Yikes! WOZ fried. Lots of smoke. Where do I start?

Well, this was a surprise. WoZ just sitting in the basement on attract mode, like any other night. I was at the bench out of field of view, and could smell something. Turned around to see a few inches of smoke collecting at the ceiling. Popped round the corner to find WoZ dead. No screen or inserts. The lights on the headphone jack were still on. There was no smoke visibly coming out of the machine. I turned it off and opened it up to see what melted. Nothing. No evidence of any damage anywhere.
So I guess something has burned up and has to be replaced, but I have no idea where to start looking. All fuses seem good, with all the status LEDs on when it's powered up. No more smoke is being generated when I turn it on so whatever burned has finished burning.
In summary, board status LEDs all look on, headphone jack lights on. Inserts off, screen off, fans off.
I just can't believe there would be that much smoke and no evidence of any burning. Weird. Any thoughts?

#2 8 years ago

HEY

indypinhead

Pinside member

West Bloomfield Township, MI

Sound like a capacitor blew maybe?

#3 8 years ago

MAF

maf-mi

Pinside member

12y 59,050 440

I hope you're the original purchaser.

#4 8 years ago

MJH

TimeBandit

Think I found it. Pretty sure that resistor's not supposed to be at that angle, lol.
Ticket time. Easy fix up.

image.jpeg

#5 8 years ago

HEY

indypinhead

Pinside member

It looks like the fire source may have been Q21

What is that componet directly under the C822 in the pic? Is that the Q21 transistor? It looks out of place in the pic.

#6 8 years ago

MJH

TimeBandit

Quoted from indypinhead:
What is that componet directly under the C822 in the pic? Is that the Q21 transistor? It looks out of place in the pic.

It does look out of place, doesn't it. It's the body that was thrown from the wreck. It's stuck there.
And that R88 resistor is stuck on that angle too. Oh the carnage!

#7 8 years ago

extendo

Inactive member

Adelaide

8y 41,300 279 7

This is a walk in the park for you to fix that. With your skills you could probably design a better board

#8 8 years ago

HEY

indypinhead

Pinside member

I'm wondering if the Q20 transistor is lying around some place on the board as well.

#9 8 years ago

JNS

wellarmed

Pinside member

Berlin

10y 57,400 972 55

A slow motion video of the explosion would have been nice.

#10 8 years ago

HLT

herg

LED OCD

13y 110K 5,551

I'm pretty sure this is a known problem. JJP support sent me this pic while troubleshooting a different problem. This pic is not my board, BTW.

Cap_on_Power_Supply.jpg

#11 8 years ago

HEY

indypinhead

Pinside member

My guess is that out of place component is the Q20 transistor that got dislodged from the board when the Q21 exploded.

Q21 is probably in a bunch of small pieces due to the explosion.

I wonder what could have caused this in the first place.

#12 8 years ago

DFS

Vyzer2

Pinside+ Addict

Jefferson, NJ

12y 103K 2,354 11

OP
Quoted from TimeBandit:
Well, this was a surprise. WoZ just sitting in the basement on attract mode, like any other night. I was at the bench out of field of view, and could smell something. Turned around to see a few inches of smoke collecting at the ceiling. Popped round the corner to find WoZ dead. No screen or inserts. The lights on the headphone jack were still on. There was no smoke visibly coming out of the machine. I turned it off and opened it up to see what melted. Nothing. No evidence of any damage anywhere.
So I guess something has burned up and has to be replaced, but I have no idea where to start looking. All fuses seem good, with all the status LEDs on when it's powered up. No more smoke is being generated when I turn it on so whatever burned has finished burning.
In summary, board status LEDs all look on, headphone jack lights on. Inserts off, screen off, fans off.
I just can't believe there would be that much smoke and no evidence of any burning. Weird. Any thoughts?

How long did you have the game on?

#13 8 years ago

MJH

TimeBandit

Quoted from Vyzer2:
How long did you have the game on?

Under an hour.

#14 8 years ago

WLT

wtatumjr

Pinside member

Corolla, NC

10y 87,050 2,058 8 9

Call Frank - he will send you a new board. This is a fairly common problem. They upgraded mine n/c.

#15 8 years ago

MJH

TimeBandit

Yep, ticket raised. I'm sure it will be fixed up in a jiffy. I'm still coughing though. Capacitor smoke is bad shiz.

#16 8 years ago

HEY

indypinhead

Pinside member

Out of curiosity, what is the manufacture date?

#17 8 years ago

MJH

TimeBandit

Quoted from indypinhead:
Out of curiosity, what is the manufacture date?

Aug '14.

#18 8 years ago

TRG

TomGWI

Pinside member

That's scary. Good thing you caught it in time.

#19 8 years ago

WLT

wtatumjr

Pinside member

Corolla, NC

10y 87,050 2,058 8 9

Mine was Aug. 14 as well. Keep your eye on the monitor driver board - that'll likely go next.

#20 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/does-anyone-know-about-the-wozle-that-supposedly-burned-in-s-dakota#post-2462239

Herg, good observation. There is a cap in parallel to R91. Actually, this reminds me of the similar failure that movie theater in SD saw back in May...

Looking at the photo Lloyd posted, it's clearly the exact same problem. Failure of Q20 and the choke coil. And once more, R88 has gone open by melting itself off the pads. I wonder if it's part of a feedback circuit for Q20. Maybe this caused Q20 to overheat, short, and fry the choke? However, it doesn't appear that R91 has a cap in the operator's photo.

image.jpeg

#21 8 years ago

TRG

TomGWI

Pinside member

So do all the boards have this problem? wtatumjr says it is a common problem. Seems pretty serious if the game and set on fire. Should there not be some type of service bulletin regarding this?

#22 8 years ago

JIM

JIM_Z

Pinside member

New Hartford, CT

12y 56,150 649 7

Quoted from TomGWI:
So do all the boards have this problem? wtatumjr says it is a common problem. Seems pretty serious if the game and set on fire. Should there not be some type of service bulletin regarding this?

#23 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Does JJP have an approximate date range for this failure?

#24 8 years ago

TRG

TomGWI

Pinside member

Just took a pic of mine. Should I be concerned?

image.jpeg

image_1.jpeg

#25 8 years ago

HLT

herg

LED OCD

13y 110K 5,551

Just to be clear, the note about R91 is unrelated as far as I know. Frank sent me that pic to show me where to check for the piggyback cap while troubleshooting lamps. It just happened that the board in his pic had overheated.

#26 8 years ago

TRG

TomGWI

Pinside member

Thanks Herg. Totally speculating but it looks like c106 in the other pictures seems the most crisp.

#27 8 years ago

WLT

wtatumjr

Pinside member

Corolla, NC

10y 87,050 2,058 8 9

Just look at the your doughnut thingy with the wire around it and look for heat damage - the wire turns black. I said "common" problem but maybe well known problem would be a better term (I have no idea of the frequency). It may never happen to you and if it does damage is most likely confined to that board. It's the board to the right of the rear of the cash box. JJP has been very nice about replacing if over heated and remember - never store gasoline, paint (oil base), or C4 in your WOZ.

#28 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

Lake Forest, CA

10y 80,050 4,200 93

I don't have a schematic to look at but from my experience, all those failed, fried, or missing components (melted off the board), are part of a switching regulator circuit. Based on the label of the trim pot, the 12 volt supply.

#29 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Quoted from herg:
Just to be clear, the note about R91 is unrelated as far as I know. Frank sent me that pic to show me where to check for the piggyback cap while troubleshooting lamps. It just happened that the board in his pic had overheated.

I know, but it's good to observe as many details as possible. Now we know R91 is most likely not a factor. Do you know if lamps use part of the 12v circuit to operate?

#30 8 years ago

DLZ

SadSack

Pinside member

10y 48,900 1,589

Thankfully the unit has a UL certification. Therefore, there was never any risk.

#31 8 years ago

SMB

Concretehardt

Pinside+ Frequent

Eugene, OR

11y 145K 10,075 2 27

Quoted from SadSack:
Thankfully the unit has a UL certification. Therefore, there was never any risk.

What about the risk of smoke inhalation

#32 8 years ago

MAX

pinballkyle

Pinside member

Vancouver, BC

11y 47,050 495

Happened to mine. Seems to be an issue for the older multi-ps. JJP should send you a new revision. Once installed you are golden.

#33 8 years ago

TSR

TaylorVA

Reese Rails

13y 116K 8,893 11 7

If this is a problem you would think JJP would try to reach out to owners to be aware of it.
smh again and again.

#34 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Quoted from pinballkyle:
Happened to mine. Common problem for the older multi-ps. JJP should send you a new revision. Once installed you are golden.

Do you know if this affects all power supplies prior to the new design?

#35 8 years ago

DLZ

SadSack

Pinside member

10y 48,900 1,589

Quoted from Concretehardt:
What about the risk of smoke inhalation

Sarcasm doesn't come across very well on the internet. Neither mine, nor your's.

#36 8 years ago

NEO

CaptainNeo

Playfield restorations

Burlington, WI

11y 148K 22,438 37 77 1

this is what sucks about all this surface mounted shit. Makes it really difficult to fix all this stuff. Looks like that part may have melted all the surrounding components turning it into a shit mess to fix. It can't be that much cheaper to get surface mounted stuff over standard components. Unless board makers don't even make serviceable boards anymore

#37 8 years ago

DAN

danisme

Pinside member

Visalia, CA

11y 64,300 452 16 16

I had the same problem, just running in attract mode, but I smelled the overheated coil before it melted down. JJP sent a replacement Power Supply Board and it was an easy swap. The new board has a larger induction coil. I just had to return the old board or the $350 invoice could have been charged to my account. Received my game new in 2/2014, part failed 8/2015. Here is a side by side pic of the two boards, new one on the left...
WOZ side by side Power Supply Boards 08-11-2015.jpg

#38 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-burning-smell-inductor-coil-very-hot-help-please

For reference...

Old: 15-0015-00,REV3 11/5/2013
New: 15-0015-00,REV2 3/10/2015

That's quite a large time span. Here's another case that happened just 3 months ago.

Does anyone have a scan or photo of pages D142 and D143 of the print manual? I would like to know what is causing this and what to look for if you have a REV3 Unified Power Source Board.

#39 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Quoted from TomGWI:
Just took a pic of mine. Should I be concerned?

image.jpeg image_1.jpeg

What is your manufacture date?

#40 8 years ago

DAN

danisme

Pinside member

Visalia, CA

11y 64,300 452 16 16

Quoted from Crash:
For reference...
Old: 15-0015-00,REV3 11/5/2013
New: 15-0015-00,REV2 3/10/2015
That's quite a large time span. Here's another case that happened just 3 months ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/woz-burning-smell-inductor-coil-very-hot-help-please
Does anyone have a scan or photo of pages D142 and D143 of the print manual? I would like to know what is causing this and what to look for if you have a REV3 Unified Power Source Board.

That post from three months ago was my game. Those pages are in the downloadable pdf version of the manual. Is there a particular reason you what a scanned or photo copy?

#41 8 years ago

???

calprog

Pinside+ Frequent

Anaheim, CA

11y 86,550 1,475 44 36

Crazy. My work has been a nightmare with problems galore. Can't wait for this one. Lol

#42 8 years ago

TOM

tommyp

Pinside member

10y 39,400 704 4

Quoted from wtatumjr:
Just look at the your doughnut thingy with the wire around it and look for heat damage - the wire turns black. I said "common" problem but maybe well known problem would be a better term (I have no idea of the frequency). It may never happen to you and if it does damage is most likely confined to that board. It's the board to the right of the rear of the cash box. JJP has been very nice about replacing if over heated and remember - never store gasoline, paint (oil base), or C4 in your WOZ.

C4 won't ignite by flame....

#43 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

I know it was yours, summarizing dates. The D section doesn't go beyond around page 70 in the PDF copy I found on their support site. Am I missing something?

#44 8 years ago

DAN

danisme

Pinside member

Visalia, CA

11y 64,300 452 16 16

Quoted from Crash:
I know it was yours, summarizing dates. The D section doesn't go beyond around page 70 in the PDF copy I found on their support site. Am I missing something?

You probably have the earlier version of the manual from 10/2013. There is a newer version, 3.0, from June 2014 that has those pages. It's available here... http://support.jerseyjackpinball.com/downloads/woz/

#45 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

Thanks. I thought I read somewhere that schematics were only available in the print version.

#46 8 years ago

JGI

John_I

Space Coast Pinball

19y 179K 9,072

So is JJP offering a free replacements for everyone with the old revision?

#47 8 years ago

ABC

Crash

Pinside member

I read somewhere you have to have a bad board, but I'm sure that's negotiable if you can confirm you have a problematic version.

#48 8 years ago

RAR

beelzeboob

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 182K 20,680 1

Quoted from tommyp:
C4 won't ignite by flame....

Hey, Rambo...how the hell do you know that???

#49 8 years ago

CFL

centerflank

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 165K 13,962 7 206

Quoted from Crash:
I read somewhere you have to have a bad board, but I'm sure that's negotiable if you can confirm you have a problematic version.

This reminds me of the Xmen aux board error stern was having, why not jump ahead of the game and get everyone replacements before shit goes bad. The Xmen issue seemed to be even worse as it usually fried the wolvy magnet.

#50 8 years ago

TRG

TomGWI

Pinside member