(Topic ID: 322055)

Xenon - One Solenoid Locked on

By Galdaien

1 year ago


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  • 24 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by Galdaien
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#1 1 year ago

Hello!

Need some guidance into the latest issue on my Xenon. The "middle" pop-bumper energizes the second I power on the game. Doesn't blow any fuses. If I disconnect J5 (center pop is J5 pin 15) from the driver board it does not charge. If I disconnect the coil the switch works properly in game.

A little background to this issue:

I accidently wired this pop the wrong way - power wire to the non- banded diode I turned on the game and started smelling the very unique smell of what I found later discovered to be the coil. It blew the F4 fuse on the rectifier board which I found was too high (15amp). Then it blew up the resistor/transistor on the solenoid board.

I traced the Transistor feeding the coil (Q10) and replaced it with a TIP102 along with the 330k ohm resistor and 1N4004 diode in it's circuit (pic incase I missed something important to replace?)

I replaced the Bally coil, AN-26-1200, with a spare Williams A2-26-1300, assuming they would be compatible?? I put a 1N4004 diode facing the same way as the rest of the bumpers and put the yellow power wire to the banded side. I also replaced the switch diode and clipped the cap to make sure it wasn't shorting and like I previously mentioned, the switch works in-game when I have the coil disconnected.

Any ideas what else to check?

TYVM!

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#2 1 year ago

Might try replacing U2.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from Brewchap:

Might try replacing U2.

Would U3 need to be replaced as well? Not too familiar with how IC's flow/operate but noticed U3 in the schematic of where the transistor is for that pop.

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#4 1 year ago

Opps, sorry for the typo. U3 was what I was thinking.

#5 1 year ago

Post a pic of the solenoid board where the transistor blew up.

#6 1 year ago

you did type 330 'K' ohm, is that a typo? that resistor is a 330 ohm.

not that that would cause the pop to lock on.

check the cap C20 isn't shorted.

next would be checking the transistor in U3.

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

you did type 330 'K' ohm, is that a typo? that resistor is a 330 ohm.
not that that would cause the pop to lock on.
check the cap C20 isn't shorted.
next would be checking the transistor in U3.

I'll have to double check the resistor just to make sure. Ty for pointing it out - I seem to remember seeing "K" on the multimeter but could be mistaken. How would I go about measuring the transistor in u3?

Update: my DMM shows a "K" for these resistors even though they are only 330ohm... maybe it means something else? Not sure but it goes away when not measuring.

#8 1 year ago

instead of me retyping it, it is here:https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#How_the_Solenoid_Driver_Works

whilst it doesn't explain in specifics how to test, you may pick up on where to check?

if reading this you don't quite get it, then i'll try and make it easy for you to test with a multi meter.

#10 1 year ago

Thank you so much! Very useful information. I'll have to do some testing when I get back home and will report back.

#11 1 year ago

Good news first - the pop works!
Weird news: read below...

I don't have a way to test a cap but I measured the ic @ U3 for Q10.

Diode test mode
Red lead to pin 8 (bottom left leg)
Black lead - pin 7 = .625
Black lead - pin 15 = .649
Measurements are in the proper range.

I re-tested the TIP102 @ Q10 and it was bad. Replaced with a TIP120. Pic of area attached - look for the different resistor/diode. The coil no longer locks @ startup!

Now the weird part...

When I'm in a game, none of the solenoid switches are activating or coils firing with the following exceptions:

The center pop that was just "fixed" , the flippers, drop target reset (switches not working though), ball kicker and the kicker that launches the ball to the shooter lane. All of these are working fine.

ALL of the other solenoids are not firing in game, however, all of them work in solenoid test mode. None of the solenoid switches are recognized in-game OR switch test mode except the ones I mentioned above. They all used to work in switch test...

I can hear something "click" off when I start a game, thinking it's related but I can't trace where it's coming from. Not a fuse and doesn't sound like a blow of any kind, more of a clicking like it's turning off these switches/coils from working at that moment. When I first started the game up the top eject saucer switch/solenoid worked then I heard that "noise" and stuff went dead. I hear it typically right before I launch the first ball now.

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#12 1 year ago

The 'click' will probably be the flipper relay mounted on that solenoid driver board.

When you start a game, it activates (click) and applies power to the flipper solenoids.

#13 1 year ago

The playfield 1A SB fuse should be blowing. Make sure that is not over-fused. Put the correct coil in the game. Should be 26-1200.
Finally, U3 may be bad. A logic probe will help you identify the exact point of fail, but if you reversed wired the coil that put a hard 50v short on the coil drive circuit and as you noticed things burn up quickly. I would also replace C20.

#14 1 year ago

Just wanted to conclude this last issue - there was two wire's going to the center pop's switch. One of the wire's broke. Re-soldered the two together and put it back on the switch and all solenoids now work fine. Thanks all!

This may be for another thread, but the last thing I need to look into is how the drop-targets are supposed to work. When I roll over the first roll-over button at the top, the first drop target falls but nothing is scored and the light doesn't move to the next roll-over/pressing it doesn't drop the second drop target. The rest of the roll-overs make a sound and score but don't drop targets. If I hit the drop targets with a ball there is no score and once all of them are down, they stay down until the next ball resets the bank. All top roll over switches activate in switch test, none of the drop switches activate when pressed closed but all coils fire/drop in test.

#15 1 year ago

not 100% on game play rules, but have you looked/read part C. on Drop Target & Top Button Feature in the manual.

#16 1 year ago

Check continuity from button common switch strobe to drop targets, coming from MPU A4J2 connector pin 3 (ST2). You should see all diodes non-banded sides connected together. Maybe there is a break somewhere between buttons and drop targets?

#17 1 year ago

Rollovers 1-4 at the top should in sequence drop the corresponding drop targets. Sounds like rollover 1 works but the target down switch on the bank isn't registering so the game does not know it was knocked down.

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

Check continuity from button common switch strobe to drop targets, coming from MPU A4J2 connector pin 3 (ST2). You should see all diodes non-banded sides connected together. Maybe there is a break somewhere between buttons and drop targets?

Didn't get a chance to look thoroughly yet and I might be a bit dense but which diodes are you referring to? I did see this series of caps near that connector and wasn't sure if the circled cap looks damaged?

Also included a pic of the switches. None of them activate in test mode and are the only switches not working. All contacts are separated and close properly when the target drops...

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#19 1 year ago

The caps won't be an issue - that type are exceptionally reliable and, even if you removed it, it probably would make no noticeable difference.

The diodes are to the left of the switch banks marked with "CRXX" numbers.

#20 1 year ago

Are these the diodes you guys are talking about? If so it looks like the banded ends are connected?

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#21 1 year ago

No, the switch matrix diodes that might be on MPU board as pins4u stated.

Check that the common wire across drop target switches is connected to similar common wire across rollover buttons.

#22 1 year ago

i'd be concerned about where the power comes in, the 2 yellow wires.

it' looks like maybe the coil has locked on, causing the black shield insulation to melt and short.

i'd also be checking the resistance of that coil, with the burn mark, and that the plunger can move freely as the coil sleeve may have distorted from the heat?

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

No, the switch matrix diodes that might be on MPU board as pins4u stated.
Check that the common wire across drop target switches is connected to similar common wire across rollover buttons.

Ok, will check out the MPU board for this.

Quoted from Rikoshay:

it' looks like maybe the coil has locked on, causing the black shield insulation to melt and short.

That is my doing. I was reflowing solder to some lugs and the solder iron shaft pushed into the coil sleeve when I was trying to get in the proper angle. Whoops!

#24 1 year ago

Attached pic of the diodes - they appear to be in the correct orientation?

The common wire (grey/yellow circled on pic) did not have continuity. I rewired and verified continuity from the first switch on the roll-overs to the last switch on the drops.

Still doing the same thing.

I swapped the drop target 1 & 2 switch wires. Also clipped all caps on the roll-over targets and replaced the 1st switch's diode.

Hitting the 1st roll-over button in-game still does not score any points but drops the 1st coil, so this test failed. Since it didn't score it doesn't move onto the second button.

In test mode all the roll-over button's register but only the first one doesn't score in game... Strange...

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