Don't know if they can work out the delay bugs. I completed Rogue (hit NC) but then started Weapon X. I wasn't even sure I had completed Rogue but then like 10 seconds later I got her call out.

It's greatly annoying. I think this is a major problem that and Wolveriene call out for other mode starts.

Prof X is always delayed it seems.

This is exactly correct. This game has so much going for it and unlimited potential. Could be the best pinball machine ever made (to date) if it had knock out code . . . but the code is "meh" at best. I am holding out confidence that they will get it right next time.

This has nothing to do with code updates. Try starting a new thread with tech: in the title. Most likely this is caused by your trough VUK opto boards. You can reflow the solder on the or just replace them. Could be a wire interfering but doubtful. Is actually common on sterns. In any case, your tech issue is buried in this thread about code because it's not in topic and the tech helpers are generally not seeing it. So if this doesn't solve your issue please start a new thread.

Thanks for your help. Any information is appreciated. I am new to this pinball game. Played my first game 9 months ago. I don't understand what you are saying "try starting a new thread with tech: in the title". What do you mean.

Wow, that's bad.

I just noticed last night that X-Men has had a pretty dramatic fall in the rankings here at Pinside. If they don't get this code fixed soon it will only continue it's slide.

I managed to speak to Gary and he said that 'they love XM' and are working really hard on the next code update. Make of that what you will. Couldn't get a date or even approximate.

I am ok with taking a bit. Just do something special. This game really has potential.

+100

Here's hoping they go back to the drawing board. Clearly they did Avengers right, I expect the same quality from XMEN.

-Wes

I agree.

I don't think they need to go back to the drawing board. Just fix the errors, tie up the loose ends, and most of all tie things together better. I think the rules for the individual modes (heros, villains, Magneto) are all very well done and are faithful to the characters and the comic.

--Luke

I just cant imagine how John feels. He makes a killer table time and time again and software screws him over. It really shows Sterns priorities. Steve and George get quality while poor John gets the shaft time and time again. Borg IS Stern pinball and has been since 99.

We are so close to Metallica that its all hands on deck for that now just like it was for Avengers.

Fix the code Stern!!!!!!!!!!!! We can't scream this any louder.

It does seem that way in the pecking order....

I personally love my xmen LE and think it has every bit of potential needed to be a top 20 table. It just needs that special code that really makes it flow. I like stacking modes, but my biggest wish is that they will some how tie the villains into the flow of the game. The Villain modes are so cool but right now, all they do is get in my way of getting to Danger Room (and there's now way in hell I'm even attempting Dark Phoenix). If they could somehow tie the two wizard trees together instead of forcing you down one path or the other, it would be perfect.

+1000

It's two parallel paths right now that are completely parallel and unrelated at the moment. At least with 1.23 heros and magneto were linked a bit; so hopeful that they are headed in right direction

I agree with both of these comments. I'd like to see Danger Room go back to being a reward for completing all the heroes though. This would make completing heroes a good goal and it makes sense narratively. Hopefully they'll add Deadpool in there somewhere, too. Maybe Deadpool could be the ultimate reward for getting Danger Room (via completing heroes), completing Magneto, and getting Dark Phoenix.

--Luke

I can say with absolute honesty that I could care less about silly rankings. All I care about is if I love the pin I have. If I don't it does not stick around long. The real concern with this title is not the Pinside rankings but rather the inability for the software team to do an excellent design by Borg justice.

The gameplay is second to none IMO and with the theme there is plenty of opportunity to have a unique and very fun rule set. Unfortunately, Stern has failed to come up with acceptable code for XM. I don't care what has to happen to get the best code possible (bring in Lyman to oversee progress) just get it done. If Stern fails to deliver adequate code for a pin with such potential I am not sure I will be comfortable buying from them in the future. And most know I have been a supporter of Stern for a while now but they have to get this one right for the community.

Do any of the people who have been in touch with Stern about the XM code know who is actually working on it? Presumably Waison, but wouldn't we expect he's working on Borg's next (Metallica a few months away, says the rumor mill)? I seem to recall somebody had mentioned they are paired up in general. Also, the assumption is Waison getting more help this time around.

I'm wondering who is working on what these days. Is Lonnie free following Avengers? Or Lyman, considering that Star Trek is further away?

Good question. We would hope Lyman has some input on the XM code.

Completed hero's do more damage to Magneto when you fight him and Magneto is now the gateway to Danger Room so in a sense, it's still very valuable and prudent to complete hero's (also, for the bonus multipliers but that isn't related to the wizard mode). Table has so much potential and it's probably the prettiest lighting I've ever seen.... I gush everytime the purples and reds come on during Sentinels. Beautiful.

Completing all hero's to get to danger room with the current difficulty of dark phoenix would be way too difficult for the average player on this pin IMO. At least one wizard mode should be attainable for an average player. I think the current difficulty to get to danger room is perfect. You have to start all heros and then beat Magneto multi-ball (in that order or no go) which is no given so you have to be on a roll to get to it via a multi-ball then hit scoop to start danger room (another multi-ball). Requiring us to beat all hero's without progression with how things are being stacked with current code (chaos) would be too much IMO.

You "could care less"? So that means that you actually *do* care some!

Interesting that you call the rankings "silly" as a mod at Pinside considering all the effort that Robin puts into it, as well as many well meaning and honest Pinsiders who actually take the time and effort to rate a pin in all the categories that are available.

That said, I always take the rankings with a huge grain of salt. We've seen numerous examples of members who completely abuse the ratings. B/W fanboys. Stern fanboys. It's sad. And like you, I don't care where a pin is on the list vs what I personally think of the pin. All that matters is whether or not *I* like it. Hell, TAF is ranked extremely high, but I do not care for that pin at all. Likewise, there are pins that are ranked quite low that I love. But that doesn't make the rankings meaningless either. They are indicative of what a majority of Pinsiders think (as long as there are a sufficient number of votes to overcome the fanboy ratings).

The point I was making should have been obvious: why has X-Men tanked in the ratings here at Pinside? It has dropped from something like 17th down to 39th. I don't care that you like it, love it, hate it, whatever. The ratings show that the terrible code on this pin has taken a negative toll on it's reputation. Period.

I personally don't care for the layout either, but that's just me. It's my opinion that the code is the reason it's tanked in the ratings (and Eskaybee giving it a 1 for code is an example of that).

Stern will get it right this time. Just have a good feeling about it this time.

Lots of good stuff on here.
- I want them to fix the bugs. Ramp, villain lamp, call outs etc...
- Keep the Iceman ramp to the left during the entire mode, no matter how long you set it for.
- Fix or put the skill shot back to v1.22 so that hitting Phoenix on plunge doesn't negate the skill shot. Before it was difficult, right now it is almost impossible to get the ball in that 4 inch sweet spot and then make the shot.
-Make the skill shot worth more. Its one of the hardest skill shots in pinball and not worth diddly.
- Lock out completed heroes like they do villains, at least until after you do Danger Room.
- Weapon X is annoying after you have accidentally started him 5 times in one game.
- Get rid of the "Hit BH or HFC X number of times" wording. I figured it out pretty quickly that hitting the stand ups advanced toward MB. Or only do it once. Plus, its in the ruleset. Also, once played, don't make us requalify them. If we do have to requalify them, then ANY hit at ANY time should count.
- Some sort of Combo reward. They are hard enough to do on this game, make them worth while.
- If you are going to allow stacking every hero at once, then Medium should be two hits to start. Right now Hard also makes starting Villains more difficult. As it is I get most of my heros done before I even start a villain mode. Really, there should be a separate menu setting for hero start and villain start IMO.
-Shouldn't have to defeat all 7 villains to get to Dark Phoenix. Just start them all. Defeating a villain should give you some sort of score multiplier, and make beating DP easier. For instance, each villain defeated makes one of the 7 shots blink faster, do double damage and be worth double points. Sorta like the Brotherhood mode. This could be random but I think it would be better to make each villain assigned to a lane, left to right so Sabertooth would be the left orbit, Omega red the right etc... This would allow you to progress and still make defeating the villains worth it.

Fantastic idea!

--Luke

I'm not sure what your definition of average player is, but I think if someone is able to start all of the heroes and then beat Magneto, that same person would also be capable of completing all the heroes in one game. I still think Danger Room should be a reward for completing all heroes. However, it would be cool if there was a reward for starting all heroes and completing Magneto, just not Danger Room.

--Luke

This 100%. Could not agree more. Please Stern. Listen to your customers.

Anyone have any ideas on whats going to happen with the code update? You guys think there will be a complete rule re-write, or just adjusting the current rule set. I agree with most everyone, the layout on this machine is stellar, and it has a very high potential of being great. Personally I think the entire rule set needs to be re-written, and after playing Avengers, I am convinced they now how to make a good superhero rule set.

It's being worked on.

I disagree with you on that. How Danger Room is much more attainable as is then having to complete all Heros IMO. In my time playing it I have rarely if ever completed all hero's but I have gotten Danger Room how it is set up now more then a few times. What I mean of 'average player' is someone decent but not an elite player that does very well at tournaments ect. I think the difficulty in attaining the mode is perfect it is one of the things I like about the new code. But I know all do not share my opinion so I can respect the fact you don't like it at its current state.

Leave danger room attainable for us mere pinball mortals.

Sorry Rob I call them how I see them and that wont change. The current ranking system is in my opinion silly. That said, I do appreciate Robins efforts with the site which is why I try to help out when I can. People that give too much credence to the rankings sometimes go into playing a pin with pre-conceptions which can really kill the experience. I say play the pin if you like it then that is all that matters not what a few hundred guys/gals online think about it.

X-Men was and still is one of my favorite to play if not my favorite regardless of what others think about it. It doesn't matter to me how you or others feel about it in the least bit. I am not in Pinball to make money so if I lose a little cash if I ever sell it I could care less as long as I enjoyed my time playing it. I'm not going to turn this into one back an forth exchange just wanted to reply to your post.

You had a few points in your post didn't you? That said, I do see how a sloppy code can negatively affect the rankings no question about it.

And I hope Stern realizes future Borg/Waison game sales will be impacted if X-Men code doesn't get fixed before their next release.

Ok but you completely missed my point. Again.

That is a very good point.

Opposite is that if people know Lyman is the lead on the code, sales will go up.

Fair enough. I see your point.

--Luke

I disagree. I think the rules for the individual modes in X-men (heroes, villains, Magneto) are very well done and are a real strength of the game. I know it sounds like people are really loving the Avengers, but do we really need another game where the rules are "shoot a shot a bunch of times to collect it, shoot the same shot a bunch of times to complete it"?

--Luke

I agree, the modes are awesome. The dots are awesome. Layout/shots very good.

The default setting on the last code stacking heroes with one shot was lame. Yes, it can be changed to 2 shots, but the stacking still feels like a mess. I read all the ideas on how to fix stacking, but I don't know if any of them would work.

Ice Ramp- was a feature I was really looking forward to before I played the game because I had never seen anything like it on other games. I really don't think they know how to implement it. Big let down.

Combos would be great

Beast voice is grating compared to the other great voice overs in the game. I can live with it. Maybe change the background music for his mode?

Nightcrawler is a nice feature like the trolls in MM, but you don't see them as often as the MM trolls. Tying it to Rogue helped from the previous code versions as you do get to see him more.

Last update made the spinning disc really awesome. Best upgrade over the Pro model.

Love you can get Hellfire/Brotherhood easier now. I really hope they leave those two alone as I couldn't ever start them in the other code versions.

Saved villain progression would be cool. Get so close to finishing one, then drain, would be nice to be able to go back and finish that villain by starting off where I left off last time with his bar drained.

jimjim66, I agree with most of what you have posted, but I wanted to expand on a couple of your points:

The thing is...no one was asking for hero stacking before. No one was saying the heroes made the game too hard. The stacking isn't needed as their modes are short anyway. It was a failed experiment that users have tried to fix by tinkering with the settings. It needs to go away as the modes just weren't designed to stack. If you want to make the game easier by tinkering with the hero modes....make it so the modes don't need to be beat to qualify Danger Room (which they have already done, but I would remove the "beat Magneto" to qualify it) and make completed heroes do more damage on villain modes (this is what players have really been asking for).

I also like that you can get to these multiball modes easier, but they really went about it the wrong way. All they did was lower the amount of hits needed to qualify them. That should be a setting in the adjustments and not something hardwired into the code. What people were asking for was that they leave these targets active more of the time to qualify the modes. As it is now...they are only active when you are not in a mode of any kind. Just like Nightcrawler mode....you just never see it because you are always in a mode or replaying modes that you have already beat over and over and over again. That means the vast majority of the time these targets (and Nightcrawler) do nothing. Sure the make a sound when you hit them (bug) and one bank lights up when you hit them (bug) but they aren't counting the hits toward qualifying the multiball modes. Why not make the amount of hits needed adjustable in the settings and also make the targets active except when in any multiball mode?

Yes Yes Yes, modes were not designed to do this. It will never feel like anything but cobbled together "clunky" code if it continues down this path. Xavier mode will never work stacked with anything for one...

Definitely, and even better since the whole point of Danger Room is for the heroes to train to accomplish something! So maybe a Danger Room that effects how easy it is to complete the hero modes if they weren't completed.

Makes absolutely no F ing sense to get it by beating Magneto down.... would make more sense if it qualified for you failing to take down Magneto actually...

Pins have always had options to make them easier, more balls, extra balls, extra time. This one you have to change options to make it harder, and then the game isn't harder because its harder, it's harder because its boring and tedious...

If you couldn't ever even get close to Danger Room before the new code, even after ~25 games, I'm sorry it's mean I know but you suck. Not a big deal! There are options to help! But when I can now get to Danger Room on ball 1 fairly regular, modes set to hard, its no longer fun or a thrill....

If that works, great-

Just would like to see HF/BH qualified more than the first couple of released codes, if that means hits during modes count, then go that route.

Nightcrawler and the Ice ramp are what sold me on the LE as they could be cool features, (No pun intended) I hope the new code utilizes them better.

Really like the game, and have no plans of selling anytime soon, just excited to see what path they take.

If you think those are the avengers rules in a nutshell then you probably haven't played avengers. The avengers rules are such that just about every shot is open most the time and does something to help progress you through the game. The rules stack almost always with almost everything. So you are pretty much never just shooting one thing over and over. Then every character is tied to a duel. It's quite an experience and really does show what can be done. Lonnie hit this ruleset out of the park. It's the best work of his career.

How about this:

Instead of the suggestion that gives villains a dedicated shot, or a bonus for number of completed heroes... How about having the shots of competed heroes do more damage during the villain modes than the other shots do? Almost like you are calling your collected heroes into the fight! To take it even further, the first time you shoot a collected hero (say Storm), there could be a "Storm joins the fight!" animation. Additional Storm shots could just show animations of Storm attacking and then the points awarded.

This is a great idea and has been suggested / discussed here so many times but for whatever reason, Stern is not going this direction.

Anyone hear the status on the update? It's going on 5 weeks have they added anything?

I heard they were just going to add the Angus mooning DMD animation for the end match as a cherry on top and call it good.

You are correct, I have not played the Avengers. My perception of the rules of that game are based mostly on your rules post, Markmon. I'm not saying it's bad (I said that a lot of people are really loving it). My point was that I don't want X-Men to have the same ruleset as Avengers. Why would we want to have two games with similar themes and the same rules?

--Luke