(Topic ID: 26616)

Yet another tz resetting thread...

By dlbuller

11 years ago


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#17 11 years ago

Lots of incorrect information here. RARELY does the watchdog have anything to do with a WPC resets. Same with bridge rectifiers and caps, they're RARELY actually the cause of resets.

The ONLY way to adequately approach a WPC reset issue is to follow the step-by-step guide on PinWiki. You're COMPLETELY guessing otherwise and probably doing more damage than good if you're just blindly replacing things.

Approach this right and you'll solve your reset issue.

People, please stop perpetuating incorrect information. Replacing bridge rectifiers and capacitors is NOT THE THING TO DO!

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#24 11 years ago
Quoted from PinballHelp:

With all due respect, based on my experience it's not incorrect.
As I mention in my article, the first thing to check is line voltage, then connections, but if problems persist, changing the caps and BRs is a viable option.
I've worked on dozens of WPC games with reset issues that replacing the BRs and Caps completely fixed the reset problems. (By the way, there are some errors in the PinWiki article on WPC resets) And yea, I'm sure some of you guys will say you've repaired a lot more games, but the point is, I've never run into a case where it wasn't either line voltage or the BRs and caps. I'm sure there are plenty of situations where other things could cause these problems, but the most common causes are pretty obvious and well known.
I don't know why you're suggesting that's not a likely culprit when, in my experience it is, and it's the most common recommendation everywhere. Yes, there are some steps you want to investigate prior, and this has been mentioned. Yes, there are some caveats.. you have to be careful when desoldering components to not break traces, but don't suggest that I'm giving bad advice. That's not true. Those caps and BRs have a limited lifespan, and any game over 8+ years will benefit from having them replaced.

Which makes it more likely the problems are the BRs and caps on the driver board. Yea, it could be a cold solder joint or a connector, but if the caps haven't been replaced ever, they have a limited lifespan and their effectiveness diminishes over time.

To put it bluntly and concisely, you're wrong.

First, bridge rectifiers are a solid state device and don't "wear out" or have a limited life span. Capacitors are a different beast, but a great majority of the time they're just fine and have hundreds of hours of life left.

Second, by you simply removing the driver board, soldering the bridge and cap joints, and re-installing the driver board, you've done exactly the same thing as you would have done if you'd just put the old parts back in. Try it next time, go through the motions, do everything you would except actually putting in new parts, I guarantee you'll get the exact same results. I've done extensive testing on this over my thirty years repairing games. The replace the bridge and cap mantra is wrong, dead wrong.

I go behind experienced techs all the time who have replaced the BR and cap to cure a rest issue. I'm not there going over their work several days or weeks later because the bridge and cap replacement worked. It will remedy the problem TEMPORARILY, but bridge and cap replacement is rarely the actual solution. Not to say a bridge won't cause resets, they do go bad and do cause resets, but it's MUCH rarer than most think and just replacing them because everyone says to is just really bad advice.

And third, telling people who have very little/no experience with board work to pull out these components when not necessary, and in the process destroy the traces and through-holes, is not only bad advice, but is careless and damaging to those you're trying to help. Come sit at my bench for a few hours and see how much work I have to do on boards that people have destroyed by trying to fix something that wouldn't have fixed the issue even if done properly. It's VERY frustrating.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

#37 11 years ago
Quoted from HOOKED:

Your words "Planning on going through the pin repair guide when I have some time. Hoping somebody can give me a good step to go through. If not that's ok....I'm just lazy right now."
Being you felt lazy and didn't want to follow the guides I offered a quick fix. As learned on the RGP site some think a deviation from the original design is "a hack".
First off sorry I stepped in this thread. Secondly the work around on the watchdog was given to me by the late Leon (RIP). Thirdly Clive was consulted and assured me it was fine.
Lastly - good luck with your issue. From now on I'm sure the other guys can point you in the right direction when your asking for a quick fix.

I assume you're referring to the added cap at the CPU power input. Yes it can work to remedy reset issues, but does NOTHING to actually address the actual problem. Not a good solution IMHO, and can introduce other issues.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

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