Hmmm should I spend $350 for a new upgraded board or just take a risk of my house burning down with my family in it? Better yet, JJP replace everyones' boards dammit.

If it were my first wife I would take the risk. Now that I have finally gotten the trophy wife I'm spending the $350.

ALittleFire?.jpg

Maybe not testing.. but I would think it would impact their listing. But I couldn't find any listings at all for WoZ in the UL database based on the searching I did. Anyone got the cert # ?

i would think JJP would want to replace that board with everyone that has the old revision immediately. Especially if it frys a whole ton of shit. Lot easier to replace all these boards, than having to replace everything down the road. If they trade the boards, all they have to do is rework them and they can use them in future games. That way it isn't as hard of a hit. Just a little shipping charges and a little hassle. But saves big headaches later. They are a new company. If they want to survive and charge the asinine prices they want to charge. Then they should be going out of their way to recall this shit.

using refurb'd boards in new games would get them in even more trouble with the likes of the FTC, etc. Can't sell 'factory refurbished' parts as new. You can use them as replacement parts for warranty work - but they can't hide them in new games.

they could use them as replacements. I've seen boards from DE and williams that had revisions done to them and they just put revision stickers over the board number, because they reworked the old set with different components.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part about it catching on fire. But if you are really worried maybe you should get rid of all you electronics in your house. I mean if you are going to over sensationalize this why stop at JJP? Do you own other pinball machines? May want to give up pinball all together! Hell, you better just go off the grid!!!

There was no part about that. That was just the bullshit part.

Revising existing stock is not the same thing as taking in returns and refurbishing them and putting into new Inventory.

Updating existing inventory to new revisions is still 'new parts' - the parts were not sold/shipped/returned.

they still could be revised and sent out as replacements for faulty or damaged ones.

Just what we need. Another nasty person on Pinside. That's two posts I've seen from this guy in the last week or so (the last one directed at me), and both have the same derisive tone. Why don't you head on over to RGP and you and Frank Fuhrter can play switch with each other?

There's not been a single house burned down yet so that's overreacting. The incidence of board failure is pretty low so I can't see JJP replacing everyone's. Anyone that has dealt with JJP's service department knows they are top notch - they go beyond their way to help you. If it wasn't for Frank and Lloyd I wouldn't have considered a Hobbit but I ended up ordering one despite my WOZ problems. Let's not grab our torches and march to Frankenstein's castle just yet. I'd just play my WOZ until there's a problem - any problem. Then mention you heard about board problem and see what they can do for you. The $350 is a core charge and you get that back.

Seems like someone has a valid concern. You reaction to that is more than stupid.

If your house does burn down do you think they will replace that?

Or they could send you a box to send your existing board in for rework. Then there isn't an issue about how to reuse the boards and new boards don't have to be made. Somebody mentioned that is a $3part that needs to be replaced, seems pretty simple.

I had to go back and look at my posts to be sure, but I never said "fire" other than to say it probably would not catch fire. I do, however, turn off my soldering iron when I'm finished using it. I don't leave it plugged in, inside my game. Granted, your soldering iron is hotter than the melting point of solder (around 280C), but when these power supplies fail, that's how hot they're getting, at a minimum. There are parts flowing off the boards.

I get that you want to defend the game you love and the company that built it. I love the game, too. I want to keep mine and continue playing it. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore this type of problem.

If I had this problem with one of my products, I would replace them proactively. I truly do think that as they get used more, the failure rate will start to increase. Running the inductors out of spec will cause them to degrade, leading to more heat. Mine is running at 20C over the maximum, and that is in a climate controlled basement.

I'd be happy to schedule an appointment to send mine back and to be out of commission for a couple weeks while they do it. I know this isn't an option for most, but I'd also be willing to change the part myself if I knew they wouldn't end up blaming me for any other problems that happen down the line.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get the board replaced only how you go about it. I've had my new board for about 2 months now.

Hey give him a break, he probably just woke up and hasn't had his first cup of joe yet.

The board is in a metal case which likely reduces the risk of fire beyond the board to a negligible amount. My biggest concern is being out $350+ if this inductor coil part fails and damages the board. If there is a known fix we should be able to preemptively do that. It would be great if a service bulletin was issued to inform us of the fix that could be done.

Have not heard anything from JJP on my trouble ticket. I'd be willing to pay a core charge or just not use the game while I wait for a replacement.

(Update below; heard from Jack himself)

"Yet" um ok

can someone point me to the best replacement part and where to get it.. I won't tell anyone who put it in . thanks.
if it ever needs service I'll put the old one back in

If they don't like the content of your ticket or your "problem" will cost them money, they will just ignore it.

They need to address this issue and stop hiding it! If it's not a concern then publicly make a statement as to why the rest of us with the old inductor should just go on and not worry about this! Instead they stay silent... Pretty sure I'll have an ECLE for sale pretty soon if they don't address this known dangerous problem!

Just amending this a bit, ok I admit this was a Butthurt post and I didn't give JJP time to respond with info. If they are as someone posted reaching out to affected owners then that is great. I am 10/29/13 build date so out of the range but still will keep an eye on the game and as someone else said I don't leave mine on when I'm not around anyway... I'll wait to see how this all pans out before posting kneejerk as I did in this post...

Tom

JJP's newest le: Wozsmkle

Speak with your wallet! Amend a threat to sell or return your game to the ticket. That should get their attention.

That's a hard question to answer.

First, all we know is what we can see by comparing boards. The inductor is obvious, but other changes may not be. Without JJP telling us what to do, we're taking an educated guess.

Second, the inductor that looks the best (dual winding), I haven't been able to find anything off-the-shelf that even looks like it.

The Bourns 2301-V-RC has turned up a couple of times, and judging by the specs, it does look like a good choice. It could need other parts changed along with it to run optimally. It is available at Mouser:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=2301-V-RC

Update. Jack contacted me via email. They are looking into this. Tech support from JJP has always been great in my opinion.

hyperbole-04.png

Some key info to reduce concern completely for those with machines outside of this date range ... and to hopefully lessen concern for those with machines inside this date range.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Cross-posted from Jersey Jack Forum (with permission):
Jersey Jack 12:22 PM (1 hour ago)

We had a few of the inductors get warm and it is a OEM part issue with a certain supplier in a few selected games – we now are researching those serial numbers and contacting those customers. It is a small number of games built between 12/2013 - 9/8/2014

Good for them if they do make swaps available to everyone with a defective board. Probably warranted by the circumstances.

I just wanted to say that they didn't charge me the $350 and then give it back after the part was returned. They just said they would charge my account if I didn't return it to them. They have had this policy on GI boards and all parts as far as I know. It seems fair to return the part so they can follow up on the cause.

As someone has posted Jack said it's an OEM part issue and they are reaching out to potentially affected owners. I really don't think an actual fire and burning up the game/house is at all likely. I would just continue to use the game and just not leave it on and unattended. You'll notice the smell before it melts down completely. I don't normally leave any of my games on when I'm not around anyway since anything could go wrong with aging electrical components.

Correct-JJP only charges the $350 if you don't return the core. 'Sorry if I misled anyone to thinking they charged you then you get it back. Nice to have JJP address this even if your WOZ is out of warranty. I hope everyone gets a satisfactory solution from JJP - they seem to be a company that cares about their product.

That's the trend in electronics these days ... turn repairmen into boardswappers. Keep in mind that the number of people that could service them are dwindling (i.e. companies can't find people to hire to repair stuff). Not many people are into general electronics repair anymore. There's also a matter of DIP packaging kind of going end of life overall. Plus assembly is cheaper.

Though that mess looks like a pain to clean up, it isn't. Also, in many cases, it's easier to repair surface mount boards vs. thru hole. Seriously, it's a lot easier than it appears.

What baffles me is why JJP wouldn't have simply contracted out the power supply design or used off the shelf ones. PC ones are dirt cheap (you get 3.3V, 5V, and 12V for next to nothing) ... you'd really only need a supply that provides 24V and 48V for flashers and solenoids (P3 goes this route ... that's wise ).

Using discreet components and controllers for power could become a major problem as many of those switching power supply controllers/regulators go end of life quickly. They'll be redesigning that power section every couple of years if they chose parts that don't sell well overall! At least with a contractor/supplier, if a part in the supply goes end of life, they'll have you a new one whipped up in no time.

Ok this is better but it makes me wonder how they can tell which small number of games had this particular part issue when the dates effected are span a whole whopping 10 months! Makes you wonder how their records could be this detailed...

Excuse me but aren't Hyperbole's, by nature incorrect!!!

From reading Pinside, it appears there are 4 reported boards.

Are there any others?

Owner – Date of Manufacture on the circuit board, location operated, revision

1 Movie Theater – 11/5/2013, Rapid City , SD, rev?3
2 TimeBandit – 05/13/2013, Syndney, OZ, rev 3
3 Danisme – 11/05/2013,Visalia, CA, rev 3
4 Sandersj, - DOM???, Huntsville, AL, rev?? (larger coil)

I'll sell my old one if anybody wants it..it just needs a little solder work

woz_ez_repair_circuit.jpg

yikes!

Well here's mine,I'll let you know if I hear from anyone..20151112_194143.jpg

I don't think that was actually his WOZ board. Although if it was I'm sure he will correct me.

Correct. Those are all through hole parts, and WOZ is surface mount.

Just when JJP is promising to do the right thing, one of their biggest defenders muddies the waters again. It's pretty obvious it was a joke, but still...

It's joke - 'should have been pretty obvious as I didn't think anyone in their right mind would want to pay for a used board that looked like that. I've never had a problem with my board but it was replaced when something else blew out.

Pretty obvious it's a stock photo.

Jack emailed me this morning and offered to send a board or just send an inductor. I chose the inductor route since it is easier on both of us and there is no sign of damage on my board.

Once again great support from JJP!

I guess that confirms it is only the inductor that changed. If I knew the 2301-V-RC is what they've settled on, I'd just add one to my next Mouser order and be done with it. Having them cross reference all those boards and try to track down all the owners sounds like a huge pain.

Not quite. John_I's board was already a Rev 3, just with the smaller inductor. A Rev 2 board may require additional changes.