I will agree to dis-agree. Avengers is built poorly-plastic snap together ramps-please. Continuous ball hang ups? Yes Avengers has a great light show and unique layout but in my opinion does not hold a candle to X-Men layout and shots. Code is getting better and better and so is the game.

X-Men > Avengers. I own X-Men and have played Avengers quite a bit on location (always broken) and at other collectors houses. I really want to like Avengers

Of the two I like Avengers more...that being said I have not played X-Men on the updated code that came out months ago. Avengers is a tough game and can be a flailfest if you have trouble hitting tight shots.

X-men IMO is so much more fun to play than avengers. Note the 5 avengers I have played all on location are always been broken and ball hang ups galore. But X-men layout is great and I feel is the better game.

No surprise. It takes effort to get Avengers playing properly. When I have visitors to my place they love it, but that is not going to be the typical experience.

If there were future runs of it, I'd imagine most of these issues would be corrected and that might change the game's opinion, but I don't know if it will ever have enough demand to warrant it.

XMEN is way more fun than avengers.
XMEN has great flow, lots of modes, good sound, beautiful artwork/cab/translite.

XMEN > Avengers anyday.

Sorry, I too think X-men is the better game.

I agree with the rating - but the Avengers I played was not a good example. I would like to give Avengers its fair shake as Games never are good or bad based on one experience.

Gotta go with X-Men in a landslide here

I have a really hard time choosing here. X-Men is by far the better designed, better engineered, and better built machine. But honestly, I think Avengers is slightly more fun to play (once tweaked). I enjoy the humor of Avengers, which X-Men is mostly missing. Both games have great shots that are very satisfying when you are "on", and very frustrating when you are "off". To me Avengers shots feel slightly more satisfying, especially when you nail some combos. Few things feel better than comboing Hawkeye and Black Widow! But again, this is splitting hairs as X-Men has fantastic shots and combos too.

Sound is fantastic on both with a slight nod to Avengers due to the humorous voice work and some pretty awesome sounds with the Tesseract and Loki multiball start especially. X-Men has mostly great sound too, but with things like the "breathing" in Weapon X, Beasts and Storms voice acting (which I don't hate as much as some do) taking away from the overall sound package slightly.

Lights are better used on X-Men, but Avengers is no slouch either. X-Men takes the cake on art, but I don't mind the photoshop mash-up of Avengers either. The rules early on in each game are better in X-Men due to the variety...Avengers is a bit more wood chopping at first. But once you get deeper and start rocking the VS modes it catches up quickly. Tough call there.

Overall, I am a very lucky guy to have them side-by-side and not have to decide between them!

X-Men over Avengers seems right to me.

As far as strictly aesthetics are concerned, I think the cabinet artwork on X-Men Pro is the best Stern has ever done. Villains on one side and heroes on the other is fantastic!

You're hearing the opinions from the same people who did the voting. Xmen ranks better. What did you expect. Many comic book fans wantedAvengers to be great, but it's not.

I really tried to like avengers, but prefer the rythem mixed with tight shots on xmen le. However it's a apples and oranges comparison.

In my opinion,
X-men Pro >> Avengers Pro.
Can't talk about LE.

So yes, ratings seem fine...

I have owned both and there is no comparison,X men is by far the more fun game.I could no get rid of my hulk fast enough

My HulkLE has all METAL ramps if anyone really wants to know.

I've owned 3 of the 4 models. Here's how I rank them overall:
Xmen pro > avengers LE > xmen LE > avengers pro

I'll elaborate later.

X-Men, in my personal view, is the best Stern ever made. It gets played more than my Tron LE.

The first half of this statement is just complete BS. There's nothing poorly built, or fragile, about the plastic ramps on Avengers at all. This is such a red herring. Bait for Haterz. My TAV feels more solid than any game in my line-up...so there.

The second half is fixable. Get yer ass under the hood and adjust the switch plate until the Hulk works PROPERLY. I was enjoying the game for 8 months before perfecting the switchplate....but now, wow what a difference!

Otherwise, who cares which is ranked higher? I love TAV and I want an XMEN. Someone trade me their XMEN for my CSI!

Can't remember how I ended up ranking them comparatively, but for me they are pretty much neck in neck. X-men has the superior art package, Avengers the superior sound package, both music and call outs.

.

Ramps in Avengers are metal, not plastic. Ramps are inclined planes. Any where the ball travels with force it is metal. While I do wish the plastic return lanes were sturdier, I am not sure if you can say it was poorly built. Mine haven't broken/come apart, and they do what they need to do, although I admit I wish they would've went another way as it does give people the impression that the overall machine quality is low. As for continuous ball hang ups, not in my experience. Does it happen occasionally, yes. Continuously, no.

Anyway, back on topic, Avengers has longer ball times, and takes longer to get deep into the modes, X-men is faster with shorter ball times, they really play completely differently.

So for me, just depends what mood I am in. Neither machine is perfect, but both are a lot of fun and not leaving my collection in the foreseeable future. Ymmv.

Own both. X-Men is better by far.

Don't worry...it can be tough when people have different opinions.

Pete

Avengers: Offensively bad sound package. The knockoff voices take me out every time. (Captain America....*shudder*).

Also, the constant ball hang-ups are incredible. I spend most of my time thinking: "Uh...did anyone play test this game??"

I'm stunned that you talk about the "cheap moving ramp" on the X-Men, but ignore the glaring issues on Avengers. (Ball stuck at Hulk. Ball stuck on the Black Widow ramp. Ball stuck on top of the Thor targets as the solenoid keeps ramming it into the plastic above trying to clear it. Saucer in front of Hulk ineffective as it kicks out and falls back in repeatedly).

Not to mention...the complete "bait and switch" job that the Avengers theme was. (Movie theme? Nope...just horrific voicework from people READING the movie lines word-for-word. Look...you've either got the license, or you don't. Stop half-assing the theme).

And...I even LIKE my Avengers game.

It certainly isn't close to X-Men, though.

avengers, after tweaking, mucho bettero than x-men, no contest! ratings are wrong as usual.

You obviously have not dialed yours in at all.

I bought Xmen pro and Avengers pro both NIB
I sold my AV after 2 months, man that game sucks, it's a nice try, but it is not good!
I love my Xmen, what a great game !!!! I like it more than my acdc and metallica !!

I'd rather play a DIALED IN (challenging to get to that point) Avengers than X-Men any day.

Absolutely!! +1000!!

Game is amazing once it is tweaked, unplayable when it isn't.
If I dropped coin in it on route I would probably kick it.

I had an X-Men LE and was becoming quite disenchanted with it due to the code and bug issues....I passed on purchasing Avengers LE partially cuz I was in that zone & I wasn't happy about the art/voice choices. That being said, when I played my my friend's Avengers LE - I had to be objective. The overall feel and play felt really good. The IM/Cap loop shots were buttery fast. The ramps were tight but felt nice and smooth when hit. Voice are fake but mixed well and not offensive like Beast/Storm. Pinball reference humor from Hulk made me smile. I know there have been probs with getting the game to play right, and I played a Pro which NOT a great experience....but, my experience with the LE was decent enough that I said if the price was right, I'd take a shot on it and get one. Worse comes to worse I jam on it for a few months then sell it...no biggie. So - the price is right and I'm getting one lol. X-Men LE will always be the looker but I think Avengers LE will come out on top as a player....I'll have a "real" verdict once I've played a few hundred games on Avengers...soooo - to be continued!

Yes I would also disagree with you. Xmen ranks higher for a reason. I played Avengers a few times and couldn't stand it. It was literally the worst game I've ever played, ever. Now keep in mind it was at a distributors and was not "dialed in" but you shouldn't have to dial in a game that much. Just my opinion. Also I played the pro, I've never played the LE and the LE is suppose to be good, but I can't say as I have never tried it.

Playing a few games on a distributor Pro that wasn't dialed in doesn't give you a true feel on Avengers. As for dialling in, mine needed very little tweaking to get it right, I guess I got lucky. If you get a chance to play a properly dialed in one, especially an LE, give it 20 games or so to start getting the shots down and you might change your mind.

I know how you feel though, I once played a Whitewater that played like complete crap. I am sure a dialed in one would be much better, but that initial experience left me with an overall negative feel for the game.

Why do you need my thoughts? You've already told me a fact that one is better than the other.

I've never played Avengers, but I can chime in about XMEN in general.

I was a day 1 preorder on XMLE-Wolverine. I got the game, loved it, hated it, loved it, then REALLY REALLY hated it. Mainly the hate was because of the software and the delays upon delays to get it right. I ditched it after the powerpack-fix update that was lame and didn't have half of the stuff I was expecting. At that point in time, I though XM was about as good as Popeye.

THEN, something happened. The last update hardened the code, introduced Combos, and in general 'Fixed' all the issues I had with the game. I had to have it back, so I got XMLE back, and now it is by FAR my most played game (more than SM, IM, and Tron combined). Once you figure out the timing on Xavier, Cyclops, and Iceman, this game rocks, hard. There is NO combo sequence in pinball I enjoy more than Cyclops->Storm->Iceman->Xavier combo.

MusketD, the issues you called out earlier, I get what you are saying, but...

- The faulty moving ramp that does nothing... I actually LIKE it. and when you get combos up and can recycle the iceman ramp for infinite combos, it's REALLY cool.

- The cheap plastic stand up pop ups of the night crawlers... I think this is a case of hype not meeting reality. The nightcrawlers I think are a great toy, and I really hope the FINAL update utilizes them and fixes the one remaining bug here...

- The code is a train wreck and yes I played the newest code.... I don't understand this, as it sits today. Everything works, everything is coded EXCEPT the extra wizard mode.

- The scoop design and wolverine shot just dominate the game too much... This... This I actually understand, but no more so than the target/scoop on Tron. Games with forward pop bumpers ALWAYS have this problem (see ANYTHING made by Pat Lawlor). It makes for tight shots, and limited shots, BUT, this usually severely limits shots from the opposite side flipper. In this case though, you still have 4-5 long shots and 4 short shots from the right side flipper, compared to 6 long and 3-4 short from the left.

I really want some game time on Avengers. Overall, it seems XM is superior to Avengers in its current state (by popular vote), but at the same time, liking a game is SOO subjective to the player and is directly related to their ability to hit the shots on the game. XM requires you to dial in a few key shots to 'open up' the game, I think Avengers is probably the same. At the end of the day, they are both probably great games that had a LOT of early bad press (XM code, AV QC issues) and will never really recover from that (in popular opinion).

This topic, AGAIN? Can't we all just agree to disagree and just love playing pinball?

I think XM is much better than Avengers. XM code is finally just about there. Game is super deep, lots of shots, combos, flow. If you are just shooting for Wolverine and the scoop you are missing out on 90% of the game. XM is a very challenging game. Funny enough, I like the Pro more than I like the LE on XM. Aside from the color changing LEDs...which are cool...the ice man ramp is a negative IMHO, nightcrawler seems like an afterthought (but much better than he was used before) and the spinning disc doesn't do enough to make me care about an LE.

For me, Avengers is boring until you start collecting Avengers. Before that, nothing scores points. The game overall is super repetitive and the scoring is extremely unbalanced like IJ4. In a route collection locally that has all the new Stern games it has been repeatedly the worst earner...even with some older Bally/WMS games included as well. It earns so poorly that the op has recently traded away the game.

Yes, but we also LOVE disagreeing.

The real question is how is xmen pro ranked below avengers LE AND xmen LE

To be fair here's my evaluation of the three games I owned:
-avengers LE: 4 main shots - all difficult and all satisfying. However, the BW shot bricks a lot. Once dialed in at its best; it would still brick shots 1 out of 10 times at the end of bridge. That bridge design needed just a little more thought. The IM and CA loop shots are awesome! But once again, getting this game dialed is a motha and once dialed, 1 out of 5 loop shots would hit the bottom of the slingshot. This seemed to happen more and more over time and gets frustrating. HE shot is awesome, I don't care what people say about it, it's a long shot and you can choose for the ball to return to right or left flipper. Hulk hang ups are a bitch. I got it to the point where it was rare occurrence, but when it happened it just kills flow and fun. Plus it happens in mb's no matter what; needs some software tweaks. Hulk saucer; even with the stern fix this thing is a PIA. I used a little drop dead foam and did finally get it so only 1 out of 10 shots rejected. Conclusion; there's a lot of 1 in 10 chances on every shot that will reject or brick; doesn't sound like much but it is when it's every shot in the game. Overall fun game and I rank it high but a PIA to keep dialed in.

-xmen Pro and LE; cons - wolverine is big. Tough game to learn. Pros - 5 of its main shots (Xavier, storm, cyclops, iceman, and beast) are fun as hell to hit. About as tough as AVLEs 4 main shots but more combo opportunities and more satisfying. The other shots in xmen (rogue and Phoenix) are fun but not near as satisfying as AVLEs main shots.
Now here's where I get picky on xmen LE vs pro. The iceman ramp plain out sucks. I loved it in early code cause it moved to the left and stayed put. But it's a klunky return when it's in its normal position. The pro ramp feels WAY better. Nightcrawler: the of is already cluttered; now its even more cluttered with NC popping up. Kills flow, and the rivets in the pf could even affect slow moving balls. NC was great in early code because it was so rare it didn't kill flow. The NC inserts on the pro are great; super bright yellow and big - and doesn't kill flow. Spinning disk - this feature is awesome for starting magneto mb; other than that it sucks. Here's the deal with LE vs pro and spinning disk and NCs - missed shots in this game can make it take some time to get the ball back to the flipper bats. So you're stuck there watching the ball go all over the place. Nc and spinning disk do not help this cluttered pf in giving a player the chance to hit the ball. Because there's no spinning disk in the pro; the magnets move the ball faster and better towards the player instead of curve balls side to side that the disk causes. GI and looks obviously go the LEs.

Dots to me is a wash. Both are great
Music and sounds are a wash. Both are great
Avengers does have better call outs IMO. But I do like xmens...it just needs a jp call out!
6ball mb is awesome on avengers. But BH and HFC are awesome mb's too. I like weapon x mb but its completion is weak as hell. Same with magneto mb. So I think avengers wins the mb fun dept.

Conclusion:
Xmen pro > avengers LE > xmen LE > avengers pro

But it's very very close. All are great! ....except maybe avengers pro lol I only kid, I haven't played it

Well, that's not quite true...I've adjusted it so that MOST of those things are taken care of (like the Thor drop targets), but some things just keep happening...like the Hulk ball traps. (I've also adjusted the kicker at the Hulk saucer, and it still isn't quite perfect).

I'm just saying that it is unfair criticism to bash X-Men about a faulty moveable ramp (which I have NEVER had a problem with) while ignoring the multitude of issues on Avengers.

Again...I need to stress that I LIKE the Avengers pin. I completely understand why some would like it more than X-Men.

I'm always amazed when people don't understand that it is possible to have a differing opinion. (There are pins that I'm not big on that others just LOVE, and it doesn't ruin my day).

Pete

I wanted to love both of these pins, but the voice work killed any joy I might have had for the themes. In terms of gameplay, Xmen >> Avengers IMHO.

Prob dumb question cuz I'm sure someone has tried it - but is it possible to readjust Hulk's arms "resting position" so they're up a bit higher? His arm movement range isn't that great, so I don't think the arm "up position" being a tad higher would affect anything.

Easy way is to change out the rubber bumper for the armature in the back with one for a B/W apron or bend the tab.
You want the fists to strike the center of the ball so he bashes it back and forth before he slams it SDTM.
Always cracks me up when he does that.

Yes. And I thought about doing this or removing his arms completely. I got it working so good for a week; then had to adjust it. Worked excellent for another week, then had to adjust it. Thought about raising the arms or doing something drastic, but every shot in the game needed tweaking (except HE) and I had a 4 mo old baby in the house at the time. I just got to a point where I thought itd be best if I let it go. I may pick one up down the line again for the right price. Like I said before, it's an awesome pin....when its working right.

Btw did you get a hulk or a blue?

Yes. And I thought about doing this or removing his arms completely. I got it working so good for a week; then had to adjust it. Worked excellent for another week, then had to adjust it. Thought about raising the arms or doing something drastic, but every shot in the game needed tweaking (except HE) and I had a 4 mo old baby in the house at the time. I just got to a point where I thought itd be best if I let it go. I may pick one up down the line again for the right price. Like I said before, it's an awesome pin....when its working right.
Btw did you get a hulk or a blue?

It is working right now, the trigger plate adjustment is where you fix it not the arms.
I have the Hulk button installed but seldom have to use it as soon as the ball touches the plate he starts swinging.
I also performed corrective surgery on his fists so he doesn't hit the bridge.
Here is a pic taken after the procedure.

Hulkmod_V1_002.jpg

Well, we'll see what happens I guess....I'm getting Blue. Since Avatar is gone, I need something blue to replace it lol

I'd have to go with Xmen. I think it's a great compliment within my current lineup and even enjoy playing it more than our ACDC Pro (that thing just kicks my ass to the point of frustration - should have went Premium).

And I really wanted to like Avengers. But at the end of the day, in all the plays I put in on it at Stern, there were just too many things that pushed me toward Xmen.

Not saying I won't own one someday, but for now, it was Xmen.