that it will come back to Earth. Yeah, it won't affect the price of the HUO LEs, but those of us uninterested in that group of games will survive just fine.

Not sure what the point of this thread is. Prices of anything always reflect demand. When demand is high like it is now, they go up.

It is not a complicated topic, nor are people intentionally trying to screw people that are new to the "hobby". There has been a huge infusion of new blood into this hobby and the prices reflect that. This has happened before in the early 2000's, and now its happening again. Some of those people got out and some prices softened for the less in demand games.

Now there is enough demand that most every title has seen at least a 25% increase in price if not more. EM's and some early SS's have remained the same but if you only like DMD's then you are gonna pay for them.

If pinball is too expensive for you then maybe a different hobby is in order? It's hilarious to see people in here complaining about game x being too high or that Stern is ruining the market.

No one is taking into consideration the devaluation of the dollar that is happening daily, nor the new expense of healthcare for the employees that produce the games we love, etc.

This is a cheap hobby compared to motorcycles, cars, high end home theater, etc. At least our "toys" hold their value if not appreciate a little.

The goal of this site is not to protect a buyer from themselves. If they really want something then they have every right to pay as much as they want for the item. There is no right or wrong with that, that is the market.

Do you think many LEs or even Premiums even go on route?

I assumed the bulk of those go to home users, the "pros" go on route?

Any route operators here? Are you buying the higher price tag pins to route?

Man remember the days when gas was $1 a gallon. Lol

Do you think many LEs or even Premiums even go on route?

Some LEs go on route. Lanes and Games Arcade here has LE AC/DC, Wolverine X-Men, and Hulk Avenger, and the owner has said he'll put out a Metallica LE when it comes out.

splash_1-13.jpg

Pinball Wizard Arcade here has a WOZ on location now and will be replacing it with a WOZLE when those are eventually released.

And don't forget tons of other unnecessary mods that work towards taking these machines farther and farther from how they were originally designed.

In just about every other type of collecting-based hobby the goal is restoration and preservation, but around these parts, the goal seems to be focused on adding as much shit to a game as you can.

Hence the South Park Toilet Edition thread.

That clip is high-larious!

Keep it in the context of the time period Neo is referring to. Bread was 1 cent at one time...

We totally used to watch that guy, late and night. It was crazy entertaining. But in the context of pinball, it just took on a whole new meaning.