(Topic ID: 311463)

Yoppsicle Socket-Free LEDs for Classic Bally/Stern - Vids Review

By vid1900

2 years ago


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  • 29 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by sparky672
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    12
    #1 2 years ago

    Nearly everybody likes to use LEDs in their games. They run cool, save energy, they don't melt your inserts when the transistor sticks on and they can give a color boost to old, faded inserts.

    Classic Bally and Sterns have some well known problems using LEDs. LEDs use 1/10 the power, so they often flicker by not drawing enough current and many of those bulb sockets are long past their useful age. Either the internal spring has broken, or the assembly crimp has lost it's tension - causing intermittent lamp illumination.

    Some past fixes were to add a resistor to each socket to reduce flicker (very labor intensive), get a "resistor board kit", or a whole new Lamp Board with modern design.

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/classic-ballystern-led-adapter-kit-review

    As far as the loose sockets, you could solder the ground lead to the socket tit, or buy a new socket for $1.50

    IMG_20220305_174049 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_174049 (2) (resized).jpg
    #2 2 years ago

    David Yopp had a different solution.

    What if you could skip the socket altogether? That would make those connections much more reliable.

    What if the LED already had the resistor soldered to it? That would skip soldering on resistors, kits or new modern boards.

    What if the LEDs were less expensive than buying a standard LED and a replacement socket? Meet the Yoppsicle:

    IMG_20220302_195151 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_195151 (2) (resized).jpg
    #3 2 years ago

    Right now the Yoppsicles come in sheets of 50 LEDs

    You can get Warm White that look great under Yellow, Amber, Red and White inserts

    Or You can get Cool White that look good under White, Blue and Green inserts.

    How do you decide if your White Inserts want Cool or Warm illumination? It's a judgement call. Warm color pallet games like Supersonic look better in Warm White. Xenon and Vector look better in Cool White.

    There is no wrong answer, but I suggest you test your inserts with a few conventional Cool White and Warm White bulbs - before you solder in a bunch of Yoppsicles.

    See what looks best in your game.

    #4 2 years ago

    Before you start soldering, you want to make sure the lamps work.

    You sure don't want to put the game back together and find some dead lamps have been soldered in.

    Touch a 6 VDC wall wart to each lamp and make sure she's good.

    The slot where the mounting screw goes is Pos, the pad is Neg

    I bought a few hundred of these, and they were all good! (which is better than when I go through a bag of conventional LEDs, and always find a few bad ones (or reverse polarity ones))
    IMG_20220302_202646 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_202646 (2) (resized).jpg

    #5 2 years ago

    You want to carefully break the lamps from the sheet frame.

    Some Duck Bill Pliers make easy work of this task with a quick up/down motion

    IMG_20220302_200437 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_200437 (2) (resized).jpg
    #7 2 years ago

    Get ready for a lot of desoldering....

    Some people may just do a few lamps, but I imagine to get the colors/brightness to match, most people are going to do an entire playfield.

    This means you have a ship ton of desoldering and re-soldering to do.

    Rule #1 DO NOT DESOLDER 100 LAMPS WITH THE PLAYFIELD IN THE VERTICAL POSITION !!!!!

    Put the playfield in a rotisserie ( https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-quick-and-dirty-rotisserie-guide ) or lay it across 2 games with a folded up towel at each end. You don't have to disconnect the wiring harness for either solution.

    If you try and desolder all those lamps with a vertical playfield:

    A. You will work at 1/4 speed trying to be extra careful. This will add hours to your job.

    B. You will have to work standing. That makes a sucky job, suckyer - especially if it takes you hours longer

    C. You will have Solder Splash because there is so much solder on the socket bases....and if you've been in the pin-repair biz for more than a day, you know nothing is worse than diagnosing a game with a problem that ends up to be solder splash related. Some of that splash will come back to haunt you years from now, LOL

    So have a seat, and start desoldering...

    a05be65fe14c09e4da613f0b5421ad0106cf5ec6 (resized).jpga05be65fe14c09e4da613f0b5421ad0106cf5ec6 (resized).jpg
    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    Sockets also get wobbly because the waferboard shrinks.

    Absolutely correct!

    #10 2 years ago

    You will need a good soldering iron cranked all the way up, or even a Soldering Gun.

    It's going to take a lot of heat to quickly melt though all that Pos Buss Wire that chains through the playfield.

    All that old solder is not going to want to melt, because it's so oxidized after 4 decades, so put a dab of Solder Paste on each solder joint before you heat it up.

    (sure you could "add a little fresh solder" to each joint, but there is already SO MUCH FRICKIN SOLDER on those lamp bases, I don't recommend you add even more)

    A tiny dab on each joint will do you, and yes, you can dab it on cold, then go back hours latter and heat it up.

    https://www.parts-express.com/CAIG-RSF-R80-2-DeoxIT-Rosin-Soldering-Flux-Jar-56g-341-221
    341-221_HR_0.default (resized).jpg341-221_HR_0.default (resized).jpg

    #11 2 years ago

    Do the ground tabs first, so you can lift the sockets away unimpeded.

    (you might want to do a few at a time at first)

    IMG_20220302_203457 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_203457 (2)_LI (resized).jpg
    #12 2 years ago

    Then do the socket bases.

    These need a ton of heat, and can create a ton of solder splash.

    Take the mounting screw out, and heat the Pos Buss wire up.

    Leave all that solder on the base as you slip it out from under the buss wire:

    IMG_20220305_204756 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_204756 (2)_LI (resized).jpg
    #14 2 years ago

    Some of the old sockets will be loose and junky - throw those right in the trash.

    But keep the solid, good sockets - you'll need then in future repairs, no doubt

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from insight75:

    I like to heat up the socket base while gently pulling it away from the ground wire at the same time......just make sure you pull with pliers as it will get hot.

    It seems like the Pos Buss would be the **ground**, since it's bare, and snakes it's way through the entire playfield; but rest assured, if the Pos Buss touches Ground, the fuse will pop.

    #21 2 years ago

    The Pos Buss wire is brittle, so twist up any stray fibers and solder them together as you go.
    IMG_20220305_181624 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_181624 (2)_LI (resized).jpg

    In this pic you see that I'll use a Warm White on the amber insert, then 3 Cool Whites for the two blue and the one white insert.

    #22 2 years ago

    Here you can see that one of the Yoppsicles would be too long, and would be blocked by the coil bracket.

    I simply cut the ass end off, with a pair of Diags; leaving plenty of clearance from the bracket.

    Sure, I could drill a new hole and find a new orientation......or just instantly use the same hole.

    IMG_20220305_183030 (3)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_183030 (3)_LI (resized).jpg

    Same thing here. 100x quicker to snip the Yoppsi down to size, than to drill a new hole:

    IMG_20220305_190843 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_190843 (2)_LI (resized).jpg

    #23 2 years ago

    There is a little printed target on the backs, to show you exactly where the LED is on the other side.

    Here you can see I aligned it with the tail on the arrow, to ensure full illumination.

    IMG_20220305_184141 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_184141 (2)_LI (resized).jpg

    Since there are no defusers on the LEDs, you have to be careful with your alignment. On normal inserts, just center the target.

    #24 2 years ago

    It's good practice to pre-tin the pads with a little bit of solder.

    I like to do the Neg wires first, the Positive Buss wire second. This way you have less chance of mixing up the Neg wires, lol

    IMG_20220302_204707 (2)_LI (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_204707 (2)_LI (resized).jpg
    #25 2 years ago

    The Buss wire has a **memory** because it is still filled with all that old solder.

    You can hold the wire down with a screwdriver, as you solder. Hold it for a few seconds after the solder solidifies.

    Move along in sequential order; some of the heat will carry over from the last joint, making the job go a little faster

    IMG_20220305_175828 (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_175828 (resized).jpg
    #26 2 years ago

    This is the look of reliability...

    IMG_20220302_211845 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220302_211845 (2) (resized).jpg
    #27 2 years ago

    From the topside, you can see how they look unlit:

    IMG_20220305_214916 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_214916 (2) (resized).jpg
    #28 2 years ago

    ...and lit:

    IMG_20220305_214915 (2) (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_214915 (2) (resized).jpg
    #29 2 years ago

    The Red, Amber, White and Yellow inserts look excellent

    But the Blue and Green inserts look washed out compared to the color matched Blue and Green LEDs that were previously installed.
    IMG_20220305_214309 (resized).jpgIMG_20220305_214309 (resized).jpg

    #30 2 years ago

    The Yoppsicles, like any product, have a few pros and cons to consider.

    Pros:

    More reliable than any bulb/socket mechanical combination

    Less expensive than replacing all those EOL sockets (especially the crappy Bally 555 sockets)

    No need to solder resistors to sockets to fix LED flicker (time saver)

    No need to buy expensive aftermarket Lamp Boards to fix LED flicker (money saver)

    Cons:

    No color matched Green or Blue LEDs available, resulting in washed out appearance in those color inserts.

    Really bright on small or transparent inserts

    No defusers available, so not the best choice for Backglass illumination .

    Wont work on Bally 6803 games

    -
    -

    -

    Conclusion:

    I can see a lot of these being installed in the future, especially when people are doing playfield swaps or restoration.

    Totally solid product, not a single dud out of hundreds tested.

    Highly Recommended.

    -
    -
    -

    Cool White:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1360-yoppsicle/05576-yoppsicle-omni-led-stick-panel-of-50-cool-white

    Warm White:

    https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1360-yoppsicle/05558-yoppsicle-omni-led-stick-panel-of-50-warm-white

    #35 2 years ago
    Quoted from Skidave:

    I'm sure colored LED Yopps are on their way too.

    I'd love to see that

    It would be worth pulling Fat Jon's Xenon out again to do the Blues and Greens for sure

    #38 2 years ago
    Quoted from Kent_Diego:

    I would like the option of extra bright. Maybe with 4 LEDs for larger inserts or more opaque inserts.

    I can't think of any classic Bally/Stern insert that would require more light than these.

    Remember, if you make the inserts crazy bright, you have to make the GI even brighter to not lose the ball in the glare.

    These old games have very few GI bulbs, Xenon has what, 13 GI bulbs in the original configuration?

    -

    At the Ohio show a few years back, all the games had a few people waiting on them - except Pinbot.

    I started a game, and immediately knew why; someone had put extra bright LEDs in all the inserts.

    It was a blinding mess that ruined a great game.

    We were teasing the owner, who said he had only put the LEDs in the night before, and had not play tested it, LOL

    #44 2 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    But do you have to remove the old socket? Can't you just remount the socket on top of the board contacts...or break it off at the 90 with a few bends, like you did with the circuit boards?

    Of course you could just mount the socket base on top of the Yopps....maybe somebody with only a 15w soldering pencil would prefer do that

    #45 2 years ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Please let someone else go down the embarrassing path of colored LEDs...keep yours pure!

    Once you see the deep blue of an insert get blasted into pale blue, you will want the option of color matching Blue and Green - without any kind of defuser, these are crazy bright

    It's not like anyone is going to use them in a clown puke GI scenario, right?

    1 month later
    #59 1 year ago

    ^ the green and blue are going to sell like crazy!

    Let me know if you need a beta tester...

    3 weeks later
    #61 1 year ago

    I'm back stateside today, and installing some new goodies....zoom in for money shot
    IMG_20220512_215135.jpgIMG_20220512_215135.jpg

    1 week later
    #66 1 year ago

    Yoppsicle part II:

    So I got some sheets of colored yopps, but the hard part was going to be how to demonstrate the color differences with a camera.

    Even trying to use a White Balance Card was hardly of any use in getting the results to the sensor behind the lens

    I decided to just do one of each color, and describe what my eyes are seeing.....

    -

    -

    On the Xenon exit tube ring of green, I replaced insert #35 and the Red center center insert with color matched yopps

    IMG_20220519_203744__01.jpgIMG_20220519_203744__01.jpg

    #67 1 year ago

    The red insert became a deep, saturated red - very nice.

    The 35 insert became very green, the other green inserts look yellowish and washed out by comparison.

    It's hard to photograph, but in person it's night and day

    IMG_20220519_205007__01__01__01__01.jpgIMG_20220519_205007__01__01__01__01.jpg

    #68 1 year ago

    To try the Blue yopp, I did the 20,000 insert on the Left

    It's much more saturated in person, and wow, the blue pops with the Yopp

    In the photo, you can see how washed out the letters of XENON are below the 20,000 also.

    IMG_20220519_204655__01.jpgIMG_20220519_204655__01.jpg

    #69 1 year ago

    There are Orange and Yellow yopps too.

    The inserts below the blue XENON letters are amber.

    Which color yopp would be the better match?

    I installed the Yellow in the N, and the Orange in the E - side by side (all the other letters are lit by Warm White )

    IMG_20220519_203122__01.jpgIMG_20220519_203122__01.jpgIMG_20220519_203257__01.jpgIMG_20220519_203257__01.jpg

    #70 1 year ago

    So side by side, the Yellow N looks exactly like the the other letters lit by Warm White. No difference in brightness either. If you paid me, I could not tell you which letter was lit by Yellow.

    On the other hand, the Orange E, is slightly dimmer than the Warm White, but very orange.

    In person, the Orange looks quite rich in color.

    So which color looks better under an Amber insert? The Yellow or Warm White look very traditional, closer to incandescent. The Orange gives a very saturated color; maybe not as authentic, but it's richness is really nice.

    IMG_20220519_204607__01.jpgIMG_20220519_204607__01.jpg

    #71 1 year ago

    I lit up each LED while still on the sheet, and again, no duds! Quality stuff here.

    So after trying each color, here are my conclusions:

    Red - Looks great, both in clear and opaque red inserts. Brightness is as bright as a Warm White.

    Green - Amazing. Deep, saturated green. Bright as a Cool White

    Orange - Deep, saturated Orange color. Dimmer than a Warm White (but many would consider that a good thing).

    Yellow - Looks the same as a Warm White under a clear Amber or Opaque Yellow insert. I might go as far as to say 'this is an unnecessary color' to keep in your kit. Might as well give more Green or Blue lamps in place of the yellow (for instance, there were not enough Green lamps to do a Xenon, nor would there be enough Blue to do a Vector)

    Blue - Hell Yeah! These make your old, faded blue inserts pop. Brightness is as bright as a Cool White.

    (there is no Purple, as I can't think of any SS Classic Bally with a purple insert)

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