Quoted from Zablon:Anyone know where to get repro spinner?
Xenon spinner decals and parts are available:
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/A-3460-26
(Topic ID: 174124)
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3 weeks later
Quoted from Zablon:The lamps under the right 2X and 4X have quit working.
The 2X drop target lamp wire comes from the main lamp driver board J2 pin 14 and is driven by SCR Q6
The 4X drop target lamp wire comes from the main lamp driver board J2 pin 15 and is driven by SCR Q19
The 25k drop target lamp wire comes from the main lamp driver board J2 pin 2 and is driven by SCR Q31
The lamp driver board basically connects those wire signals to ground which switches on the respective lamps (the common braid wire at the base of the switched lamp sockets is actually 6.5 volts).
First thing to try is grounding those signals at the SCRs (transistor looking devices) on the lamp driver board which these lamps are connected to.
So grab a piece of wire with a little stripped from both ends. Connect one end of the wire to ground somewhere (test point "TP2 GND" on the lamp board will suffice), and touch the other end of the wire on the lower right leg of SCR Q31. You should see the 25k drop target lamp light.
Do the same with SCR Q6 and Q19. If either the 2x or 4X lamps don't light, there's a connection issue from the SCR to the respective lamp - it could be a bad solder joint at the J2 pin header on the back of the lamp driver board.
Note this ground test of the SCR leg only tests continuity from the SCR to the lamp - it doesn't actually test the SCR itself.
Next, to manually test activate the SCRs:
Disconnect the jumper wire from ground and connect it to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Touch the other end of the wire on the upper leg of SCR Q31 - the 25k lamp should light. Do the same with SCRs Q6 and Q19. If the 2X or 4X drop target lamps don't light, the SCR is likely suspect.
Quoted from Zablon:Are we talking about the same ones?
Yes, those lamps are for the drop targets telling you what the next achievement is for knocking them all down.
In the old Ballys, the main lamp driver board is designated "A5". The aux lamp driver board is designated "A9".
Did you try the wire jumper tests I mentioned on the main lamp driver board to see what happens?
The aux lamp driver board only has three SCR drivers for playfield lamps - they are: A9J2-17 goes to the end of the tube, A9J2-9 goes to the side saucer and A9J3-10 goes to the shooter lane. The remainder of the Aux lamp driver board controls the lamps in the head (infinity lamps and ring lamps behind the backglass).
The schematics below say that 2X drop target lamp is a Red-Blue wire, the 4X drop target lamp is a Blue-Yellow wire, the 25k drop target lamp is a solid Blue wire.
Look at the schematic snapshots below indicating those lamps go back to the main lamp driver board:
Xenon_DT_Lamps_A5 (resized).jpg
Xenon_DT_Lamps (resized).jpg
Quoted from Zablon:Per what you pointed out, you see that group does go to the backbox which is the piece I was missing I think.
Cool, hopefully you get to the bottom of why those lamps aren't working 
4 weeks later
Quoted from Zablon:What is the coil for in the coin door?
When the machine is off or the game has reached maximum credits, that coin door coil disengages so any coins dropped in the coin slots will be rejected.
Quoted from Craigb:I wrote down the wrong info, the Bally Controlled Lamp Chart shows the Same Player Shoot Again (Playfield) as Q40,A5J3-22, Code-23, Blu-Yel
First, the Q40 SCR has three legs and a metal back/tab. The lamp driver board has the letters "C", "A" and "G" printed next to Q40 telling you what the legs are.
If you ground the metal back/tab of SCR Q40, the S.P.S.A lamp should light. This only tests that you have continuity from SCR Q40 to the lamp.
Next, grab a jumper wire and strip both ends. Connect one end of the jumper wire to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Connect the other end of the jumper wire to the "G" leg of SCR Q40. If the S.P.S.A lamp does not light then Q40 is suspect. This is how you test SCRs, when you connect the "G" (gate) leg of the SCR to test point TP3 the respective lamp should light.
Quoted from Craigb:Ok, I didn't short out Q40, but I tested for voltage and it's there.
Ground the metal tab (which is basically the "A" leg of the SCR). If the light comes on then the next step is to jumper TP3 to the gate leg.
The gate leg of SCR Q40 connects from the lower leg of resistor R40 which is to the left of Q40, so you can jumper TP3 to the lower leg of R40 if you can't reach the gate leg under Q40.
1 week later
Quoted from Craigb:This is on the ALD-A9, so that would be TP1 instead of TP3 correct?
No. The auxiliary lamp driver board doesn't have the equivalent test point. You will need to use TP3 from the main lamp driver board for the jumper wire test to the gate legs of the SCRs on the aux lamp board.
2 months later
Quoted from Kevlar:In the video you can see me activate the 4 pop bumpers, the first one scores 800 every time, 2nd and 3rd score 100 each correctly, and the 4th scores anything from 100 to over 1000.
The 4th pop bumper is scoring 800 points in the video like the first pop bumper.
A clue is that the two yellow standup targets on the left side each score 700 points so that's probably where the extra score is coming from. You'll need to work out if it's a vibration issue or switch matrix issue. First off, put a piece of paper between the contacts on both of those yellow target switch contacts to stop them activating and see what happens to the pop bumper scores.
The pop bumpers and those yellow targets all have capacitors on them, make sure none of the caps has broken a lead.
Quoted from Kevlar:Thanks for the reply. In the video, yes, 800 for both but its just a short video, its not always 800.
Don't forget to go into switch test mode and check each switch one by one. You'll need to remove both balls and reset the drop targets up before you start the test so that there's no closed switches. Activate each switch starting from the highest number working your way to the lowest number as they're identified in the Xenon manual. It's important that you do it in reverse order and note any incorrect readings.
6 months later
Quoted from EdHess:Is it just me or does anyone else see the setting for 18 goes up to 07 if you keep scrolling?
The count to 7 is part of the Bally operating system (v 40) used at that time. What you're seeing is normal. I haven't checked but the functionality likely wraps around after 03, i.e. 00 to 03 settings are probably the same as 04 to 07.
1 month later
Seems like the ROM should be modified so those left side lamps are normally ON and flash off instead.
4 months later
Quoted from semicolin:Anyone know where this particular clear plastic piece from Playfield Protectors goes?
It goes under the apron on the right side above the ball switch/release trough area - see here:
https://images.pinside.com/f/53/77/f53773109aa44c38fb98a560e00dad59afd1169e.jpg
Quoted from JeffZee:My game has a completely different metal shield over the trough.
I've seen a metal cover too - this one is a different metal variation to what I've seen:
https://images.pinside.com/e/1d/97/e1d976f4171d504b3d465e2ac6e73d4cd3169748.jpg
Quoted from jj44114:Never have seen either type.
By accident, abuse or transit there must have been scenarios where the ball could potentially pop out of the trough.
Two Xenons I worked on last year had the plastic cover, another had a metal cover.
1 week later
Quoted from vec-tor:I'm going to assume that the plastic cover is for the early production and the metal cover is for later...
A collection of serial numbers could add insightfulness to the variations to the two outhole trough design.
Serial number from mine with the plastic cover over the trough switches is 4099
Quoted from Lovef2k:I honestly don't know what that trough switch does. It confused one of my xenons where it was putting 2 balls on the shooter lane. Apparently this was a common problem. I disconnected the switch and the game worked fine after. So I never did reconnect it.
When you lift the playfield, the ball in the outhole rolls up to the trough area. When you lower the playfield that second ball is still sitting in the trough area activating that microswitch so the game knows where the two balls are next time you power up. It is important to get those switches properly setup so the game doesn't get confused with that microswitch being activated too long when the ball rolls across it, otherwise the game spits out two balls like you were seeing.
There could be some other reason for that trough microswitch but that's where I found it played it's part.
1 week later
Quoted from tomdrum:See post #344 in this thread.
I think you meant post #334 
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/7#post-5020850
1 month later
Quoted from koji:Is it possible it is just due to fading?
Anythings possible, I don't know the history of these glasses. The right side glass still has yellow in key areas and since red is usually the fastest fading color and it's still vibrant on that glass, I tend to think these were manufactured by different suppliers.
Quoted from Lovef2k:I also noticed that the woman at the bottom seems to be looking left on the left glass and right on the right glass or am I just crazy?
Interesting 3D effect!
Quoted from bobukcat:Any chance one of those is a reproduction done by someone else years ago?
I don't know the history of those glasses other than they both came out of ex German machines that were imported probably 5 odd years ago and likely had been sitting idle for years beforehand. I wouldn't imagine someone installing a repro glass in one of these machines that were both tired. Both those glasses had delamination. If BigAl56 is watching, maybe he can comment on Bally backglass suppliers at the time.
But anything's possible.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Lovef2k:I always wondered if the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer set up are interchangeable with S&T without re-wiring the connector.
According to the schematics, the connector to the Sounds Plus board doesn't have the G.I wire used by the S&T board to create the -5V supply for the TMS5200 speech chip.
Although the picture of the Sounds Plus connector earlier in the thread shows otherwise with the heavy orange wire at pin 7:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/3#post-4085468
Quoted from vec-tor:For the longest time I could not figure out why their is a +48 volt line to the connector for the S&T board connector inside an EBD.
FWIW, you might notice it makes the connector compatible with the earlier -32/-50 sound boards.. Of course it's another matter of the MPU board ROMset supporting it.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Speaking of the Tms5200, I remember they were getting scarce a few years ago. Is there a viable replacement for it yet?
One of my todo things in the distant future is to hopefully re-encode the speech ROMs to work with a TMS5220 chip which replaced the TMS5200 and are still easily/cheaply available. I briefly looked at it two years ago and it's not trivial.
Who knows, someone by then might come up with a sound implementation that simulates or emulates it.
Quoted from pb456:I thought I saw a schematic for the light strip for the tube but I can't find it - anyone have a source?
The tube light strip schematic is the second last page of the Manual and Schematics on IPDB. And the board diagram is electronic page 40 (paper page 36) of the same PDF document.
1 week later
Quoted from hisokajp:I wanted to check if the behaviour of the coin door coin lock coil was right.
It stays on during the game but I can distinctively hear it release and re-engage everytime the ball go into the top of the ramp saucer
A "feature" of Bally games is they disengage the coin lockout coil when busy taking care of certain things that shouldn't be interrupted. The consequence otherwise would be that any more than 1 coin drop would be eaten up without incrementing credits.
E.g, disengaging the coin lockout coil during bonus countdown is common.
7 months later
Quoted from mrm_4:So I guess there are GI sockets on the PF that have been jumpered or hacked from other sockets to make up with this.
Yes, the lamp circled below is meant to be a feature lamp that's supposed to be piggy backed off that white-green wire from memory.
Both those lamps are normally off which makes that side of the playfield dark. They flash on when the ball enters the tube or exits the saucer - can't remember.
It should really have been implemented the other way so that those two lamps are normally on and flash off instead.
Someone's repurposed that lamp as G.I for some permanent lighting.
1 month later
Quoted from dothedoo:This prevents spurious signals in the matrix from being detected as a switch closure.
Except for fast react solenoids (pop bumpers and slingshots) which activate on first single switch closure. This is a reason why we get phantom pop bumper activations from the flippers on Ballys, usually happens to the pop bumper connected on the same switch return line that the outhole switch is on - that signal wire having the longest run in the playfield harness with the flipper wires, so it can pick up flipper current switching noise.
3 months later
Quoted from wolffcub:and the wire switch for the second ball is properly closing when the second ball is stacked.
Like Lovef2k said, it's a timing issue on the secondary switch in the trough. It tells the game in the unusual circumstance that there's a second ball there but the micro-switch must open straight after the ball moves forward a little. If that switch stays closed too long as the ball is rolling along the trough, the game doesn't sense that switch opening before the switch at the ball release kicker closes so it spits both balls out thinking there's two balls there.
Adjust the wireform on that micro-switch accordingly. It may take some tweaking to get right.
Quoted from wolffcub:it was set up so the micro switch would stay closed if a second ball was stacked
That's how it should be.
The only time you have two balls stacked there is if you lift the playfield for maintenance and the ball rolls from the outhole up the trough, or you're progressing through diagnostic mode to the audits. When you get to solenoid test the first solenoid to activate is the outhole kicker which will result in two stacked balls.
That micro-switch needs to open just after the second ball is allowed to move along the trough when the first ball is released to the shooter lane. The other thing is to make sure the switch at the ball release mech doesn't close too early.
Or do as Lovef2k did and disconnect that micro-switch. Two stacked balls does not happen under normal game circumstances. As long as a ball is sitting in the trough ball release zone, the other ball will stay in the outhole when there's no balls in play.
3 months later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So all the switches I have errors on in switch test do the same thing. I get a ding and the number flashes about once a second or so. I can try to close other switches and it doesn't seem to show those switches as closed like I have seen in videos (where it will alternate between the two switches that are closed). Once I get one switch issue fixed, the next one shows up and is constant until I get that one fixed.
Currently I'm stuck on button switch 3.
The factory ROMs only display the lowest number switch it finds closed. So for example if switch #1 (end of tube lane) was stuck closed, any/all other switches that are closed will not show up in switch test mode. It was a design limitation of the test.
Because switch button #3 is one of the lowest numbered switches on the playfield, the game will not report the status of switches of higher number until you resolve the button #3 issue.
2 weeks later
Anybody feel like trying this code modification?
It reverses the state of the feature lamps near the left saucer under the plastics that look like non-functioning G.I lamps.
Normally those lamps are off which leaves that area of the playfield being dark. They flash on when the ball enters the tube.
The modification results in those lamps being normally on so the area is lit, and flash off when the ball enters the tube.
Using a hex editor, perform the following changes and program new EPROMs:
offset: old values ---> new values
U1:
$06D5: $8A, $30 ---> $84, $CF
$07FC: $A6 ---> $0D
U2:
$0412 $CA, $30 ---> $C4, $CF
$0687 $FF ---> $CF
$070F $5C, $23 ---> $5F, $DC
$07FD $96 ---> $71
U6:
$0FDC $FF, $FF, $FF ---> $BD, $5C, $23
$0FDF $FF, $FF ---> $C6, $CF
$0FE1 $FF, $FF, $FF ---> $F7, $02, $14
$0FE4 $FF ---> $39
$0FF7 $DB ---> $BB
If your game has U1 and U2 merged into a larger ROM at U2 (i.e. there's no U1), modifications for the larger U2 are as follows:
U2:
$06D5: $8A, $30 ---> $84, $CF
$07FC: $A6 ---> $0D
$0C12 $CA, $30 ---> $C4, $CF
$0E87 $FF ---> $CF
$0F0F $5C, $23 ---> $5F, $DC
$0FFD $96 ---> $71
Quoted from Thunfisch:I'd really like to try this. But I do not have a EPROM in U1, I just have 2732 in U2 and U6.
Can you also tell the offsets for that combination?
Sure, I've edited and added the info to the post above to keep the mod details in a single post. Let us know how it goes.
Quoted from gdonovan:Hey now, I can do that in my spare time... like in 2024 or so.
Well, you'll probably get to it before I can get my Xenon out of storage..
Quoted from play_pinball:These caps I just got in the mail just seem so much smaller than I anticipated.
I put similar sized ones I got from China (not from Tayda) into a game of mine and over the course of about 1000 games, the thin leads on three caps broke from vibration.
1 week later
Quoted from BigAl56:Hardtop completed on spare playfield. Now starts the swap.
BigAl56 is this your personal machine? Any interesting memories of it back in the old factory days?
2 months later
Quoted from mrm_4:The coin door has a 10k ohm pot.
As Lovef2k mentioned, you have the wrong potentiometer on the coin door. Needs to be a 100 ohm, 5 watt, wirewound pot:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-6-inch-speakers-found#post-4488849
Quoted from mrm_4:After restoration the game is turned all the way up at the coin door and is not as loud as it was before and now I hear the displays in the speakers.
That's likely why you're hearing the display noise because you've now got the volume cranked up to max to compensate for the lack of game sound volume.
When you turn the volumes down to halfway like they were before the restoration, is the display noise there/acceptable?
If you hook up the speaker directly to the speaker output pins on the sound board (bypassing the coin door volume control) do you get LOUD audio volume?
Quoted from mrm_4:When the volume is at halfway on the door the distorted hum is barely heard but I have hardly any game sound when I start a game. So to your point I crank it up to sound normal but when the game ends I get the terrible sound of the displays.
I will test the bypass tomorrow.
So the display noise is a non-issue because once you fix the game sound volume, the pots will be back at half position like they originally were.
Quoted from mrm_4:All my Test points are good except TP1 is at 16
TP1 will probably read anywhere between 14V and 16V. Ignore the 11.9V on the schematic, that is an error that assumes no filter capacitors on that voltage rail which is absolutely not the case thanks to the C15 electrolytic and also C23 on the solenoid driver board.
Quoted from mrm_4:I jumped the speakers directly to the board and they were the same volume as if I had the coin door knob all the way up.
Did you change the amplifier chip after noticing the low volume or was it before as part of the boards refurb?
Quoted from mrm_4:Changed it after the low volume showed up.
Post some clear sound/vocalizer board pics, front and back.
Quoted from mrm_4:Sounds Plus has new axial caps
Nothing immediately stands out. I might take a closer look again later.
In your restoration thread, you originally had two 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel.
What's the ohms rating on the two replacement speakers? Are they both working (do you feel the cone move in both)?
Quoted from mrm_4:They’re actually wired in series (positive to negative) would switching to parallel (positive to positive) change the resistance to 4 ohm?
They were wired in parallel not series. You need to connect positive to positive and negative to negative.
If you have them wired positive to negative, they are cancelling each other out. - i.e. as one cone goes down, the other cone is going up. Both cones need to be moving in the same direction.
Quoted from mrm_4:This shows how they were prior to me taking them out. Showing them in series so that’s how I put them back. Circled the + markings
Mmm, nope. They're wired in parallel. Both wires from the sound board are hooked up to one speaker, then two short wires connect the second speaker across it. The fact these two short wires are incorrectly crossed over doesn't make it serial.
BTW also try your old speakers just incase the replacements have poor performance.
Quoted from gdonovan:They need to be in series to be correct.
I wouldn't wire those 8 ohm speakers in series. Speakers electrical impedance characteristics are not flat line and changes over the frequency spectrum meaning you're affecting the current levels through each speaker when in series. This will degrade their audio range.
Wire those 8 ohm speakers in parallel so they get audio voltage/current swings as intended from the amplifier.
Quoted from Lovef2k:This is a project game that I never powered up but the soldering looks original. Orange to pos and white to neg on both speakers
Two examples here of Bally soldering the orange Ground wire to the positive lug of the speakers, I find it amusing
Quoted from gdonovan:Did not catch they were 8 ohm, factory was 4 ohm in series.
If your two factory speakers were 4 ohms, I'm not surprised Bally took the safer route wiring them in series to save stressing the amplifier at the cost of audio range.
Quoted from BigAl56:The original speakers were 4 ohms to make the sounds more clearer. Because the sound board was designed for an 8 ohm load it is necessary to put the 4 ohms in series to work properly. If you replace with 2 eight ohm speakers in parallel that translates to a 4 ohm load that will stress the sound board.
Thanks Al, do you have any more info/recollection about this?
The Sounds Plus audio board uses a TDA2002 amplifier I.C.
Specs for the TDA2002 state it can drive loads down to 1.6 ohms. A 4 ohm load looks within spec of the amplifier.
A couple of the speaker pictures above show the speakers were wired in parallel from factory (well the soldering on the speaker lugs look original). I've also seen situations where single 6" 4 ohm speakers were retrofitted.
TDA2002_power_spec.png 5 months later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Can someone verify this wire placement for me please?
They look right to me.
But are they really 24-500 on the thrust winding or is it a typo on the coil wrappers? Usually those Bally flipper coils are 25-500 on the thrust winding.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Now just to figure out the spacers for the ramp!!
Is this what you're looking for?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-gray-posts#post-4346256
1 week later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:A more specific question, the lamps behind the two circular stand up targets. Are these controlled or GI?
If you've got access to an EPROM programmer, here's a ROM mod that reverses the state of those controlled lamps so they're normally on to light up the playfield and instead flash off.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/25#post-6482758
1 week later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So although I have switched bus power I'm not getting enough voltage to light the lights?
Just to confirm, the switch bus you're measuring at is pin 5 (should be a blue wire) on the lamp strip board connector? What happens if you temporarily jumper it direct with another wire?
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Yes, blue wire position 5. So I understand what you’re saying, when you say jumper over you are meaning jumper from that pin on the connector over to one of the other ground wire pins? Or are you meaning something else?
I mean to temporarily jumper a second wire from the lamp strips pin 5 to the under playfield switched lamp bus braid wire. Essentially to double up connectivity from the switched lamp power bus directly to the lamp strip board on the power pin in case there's a weak connection on the connector.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:So, with me using the Altek lamp driver board is it possible that the resistors on the new LED lamp board are too much for the current since there are also resistors on the Altek board??
I don't think so. I presume the Alltek board has load resistors somewhere between 470 ohms and 1k ohms. The same can probably be said for the lamp strip board. Roughly speaking if they both had 470 ohms, then in parallel it equate to 235 ohms - the LEDs themselves also bring this down. Incandescent lamps are very low resistance in the order of about 3 ohms when cold/unlit and 20 ohms when warm/lit.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:I don’t know what the required voltage is across those particular LEDs but most of the 5 mm blue ones I’ve seen are 3.2-3.4 volts.
You can presume the LEDs used will be about the same voltage rating.
Did they put two LEDs in series meaning 6+V is required to illuminate each LED pair or did they use resistors in series with each LED individually for proper in range current draw. I could only say with clear pictures of the LED strip boards if you can provide them.
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Here’s a few pics of the light board in question:
Can you post pictures showing the back of the board that also includes the connector so I can see how traces run between the resistors, LEDs and the connector?
Also can you tell me the color bands on the resistors? I can't properly make them out in the pictures
2 months later
Quoted from Shenanigander:Which MPU connectors are tied to sound?
MPU J4 connector has the signals that go to the sound board and solenoid driver board (actually they are the same signal set).
Quoted from Shenanigander:Here is a video of the sound misbehaving right after installing the refurbed sound boards. Let me know what you think!
The switch at the top of the ramp stops background sounds until the ball travels into the left lane/saucer. Are you sure that switch isn't misbehaving from vibration because after the ball enters the outhole the background sound re-appears in the video.
2 months later
Quoted from PantherCityPins:Anyhow I’m getting a loud hum after plugging in the displays.
If by chance you have any handy, try replacing capacitor C24 on the solenoid driver board with a tantalum 2.2uF 35V cap.
3 weeks later
Quoted from mkdud:Quench updated the code a while back to brighten the left side of the playfield...
Thanks to Quench for his guidance on this and for writing the new code.
Thanks for giving the lamp code update a try and letting me know that it works!
Here's the original post from a year ago:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/25#post-6482758
1 week later
Quoted from mkdud:What causes these random switch closures?
An error in the switch matrix caused by a shorted diode. It could be an actual faulty diode or a switch stack someones pulled apart and incorrectly put back together such that the leafs the diode is connected to are touching/shorted or someone incorrectly wiring a switch. It can also happen by a switch that's making contact with a lamp either directly or third party via an assembly.
soren made a nice video explaining how the switch matrix works and what happens when there's a shorted diode. The video is based on a WPC system but the same applies.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/100-challenge-help-me-fix-my-taf#post-5533732
The comments you quoted from 
vec-tor are related to phantom pop bumper activations that's an inherent 'feature' with old Ballys/Sterns. It's a totally separate issue to your random slam tilts.
Quoted from Lovef2k:but after doing swaps and replacing all diodes, caps and switches
Replacing what was missing/faulty caps on the pop bumpers might help exacerbate the problem since they now store energy picked up from flippers current transients.
You can try the 2.2uF 250V polyester capacitors across the EOS switch and also the 0.1uF 500V ceramic capacitor across the flipper button switch to help clamp the current transients. The capacitors will help extend the life of the switches since they reduce the arcing.
Quoted from vec-tor:I was hoping someone would dub a second bridge for only the flippers to see whether
I don't think it will make a difference because you'll still have flipper electrical noise causing cross talk onto the switch matrix wiring. The problem occurs when you release/flip around the same moment the CPU scans the switch matrix. The arcing on the flippers switches is generating more noise which is why the capacitors help the situation but they can't resolve it 100%.
No other coil activations cause the issue because they're activated/deactivated gently on zero crossing resulting in no high current transients.
Quoted from Dakine747:Aaaayep! My '80 Skateball and '78 Playboy have the random coil firings on one of the pop bumpers,,,
I decided it's something that I can live with.
Bally decided they could live with it too. From the Bally FO-601 "Theory of Operation"
"a noise pulse may cause a solenoid to pull (very-very infrequent). However, no points will be added to the players score."
The full paragraph:
"It is to be noted that multiple reading of a switch takes time, i.e., it must be done over several zero crossings before a valid closure can be verified and recorded. This procedure would spoil the response time to a hit on a thumper bumper or slingshot or any electromechanical device that must react quickly. To overcome this difficulty, a special, quick reaction subroutine exists in the program dealing with 'normal operation'. This routine takes place immediately after the memory record of valid switch closures is reviewed. It consists of a review of the previous and current history of just the solenoids that require a quick reaction. If an 'open', 'closed' record is found, the solenoid is energized. No scoring is involved in this routine. The net result is slingshots and thumper bumpers respond 'instantaneously'. They are not allowed to score until a valid closure is detected later. Because of this quick reaction subroutine, a noise pulse may cause a solenoid to pull (very-very infrequent). However, no points will be added to the players score. "
1 month later
Quoted from GKW:Replaced all LEDs with brand new #47 bulbs and then started having issues.
Exactly what issues? Fuse blowing?
Note, even if you remove every G.I. lamp and measure resistance across a G.I. lamp socket, you will read a short circuit. This is because you're reading back through the transformer G.I. winding which is very thick and short effectively close to zero ohms resistance. If you're trying to track down a G.I. short circuit with the machine off, you need to remove the G.I. fuse or disconnect the J4 connector from the rectifier board to isolate the transformer
Quoted from GKW:NOTE: when I was looking at the GI wires in the back box, I noticed a thick orange wire that was not connected to anything and zip-tied to the bundle of wires, just above the player 1 display and bundled with the red and white GI wires. I traced this wire back to the Sounds Plus board, pin 8. In the schematic, it shows that this pin is N/U. Curious as to why they would even add a wire that was not needed and then run it all the way to the top of the lamp door.
Pin 8 on the Sounds Plus board is used to select the sound board - wires should be Brown-Red there. Are you sure this thick orange wire isn't going to pin 7?
If yes it gets interesting. The next game Flash Gordon has a thick orange wire from the lamp door running back to the sound board connector - it's used to power the speech chip on the Squawk & Talk board. So the question is whether Bally may have been working on S&T for Xenon..
Quoted from GKW:#2: 3 bulbs on playfield are turning on. Additionally, when I put the machine into test mode to test controlled lights, all lights, including the ones just mentioned, all flash, although the ones mentioned are brighter and flash at different intervals than the rest.
Sounds like the typical shorted SCRs on the lamp driver board for those lamps.
Quoted from GKW:The Siegecraft boards and the Alltek were properly grounded before use, just to be clear.
To be clear, they must be connected to the 6 volt feature lamp power braid, not ground.
Quoted from GKW:I narrowed down the GI short to the lamp door in the back box, after a lot of troubleshooting.
Did you remove all the #47 incandescents from the lamp door and test them for zero ohms shorts? Don't use continuity mode on your meter, use resistance mode in low scale.
Quoted from GKW:Is this game possessed?!!
When you're swapping lamp driver boards you're inadvertently moving the MPU J4 connector directly above it. Have you re-terminated new crimps at the MPU J4 connector? The MPU board is powered via J4.
3 months later
Quoted from mkdud:Please help if you can. I thought I had this problem fixed, but it just happened again.
I am getting an occasional false switch closure on the outhole switch, as well as a false closure of a slam switch.
Spend 10 minutes to test *every* diode on *every* switch. Put your mulit-meter in diode mode and check if they test ok conducting in one direction but not the other by swapping the meter leads around.
If all diodes test ok then you may have a problem upstream on the MPU board. Does/did the MPU board suffer with battery corrosion?
When the problem happens take note of which drop targets are down and if there's any balls in the saucers.
Quoted from mkdud:Where are the doide(s) located for the coin switches?
They didn't exist until Bally (maybe it was @bigal56) worked out how to add them somewhere in '81 or '82.
If you want to retrofit diodes on the coin chute micro-switches, solder a diode from the N.C switch lug to the COM switch lug. Banded side of the diode on the COM lug. Solder the switch strobe red-green wire to the N.C lug. Solder the switch return wire to the N.O lug of the micro-switch.
Wow that is an exceptional looking MPU board..
The next hard part is examining every switch for any way a leaf/lug could be touching something else it shouldn't.
To re-iterate, when you next see the problem it's important to take note of which drop targets are down and if there's any balls in the saucers. Knowing which switches were closed at the time will help.
1 week later
Quoted from mkdud:I straightened the leads of the diode & cap for switch 01. Many games have been played with no phantom outhole or slam issues.
Fingers crossed you found the issue.
Quoted from mkdud:I vaguely remember sw 28 being discussed before. What exactly is the purpose of SW 28?
See here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/22#post-6256824
2 weeks later
Quoted from mkdud:Looking at the matrix, slam is diagonally opposite the side saucer, and the other switches that make up the square are the left thumper bumper and Coin chute #3 (right coin chute).
Post some clear high res pictures of the side saucer switch side on and face on.
Quoted from mkdud:Also, I have been replacing some of the switch diodes with 1n4004 and 1n4007's. Could this be causing a problem?
Using 1N4007 over 1N4004 makes no difference. 1N4007 is electrically capable of handling higher voltages and that's it.
Quoted from mkdud:Looking at the matrix, slam is diagonally opposite the side saucer, and the other switches that make up the square are the left thumper bumper and Coin chute #3 (right coin chute). What should I be checking to fix this?
Well the issue points at the side saucer switch being diagonally opposite to the slam switch. Test across the two switch lugs the diode is attached to with your multi-meter in resistance mode to check for a short in the switch assembly.
The left pop bumper may have phantom activated by the flippers meanwhile there was likely an issue with the coin chute #3 switch. If the coin switches have three lugs then rewire them with diodes to prevent them allowing shorts in the matrix.
Red-Green wire and non-banded side of the diode on the N.C (normally closed) switch lug, banded side of the diode on the COM (common) switch lug and Red-White wire on the N.O (normally open) switch lug.
Quoted from mkdud:I had replaced the cap and diode on the side saucer,
The saucer switch shouldn't have a capacitor. Or are you confusing the left side entry switch with capacitor you pictured a few posts up?
Quoted from mkdud:I'm curious - what causes the noise in the matrix from the coin switch?
Nothing. I was suspecting intermittent issues with that coin switch closing. The diode on it will stop it causing havoc if it was playing up.
Quoted from mkdud:Could a ferrite beads be used on the left bumper switch lines to eliminate the phantom activations from the flippers?
Doubt it. The phantom activations have been discussed many times. Basically switch return wires pick up back EMF noise from flipper activity because the wires are run together in the loom long distance. Bally even recognises this in their Theory of Operation. Don't get too hung up on this as it's not the cause of your intermittent slam resets.
Quoted from mkdud:I had replaced the cap and diode on the side saucer
I mentioned to test if there was a short across the diode which could indicate an improperly stacked switch. I still suggest to test for a short across the saucer switch diode.
Quoted from mkdud:However, what PIA controls the switches? I was wondering if this could be a wonky PIA that is passing the boot test.
The PIA at U10 is solely responsible for interfacing the switches. I don't think it's your issue but swap it if you want.
At this point you probably need to check the diode at each switch for a short with your meter.
Note, a short may not necessarily be a diode fault, it could be a switch where the leafs are incorrectly stacked and are shorting across the diode.
Note2, take the opportunity to examine each switch for potential shorts to other playfield items. Pay attention to the spinner because the switch leaf connects all metal parts of the spinner including the frame and post screws that may protrude on the bottom of the playfield touching some other mech.
Just to refresh our memory, you are getting the alarm sound when your slam reset happens? Also have you disconnected the two weighted slam switches at the coin door and tilt board in the cabinet?
Quoted from mkdud:I am noticing the outhole is on the same line as the slam
Raise all the drop targets. Remove all balls from the game.
Grab your multi-meter and put it on resistance mode - if it's not auto-ranging then set it to the 200 kilo ohms scale.
Black meter probe on ground, what resistance reading do you get at the white-red wire of the outhole with the meters red probe?
What resistance reading do you get at the brown-white wire of the weighted tilt switch next to the flipper assemblies with the meters red probe?
BTW on your coin door slam switch, do you have the usual mylar stuck to the door so the weighted slam switch leaf isn't making metal to metal contact with the door (i.e. ground) ?
Quoted from mkdud:I get 56k ohms +/- from both switches.
Those are good readings and don't suggest any MPU board problems but try your PIA / Weebly board swaps just incase.
Post pictures of all the switches on the I7 return line including the two weighted slam switches in the cabinet and front coin door. The more pictures from different angles the better.
Quoted from mkdud:AND, I still have the damn phantom slam tilt & phantom outhole problem! ALSO, I noticed that I'm getting phantom closings on the the button switches. During play sometimes unhit targets will just trip.
Your outhole switch looks suspiciously stacked like it's missing the two inner isolating tubes because the fibre spacers aren't all sitting perfectly aligned.
I can't see on the drop target switch where the lug that has the non-banded side of the diode is sitting within the stack. Can you post more pictures of it including the top side where the lugs are?
For Q52 to burn like that usually means the lamp/socket has a dead short.
Quoted from mkdud:Here are some pictures of the #1 target switch.
I still can't see where the lug holding the braid and non-banded side of the diode are in the stack. This lug has no leaf, it's there simply as a connection point for the braid/diode. If it's in the stack along with one of the leafs then this is a problem.
The picture of your outhole switch clearly shows this standalone lug at the bottom with the white-red wire and diode.
Might be time to physically start disconnecting switches obviously starting with the two slam switches in the cabinet/door. Disconnect the wire not attached to the diode and isolate it so it can't short to anything.
Do the same on that left pop bumper switch.
Quoted from mkdud:CR5 through CR8 were replaced on the transformer board a while back with upgraded components (MR 754's see picture). These are the only diodes related to F3, correct? BR2 is solenoids, and BR1 is controlled lamps, correct?
Yes, CR5-CR8 make up a discrete bridge rectifier for the 12 volt circuit fused by F3.
BR2 is for solenoids only.
BR1 is for controlled lamps only.
How violently is the fuse blowing? Post a picture if you still have it.
Quoted from mkdud:What Can I replace the Q20 (labeled E7108004) with?
It's just a LM323 5 volt regulator. It has internal current limiting and thermal protection that will cause it to shutdown in these events. It would not be on my radar as suspect.
I was once working on a Xenon with a reproduction playfield. There's some screwed lugs on the front bottom area that has wires/diodes leading to the trough switches. Someone had screwed one of those lugs where a topside screw was holding the metal trough (which connects to ground via the playfield hangers and lockdown bar receiver). The two screws were touching causing a switch matrix issue. I'm not suggesting you've done the same but playfield swaps can create these unusual scenarios.
Quoted from mkdud:The lug on the target sw #1 is not connected to any leaf and this is where the braid and non-banded side of the diode are going.
Ok.
Quoted from mkdud:Something else that seems weird. In switch test mode, if I close the slam on the tilt panel with my right hand and put my left hand on the side rail, the left pop bumper occasionally fires. I can send a video to your PM if you want.
That's normal. The side rails are connected to ground so you're effectively creating a noisy path on that switch signal to ground causing ghosting in the switch matrix. Avoid touching any metal grounded object when performing manual switch tests.
Quoted from mkdud:Here is a picture of the blown f3. I think this fuse did not blow violently; I think it was just tired.
The fuse wire was wavy from being heat stressed. But I think you mentioned it was a second hand fuse.
Quoted from mkdud:What is the best cleaner and way to get the oxidation out?
I now use metal polish on switch contacts. Some recent discussion in the Firepower club thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/89#post-7592802
Quoted from mkdud:Can anybody see anything wrong with this switch?
Hmm, I usually have an eagle eye but can't see it.
Too much solder on one lug causing a short to something else?
Inner screw tubes missing?
Grab your multi-meter and put it in high resistance mode. Check the resistance between the lugs and also to the metal bracket. You should only measure resistance across the diode lugs in one direction. Everything else should be total open circuit. Remember, with the meter in high resistance mode do not touch the meter probes with your fingers because your body will provide a circuit path and produce false readings.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Tarnx seems to work well for me, even though gold doesn't tarnish?
Sometimes these 40+ year old switches have built up crap/wear that the softly softly cleaning approach doesn't work. Something a little more aggressive without being destructive seems the only way to revive them.
Quoted from mkdud:Thanks so much for the suggestion of Wenol metal cleaner.
Quoted from Lovef2k:Just ordered the Wenol.
someotherguy spoke of using Wenol. I use Autosol metal polish. Anyway should pretty much be the same thing.
I even use it on solenoid plungers, not for bling but rather so there's less friction.
1 week later
Quoted from mkdud:Please help, F4 is blowing in my Xenon after about 30-45 minutes.
The knocker, coin door lockout coil and flippers are all that's fused by F4.
Inspect the green wire (solenoid power) on these coils particularly on the coin door lockout coil since it's close to grounded metal.
All other playfield coils are fused by the playfield fuse since it's lower fusing value (presuming you have the correct 1A slow blow there).
3 weeks later
Quoted from mkdud:I am fairly certain the problem is now solved.
Boy o' boy. Hoping that finally resolves it!
1 month later
Quoted from runpatboyrun:Maybe you should read the question properly as your answer doesn't actually answer the question.
The manual states how Special is lit in the outlanes per the paragraph BigAl56 quoted.
Per Trainmonger above, DIP switch 14 on the MPU board controls the outlanes for liberal or conservative illumination.
Liberal means both the left and right outlanes light at the same time when Specials is available, Conservative means only one of the left or right outlane illuminates when Specials is available. The lit outlane will alternate to the other side when any of the 30 point rebounds, slingshots or pop-bumpers are hit.
1 month later
Quoted from PoBoyPinball:Okay need some help with my ramp could someone measure from the 5 screw points on the ramp down to the playfeild and tell me what they measure. Thanks in advance.
Your measurements are a little different but see if you can cross reference with here?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-gray-posts#post-4346256
1 month later
Quoted from mkdud:On both the wiring diagram and the Sounds Plus schematic, it shows J1 pin 7 as not used.
J1 pin 7 on the sounds plus board is not used. The orange G.I. wire is there as provision in the harness for when they were switching to the Squawk and Talk sound board.
Flash Gordon was first released with Sounds Plus & Vocalizer and then moved to the Squawk and Talk. The harness was already capable in this case.
Maybe Xenon was also going to make the move but didn't.
Quoted from mkdud:I am trying to get rid of a slight hum through the speakers.
Have you tried isolating the sound boards from the metal mounts to eliminate earth loops?
Have you reterminated the J3 connector at the solenoid driver board for better power connectivity to the sound board?
Has the small electrolytic capacitor at C24 been changed on the solenoid driver board?
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Wow how did I not see that. Thanks.
It's a good lesson you need to know working on these old Ballys; deciphering the wire colors in the schematics.
Having said that, here's a cheat diagram:
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:Wow that diagram is gold. Where did that come from?
I drew it with good ol' Windows Paint.
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:So my question, are these two coils supposed to be firing together, or is there an issue?
You have an issue, the pop bumpers should not fire together.
How many points are scored? If you're getting 200 points then both pop bumper switches are activating which could just be they need to be gapped a little more or the spoon side of the switch leaf needs more tension.
Quoted from wrd1972_PinDoc:I checked and they gaps and they are fine.
They might be gapped fine but if not tensioned properly the switch leafs will bounce and touch from vibration of the nearby pop bumper coil. Double scoring will hint at this.
Quoted from play_pinball:Today he went to add more credits and the switch that was bent to make adding credits by hand easier is now triggering the slam tilt.
Any stuck switches in switch test mode?
Quoted from play_pinball:I would still prefer to find and fix the problem, of course.
Of course Take another MPU board with you in case there's something up with that Alltek. It's a bit odd having ghosted switches on the same strobe wire.
2 weeks later
Quoted from play_pinball:More antics from the Xenon I traded to a non-pinhead a few weeks ago...
I could only get 2 balls per game or 4 balls per game to work, so I figured something was up with dipswitch 32.I grabbed another Alltek board I had with me and put it in. First two games, 3 balls per game. Then it went to 4 balls per game. Put another 10 or so games through and still 4 balls per game. What is up here?
Is the bonus counting down after every ball? i.e. is it a trough switch issue?
The 32 DIP switches on the MPU board are only read once during power-up, their settings are then stored in memory and that's what's referenced till the game is rebooted. Once the game hits attract mode you can mess with the switches all you like and they won't make any difference till the game is restarted.
Not sure if it's of any help to try but if you switch the game select to Eight Ball Deluxe, it announces the number of ball settings when it first enters attract mode.
Quoted from play_pinball:Maybe it is worth noting that the ball-in-play display follows correctly to ball 4 (or just 2, depending on dip 31's setting)?
Weird. It's totally controlled by the MPU board - nothing else in the game can affect it.
1 week later
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:I want to insure the settings were correct in the MPU I had.
Most people will have the switches set differently. The only correct settings are the ones that make the game play the way you want. The manual has default settings for 3 or 5 ball on page 12 if that's all you'd prefer to do. Note these games also have some software configured options that are set in the audits via the self test switch inside the coin door.
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