(Topic ID: 334927)

Xenon Pop Bumper Problem

By cstradley

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by BigAl56
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

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#1 1 year ago

Hi, I hope this problem hasn’t been hashed out before but like most of these old machines, the problems are always different. I have a Xenon machine that I’ve had it since around 1999 and it has never been fully playable. The playfield was pretty much trashed (installed an overlay) and the MPU had the usual acid damage; after getting a replacement it was sort of working back in 2008 when I put it away in storage. I recently got it back out and have been going over it trying to get it functional. Apart from the vocalizer board not working, all lights and solenoids function. My problem is the lower, middle and right pop bumpers fire whenever hit one of them gets triggered making the game not very playable (never the left pop bumper though). Looking at the leaf switches, there is plenty of gap in them that they aren’t triggering from vibration. Furthermore, the solenoid self-test shows the same problem. I am lucky enough to have a logic analyzer and I had PB0 - PB3 connected and was able to monitor the data lines from the U11 PIA on the MPU and when the test gets to the pop bumpers, I see the data lines flutter along with the three pop bumpers triggering instead of the data value holding for ~1/2 second like all the others. When I disconnected the solenoid board and monitored the data lines, they did not flutter anymore. I also disconnected the sound board in case it was causing problems with the address lines but to no avail. I replaced U11 with one of the 6820's from the acid ruined MPU and the problem did not change. I guess its possible that there is corrupted data coming into the PIA from the CPU.

Is it possible that I have a ground problem (bounce) between the MPU and solenoid board?

Chris.

#2 1 year ago

Definitely possible - I recommend doing the mods described at https://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#cap

Also check the cable side female connector (J4) on the MPU for acid damage if it is still original.

#3 1 year ago

Note the PB0 - PB3 signals are also used to select sounds at the sounds board. So while you will see these PB lines activate the coil they will then activate to select the pop bumper sound effect - actually they activate twice for sounds because sound commands are sent as two nibbles.
You said the vocalizer board isn't working - does this include the sounds plus board not working? Is the solenoid bank/sound select signal reaching the destinations properly?

#4 1 year ago

Try not to overthink it, you most likely are experiencing normal vibration issues associated with the closely spaced bumpers.
Here is the factory Seder required to get the bumpers properly adjusted. First, tighten the switch stack screws then adjust the switch position so its perfectly centered with the spoon. Next, if you haven't done so replace the bumper switch capacitors with new replacements. Next, increase the switch blade pressure against the spoon switch. Finally adjust the switch contact gap as wide as possible but still allowing the switch to close by adjusting the damper blade. That's the stiffer metal blade of the switch that pushes back on the lower switch blade.
This procedure should be followed before you get to into board issues. If all else fails, remove a switch wire from the mpu connector and note if the problem goes away, rinse and repeat if it does.

#5 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

Note the PB0 - PB3 signals are also used to select sounds at the sounds board. So while you will see these PB lines activate the coil they will then activate to select the pop bumper sound effect - actually they activate twice for sounds because sound commands are sent as two nibbles.
You said the vocalizer board isn't working - does this include the sounds plus board not working? Is the solenoid bank/sound select signal reaching the destinations properly?

I’d buy that if it happened on other solenoids and outside of the solenoid test, which there are no sounds. I did remove the sound card in case there was some foul play but the result was the same. I do get sound, just no voice.

Chris.

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

Definitely possible - I recommend doing the mods described at https://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm#cap
Also check the cable side female connector (J4) on the MPU for acid damage if it is still original.

Thanks! I’ll look at these mods. The boards are pretty much as they left the factory minus the MPU battery.

Chris.

#7 1 year ago

Probe the banded side of the CR9, CR10 and CR12 diodes on the solenoid driver board (which drives the respective Q9, Q10 and Q12 driver transistors for the three right/middle/lower pop-bumpers you mentioned).
Do you see them all briefly pulse up from zero volts to about 2.3 volts when you activate a single pop-bumper?

2 weeks later
#8 11 months ago

OK. I finally got back to this problem. I bought a length of braid from Marcos and fixed the cabinet to head ground connection. Not a surprise that this did not fix the problem. I also bought 4 new switches to replace the ones that are in the game (probably original) but before I dove into replacing them, I decided to put some tape between the switch contacts and then run the solenoid test. WOW!! The switches were the problem! I had it in my head that the switch contacts would have been disabled in that self test (being a software engineer, that's what I would do). I suppose they had their reasons. Anyway, off to the next problem....sound.

Chris.

#9 11 months ago

Not a bug but a feature. The bumper coils are enable in switch test to make it easier to adjust the switches.

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