(Topic ID: 174124)

Xenon club...Members Only~Try Xeeeenon

By Yesh23

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 2,258 posts
  • 193 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by legtod2
  • Topic is favorited by 73 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

IMG_1147 (resized).jpeg
IMG_1149 (resized).jpeg
Screenshot 2024-02-28 at 13-36-15 KAIWEETS KWS-105 5 in 1 Wire Stripping Tool Electrical Wire Pliers with Screw Cutter (resized)
WIN_20240213_155205 (resized).JPG
IMG_9722 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9691 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9568 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9563 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9499 (resized).jpeg
IMG_9238 (resized).jpeg
20240131_182010 (resized).jpg
PXL_20240127_194309288 (resized).jpg
PXL_20231208_043805742 (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
image (resized).jpg
Screen Shot 2023-12-04 at 10.09.14 AM (resized).png

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lovef2k.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#361 4 years ago

I just acquired my 3rd Xenon, the first 2 are long gone so I can join the group lol. Xenon was my second pin and my first resto. I did it 10 years ago and restored 7 more games since. This latest addition is rough and I haven't powered her up yet. I plan to do another full resto on this one. I just got the 2019 CPR PF and it's stunning. The game has a nice backglass so I'm good to go except for the cab. It is badly bowed on one side. I have a wood shop local that will gut custom pieces for me but I will have to strip everything from the cab before I can bring it there. I will update with pics as I go.

#364 4 years ago
Quoted from Grnrzr:

I picked up a xenon a while back and noticed it has one cabinet speaker from the factory. Most of the pics on here seem to show two speakers. Anyone else with a one speaker cab?[quoted image]

That's odd, are you sure it's a Xenon cab? Does the serial number on the side start with EXE?

#366 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The speakers are a always questionable... I have a Bally Flash Gordon with two speakers.
As I recall, Bally and others, would put whatever was available, at that time, to keep the
assembly line going. So... if one supply house was going on empty they would use another.

It's my understanding that in the early FG production, the sounds plus board was changed to the Squawk and Talk board. I had an early FG serial number in the low 1000's and it had 2 speakers and sounds plus board. And all the FG's I have seen with Squawk and Talk boards had a single speaker so I always assumed that was they way they were made, but it makes sense that they probably used what was available at the time. I'm sure 1 larger speaker is cheaper than 2 smaller ones and it's 1 less hole that needs to cut. I often wondered if the 2 sound boards are plug and play interchangeable? Or is the cab wiring different?

#370 4 years ago
Quoted from CollinT:

Joining the club!
Playfield is trashed, are there any hard tops out there?[quoted image]

Let the fun begin! They usually have trashed playfields. If it's within your budget, CPR just did another repro. They have gold and silvers left. I just got a gold and it's really nice with no flaws. What game are you hiding behind the Xenon?

#373 4 years ago

From post #368 I asked Mr_Tantrum to come up with an apron card set for Xenon. In less than a week, designed, printed and received. Here pics in a Merf's rerpro apron. These are heavy and glossy so no need for the acetate film on top. A nice added touch to my next Xenon repro! Size 5.5 in by 3.25 in fit's perfectly.

P7260056 (resized).JPGP7260056 (resized).JPGP7260057 (resized).JPGP7260057 (resized).JPGP7260062 (resized).JPGP7260062 (resized).JPG
3 weeks later
#382 4 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Yeah it just wasn’t thought out very well. Someone should’ve come up with the idea to put flashing lights above the playfield.
As I said before, I’ve been playing this game for over 30 years and I never noticed they flash so the effect is completely lost. Might as well be GI.

I thought the same. I ended up putting red led's in those 2 switched lamps by the side eject hole and in the 2 by the shooter gauge to have a better effect.

#383 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I thought the same. I ended up putting red led's in those 2 switched lamps by the side eject hole and in the 2 by the shooter gauge to have a better effect.

Also the 2 ball multi was added very late in the design.

1 week later
#387 4 years ago
Quoted from Roy6585:

Can anyone tell me how to turn on attract mode on a xenon? Thanks in advance.

It's one of the dip switches on the mpu. Can't remember which but it might be listed in the back box tech sheets. Power down game before changing and settings.

3 weeks later
#397 4 years ago

I'm getting my 3rd Xenon restoration under way. I completely stripped the base cabinet. It was really rough, huge chunks of wood missing on the rear corner and lower front middle. One side was bowed inward. So I decided to get a new cab made. I had to take it apart in order for the wood shop to copy the 4 sides, cross members for the bottom and behind coin door. Also redoing the mount for the back box. So it will basically be a new cabinet when complete. Here's today's damage. I'm also taking a poll here. For the bottom do I use 1/4 inch ply, MDF or pressed hardboard?

P9210098 (resized).JPGP9210098 (resized).JPGP9210099 (resized).JPGP9210099 (resized).JPGP9210101 (resized).JPGP9210101 (resized).JPGP9210102 (resized).JPGP9210102 (resized).JPGP9210103 (resized).JPGP9210103 (resized).JPGP9210104 (resized).JPGP9210104 (resized).JPG
#400 4 years ago
Quoted from dombutler:

1/4 ply or pressed hardboard, not mdf!
Does anyone have any color codes for painting the cab? I am making my own stencils, but finding it hard to match the paint as the cabinet has faded.
Would Rust oleum brilliant blue and cherry red be correct?
Thanks,
Dom.

I just found this a couple months ago for the blue it's Rustoleum 2X satin Oasis blue. Judging by the cap it's a real close match. I haven't tried to match the red yet. Reds are pretty easy though, maybe rustoleum apple red? You want it on the darker red side I believe. I'm impressed that you are making your own stencils, why not use Pimp's? I made my own for F2K and was a ton of work, luckily F2K doesn't have intricate artwork. What material are you using for the stencils?

#402 4 years ago
Quoted from dombutler:

I would use Pimp's stencils, but the cost would be the same as my Xenon!(and that it out of my budget for now). I bought $20 worth of Oramask 810 stencil film to try it out and cut it on my works machine. It works fine, though I think I got the order wrong, it is not red first! I tried a part of the design on a piece of scrap wood, you can see I rushed it![quoted image]

Yes the blue is first lol. That's a cool design. I guess you're going custom on the artwork?

1 month later
#438 4 years ago
Quoted from indypinhead:

I had a Xenon...sold it 8 years ago. I have another one now.
Does anyone have a source on where to buy the tube with the laser etching?

I bought one when I first saw it a few years back but I never used it. Compared to the original, the size of the etched tube was a smaller diameter and I was afraid the small might hit the edges of the tube opening. I still may have. I will check.

1 month later
#455 4 years ago

I honestly don't know what that trough switch does. It confused one of my xenons where it was putting 2 balls on the shooter lane. Apparently this was a common problem. I disconnected the switch and the game worked fine after. So I never did reconnect it.

#457 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

When you lift the playfield, the ball in the outhole rolls up to the trough area. When you lower the playfield that second ball is still sitting in the trough area activating that microswitch so the game knows where the two balls are next time you power up. It is important to get those switches properly setup so the game doesn't get confused with that microswitch being activated too long when the ball rolls across it, otherwise the game spits out two balls like you were seeing.
There could be some other reason for that trough microswitch but that's where I found it played it's part.

I guess my switch was improperly adjusted but like I said, after disconnecting it out frustration, the game worked fine without it. Weird. I had 2 Xenons, the first one had no issue with double firing. The second one did and I swapped both PF's.

1 week later
#467 4 years ago
Quoted from Orbian:

You can cut the mirror off using a razor blade and replace it with one from the auto parts store.

That's true. I talked to Greg Kmiec years ago about that. They were in fact the same cheap stick on mirrors sold at auto parts stores for extended viewing angle.

#471 4 years ago
Quoted from zebulon:

I build them myself. I haven't listed them in the storefront yet but I have them in several colours and patterns. They have a vibration switch on the board that triggers a pattern change upon ball strike and I even have the patterns change after a pre-set number of strikes within a preset timeframe.
You can make an entire game out of just trying to get the patterns to change ....
This is just a static loop test ...

These are freaking cool. I want a set for my xenon that I'm restoring soon. Can you run them in attract mode as well?

Any idea on price per cap?

#473 4 years ago
Quoted from zebulon:

To keep them simple (plug and play) each bumper has its own control board, that way you just replace the existing bulb with the cable from the board. I have adapters for both the #555 and BA9S and the cable just plugs into a connector on the board so it's not a permanent mod.
I suppose if I extended the counter reset timer on the firmware I could have it go into attract mode after so many minutes of not being hit.
I put these together last year for a buddy to take to Allentown but never got a chance to get back to the project afterward.
I'm ballparking $35CAD per cap (about $25USD) or 3 for $90CAD (4 would be $120CAD) but I really haven't looked at current pricing on the parts lately.

I'm in. I will be at Allentown this year. Hit me up if you have them finished by then.

#475 4 years ago
Quoted from koji:

New to Xenon and sure loving her.
Thanks to the tips here, and on jeff-z's page, I was able to resolve all of the stucky ball issues, and have things dialed in quite nicely.
Few questions / observations if you have a moment:
1 - Opinions on BB infinity lighting? I tried different LED solutions, including some nice ones with built in caps hoping to mimic the pulse, but nothing is remotely close to running incandescents. Regardless, I was curious about any lighting ideas that people have used here? Again, I really like the fade effect that the incandescents give (and I'm normally a LED all the way person, but I just couldn't do it here.)
2 - Inserts and controlled lighting. WOW- My machine came with an Altek lamp driver, so I figured I was set. Unfortunately, all BUT my more premium LEDs show some ghosting (even though they are all anti-ghosting), and don't show anything noticeable on my other machines. Perhaps this era is quite picky?
3 - On top of the tube, it seems like most pictures I see have a steel cover over the switch base for the tube etc. Attaching a pic here. Does anyone have a part number on this? or is this a mod somewhere? Mine seems to be missing, but this would be a nice cosmetic addition.
Thanks again. Really liking the game, and quickly made it to the top 3 of our collection [quoted image]

Is the jumper wire for running LEDs from the Alltek board connected?

Yes there should be a 2 piece cover for the tube shot micro. You will probably find pics on IPDB.com. Unfortunately they are hard to find if they are missing.

#476 4 years ago

Also I think the infinity lighting in the head are controlled buy the aux lamp driver so you should upgrade that to Alltek as well..

#478 4 years ago

Not a problem @koji. I have done 2 xenon of swaps so far and now will be doing a third soon. So I know a little about it. I was also lucky to speak with the designer of xenon, Greg Kmiec via email about 12 years ago when first entering the hobby.
So you know how to hook up the jumper from the Alltek to the switched lamp bus line? Be sure not to tap into the gi circuit. You want the trace wire inside the lamp board insert that has a heavy bluish green wire soldered to it that feeds the lamps for tilt, game over, shoot again etc. There's also switched lamps that go around the xenon face on the back glass.

The cover will be very difficult to fabricate because it is very small and has 90 degree bends on all 4 sides. I may be a good idea to put a want ad out on the group and on the pinball classifieds site. Orrrr maybe a 3d printer can make them?

Take a look at this vid, pretty cool.

#479 4 years ago

I think the guy on the left with the mustache is Greg

#481 4 years ago

Yup! I have a xenon pf that I haven't torn apart yet. I can get some pics together and post them.
Even if you had the part number I don't think it would help at this point.

#493 4 years ago
Quoted from zebulon:

They are nothing fancy but they'll work ...[quoted image][quoted image]

Some evapor rust will help and them chrome polish.

#494 4 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I would change all of the 44's for 47's though. Less heat. Unless you are leaving the games on 24/7 incandescent aren't going to burn. I've had the same bulbs in my games for over 15 years without issue. If you aren't sure what you have, I believe the 44's usually have the gold colors bases and the 47's have silver.

That's not always the case. Older 47s will have brass/gold base. the number is stamped on the base.

#499 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

I want to see one of these installed in person. Most of my pf is pretty nice because it was factory (or operator early on) mylared but the standard wear is there between the flippers and most of the inserts look like they are as old as they are. Seems like unless I also replaced all the inserts I'd still have that problem even with the hardtop so I don't think it would be worth the effort as opposed to buying a NOS or repro PF and doing a full swap.

It was nice of zebulon offer the covers. They are better than mine as I just noticed mine has a dent on one. Anyway if you need the 2 screws they are #6 panhead screws 2 and 3/4 inch long. They are the only 2 on the pf that are that long so you can't rob them from somewhere else.

Did you look into the bulb condoms to change the colors. You can also buy colored number 47 and 44 for the infinity lamps if no LED.

1 week later
#505 4 years ago
Quoted from 20eyes:

I'm working on a Xenon and found an orange wire that seems to go nowhere on the backbox door. I've traced it to J4 pin 9 on the power supply pcb. I'm trying to figure out if this wire is supposed to be connected to something since I can't see anywhere that looks like it may have been cut from or was it a factory oops that was cut short or didn't need to be there. Its just seems odd to me that its runs all the way to that point and is just seemingly cut off for no reason.
[quoted image]

I had 2 prior Xenons and they both had the orange mystery wire, don't worry about it? Is your game having issues?

1 month later
#512 4 years ago
Quoted from EdHess:

Just a heads up. CPR put Xenon backglasses up on their website last night. Yes they are finally shipping. Think mine might be the first out the door!.

#518 4 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

Yes, please post some pictures and if at all possible with it next to an original for comparison.

I talked to Greg Kmiec years ago about Xenon, he told me interesting facts. Those mirrors are just stick on mirrors that were sold in auto parts store back then. It's a convex blind spot mirror. If somebody could measure the diameter of these and post it, that would be great. Mine is buried at the moment. I'm guessing around 4 inches. Here's the closest I found to 4 inches.

https://smile.amazon.com/Camco-25613-Round-Convex-Mirror/dp/B004MDZ5NI/ref=wl_mb_wl_huc_mrai_1_dp

I was thinking of changing it up somehow with a custom mirror. Maybe something facetted or different color such as blue or purple, but would be difficult to find. I have a nice glass already so I haven't been that motivated to search.

Another note, these mirrors were given out at show as a promotional item. The had a xenon sticker placed over them. Pretty rare to find but I got one.

#519 4 years ago

Sorry for the typos,
given out at shows, They had a xenon sticker placed over them...

#520 4 years ago

My curiosity got the best of me and I dug out my xenon. I'm lucky that my inner glass is perfect still. I also like the fact that you don't need a lift channel, only for the outer glass. So the mirror is 3 3/4 so the amazon mirror should be a close enough match. I also found one on Napa:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/GRO12014?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9ZzzBRCKARIsANwXaeI5k4s-aqwh_FO4qQG0Z52mV0oe6vO4Im3pYg1D25vvH9iUsPEamjIaArQEEALw_wcB

#523 4 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

I remember seeing those promotional mirrors.
Excellent that you have one.

Yeah it's one of my favorite pinball collectibles. I also have the Xenon poster and had professionally framed. I'll post a pic one of these days.

#531 4 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

This photo was taken nearly two years ago - both glasses came out of old machines. Wide variance of what shipped from factory. Glass on the right has more detail, glass on the left has more yellow. Click to zoom in.
[quoted image]

That's interesting. I wonder if the one on the right has faded. I also noticed that the woman at the bottom seems to be looking left on the left glass and right on the right glass or am I just crazy?

#532 4 years ago
Quoted from EdHess:

And with that said my modded total restoration is now complete![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nice work! Where did you get the bumper caps?

#534 4 years ago

I think koji and I are both agreeing here, jinx!

#542 4 years ago

I lucked out, I bought a project xenon at Pinfest last year and the glass is perfect. The outer glass was replaced with smoked pexi. Bought another head with a good outer glass and the wood is in better shape.

2 weeks later
#559 3 years ago
Quoted from frenchmarky:

My Xenon is long long gone, might have been the first SS game I ever bought back in the 80s. Wish I'd kept it, mylared pf and everything. Anyway an interesting thing was when I got it, it had a little bluish-colored paper-backed rectangle of foil over the 'Bally' logo, purposely cut to cover it perfectly, stuck with tape behind it. And this was behind the outer clear glass so somebody would have had to go to a little trouble to put it there (or remove it, which I did). Only thing I could think of is that it had been used in a TV show or movie or something and they had to cover it up like putting tape over the label of a beer can. But if that was it, why not just stick it on the outer glass? Any other ideas? I still wonder about it.

That sounds logical and with you being in Ca. this is even more possible. Check out these movies from this list. It's cool because it gives you the exact time frame the pins are show so you won't need to watch the whole movie.
I found 2 Xenons page 1.

http://www.pingeek.com/film/film.htm

http://www.pingeek.com/film/film2.htm

#566 3 years ago
Quoted from Damonator:

Thanks so much - that makes much more sense. I like that metal shield on top of the trough - I have an early run Xenon that used a plastic shield. I only have one speaker in the cabinet as well whereas most people seem to have two.[quoted image]

I would think the later Xenon would have one speaker. I had an early Flash Gordon that used the Xenon sound and speech boards, it also had the 2 speakers. Later FG used the Squawk and Talk, single speaker and xenon was released just before FG. But who knows! Maybe they just used what ever was lying around at the time. Your serial number should also tell you weather early or later production.

#569 3 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

My Flash has 2 speakers and squawk and talk.

I always wondered if the Sounds Plus and Vocalizer set up are interchangeable with S&T without re-wiring the connector.

#573 3 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

According to the schematics, the connector to the Sounds Plus board doesn't have the G.I wire used by the S&T board to create the -5V supply for the TMS5200 speech chip.
Although the picture of the Sounds Plus connector earlier in the thread shows otherwise with the heavy orange wire at pin 7:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/3#post-4085468

FWIW, you might notice it makes the connector compatible with the earlier -32/-50 sound boards.. Of course it's another matter of the MPU board ROMset supporting it.

Speaking of the Tms5200, I remember they were getting scarce a few years ago. Is there a viable replacement for it yet?

#579 3 years ago
Quoted from Spudgunman:

Just pulled this out of a barn and back from the dead. Only thing not working is the insert chasing lights. Has altek, paid nothing for it just some labor helping clean a mess up.[quoted image]

Wow, in a barn and it still booted and the back glass is good! Amazing.

2 weeks later
#625 3 years ago
Quoted from Gnrwarkfc:

Thanks everyone! Also does anyone know what all the numbers on the sound settings are? Everyone has told me to get to 18 and then set it to 3. Does anyone know what the rest of the settings do?

The lower settings have less back ground effects, I think the 0 setting is just an electronic chime sound for nostalgia. But the speech will work on any of the settings.

#626 3 years ago
Quoted from semicolin:

Can I suggest you update the tube spec listed with I.D. or O.D. on the measurement? It will save folks trouble later.

I got my calipers out and measured a tube that I bought from PBR a few years back. I can't say if this is an original Bally part or a reproduction from standard acrylic tubing. The cut ends are a little rough as if cut by hand. It's 12 7/16 long. OD= 1.5 inches. ID= 1.25 inches. Wall thickness = .125 inches.

2 weeks later
#672 3 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Correct, never file any gold plated switch contacts; I like to use a clean piece of paper with a touch acetone on it to pull through the contacts points.
The only time you can file contacts on a solid state is on a title like Haunted House or Black Hole which has MPU controlled EM style relays for the flipper power and GI control.

You can also file the flipper EOS and cabinet flipper switches.

#674 3 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Have to be careful on that too as some titles have flipper control boards like Data East.

Oh ok. I was talking more about the early solid state games.

2 months later
1 week later
#700 3 years ago
Quoted from StoneyCreek:

Does anyone know the actual height that Xenon should be set to? I bought a partially shopped machine that has some old rusted out (can't adjust) legs and it just seems a bit too too high.
Measurement to top of flipper button is 35.5" (on my 90's Stern, it's 34.4")
I drilled out the feet on the front of the machine but that only lowered it a little. The legs are 29.5" front and back not including the feet.
what is the height of your flipper buttons?

I would put some penetrating oil on the levelers and soak for a while. Use vise grips to remove the old studs from the levelers and replace w new. Buy 2 inch for front legs and 3 inch for rear. Right now you probably cannot level the game from side to side with frozen levelers.

Game pitch is player preference. If you like fast , place a 3/4 inch piece of lumber under the rear legs for now.

Not much you can do about game height except use longer legs than the factory 28.5. Old bally games look dwarfed to me when lined up w newer games.

#706 3 years ago
Quoted from StoneyCreek:

Thanks everyone for the confirmation that the legs on mine are not original, or the right size. I'll need to order a new set.

May I suggest these?

https://www.pinballlife.com/bally-gray-legs-set-of-4.html

#711 3 years ago
Quoted from mkdud:

Please help or advise if you can.
I have a Xenon #9810 that had an overlay installed by the previous owner. I am going to do a PF swap. I have to choose between a new in box CPR Gold replacement, or an NOS playfield that is showing signs of lacquer crazing and has some scratches and paint damage (see pics).
In any case, I would have the NOS playfield professionally restored / repaired and then clear coated. Who would you suggest that I send the NOS playfield to for paint repair and clear coating?
I will be doing the PF Swap, and I'm currently making a PF rotisserie from a miter saw stand
Which one (NOS or CPR playfield) should go in my machine? I realize there may be no right or wrong answer. I just would like to hear what others think, especially from those that might have done some swaps using both NOS and CPR playfields.
Thanks in advance, mk [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nos since you are clearing it.

1 month later
#723 3 years ago
Quoted from dmarston:

Record Store Day releases for September 26, 2020 include the "A Life in Waves" album by Suzanne Ciani. It's billed as a career retrospective, and it has some of her commercial work, but no Xenon sounds.
.................David Marston

I watched the YouTube vid with her on Letterman and she didn't no any xenon sounds then either. Maybe they are copywrited?

1 month later
#726 3 years ago

I have a project xenon myself and I also did 2 xenon PF swaps on other games I had in the past. Now I can see that mine was also hacked but the tube and lamp strip are there.

Let's start w the lamp strip. So yes the holes you circled are correct. But it doesn't use a spool spacer there or at the other end, if you used a spool there, then the strip would be too low. It should be a grey plastic spacer, similar to the one under the ramp only longer, approx 1 and 5/8 of an inch. With the lamp strip it also has a fiber washer on the top and bottom of the pcb to prevent cracking. Under the screw head is a #6 flat washer. My lamp strip spacer have been swapped by somebody. They actually used a spacers on each side so I can't say for certain that the height is correct but it looked close to me and there was the correct amount of screw thread left to install. And the screws look original to me.

Ok, the tube. The right side clamp shares the same hole as the lamp strip. You have the left side correct. So the tube will rest on the 2 screw heads holding the 2 spool spacers by the right ramp exit. The point on the ramp exit should rest on the bottom opening of the tube. the left end will rest on the metal bar by the down ramp. It's held down with a 1 1/2 inch cable clamp and the spool spacer. I'm sure someone will post pics for you, my game isn't fit right now.

Spacer similar to this: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/03-6047-17

#737 3 years ago
Quoted from StoneyCreek:

OK thanks. that's a great idea. will do it.

If you can solder and your harness is in bad shape you can buy a new one from third coast pinball here on PS.

#740 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I’m in the club
Will be doing a restore on this baby! Can’t wait to start this project![quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Congrats, Xenon was my second pin and first restore. That was over 10 years ago and I'm gearing up to do another one.

#742 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

In posts 725-729 a few of you guys talked about the spacers that are for the tube and the light strip. Did any find a replacement? Im in the same boat here and need them.

In post 726 at the bottom I posted a link for the spacer you need, of course you need 2 of them. Read the second paragraph to see what else goes with the lamp strip.

#745 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Ok I saw that but wasn’t sure if that was determined the fix because you said “similar to” with the link. Thanks!
I just need the 2 for the lamp strip ends.

I have a bunch of spools from otter projects I tried to use and the light strip was too low, was bending on the pop bumper. They would definitely need another spacer on top of them to help lift it a little more.

Yes you 2 of these 1.5 inch spacers. The spool spacer is for tube not lamp strip. The spool is too short as you found out plus the diameter is also too small.

I said similar because Marco didn't show the color which is dark grey. But it probably won't matter since you really don't see them from the players perspective. Do you have the original hardware?

#746 3 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Yes you 2 of these 1.5 inch spacers. The spool spacer is for tube not lamp strip. The spool is too short as you found out plus the diameter is also too small.
I said similar because Marco didn't show the color which is dark grey. But it probably won't matter since you really don't see them from the players perspective. Do you have the original hardware?

Need 2

#751 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Since were up in this area of the playfield. What’s the fix here?
Can’t win. Get it to allow the ball to roll back but then it’s not enough to engage the switch.
[quoted image]

Man somebody really hacked this poor game. The trip wire for the micro switch needs to be adjusted, but you can do that after the hardtop install. Marco used to carry new trip wires, you may need one and start over.

Starting at left behind the down ramp. That screw hole is correct but the post is wrong. Save the spool post for the tube left side clamp. The post there should be a 1.5 inch plastic spacer. It looks like your lamp strip is broken? A good replacement is sold here from igo4rams. You are missing the fiber washers and the #6 flat washers. I will try to post pics of the hardware later. The stud and cap nut are incorrect. It should be a phillips head post screw, flat washer and 2 fiber washers, one on each side of the lamp strip mounting holes.

Now to the right. The metal post must go. It appears they didn't have the correct rubber and just threw that in then and added another rubber. Refer to pinflips post #725. The holes he circled in yellow are correct. On yours there's an empty screw hole, that's also not correct. The right side lamp strip mounting hole should be near that added metal post, it may even be the hole that they screwed the metal post into, hard to tell from pic.

So my assumption is this. They added metal post to add extra rubber and then moved the lamp strip to a new hole where there is no screw now.

Does the hardtop have any holes already cut out for this area?

#752 3 years ago

These may help. From my swap from 2009.

File165 (resized).jpgFile165 (resized).jpgFile167 (resized).jpgFile167 (resized).jpgFile242 (resized).jpgFile242 (resized).jpgFile276 (resized).jpgFile276 (resized).jpgFile277 (resized).jpgFile277 (resized).jpgFile352 (resized).jpgFile352 (resized).jpg
#753 3 years ago
File161 (resized).jpgFile161 (resized).jpgFile586 (resized).jpgFile586 (resized).jpgFile587 (resized).jpgFile587 (resized).jpgFile590 (resized).jpgFile590 (resized).jpgFile591 (resized).jpgFile591 (resized).jpgFile592 (resized).jpgFile592 (resized).jpg
#754 3 years ago

After looking at this pic, I realize I was wrong about the 1.5 inch spacer under the lamp strip. It appears that it should be a spool spacer stacked with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch spacer.

File585 (resized).jpgFile585 (resized).jpg
#755 3 years ago

For those that don't know, the red post you see by the left thumper is Greg Kmiec's signature hidden post.

#757 3 years ago

Calipers out things are getting serious lol. Your 3 pic the tube clamp should be mounted on reverse side of tube. Where it is now should be a mini post.

#758 3 years ago

I have a bunch of those clamps if you need a pair. They are new. Just 1 1/2 inch wire harness clamps.

#760 3 years ago

Oh ok. I think they used a mini post there because it looks nice than the spool. Your game your choice.
The clamps are cheap. Just pm me your address.and I'll throw them in the mail.

#765 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I really don’t like the look under the tube. The exposed posts and rubbers seem like the game is under cooked.
This isn’t 100% but you guys get where I’m going here.
Heres the original layout
[quoted image]
took a stab at creating a shape for the plastic
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Did some scanning and editing
[quoted image]
Something like this
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I'll probably add some more cloud shapes by the lower post to match the other side. With a light underneath I think itll look alright
[quoted image][quoted image]
If anyone already made something like this in the last 40 years please let me know. I don’t want to reinvent the wheel.
Once I dial in the shape and the art work I’ll use waterslides and consider an approach to lighting. [quoted image]

That's clever, but I would think a solid piece from the top of that thumper, all the way down? And how did you make/apply the artwork?

#780 3 years ago
Quoted from pyrotech:

My jet bumper was loose on the right side so I tighten the screws up, now it not firing. I replace the coil about 4 months ago it hums when I do the test on coil but does not make that pop sound. Any ideas. Thanks

Is the pop bumper moving freely by hand?

1 week later
#802 3 years ago

nice score, I'll be doing a full resto on one this year.

#813 3 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I see you're in NJ. I'll cruise down and we can restore these together.
I'm following mrm_4 and his Xenon thread...lots of good stuff and pointers even early on. This PF looks pretty nice...might go touch up and clearcoat to preserve the original. Of course, there's still some mylar up top that has to be removed first...and probably a pound or two of flour/isopropyl work.

Yes you know me I bought your spy hunter. I moved further south in NJ since then.

#815 3 years ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I know Rich!!! My fault. I thought my post said “I see you’re still in NJ.” I was tired and dictatyping..it missed a word.
I remember you told me you were moving, but I forgot you were staying in the state.

pm sent

1 week later
#868 3 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Is there a list of places y’all get game parts from? Also, what is the best fuse to put here?
[quoted image]

3 amp sloblo

#873 3 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Thanks. The one currently in the game has a spring with square of solder in it. I’ve not seen one like it and was wondering if it’s a special fuse.

Take a magnifying glass and read the barrel of the fuse. The spring is indicative of a slow blow fuse. If you find 3A on the barrel you should be good. If I remember correctly, the letters MDL also indicate that it's a slow blow. Actually you should verify all fuses since you never know what previous owners have used just to get by. Be careful messing around near the high voltage section of the rectifier and solenoid driver boards. Pull the ac plus when checking fuses.

1 week later
#893 3 years ago
Quoted from sgorsuch:

Lots of cleaning ensued for the larger assemblies.Using water, soap, SOS pads- oh and rubber gloves. Doused in alcohol and air dried.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
Installing the wire harness was enjoyable. I had the old playfield nearby to use as a reference.
[quoted image]
After cleaning the flipper assemblies, I felt that there was sufficient wear on on the components to warrant a new flipper rebuild kit.There was plenty to do while waiting for these to arrive.
[quoted image]
I had ordered new pop bumper bodies- these were significantly smaller than the original. This became a challenge later when trying to install the pop bumper caps. I have never cared for the bayonet style of lamp holder for the pops and have always preferred the #555 wedge base with insulated wire leads.

The bumper bodies don't look correct to me, more like the later Bally such as used on EBD, Fathom, etc.

#894 3 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

The bumper bodies don't look correct to me, more like the later Bally such as used on EBD, Fathom, etc.

You may have done this intentionally so that you could use the 555 socket? I'm pretty sure that you can use the pre-wired 555 socket in the original style body as well, I think there are LED mods that can be used in them as well?

#898 3 years ago
Quoted from sgorsuch:

I would definitely say that working my way through the harness had to be the most rewarding portion of this project. Soldering each conductor and seeing the tags disappear was quite satisfying.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
One item i neglected to mention was the use of a small power supply- i think it was 6 volt dc. Used it to verify all the lamps were working.

To me the most satisfying part of the swap is when you throw the switch and don't get smoke. MY first swap was also Xenon. Somehow I tied in the 2 switched lamps by the side saucer to the GI circuit and fried some SCR's on the Aux lamp driver. I think I got mixed up with the orange jumper wires in that area.

Second swap was EBD. Upon start up, on of the memory coils locked and burned up, but the game was working fine prior to swap so I learned after that to only plug in J1 to the rectifier board which only supplies power to the GI lamps. If all is good, then complete the other connections and pay close attention for anything odd, burn smells especially.

I tried the dishwasher method on the EBD harness but wasn't thrilled with the results. Most of the switch contacts turned black. Now I just use a spray cleaner and scrub brush.

#909 3 years ago
Quoted from mkdud:

I thought this switch would be fast response, especially if the spinner really gets smacked.

I have never seen a switch cap on a spinner. The xenon spinner doesn't really rip as it's far away from the flippers.

#911 3 years ago
Quoted from pyrotech:

Before and after I replaced the solenoids for the flippers my spinner would spin like crazy.

Nice, I had 2 Xenons and the spinner was just average. I love hitting it when the 1000 points is lit.

#915 3 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-gray-posts#post-4346256
and again the bracket goes on top of the plastic to the left above the spinner for the very seldom air-ball

I just looked at the link you posted, this is very helpful since I will be doing a swap in the near future. I had done 2 Xenon swaps about 10 years ago so I forgot alot. Plus you never know what has been done to a game by previous owners. Thanks for posting!

1 week later
#921 3 years ago
Quoted from Gnrwarkfc:

Hello everyone! I have a xenon and the pop bumper closet to the saucer by the roll over target isn’t popping as much as the other ones. It does some times but nowhere near the amount as the others. Does this indicate that it’s coil needs to be replaced?

Could be a few things. Dirty switch contacts. Worn out contacts. Switch capacitor going bad. Switch needs adjustment. Should be about 1/16th or so. Skirt or spoon worn out.

Make sure it moves freely. Coil might be swelled from overheating or coil sleeve needs replaced.

Poor connection at solenoid driver. Lastly replace switch transistor if all else fails.

#937 3 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

I have replaced all fuses. I have GI lights and nothing else. I have in my possession new MPU and Solenoid driver boards I’ve not yet installed. I have already installed the LED board and re pinned the broken wire on the LED board with .100 trifurcon pin.

I always start at the power supply. The rectifier board at the bottom of the main cabinet. Known as the -54. These boards tend to have burnt traces on the bottom so visually inspect it. Replace if you see dark spots. Marco sells a replacement.
You will need a good quality VOM meter. I suggest the Fluke 117 if you need to buy one. Unplug J1 thru 4 on the -54 and check the test points. This will be a no load test. If you don't know the values you can find them on pinwiki.com in the Bally/Stern section. There's a ton of helpful info about all of the boards in the game.
I believe all of the voltages are DC except the GI voltage which is AC so adjust meter accordingly. If you get a reading that is way off or zero. Unplug game and check the fuse by ohming it out, sometimes a fuse may look good but still be bad.
Also make sure the fuses are the correct type and amperage value.
If everything checks out good with power supply, reconnect connectors there and move on to the solenoid driver. Verify voltages at test points. Again pinwiki.com has all the info you need. If solenoid driver is good move on the mpu and do the same. The power supply and solenoid driver board have a high volt section so be very careful not to touch with bare hands or short anything with your meter probes.

Disconnect the sound board power up game paying close attention to the led on mpu board. There should be a flicker first and then 7 flashes if mpu is working correctly. If not count the flashes and report back here.

#942 3 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Should I play it a bit to see what’s working or keep going through everything? Something caused the pin to burn up on the driver board. I’d like to avoid burning up the one I just got.

Please be more specific as to which wire had the burned connector. Was it at the power supply or the solenoid driver? J?

Q19 is your coin lock-out coil and will remain lit while the coil is activated. No cause for alarm there. Those a known as "constant coils", same with the flipper enable.

The Alltek board should take care of any ground mods that were needed on the original board so you might be ok with that burnt connector.

If you didn't know already, Xenon is a 2 ball multi ball game so make sure there are 2 balls loaded in trough.

1 week later
#973 3 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Someone in CA buy this thing!
ebay.com link » Xenon Pinball Machine Not Working Bally 1980

Wow that's an early one. If I wasn't in NJ I would!!

#988 3 years ago
Quoted from Gnrwarkfc:

Thanks everyone for the help! I figured out the coil but I can’t find the switch. Does anyone know which switch powers the pop bumper on this game? Looking firvthat part.

It's mounted directly under the pop bumper with an L shaped bracket. Complete switch assembly for these are NLA. You may need to find an equivalent or rebuild it. Replace the capacitor while your at it. It's a .050 mfd and hard to find so use a .047 mfd instead.

#990 3 years ago
Quoted from Gnrwarkfc:

Thanks everyone for the help! I figured out the coil but I can’t find the switch. Does anyone know which switch powers the pop bumper on this game? Looking firvthat part.

The actual part number is ASW-A110-5. This one is probably the closest match available:

https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-pop-bumper-switch-sw-11a-37.html

#993 3 years ago

Holy Hack! This from a project Xenon I bought in 2019. I'm just getting to it for the restore and pulled the boards. As you may know, CR1,2 and 3 get very hot on the Vocalizer board. I found a broken trace under the pcs at that spot and this loop of diodes. He also swapped c25 with a 1000 mf that should 100mf. The MPU is original and toasty. I found to pry it from the plastic spacers.

P1310287 (resized).JPGP1310287 (resized).JPGP1310288 (resized).JPGP1310288 (resized).JPG
2 months later
#1062 2 years ago

Common issue with xenon. Xenon. Has 2 kickers for the the trough. So first ball should be sent over to the shooter lane kicker then second ball should remain in the center trough area until first ball gets kicked to the shooter lane.

If both balls are being sent to the shooter together then it's a timing issue with the micro switch under the apron. I disconnected the micro on mine and it has been working great.

The micro is supposed to tell the mpu where the ball is but for some reason it doesn't work as intended.

If ball is just sitting in the center trough area you may have dirty contacts or need adjustment. Test switch for closure with ball sitting there and not by pushing manually.

#1066 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Anyone have a link for a replacement micro switch in question? Im getting fed up with tinkering with mine and im at "the replace the thing" point

Do what I did and it's free. Just desolder one of the wires to the micro and see what happens. Imo that micro isn't necessary.

I think it's the same switch found on bally coin doors if you really want to replace it.

3 weeks later
#1076 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Anyone know where to source the 2-3/4" #6 screws that hold the back ramp covers in place? Best I can find is 3" -- and only sold in a pack of 100 . I'd thought about converting it to a machine screw with a t-nut, but there's a pesky switch bracket right under there on the bottom of the playfield.

That's a tough one to find. Are you measuring the threads only? I have a bunch of spares. PM me your address and I'll throw a few in the mail. Just be sure of the length. From my experience, the ramp switch cover screws are well over 2 3/4, or are these for something else? Pic?

1 week later
#1080 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

In switch self test I get number 21 flashing #4 drop target. On the inside of the drop target assembly there is a braided wire running from drop target 1 to 3 and there seems to be a piece missing to number four. Should there be a piece connecting it and if so what type of wire is it?
[quoted image][quoted image]

You are showing us coils but you are doing a switch test? What prompted you to do a switch test? From the pic, it looks like the braid ends at the 4th coil. Have you ran the coil test, if so, do all coils fire?

If a switch shows closed during switch test, especially a DT that is in the reset position, usually indicates a shorted diode on that switch or a physical issue making the switch short. Also the switched on the rear of the DT bank are vulnerable since they face outward and often get thrown out of adjustment by the PF prop rod hitting them by accident.

#1082 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

New pinball owner trying to get this Xenon going. Thanks

We're here for ya. Just tell us anything that doesn't look or seem right.

#1086 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

This one is more typical of the original design. Not sure if the open ended one would hold the tube as well, but I could be wrong.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/040-5000-10

Agreed, I have a bunch of new ones. dscapo if you want a pair I can send you some for a couple dollars for postage if you aren't ordering anything from Marco in the near future.

#1090 2 years ago
Quoted from dscapo:

I appreciate the offer. I’m ordering stuff from marcos every other week so I’ll add some next time. Thanks

Good to hear, I wish they had used something nicer than a stupid harness clamp LOL!

#1100 2 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Xenon was the first game I put up here on my wishlist back in 2013.....and I finally brought one home tonight! It was in a hoarder's house along with a Lost World, a Comet, a Fireball home version, a T2 arcade, and a couple dozen slot machines. Luckily the MPU battery had been swapped out so no corrosion damage. Cabinet has a few obligatory paint nicks, coindoor is beautiful, backglasses are beautiful, and the playfield is amazing. Guessing the hoarder guy just had it sitting untouched for years, which helped with the lack of wear. I bought a CPR PF years ago from the last silkscreened run because every Xenon I see is blown out to some extent, but now I don't think I'll need to use it. Pics to come once I clean it up a little.

Nice score!

1 month later
#1107 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Have to show you one more picture...
[quoted image]

I don't get it. Is this a house of worship? Is that Suzanne on the balcony LOL.

#1114 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Unfortunately, Suzanne Ciani is not a member of our parish. I would love to listen to her playing our church organ

Lol, that would be cool!

#1117 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Is this prototype real? Anybody know the story behind this XRated Nipple playfield? ebay.com link: itm

I read about it on rgp years ago so probably legit. Idk about one of a kind though. There may be others in games.

I talked to Greg K years back. The real proto had a black plastic ramp as opposed to stainless.

#1118 2 years ago

After looking at his other playfields for sale, this could be a cpr. They didn't have the hologram on their pfs back then but I vaguely remember them offering the nipple version for sale. Roughly 2009ish.

#1120 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

That makes sense. I’ve been looking for a CPR because I’ve been restoring my machine and the playfield is warped pretty severely. If anyone has one please hit me up. I’d gladly take a non-nipple version for half the price!

Cpr did xenon again in 2019.

#1127 2 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Who here has replaced the pop bumper caps in their Xenon? I understand that current replacements from Marco Specialties are a lighter blue than the original, which were a deep, rich blue plastic. Looks like the photo of the caps at Pinball Resource also shows the lighter blue. Can anyone recommend where to buy caps with the original darker blue plastic?

All of the reproduction caps I have seen are a lighter blue. I just used the best originals I had. You can always add blue bulbs which helps somewhat.

#1128 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Using LED with the original lamp driver board will require that you solder a resistor parallel to each and every switched lamp. If you do not, the current will not be high enough to keep the SCR switched on and lead to constant flicker. The Alltek board has these resistors already on board. Anyhow, self-soldering will be the cheaper solution.

When using the new Alltek lamp driver, adding resistors isn't necessary. They have eliminated this problem somehow beyond my knowledge. All that has to be done is run a jumper wire from new board to the switched lamp voltage supply bus line which can be picked up on the lamp panel for the score displays. The jumper wire is supplied with the new board.

#1129 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Using LED with the original lamp driver board will require that you solder a resistor parallel to each and every switched lamp. If you do not, the current will not be high enough to keep the SCR switched on and lead to constant flicker. The Alltek board has these resistors already on board. Anyhow, self-soldering will be the cheaper solution.

Sorry I didn't see your earlier post which covered this already

#1133 2 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

My 2009 CPR gold edition has the hologram.[quoted image]

I don't recall mine having it. But then again, I bought mine from HSA a few months after CPR released them. I had an odd ball because the 4 top green inserts were replaced with blue ones on mine. I guess CPR ran out of green. I was made at first but though, eh, it looks kinda cool.

#1134 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

They just have the resistors on board.

Oh ok, I never understood the need for the jumper wire to the switched lamp power feed though.

#1136 2 years ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

The resistors are in parallel to the bulb, but the other end of the bulb is not available on the board.

aaahhhh, got it!

4 weeks later
#1184 2 years ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Someone mentioned clearing the hardtop, the ones I am talking about are acrylic, I was under the impression these would not be cleared? I know they recommend a coat of clear over the bare wood to help the adhesion of the hardtop, is that what you guys are talking about? I’ve never done a hardtop before.

Yes the clear coat before laying the HT. From what I have been told, Spray Max 2X is the way to go. It gases out faster than urethanes. If the clear is still gassing out after the HT was applied, it may bubble in spots. Also any cluster of inserts need to have LED's installed for heat reasons.

#1188 2 years ago

I played a Wizard and Jokerz with a hardtop and they played very nice. What I like is that the ball roll is very quiet compared to a cleared PF. Yes they are a big job to install, but IMO less work than doing a complete swap. Especially on a CPR pf. Since the repro pf's are cut using a donor pf, there will be differences like dimple locations, insert colors to name a couple. You need to be super careful when placing things like drop target banks, sling shot mounts etc. CPR uses maple and that's a hardwood. Pre-drilling dimples and pilot holes is a must if you don't want to strip the screw heads or worse, snap any screws. I found that using a little bar soap on the threads helps. Like the old timers did with a soap stone.

As far as inserts crazing, that usually goes away when sanding the original factory finish away. Clearing prior to hardtop install brings them back to like with the original deep colors that you don't get with today's replacement inserts. But sometimes inserts can be heat stressed and have small cracks, then of course need replaced.

#1191 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I just did a Flash Gordon; didn't predrill a single hole or lube screws and had zero problems. The markings under the playfiled did leave something to be desired but hardly an issue if you are skilled enough to do a playfield swap.
If you want to compare notes: Crazed inserts you can't do anything but replace (which I just did on another project) and the fonts are not quiet correct on the Xenon hardtops.
I also own a Xenon which has an original playfield.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Good for you!

I was merely comparing the differences between doing a swap on a repro and installing a HT.

My experience with cpr was different than yours. I have done 8 of them including a FG. All of which had their quirks.

Maybe I don't understand crazed inserts. I had 2 f2k pfs rescreened and was able to save most of the inserts.

I still recommend predrilled pilot holes. Why force a screw into hard wood? One slip of the screwdriver and your screwed? There are different skill levels of everyone in the hobby and I try to give the advice to help everyone.

#1193 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Common on Ballys for the inserts to be junk, nothing can be done about it. In the future I might replace all the ones in my Xenon and clearcoat the playfield, they are pretty crazed.

Are you sure the crazing isn't just the clear finish deteriorating? You'll never find those deep blue inserts like original on the xenon. The new blue is so washed out. The green aren't much better.

#1200 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Two things need addressed after a few days of playing. 1)The mini post next to the tube entrance is missing and 2)the Spinner hangs up occasionally and doesn’t score points. I’ve adjusted the spinner a few times to score and spin freely but the wire catches on the side as the little white washers hang up. Any help on what to do and what is the correct post for the tube shot would be great.

Can you post pic of spinner? It sounds like something could be bent or misaligned.

I have tons of mini posts if you need one but you have to see if the threads or hole is blown out.

#1202 2 years ago

The arch looks bent on right side. That could cause some friction. Also try cleaning up the wire that runs through the spinner with fine steel wool. Make sure link is straight and centered with hole in pf.

Is the missing post a through hole or wood thread? I'm not home to look at mine right now.

#1208 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

New altek board and LED lights in the back box and GI have been working fine. Whenever I try to put the LED’s under the playfield the 20A fuse blows. Put 47 bulbs back in and all is fine. Switch back to LED’s and fuse pops again.

You probably have a bad (shorted) LED bulb. I had one once with a solder blob on the tip and took out an SCR when putting one in a switched lamp. Inspect them closely. You may need to buzz them with a meter if you don't see anything obvious at first.

#1210 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Spinner is working like a charm after the advice. Still looking for a solution to the missing post. Game is playing fine with the 47 incandescent bulbs. Need to check all the LED’s to find the problem before reinstalling. I have new light bulb bayonets on the way. This will probably be a full restoration when I’m done.

Do as dothedoo mentioned in post 1204. The original mini post was and 8-32 post with a Tee nut under the PF. The Tee nut should still be there since they have a screw holding them down. It's most likely stripped out. Upsize to the #10 post with a flat washer on top of PF and external tooth lock-washer and nut under pf and it will rock solid. Get this one from Pinball Life: 530-5005-00 It has long threads to reach through PF and enough thread to add washer and locknut.

1 week later
#1227 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

This game and Power Play joined my personal collection last year. I'm collecting games I personally worked on.
Still remember like it was yesterday. I was chatting my my old friend Greg Kmiec the other day. We agreed it was 40 years ago and memories are somewhat fuzzy, but I still for the most part remember just about every wire and where it goes.
We did a panel at Pinball Expo a few years ago where the creation of Xenon was discussed. I was the guy who tossed a second ball on the playfield during a lunch break leading to the last minute conversion to multiball. My 15 minutes or so of Xenon fame.

I love hearing about pinball history. Adding multi ball to xenon was smart. Greg told me a few tidbits about xenon when I was doing my first restore on 2009. And yes it was a xenon. I love this game and I remember how cool it was back in my arcade days of the early 80s.

I lost Greg's email due to a hard drive crash and would love to reconnect with him. Is he on pinside? I will be doing another xenon restore in 2022 with a 2019 cpr pf and will be making a new base cabinet for it. I can't wait to get started.

1 week later
#1232 2 years ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

Question for the group: I have an early model machine (with the Bally Survey envelopes and a "marked up" manual for the game with hand written changes. Certainly early in the production.)
I'm swapping the playfield with a new CPR, but the posts are all Clear. Not the Xenon Concentric Blue posts.
The flyer has all Blue (with the hidden Red one, I know), so is there anyone that has seen Clears on this machine as stock?
It's not a big deal (Clear vs. Blue) but was curious as to why every post is different?

What's the serial number on the cab?

For some reason all xenon with blue posts have faded to a light pink color. At least the ones I have seen. Is this the case with your game or are they actually clear? Maybe someone changed them during the games life who knows.

I have done 2 xenon swaps and installed all new blue posts on each and was happy with results.

#1241 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Yeah, these things faded strangely. I had clear ones, pink ones, light blue ones....changed them all out for new blue ones at some point. I imagine the clears look great too.
Also, there should be a single non transparent red post in there somewhere. It is there on purpose, not a mistake.

Yes he mentioned that in post #1231. If you didn't know this is how Greg Kmiec signed his games since Bally would not let him sign the PF.

#1242 2 years ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

I give. How could royal blue fade to light pink? That's a good one.
The serial number is 1008
[quoted image]

Inferior dye I suppose. They have an odor to them as well. Your PF and cabinet look really nice. Is there any other differences from yours compared to later in the run? Just curious. Can you post pics of the survey and marked up manual?

#1245 2 years ago
Quoted from alyssa:

Does anyone happen to know the sizing on these metal posts (in front of the ball guide wire) ? I cant seem to find an exact substitute.
Wondering if this would work as replacements : https://www.pinballlife.com/1-78-tall-metal-post-with-10-32-threaded-base-15430.html
[quoted image][quoted image]

That will work but you will need to enlarge the hole in pf. I have a bunch of spares if you need some.

#1248 2 years ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

The playfield is easy. I acquired a new CPR from a fellow Pinsider for a PF swap! Thanks for asking about that one.
The game was stored for decades inside a storage facility. This might be why the posts faded. Years of thermal cycling probably did it. Backbox and cabinet look pretty darn good for its age. The original operator had it on route, then pulled it to storage. Pretty much untouched for quite a long time.
The survey is technically the Bally Test Game Report that you fold into an envelope form. My mistake in calling it a survey.
Hand written notes on the separate paper would indicate to me that the manual was just not in final form. Or maybe it is, but there is a lot of setting information here.
Original Warranty card, slingshot mylar, and all the apron cards still there. Pictures are posted.
I have owned a Xenon in the past, so I guess I need to see the original pf if there are any differences. I do know that the middle of the original is blown out like so many fields of that era. I did get an extra used pf because I was going to do a hardtop, but then the CPR came up.
So I will have two extra used playfields in case anyone needs to do their hardtop!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Interesting, thanks for sharing all the photos. I'm on my 3rd Xenon, last one bought as a complete project that I have yet to start after 2 years. My first Xenon from 2009 was my first restore and first PF swap. I learned a ton since then. My second one was like yours cosmetically and was undocumented HUO. Perfect cab and back glasses but the owner never installed the full pf Mylar and left it in the cab rolled up. He never changed the balls or waxed the PF so the PF had serious paint loss. The boards were mint except the MPU since the owner didn't know about battery leakage. It was sent to Twobits for repair at one point. But I threw a CPR in that game and sold about 7 years ago. It had some paperwork but nothing like yours though the "goody bag" was still there with the coinbox too. It's a game I should have never sold but I gotta keep feeding my habit of buying pins!

It was exciting to me when I did the first Xenon, being new to the hobby and getting to exchange emails with the guy that designed this game.

#1255 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Received this also:
[quoted image]

Did you play the record yet? I'm curious as to what is on it...

1 week later
#1266 2 years ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Happy day! CPR Gold Xenon playfield came in the mail. This is a playfield from three years ago that a fellow Pinsider had from a prior restoration. Had a few mechs populated but then the prior owner lost interest I guess. Anyhow, I snagged it for a good price.
Old grossness:[quoted image]
New Hotness:
[quoted image]

Nice. I'll be starting my 3rd xenon swap early this year. Got a 2019 cpr.

#1270 2 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

You're gonna want that pin in near the exit chamber, the new playfield isn't drilled for it though : it slows the ball down so it's less likely to lip-out of the saucer.[quoted image]

Does that spring post actually do anything?

#1272 2 years ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

I was wondering the same thing! I saw that and was confused. I don't see that it does anything?

That was my thought as well.

#1276 2 years ago
Quoted from alyssa:

Wow, I didn't know that! I have game #1033 so I guess that would be game 33.
I now have my Xenon fully playable with the exception of the sound during gameplay. Pressing the red test button on the sounds plus board cycles through the vocals (so the speaker definitely works) and the sound setting is on mode #3.
Sound test from the coin door does not work.. at one point after messing with the sound settings I got one sound when the game boots up, but still no sound in gameplay. Trying to figure out what could be going on using the schematics but I'm stumped!
EDIT: I think it could have to do with one of the adjustment volume pot parts.. one controls volume while the other seems to do almost nothing.

It could be the volume pot. They are open to air so they dirty and oxidize. Try giving it a few full turns in each direction and if you atleast hear some sounds trying to play. GPE has a nice replacement for these that are enclosed to eliminate the problem. Do a voltage test on the test points and compare to pinwiki. There are 3 diodes on the bottom corner of the speech board that are notorious for overheating.

1 week later
#1290 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

This wire broke on the tube shot switch. Does anyone have a clear pic of the switch with the cover off and know the gauge of wire?
[quoted image]

You need this but will have to bend it to make it work. https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/02-2112

#1296 2 years ago
Quoted from alyssa:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/1GE7ZP1qZNe24nQe8
Status on the volume pots! Top one works, sounds come through loud and clear. The lower one seems to control some type of feedback and has no effect on the test sounds.
I noticed a few resistors on my solenoid driver board look swollen and burnt, but I also see the board has had some mods to it. Can anyone confirm these resistors look bad? Wouldn't want to replace the board if it turned out that it was fine and just the board itself looked bad from previous usage/damage.
Lastly...There is a solid yellow wire that had been broken and alligator clipped to connect to Ground, but it seems to have no effect on the game whether it is connected or not.. thoughts? It goes into the upper part of J3 on the solenoid driver board. Not sure if I'm looking at the correct thing here but it might be one of the unused wires. [quoted image][quoted image]

Need a close up pic of the mystery yellow wire.

The other volume pot if for speech level. If you cleaned and turned it a few times and still no speech then there's a board issue w vocalizer. Possibly a bad tms5200 chip.

Are all of the could firing? Run self diagnostic test. Manual explains the process of testing.

#1298 2 years ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

Still trying to resolve my game’s inability to keep track of multiball. All my switches seem to be working and reacting as they’re supposed to. Just repinned my connectors too. Edit: I should note I am running Alltek MPU and SDB.
Also curious why the background sounds drop out after a pop bumper fires. They will resume either on the next ball, or after shooting the tube shot.

Long shot but try doing a memory clear on mpu. Make sure dips are set to xenon.

My game used to fire 2 balls in shooter lane every time I started a game. I disconnected the trough micro and the game played perfectly. Just desolder one wire so you can connect it later if need be.

3 weeks later
#1311 2 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Really? The manual's rubber diagram outline makes it looks like it should be a 2½" - 3" rubber, easily. The outlines of the the other two 1½" rubbers are nowhere near as big.

I picked up a project xenon. The rubbers are so dry rotted that I can't find the size. It has ABC and USA and the number 240 in very small print if that means anything? Mine was routed with the rubber on the right side of the white post but I don't think it makes any difference.

#1313 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Yes! ABC pinball rubber rings are made for the pinball industry.
As one knows, the pinball industry would take a common size part
and tweak it to make it their own.
240 is the diameter of the rubber ring. .240"
Today manufactures make the pinball rubber rings in common
size .250" or 1/4" size.
Which of cores is to large.

Thanks for the info. I figured 240 was a part number but the rubber looks like 2 inch but yet so old it's hard to say. I did 2 xenon pf swaps some years back and don't recall having any issues with the rubber sizes from the manual.

#1316 2 years ago
Quoted from semicolin:

Anyone know who has those bingo kmiec posts in stock? I really want my Xenon to match.

I might have a spare. Will post back tomorrow.

#1329 2 years ago

What resistance is the volume pot you used on the coin door?

Resistance on the potentiometers?

5 volts strong? Low volt displays will draw heavy on the 5v supply.

Everything grounded including boards and speaker? Ac plug ground prong present? Ground braid from cab to head connected?

A couple things to try. Change out line filter. Reverse the 2 prong connector for the speaker.

I had a xenon with an alltek solenoid driver that was sending 18v to the sound board and it caused the sound board not to boot up but I was told the higher voltage was typical. I went back to a bally board and the sound worked much better.

#1331 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Thanks for responding!
The coin door has a 10k ohm pot. I switched it and then went back with the original after the problem was still happening.
I used 1k pots on the board for speech and sounds
As part of the restoration I ran all new ground and verified continuity everywhere the ground is ran, the speakers are grounded as well.
I installed a new line filter and a new power cord and verified that my wall sockets are wired properly and grounded with a meter.
I flipped the 2 prong over but there is no change.
The MPU, SDB, and the Lamp Driver board are alltek.

I think the coin door volume is only 100 ohms IIRC. 1K correct for pots on board. Do you have the old solenoid driver to swap in and see if anything changes? On one of my EBD restores, I had wicked noise with pinscore displays in the game. I grounded the lamp driver board and it went away.

I would ask Wolffpac about it. The noise has to be coming from somewhere.

#1332 2 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I think the coin door volume is only 100 ohms IIRC. 1K correct for pots on board. Do you have the old solenoid driver to swap in and see if anything changes? On one of my EBD restores, I had wicked noise with pinscore displays in the game. I grounded the lamp driver board and it went away.
I would ask Wolffpac about it. The noise has to be coming from somewhere.

Might want to try and pull the display connectors one by one and listen for changes?

#1336 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I have the original pot back in that was in the game before I had the issues and it still requires to be turned all the way up. And I still have the noise from the display.
Not sure of the resistance on the original but that’s what’s in there now.
Someone else suggested to pop the high voltage fuse out since the high voltage isn’t being used. Game plays fine and everything works without it. Still low sound and loud display noise.

Can/did you check the amp output transistor? Check the speaker/s?

#1341 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I replaced the TDA2002 yesterday
Put the original light board in with the original SDB. Obviously the lights are flickering but the distorted display sound is the same.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Grounded TP2 for good measure but no changes. [quoted image]

How about the LM3900? Since you went back to oem boards and problem persists there must be an issue with the sound board/Vocalizer board. Double check all the work you have done so far. You may have installed a cap or something reversed. Maybe the volume pot was bad all along. A connector off by a pin, could be anything. Unknown issue with sound board itself. I assume you went over all the test points? Does noise get louder as the boards warm up?

#1342 2 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

How about the LM3900? Since you went back to oem boards and problem persists there must be an issue with the sound board/Vocalizer board. Double check all the work you have done so far. You may have installed a cap or something reversed. Maybe the volume pot was bad all along. A connector off by a pin, could be anything. Unknown issue with sound board itself. I assume you went over all the test points? Does noise get louder as the boards warm up?

Dumb question but if you removed or replaced the speaker/s did you make sure they are wired correctly?

#1366 2 years ago

This is a project game that I never powered up but the soldering looks original. Orange to pos and white to neg on both speakers

16378314715782765463822917226697 (resized).jpg16378314715782765463822917226697 (resized).jpg
#1379 2 years ago
Quoted from Sonic:

Kderrick mrm_4 play_pinball Zablon
Yes we can - we can either use our universal ramp MRS right where the current switch is - IF the ramp is stainless right there (should be - need confirmation) OR we could put a tiny MRS on the tube that would fit the curve....it'd be rather simple....and no more hang ups!
matt
M&M Creations
"we don't touch your balls..."

I'm in if or when you make these.

#1395 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Yep that helps!
I’m thinking right above the plate on the back side.
[quoted image]

Will that work there since it will be above the ball when it passes through? You also don't want to mess up the switch cover as these are hard to find in nice condition.

4 weeks later
#1411 2 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Meaning playing ball three, end of game.

I would check the left saucer switch with ball string in the hole in self test mode. All targets reset and other ball removed from pf.

I had a xenon a while back that was sending 2 balls to the shooter lane. I desoldered the micro switch at the trough and that fixed the issue. I'm not sure what the switch actually does anyway.

#1414 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

I started having that 2 ball issue surface on my resto. I remembered someone saying to just remove that switch.
So I did and the game plays exactly how you want it to without it, so I’m on board with this now. Not one mishap since it’s been removed.

Yeah, that's why I can't figure out what is does when the game plays fine w/o it! Weird.

#1415 2 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Man I'll give it a shot, but it's weird.
This machine has been rock solid for years, the last 7 months in an arcade. I opened her up to change out EOS switches and this started when I closed up.

Mine didn't have the 2 ball issue until after I swapped the PF. It could be that the adjustment on this micro is very touchy and has to be in sync with the other trough switches? IDK. I think it's there to help the MPU keep track of the balls, or so I read on old threads. But regardless, my game played fine w/o it.

#1417 2 years ago
Quoted from chas10e:

The switch right before the left saucer correct ? doesn't that eject a ball from that saucer if there is one there? also doesn't is reset the fast background music to a slower pace ? I don't have my machine close by to tell.
I've been told to snip a capacitor leg at the switch (until you can replace it ?)

No I was referring to the micro switch under the apron.

As far as the capacitor, a shorted cap acts as a closed switch that's why it was recommended to snip one side to see if there's any change. Caps fail due to age and these are over 40 years old by now if originals are still in the game. I replace all of them when I do a pf swap.

#1420 2 years ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

Xenon must detect 2 balls in order to start a game. When you press the start button it looks for a ball in the outhole and one in the trough. If you disconnect the trough switch the game should not start. It also needs to see both switches closed in order to know multiball is over. When a ball drains and there is no ball in the trough it kicks the ball from the outhole to the hold position in the trough. When the second ball drains to the outhole the game knows multiball is over and will advance to the next turn. I do not see how disconnecting the trough microswitch allows the game to start and play correctly.

Those have switches under the pf. I was referring to the micro switch above pf.

3 weeks later
#1438 2 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

A little refurbishment done on this snowy day. Got some touchup work done on the head and finally mounted back on the cabinet. The neck had been smoothed over with Quikwood and fiberglass resin and repainted last year. Also had dunked the hinges, latches, and other metal head pieces in Evaporust and hit them with the buffer so they were ready to reinstall. Then the backglass frames, which I had filled in all the chips with Quikwood and repainted back in September, back on the head. Just a couple minor areas left to retouch on the original pf before I can repopulate. I love getting to this stage of the refurb where it's so close to being finished, it gets me motivated again.
Funny story, though really annoying at the time: I had repainted a Space Invaders backglass frame like this several years ago with Rustoleum semigloss black, and it came out perfect. When it came time to do Xenon's, I waited for the perfect day - low humidity, 75 degress, perfect weather. I sprayed and was very happy with the two coats of coverage. Next day I checked on it and the paint was still tacky, and too glossy. Obviously Rustoleum spray wouldn't be cured in a day but it's supposed to be dry enough to the touch to handle. I had about half left of the same can I had used on Space Invaders, so I hit it with a third coat of that. Nope, same problem. No idea why, can was fully shaken, ideal temp and humidity. I hung the frame in my attic on a couple of coat hangers and let it cure for three months. It's hard as a rock now, and less glossy, but I can't figure what might have happened. Looks really good now though.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looking sweet!

I have had mixed results with rustoleum. It may depend on the primer, how the paint was stored or of the paint was old. I have rustoleum hammer paints that are like 5 years old. Although stored at room temps 65 or warmer, when I used the hammer black on a WMS bezel it came out dark grey. I went over that with semi black and it finally looked black when done.

I have a Xenon in cue to restore. I'm making a new base cabinet. I found a rusto blue that looks like a close match to the cab blue, it's their 2X Oasis blue satin. I'm reluctant to using it as a stencil color because I have had peeling issues in the past.

2 weeks later
#1442 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

I’m ready to take the next step and do a PF swap with this beautiful CPR gold I got from the awesome alienpoker. I’ve shopped 3 machines successfully in the last 2 years but this will be my biggest undertaking. I’m also painting the cab. Wish me luck!
[quoted image]

Xenon was my first swap and repaint. In fact I swapped 2 xenons. Before you touch anything, take pics and when you think you took enough take a thousand more.

I buy multi packs of cheap SD cards and dedicate each one to a particular machine and then keep them for future reference and Before and after pics.

#1444 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Thanks, will do. I’ve poured over the PF swap threads several times and know I’ll make some mistakes but I’ll enjoy the learning experience.

Yes we learn by mistakes but the ultimate mistake would be running a screw or drill bit through the top side. Take every precaution to make sure that doesn't happen. I have done 11 swaps so hit me up if you have any questions.

#1447 2 years ago
Quoted from packie1:

Any help on what goes here? More interested in posts and hardware.
Mike
[quoted image]

Do you have the ramp and tube?

#1448 2 years ago
Quoted from packie1:

Any help on what goes here? More interested in posts and hardware.
Mike
[quoted image]

Quoted from packie1:

Any help on what goes here? More interested in posts and hardware.
Mike
[quoted image]

Going by my game which is due for a restore and been sitting for years, the hole by the rebound switch gets a 2 1/16 grey spacer and a 2 11/16 #6 screw. This is for the switch cover mount. The lower hole get a 1.25 inch grey spacer and I guess a 1.75 to a 2 inch #6 screw and this is for the upper ramp mounting L bracket.

1 week later
#1459 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

Finishing up my lighting choices before the big tear down. I like these spot lights for the upper PF. I need some suggestions to light up the apron/flipper/sling area.
[quoted image]

Comet or Titan has a apron led strip that you can use to light up under the flippers. Many colors to choose from. Lit posts for the sling area?

2 weeks later
#1465 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

My only complaint, is the fact they never fixed the missing art work to the
right drain special red arrow. I guess they never will.

What is missing? I have the 2019 run but never really compared it to the original.

#1467 2 years ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

See my post #109.

Ok, I thought Vec-tor was talking about the red feature lamp arrow. My old PF doesn't have these arrows, so it must be another Bally anomaly. Serial number 10148.

#1469 2 years ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

That PF was a NOS I bought in Germany had shipped here and clearcoated in 2004. I think Bally initially was going to make those arrows inserts because the slingshots had only one hole for a lamp. I drilled the PF and added the extra sling lamps

But what purpose would that have served? I don't see them in your pic post #109 but my upper sling switches have GI lamps tucked behind them.

#1474 2 years ago
Quoted from tomdrum:

I had messages with Kruzman about different PF's and he has seen 4 versions. Figure that Bally was experimenting while developing it and different designs were produced. I have had 5 Xenon PF's, 3 games and my NOS PF was the only arrow outlane I've seen.

This is my 3rd Xenon and I don't remember seeing the arrows on any of them. I should go back and review some pics. CPR usually relies on a donor pf for artwork, so whatever they get, we get. I don't have an issue with that since it's taken from an actually pf. When playing pinball, you're watching the ball, not the art so it's sort of trivial to me, JMHO. On the other hand, I like when they remake some of the prototype things like the boobs on Xenon or the sexy plastics for Star Trek.

1 week later
#1481 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

I don't think this is a Xenon part. I don't even think it is a pinball part.

It's strange that it's listed as a Bally pinball part. A mod perhaps? A very expensive one at that!

#1482 1 year ago

Does anyone have red score displays in their Xenon? Pics? The glasses in this game are stunning but the smoke mirror blocks some of the light from the displays. I was thinking the red would have more punch and also pick up the red in the back glass.

#1488 1 year ago

Now that I saw the red in the game thanks to @play_pinball, I like it! Blue isn't a bad choice either but I think there's enough blue on this game as it stands. It's nice to have these options now.

#1491 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Anyone powdercoat their legs/side rails/lockdown bar/coin door?
I’m doing a restoration and am trying to decide between Black powder coat (maybe with a mild silver flake??) vs polishing/regraining. I usually go with the original look but wondering about getting a little more artistic???
Thoughts?

I prefer chrome personally. The Bally coin door looks fantastic with a nice chrome plate. If doing powder on the door, you have be careful not to go too thick as there's isn't much clearance between the door skin and trim. With PC, I like to pick on of the cab stencil colors. I did a Soy hunter last year by matching the blue in the cab decals. I matched the T molding to the PC color.

P7290047 (resized).JPGP7290047 (resized).JPGP7290051 (resized).JPGP7290051 (resized).JPGP7290053 (resized).JPGP7290053 (resized).JPG
#1492 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I prefer chrome personally. The Bally coin door looks fantastic with a nice chrome plate. If doing powder on the door, you have be careful not to go too thick as there's isn't much clearance between the door skin and trim. With PC, I like to pick on of the cab stencil colors. I did a Soy hunter last year by matching the blue in the cab decals. I matched the T molding to the PC color.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

20210730_111135 (resized).jpg20210730_111135 (resized).jpg
#1495 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Nice job on the Spy Hunter. I was looking around for a source for chrome side rails and the sites I was finding from a few years ago are now defunct.
I do think a black on Xenon would look good, maybe match the red as well but I’d like to keep it understated on this one.

I sent rails out for chrome. Never saw any for sale off the shelf.

#1498 1 year ago

From Jeff Z:

I have not been able to determine the significance or meaning of the word (or acronym?) "MOTA" except that it's "atom" spelled backwards. The Exit Chamber also serves as the ball lock as noted above.

#1501 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

I thought stainless did not take chrome well? Am I wrong here?

I'm not sure about that. It may depend on the grade of the stainless. I had quite a few pin parts chromed with no problems. Rails, lock down bars, stern coin drop bezels and Bally coin doors to name a few.

#1502 1 year ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I could have sworn I read the answer somewhere once, but I just checked the playfield.... the plastics.... the backglass.... the apron cards.... and the flyer.... and.... nothing. Must have been imagining it.
Couple of questions/observations:
Red and blue lamp sleeves: I have a number of red lamp sleeves under the rear plastics, drops, and elsewhere that were original to the game. Flyer shows those and one blue sleeve under a plastic at the tail end of the tube. They kinda wash out the colors in the plastics though, especially the two rear ones. Can't decide whether to keep or eliminate them, especially since Xenon is a pretty dark game.
The plastic around the right pop bumper, in the "elbow" of the metal ramp: should the back of this be held up by two white spools, or two taller gray plastic standoffs, thus raising the rear of the plastic? I see both used, maybe they're both correct depending on production date. Mine had the tall gray standoffs but I'm switching them to spools b/c I like having the plastic flat. What do your games have?

I have to look at my game and post what I find about the plastic.

Maybe you're thinking of the kinetic molecular thing derived from the letters of the designer Greg Kmiec's last name? Since Bally wouldn't let him sign his name on the pf he started hiding the signature red post and snuck this there as well.

#1506 1 year ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Stainless sands to mirror finish. All weekend at Pinbrew a lot of people commented on my “chromed” hardware and I had to keep pointing out its sanded.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thruster-i-just-met-her-xenon-restoration-/page/5#post-6173142

I'm aware of this but it takes allot of effort, time and the right tools to do this. I get too impatient even trying it.

#1507 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I'm aware of this but it takes allot of effort, time and the right tools to do this. I get too impatient even trying it.

unless, I'm just not doing it correctly?

#1514 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

I'm trying to find replacement screws for the really long ones that are on this machine. Looks like #6 pan head sheet metal screw and one is 2 1/4", the other is 2 3/4". I've looked at the big box stores, online and at Fastenal online. Can't find them. Thinking of driving to Fastenal locally with the screws in hand but it’s 40 minutes both ways. I guess I could drill through and convert to a machine screw/stop nut?
Ideas?

They're #6 round head screws. You can use a panhead as well but it won't look original. I searched for the longer one and ended getting a metric screw. I think M4 to match. 70 mm long.

#1520 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Tomorrow I will finish stripping the back of the PF. The white rollover button housings, do they just tap out? Any tips for removal?

Small E clip holding them in. Try not to chew up the ends of the roll over buttons. They damage easily.

#1522 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Mission accomplished! Got all four out without damage! Thanks a ton!

I should have asked this before, are you installing a hardtop on this game? If so, Shapeways has these roll over buttons that are a tad longer since the HT adds a little height to the PF.

#1531 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Happy to say I got my flipper mechs all cleaned, rebuilt and converted to rotary style today. Hopefully the other mechs and the main harness get moved over to the new playfield tomorrow!
[quoted image]

I'm not 100% sure on the crank style flippers, but on the linear style the coils face the opposite direction than your pic. Somebody please chime in if I'm wrong. Also you are missing the rubber bushings(bands) on the cranks where they touch the EOS blades.

1 week later
#1562 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

I also re-blued the spring leafs on the drop switches. First time doing this as well.
Before:
[quoted image]
After:
[quoted image]

Nice work. I run the memory coil plungers in the tumbler until shiny. Springs too.

#1564 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Looks like I’m heading down the home stretch in this playfield swap and restore. Any ideas on how to go about plugging everything in to re-power things on?

I start with just j1 plugged in on rectifier board to test GI lamps. A fuse will pop right away if there's a short. Turn off power and return the rest of the connectors where they go. Fire up game with back box open. Listen for any locked coils, watch led on mpu and smell for anything burning. Once all clear run through all the self tests. Most likely will need to adjust some switches.

#1570 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Just for my education, what's the function of the diode here?

It's part of the switch matrix. Pay attention to the band on the diode. Wire it like it was on old switch. You only need the solder lug on one sling switch per side.

2 weeks later
#1638 1 year ago
Quoted from dmacy:

The playfield I’m swapping has a missing upper rollover button. I ordered a new button but has anyone found a new bushing/parts list?[quoted image]

I have never seen it for sale anywhere. I'll look through my extra xenon parts to see if I have a spare but no promises.

#1639 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Well, looks like it's not just the connector. I had a 0.100 connector around and put a new pin on the orange wire, removed and cleaned all other pins and replaced them, still nothing from the light strip.
From the schematic it looks like this is controlled from J1 on the MPU board? I'm not the best at schematics though.

See if the strip lights up in lamp test. I'm pretty sure the strip works the same as the other switched lamps. Verify 6.3v and the connector. I'll look at my schematics to see what you need to check for.

1 week later
#1662 1 year ago
Quoted from caseydanger:

Hey fellow Xenon-lovers! A while ago, play_pinball asked me to work up something to replace the Bally coin-door decal on Xenon. A century later I finally drew up something and ordered a few samples from Sticker Mule on their "holographic" stock (pics attached). I wanted to gauge interest on here to see if I should get a larger quantity printed.
I did my best to design them in a way that they integrated with the cabinet, but also work well as a standalone sticker. Thoughts?
[quoted image][quoted image]

I want one!

#1665 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Here’s a few pics of the light board in question:[quoted image][quoted image]

Try disconnecting the jumper from the alltek lamp driver and see if the strip works. This is the only after market lamp strip I have seen with resistors.

#1682 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Picked up this trippy shooter rod from PinFest too.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Damn I missed those!

#1684 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I think Matt made those coin door inserts himself. I told him I want a set.
The shooter rod I got from Bill at Super Skill Shot.
https://superskillshot.com/
Good guy, and 100% customer satisfaction. He will make sure you’re happy with it. I also got one for the GTB Spider-Man I’m restoring, and an eyeball one for my HH or Class of 1812. Haven’t decided which one I’ll throw that on yet.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

1 month later
#1689 1 year ago
Quoted from mkdud:

How common is this "metal shield" on the upper left plastic? See pic 1 below, Thanks jibmums for the picture.[quoted image]
I don't recall this shield ever being on my Xenon. How important is this shield? Were they on all Xenons?
I don't recall ever having trapped ball issues on my Xenon form this shield not being there. See pic 2. [quoted image]
Does anybody know where I might be able to buy one of these shields? Please help if you can. Thanks, mk

I have had 3 Xenons and they all had it. Buying it? Well that will be difficult unless somebody offers up a spare. If the ball never gets stuck up there, I wouldn't worry about it.

4 weeks later
#1705 1 year ago

You're on the right track but you are looking for group #1(first 2 lamps) if it's the 2 lamps closest to the entrance. See page W-1207-4 in manual. If looking at the tube lamp as it is installed in the game, header pin connector at the right, the left pin feeds the first 2 lamps on the right. That's pin 1. I know it sounds backwards but if you flipped the tube lamp over you can see the trace going from pin 1 to the 1st lamp on the right. Corresponding wire color is #34, yellow/green. Lamp driver J216=Q16.

#1716 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

Thanks for this Lovef2k: What is Q16 in J216=Q16?

Q16 is the transistor that controls the lamps. They either short or get stuck open or just burn out. As big AL mentioned, you may also have a connection issue between the lamp strip to the lamp driver board. There are a few connectors involved. Put game in lamp test mode. 1st press of the red button in coin door. While the lamps are flashing, wiggle or flex the connectors to see if the lamps light up. If they do, you need to find the cause of the break. Of not, then the scr likely failed.

#1731 1 year ago
Quoted from mkdud:

Thanks so much! It's a good thing you clarified this. I'll get this part ordered and make sure I put it in the correct place. I really appreciate the help! -mk

Is this a 2019 CPR run? That's what I have but didn't start the swap yet. That dimple is in the same location as yours. I did two swaps on the 09 run and I don't even remember that pin. I can't see why it's needed there. Centrifugal force should keep the ball up against the upper rail anyway.

#1733 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

Thanks vec-tor, just to be 100%, do I take the connector out of J1-25 to test do I just connect my wire to the connector?
Thanks for taking the time. It is super appreciated!

Please reread post #1705. You are looking for pin 16 on lamp driver J2. #1 tube lights, follow the trace on schematic to Q16.

Check continuity between the connector of tube lamp pin 1(yellow wire with green hash marks) to J2 connector at lamp dirver pin 16, same color wire. If good, inspect the header pins on lamp strip and J2 lamp driver. If all good, Q16 mostly like failed. Or you have a bad lamp on the lamp strip.

#1756 1 year ago
Quoted from GKW:

I found the diode soldered between two sets of wires, grounded to the playfield. I clipped one end and checked it with a multimeter. It registered .5, so I think that it is good. What should I check next? Just so you know, all of the boards in this machine are all new Alltek boards and a Rottendog TR board, if that makes any difference. The last time that I actually played a game on this machine, about 6 years ago, I remember having a problem with the trough spitting out two balls at once. That's where I left it, until now.

My second xenon did the same double firing of the out hole kicker. I desoldered one wire from the micro switch at the trough and the problem went away. I know that switch is there for a reason but my game worked fine wo it. Multi ball was working as it should.

1 week later
#1799 1 year ago
Quoted from Ceckitti:

So the Xenon I just brought home this week doesn't play the background sounds during play. Everything else is there as far as switch hits, pop bumpers and all the speech (male and female). But now background music.
Before I start diving in, is this a setting with the game? or is there something wrong?
Also... game has an Altek cpu board if that helps.

It may be the coin door setting. It explains it in the manual. Keep pressing red self diagnostic button until the match score display shows 18? If I remember correctly. Might be 17. Anyway, press the start button until you see 03 in the display for maximum sounds. The Alltek will keep this setting. If you recently changed the mpu, it goes back to default.

#1800 1 year ago
Quoted from Ceckitti:

So the Xenon I just brought home this week doesn't play the background sounds during play. Everything else is there as far as switch hits, pop bumpers and all the speech (male and female). But now background music.
Before I start diving in, is this a setting with the game? or is there something wrong?
Also... game has an Altek cpu board if that helps.

Another thing to check is the volume pot on the sounds plus board. They are notorious for failing from age, dirt and/or oxidation. Give it a few turns and see if you get anything.

1 week later
#1823 1 year ago

Since everyone is showing off lol, for those that don't know, there was a promo poster made for xenon when released. It's much bigger than the flyer. Found on ebay some years back and framed it. I think some copies were printed recently so beware.

20210314_170007 (resized).jpg20210314_170007 (resized).jpg
#1826 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

That is super sweet. If you’re not gonna hang it up I’ll be happy to throw it up in my game room.

Haha it's been hung since the photo.

#1829 1 year ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Got a few things Xenon other than the game. I feel like I have more hiding somewhere…[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Quoted from Shenanigander:

Hey xenon owners wondering if you can chime in here.
Sometimes when there is a ball locked in the saucer and I tilt the machine the ball in the saucer will kick out and then both balls will drain and sometimes both end up in the shooter lane.
It only seems to happen when I wiggle the machine to tilt it. If I just manually activate the tilt Bob then it does not kick the ball out of the saucer.
I thought maybe the locked ball was rocking back and forth during a tilt and triggering the saucer switch multiple times but I adjusted that switch so it stays closed when there is a ball locked in there even if you are wiggling the machine.
I checked switch test and everything appears to be working as it should.
There is a new altek CPU installed.
I put the machine in switch test and wiggled the machine and banged the playfield but no switch activates.
The tilt Bob switch and the saucer switch are not in the same row or column in the switch Matrix.
The tilt switch under the play field is not adjusted too close together and it works fine as well.
From your experience is it normal for the locked ball to kick out during a tilt? I feel like it is not normal.
Can't seem to figure this one out though. Any other suggestions?

When it tilts is it ending the game or just current ball? Are you manually tilting the game or is it random? I would clip the capacitor at the tilt mech in the cab. It isn't really neccessary unless using the game for tournament play. It could be shorting out and causing a switch closure. As far as the side eject kicking after tilt it may be a punishment thing or simulating end of game?

Both balls ending up in shooter lane is still a mystery to me. I disconnected one wire from the micro and the issue never happened again and the game fine otherwise.

1 week later
#1840 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Ordered this in China (AliExpress) You hardly can recognize the hands because of Xenons face. But, it's funny, anyhow.
[quoted image]

What is it?

#1843 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

If you look very close, you can see the hands of the clock.

Haha helps when you blow up the pic

#1848 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

I read the schematics and the connector associated with this group 1 is the yellow/green one. I haven't yet had the chance to repin it but, somehow, I am not confident this will be the solution as I have wiggled it already. (I'm trying, at least!!!)
That's why if you have any other suggestions, I'd love to hear them!
Thanks!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Did you rule out the lamp strip? Bad trace, bad bulbs? I would try jumping between pin 1 and pin 3 to see the group 1 lamps light. And vice versa. In lamp test mode I would think that jumping pin 1 to ground should light the lamps. The switched lamps always have power via the bus line. The lamp driver switches the lamps on via the ground side. Do not ground pin 5 to ground, this is the bus line. On the lamp strip check continuity between pin 5 to traces that feed group 1 lamps. Also check between pin to the other side of the lamps. You can also unplug the strip and test it with a 9v battery. Test leads with alligator clips would be handy for this. One side of battery to pin 5 and one side to the rest of the pins one at a time.

1 week later
#1854 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Can anyone help me out here? I’m reassembling my cabinet after a repaint and I can’t for the life of me figure out where these 4 metal bushings came from! They were in my cabinet hardware baggie but could conceivably have come from the backbox and got mixed up. Any ideas??
[quoted image]

Lock down receiver. There should also be 4 thick flat washers and 4 thin flat washers. 4 8-32 by 5/8 inch machine screws and lock nuts.

#1857 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Two questions:
I built and installed Wolffpacc tech LED scoring displays. Fantastic product BTW! Anyhow I’m getting a loud hum after plugging in the displays. It wasn’t there prior to plugging them in. Grounding issue??
Second, some of the vocalizations are a little garbled, like the “Try” in “Try Xenon”. It sounds almost like the speaker is overloaded but the sound doesn’t change with volume. The speakers are new. The main sound board has been recapped, I haven’t done anything to the vocalizer board though. Thoughts?

Stupid question, did you connect the ground strap from cab to head? Transformer grounded properly? The transformer grounds between the metal mounting plate and the cab ground braid. The humming can be difficult to trace. I had this with an EBD, grounding the lamp driver board helped. Does the sound change when the scores switch from current to HSTD scores in attract mode?

Adding the LED score displays can rob too much of the 5V supply. You need to make sure all connectors involved have a solid connection.

Garbled speech, did you swap out the sound and speech pots with the re-cap? Turn the speech pot from low to high a few times and see if it improves. Clean with tuner spray if you have some. Try re-seating the 40 pin interconnect ribbon. Swap out speech pot if no improvement. Newer design has an enclosed case to keep dirt out. GPE has them. If that doesn't work, re-cap Vocalizer.

#1861 1 year ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

That hum is there to stay with the Wolff pac displays. I tried every single recommendation on pinside and did a few alternative grounding mods and flooded this thread with questions and still the whole time the game is on - WHHHHOMMMMM EEEEEEEE WHHHHOOMMMMMMMM EEEEEEEEEE WHHHHHOMMMMMM EEEEEEE every time the game goes back and forth between last score and high score

Which game?

#1865 1 year ago
Quoted from Ceckitti:

That is good to know. I was on the fence on getting these displays.
How loud/annoying is the hum?

Likewise. I was going to get them for ebd, but now, eh!

I bought a set of Lisy displays from a fellow Pinsider for my current xe resto that I'm miles from installing, so I can't report a review for now.

#1867 1 year ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

The displays are awesome but for some reason they cause a hum in my xenon that is basically sound torture. Ive pretty much rebuilt the entire sound board and speech board, tried a couple things with grounding that barely helped. Theres a ground loop or something going on that I cant isolate.
I have the Wolff Pacs in my Firepower also and no issues on that game at all. If anyone figures out how to get rid of the hum they should be given a Nobel prize.
If I leave Xenon on in my basement game room, my wife can be sitting on our couch in the upstairs living room and say "You left Xenon on...."

I'm grasping here but have you thought about the line filter? Your game is picking up noise somehow. Perhaps in the transformer? If you have another bally with the cab mounted xformer it wouldn't be too much work to swap temporarily. Is the supply voltage high coming into the sound board? I had an early Alltek solenoid driver in a xe a while ago that had really high voltage to the sound board and it caused issues.

#1877 1 year ago
Quoted from A1k71:

I'm missing one of the white plastic bands that hold the tube in place. I'm missing the one close to the ramp.
Do you know what part is it and
where I can find one of those??
[quoted image][quoted image]

Sending a PM

#1880 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Here’s a dumb question, what keeps the metal arch at the top under the correct tension? Is there a screw that goes through the wood rail and holds it? Mine isn’t pushing back against the posts correctly when installed.

There are grooves under the post caps that grip the arch. You have to push and hold the arch rail against the posts as you tighten the tops down.

#1881 1 year ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Same problem as mine. Is it a CPR playfield? I believe the mech is not in the correct position.

I swapped 2 cpr xenon and didn't have that problem on either. Try a stronger coil?

#1893 1 year ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

I am back in the club. I have been looking far and wide for this girl and settled on this example to restore. This one comes with the uber-rare metal vacuum hose tube shot mod already installed. How lucky can a guy get ? [quoted image][quoted image]

Welcome back. Other than the vacuum tube she looks complete.

3 weeks later
#1922 1 year ago
Quoted from Trainmonger:

Hello, i would like to become a member of this forum, i do own 2 xenon pins, as well as eight others, although i haven't touched them in aout 10 years, they were both undergoing restorations, i have a new gold edition repop playfield for one of them, i just haven't gotten around to it, but now that i am a pinside member, i will probably get going on them again and i will probably be using this forum for tips, there seems to be a ton more information from when i got back into the hobby

Welcome back! There are great people here with tons knowledge.

1 week later
#1936 1 year ago
Quoted from Quench:

An error in the switch matrix caused by a shorted diode. It could be an actual faulty diode or a switch stack someones pulled apart and incorrectly put back together such that the leafs the diode is connected to are touching/shorted or someone incorrectly wiring a switch. It can also happen by a switch that's making contact with a lamp either directly or third party via an assembly.
soren made a nice video explaining how the switch matrix works and what happens when there's a shorted diode. The video is based on a WPC system but the same applies.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/100-challenge-help-me-fix-my-taf#post-5533732
The comments you quoted from vec-tor are related to phantom pop bumper activations that's an inherent 'feature' with old Ballys/Sterns. It's a totally separate issue to your random slam tilts.

What I find strange is that most of the games I had with phantom coil fires is that they didn't do it before swaps with the original parts, but after doing swaps and replacing all diodes, caps and switches, did the phantom hits start happening. My thought is that it could be cheaply made parts?

#1948 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

I took the suggestion from a few of you and repainted the BG frame and polished the metal up. Looks much better.
Of course, as soon as I took it off I noticed there were chunks out of it. Time to break out the fiberglass patch and sand.
And what the hell…while you have it apart you might as well paint and clear some metal, right?

Sometimes the OCD we have in this hobby can be a bitch.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Love that dual purpose clothing rack

#1951 1 year ago
Quoted from Colsond3:

Hey, for $22, it’s a great investment. Plenty of room, and you can spray all sides without having to flip what you’re painting over, etc. Bent some wire hanger “standoffs” for stability. Just contort them into existing screw holes. Works like a charm.
And it’s sturdy enough to hold some significant weight. I even hung every part from a large patio table I refurbed last summer, and sprayed it in one shot.
[quoted image]
[quoted image][quoted image]

Great for doing pin legs as well.

1 month later
#1961 1 year ago
Quoted from GKW:

Yes, these were grounded to the braid, not the ground, per directions provided with the board.

Yes, I suspected bad bulbs to begin with, so I checked them out with the multi-meter.

All pins were re-crimped before I began this new adventure and they are still performing as they should.
I know that it sounds very improbable, but due to the fact that the old lamp driver board works (mostly) and both of the new Alltek boards kept the machine from booting, I must have two bad Alltek boards.

The erroneous orange wire in the back box isn't used. I have had 4 xenon and all of them had this wire. Mystery for sure.

Something to think about, shorted lamp socket? I would buzz each suspect socket with bulbs removed. It could be a stray piece of metal or the insulation breaking down in the socket.

Locked on feature lamps could be a result of a short under the pf and even in the coin door wiring. I have seen weird things happen with feature lamps when the switch Matrix gets any contact with the lamps. On one of my f2k restores, I had the 2 out lane special lamps locked on and found a short on the coin door that I had just reassembled. To rule out coin door, unplug it and start the game, iirc it should still boot or just unplug after booting.

#1963 1 year ago
Quoted from GKW:

Update:
-repaired old, original lamp driver board (replaced 10 corroded SCRs) and all of the controlled lighting now works properly (no more locked-on lamps).
-replaced 8 sockets on lamp door in back box. This is the area where I narrowed down where the short was coming from, that caused the GI lighting to short.
Now, I am not so sure, because after I installed new lamp sockets, I am still getting a short with those same sockets and the GI lighting fails. To make
matters worse, as I was trying to narrow down which socket(s) was causing the failure, the entire GI went out, without popping the 20 amp fuse. Now, every
GI light is dead and I am back to my starting point, only worse now.
The coin door was the first place that I checked for problems associated with the GI failure and nothing there is causing it. I suspected this area first, because I have the lighted flipper button mod installed. Everything was working fine, with the exception of the locked-on playfield lights, until I installed the Alltek LDB.
I found a thread on the internet, discussing Alltek boards and how they are very stringet in power distribution. The article was focused on the Alltek
Solenoid Driver Board, but could this be my problem as well? I am running Alltek MPU and SDB, but it is only when I started running the Alltek LDB that I started having issues with game resetting. Now that I have the original LDB installed and GI lighting is dead, do I need to look at the Alltek SDB as a possible suspect? Could it be the Transformer Rectifier Board, even though all voltages check good? I have no idea what is causing the short, as I have ruled out most possibilities. I have traced every bit of wiring associated with the failed lighting and I found nothing: no stray globs of solder, no bare wire touching metal, and no structures in close proximity, which would cause a short. If I keep on replacing things, I might as well make a new, complete machine! I don't have any spare boards, other than what I bought for Xenon and my project Centaur. I have been swapping Alltek boards (MPU and LDB) from Centaur to Xenon, but I keep getting the same results. I will probably end up buying the Weebly boards (MPU, SDB, LDB), to see if those make any difference, since I don't have any OEM stuff.

You must be pulling your hair out at this point!

I'm thinking you have a blown bridge rectifier now since you lost all GI.

I have been using Alltek boards on my restores for more than 10 years and I never had an issue like this, well except for one on a Xenon with an older revision of their SDB board. It was sending higher than normal voltage to the sounds plus board and caused a no sound issue. Other than that, no problems. I have also used Weebly MPU's with no issues. Both brands have excellent CS support so maybe contact Alltek with your problem.

Perhaps post some photos of the suspected GI areas of the lamp insert panel so we can look and compare.

The rectifier board should be your next thing to look at, -54 board. You have 2 GI fuses, 1 for pf and cab, and 1 for the backbox. The fuse clips for these should be replaced with heavy duty, high current upgraded clips as they tarnish from excess heat over time. Run a voltage test of all the test points with all of the right side connectors removed, this will be a "no load" test. Be careful where you touch as there is high voltage there for the displays. If the traces under the board look dark, possibly burnt, then I would replace it with a Weebly. He has a DIY kit for a good price. But you still need to find the short in the backbox in the mean time.

#1964 1 year ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

You must be pulling your hair out at this point!
I'm thinking you have a blown bridge rectifier now since you lost all GI.
I have been using Alltek boards on my restores for more than 10 years and I never had an issue like this, well except for one on a Xenon with an older revision of their SDB board. It was sending higher than normal voltage to the sounds plus board and caused a no sound issue. Other than that, no problems. I have also used Weebly MPU's with no issues. Both brands have excellent CS support so maybe contact Alltek with your problem.
Perhaps post some photos of the suspected GI areas of the lamp insert panel so we can look and compare.
The rectifier board should be your next thing to look at, -54 board. You have 2 GI fuses, 1 for pf and cab, and 1 for the backbox. The fuse clips for these should be replaced with heavy duty, high current upgraded clips as they tarnish from excess heat over time. Run a voltage test of all the test points with all of the right side connectors removed, this will be a "no load" test. Be careful where you touch as there is high voltage there for the displays. If the traces under the board look dark, possibly burnt, then I would replace it with a Weebly. He has a DIY kit for a good price. But you still need to find the short in the backbox in the mean time.

Correction, GI does not run from a bridge rectifier, it's straight from the transformer. So either the transformer is bad, you have a failed trace on the board or a bad connector.

#1966 1 year ago
Quoted from GKW:

Update: Bad fuse clip on F5 was causing the GI problem. It took a while, but I was able to ascertain that one of the fuse holder clips was nearly gone, even though it was supposedly making good contact with the fuse. At some point, I removed one or all of the bad actors (fuse clips, sockets and bulbs), so now just about everything is working as it should.
Found more corrosion on original lamp driver board, so I will be replacing a whole bunch of SCRs in the future. But for now, I am running the Alltek lamp driver board (LDB).
I need to make a correction. I stated that I was running the Alltek solenoid driver board (SDB), but in fact, it was a Rottendog. This was somehow causing my game to not boot up, but after swapping to an Alltek SDB, I could get the game to "work."
After making the final swap, everything powered up and everything is lit, without blowing any fuses. Now, I am faced with two final issues.
First, I can't get the game to go beyond lamp test, while in test mode. Any attempt to go further into the test causes the game to reboot. This is something to do with the Alltek LDB, since this only happens with this board installed; didn't happen when I had the original board installed.
Second, in the course of all the troubleshooting, I find that the side saucer coil is now locked on. I don't have a replacement and I can't find anyone selling these on the internet, except for some garbage on ebay. The coil is p/n AF 27-1300.
After I get these two issues resolved, I should be back in business.
Thanks to everyone who has assisted me with this!

Locked coil is usually the result of a shorted transistor on the sdb.

1 month later
#1985 1 year ago

Has anyone added the clear concentric ring posts from PBL to their Xenon? I'm curious as to what it looks like.

#1991 1 year ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Not on Xenon, but I have used the clear posts quite often. I like them. [quoted image][quoted image]

That looks great! Thanks for posting.

2 months later
#2040 10 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Your outhole switch looks suspiciously stacked like it's missing the two inner isolating tubes because the fibre spacers aren't all sitting perfectly aligned.
I can't see on the drop target switch where the lug that has the non-banded side of the diode is sitting within the stack. Can you post more pictures of it including the top side where the lugs are?
For Q52 to burn like that usually means the lamp/socket has a dead short.

I was also looking at that outhole switch and thought it didn't look too good. Obviously rebuilt.

#2046 10 months ago
Quoted from mkdud:

The lug on the target sw #1 is not connected to any leaf and this is where the braid and non-banded side of the diode are going. I checked several other switches to make sure they are proper. i also checked for shorts in the diodes and made sure that the switches were not touching anything that they shouldn't.
Something else that seems weird. In switch test mode, if I close the slam on the tilt panel with my right hand and put my left hand on the side rail, the left pop bumper occasionally fires. I can send a video to your PM if you want.
Here is a picture of the blown f3. I think this fuse did not blow violently; I think it was just tired. no fuse blown after 10 games. I really appreciate your help! Thanks, mk
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Your drop target switch looks correct. The lug for the diode IS a leaf blade on this type of switch. The only thing I don't like is that I see some oxidation on the blade stiffener and leaf blades. Not that it's a big deal. On Xenon, the 4 upper roll over buttons knock down the drop targets. The roll over switches have capacitors. It's just a guess but maybe the cap is cause a phantom closure on your #1 target?

Orrrrrrr the roll over is sticking?

#2049 10 months ago
Quoted from mkdud:

The 1-4 buttons are not sticking and are all working properly They have new caps installed and new diodes. I just spent a bunch of time going through the buttons & their switches. I have been cleaning the oxidation out of the switches as I go with 91% alcohol & a toothbrush.
When I finished doing this, I played 3 games. First 2 games, no phantom switches.
3rd game, no ball in lock, only # 4 target down, ball rolling across middle of PF, SLAM
What is the best cleaner and way to get the oxidation out?
I'm going to be working on the target switches next.

A couple of things I would try. First check cap at the tilt Bob. Clip it as it's not needed in home use usually. If tilt happens when ball rolling down pf, check the tilt under pf. Maybe vibration is setting it off. It may be gapped too close. I would definitely start with the number 4 drop switch first. Maybe it has a flaky diode.

This may sound silly but also check the ball roll tilt. Sometimes after standing a game upright the ball falls and stays there. Maybe the ball roll track is bent and the ball is in limbo.

What mpu do have in her?

#2050 10 months ago

Forgot this one, tap on the pf while you have a game up. This may reveal a awitch adjustment issue.

#2054 10 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

I now use metal polish on switch contacts. Some recent discussion in the Firepower club thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-firepower-club/page/89#post-7592802

Tarnx seems to work well for me, even though gold doesn't tarnish?

#2055 10 months ago
Quoted from mkdud:

PHANTOM SWITCH closure issue from post #2014 SOLVED (well, almost...)
Thanks so much to Quench, F2k, and all those that helped!
As per Quench, I started disconnecting the non-diode switch lines to the suspect switches, and even disconnected the tilt panel.
The problem stopped when I disconnected the switch line (yellow) to the coin door slam tilt.
The diode on the switch was replaced by me recently, and the diode tests fine. I made sure the door mylar sticker for the slam was ok, and even insulated it more with some electrical tape. The switch looks fine. Can anybody see anything wrong with this switch?
It is kind of important to me that this slam switch works. If anybody would ever get rough with this machine, I want to know. Most people are respectful and treat my machines well. I want to know if they are not.
I was thinking maybe the insulations to the wires for the switch could be a bit wonky where the wires bend from the coin door opening. I was going to remove the tape to inspect these wires. What else should I be checking? Thanks again, mk
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

I don't see anything obvious, but the gap is very wide and if you want the switch to function on location, that gap has to be closer. I have had shorts within a harness so yes, you might want to pull that tape and inspect the wiring.

#2058 9 months ago
Quoted from Quench:

Hmm, I usually have an eagle eye but can't see it.
Too much solder on one lug causing a short to something else?
Inner screw tubes missing?
Grab your multi-meter and put it in high resistance mode. Check the resistance between the lugs and also to the metal bracket. You should only measure resistance across the diode lugs in one direction. Everything else should be total open circuit. Remember, with the meter in high resistance mode do not touch the meter probes with your fingers because your body will provide a circuit path and produce false readings.

Sometimes these 40+ year old switches have built up crap/wear that the softly softly cleaning approach doesn't work. Something a little more aggressive without being destructive seems the only way to revive them.

Just ordered the Wenol.

2 months later
#2103 7 months ago
Quoted from jibmums:

How were DIP switches usually configured from the factory, liberal or conservative, or a mixture of both?
While I'm here, what lites the spinner for 1000? Release of multiball? I only notice it lit during multiball.

Same here, only during multi-ball.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 10.00

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider lovef2k.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon?tu=lovef2k and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.