(Topic ID: 174124)

Xenon club...Members Only~Try Xeeeenon

By Yesh23

7 years ago


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  • Latest reply 6 days ago by legtod2
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#421 4 years ago
Quoted from kechlesurf:

I am not able to add any credits so i can play and i can not figure out what I am doing wrong.

There is a maximum credit setting. It caps out at 40.

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1 week later
#429 4 years ago
Quoted from Dutchy:

Currently we got the field at 3,2 degrees. Is this a normal angle or should it be more?
Looking forward to your answers, thanks in advance!

Hold your level to the bottom of the cabinet. If it's level there the game is configured as intended.

2 months later
#508 4 years ago

Its a GI wire. There are two each. The Orange should be Soldered to the same wire bus in parallel with the Red.

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1 month later
#546 4 years ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

Another note, these mirrors were given out at show as a promotional item. The had a xenon sticker placed over them. Pretty rare to find but I got one.

Yes I had a couple of those mirrors packed away that I scarfed up at a show. I sold them on ebay a few years ago when I was downsizing. They are ordinary concave truck blind spot mirrors. Its the decal that makes it a Xenon mirror. You could probably recreate them by printing on decal paper.

2 weeks later
#572 3 years ago

The first Bally sound board needed only 5v and ground. Bally digital sound boards needed 12v DC and S&T needed GI voltage to create -5v. The signalling remained the same though for all the different board types.

4 months later
#708 3 years ago
Quoted from StoneyCreek:

Does anyone know the actual height that Xenon should be set to?

Level the bottom of the cabinet and it will be set up as intended.

10 months later
#1103 2 years ago
Quoted from Kderrick:

In switch self test I get number 21 flashing #4 drop target. On the inside of the drop target assembly there is a braided wire running from drop target 1 to 3 and there seems to be a piece missing to number four. Should there be a piece connecting it and if so what type of wire is it?

Your picture is of the memory target knock down coils and not of switch wiring. The switch wiring will be on the backside of the target assembly. Something is stuck together, or is the target knocked down when you are running the test?

1 month later
#1157 2 years ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

It has new boards all around from Altek. Boots up into attract mode but goes immediately into tilt and will not start a game. I have checked all tilt switches and they are not closed.

Go into switch test. Gives me switch 1 stuck closed which is tube exit lane. Check that switch, looks ok. Cut the diode and error goes away (bad diode?). Then it gives me switch 3 stuck closed which is lower side target. Same thing, when I cut the diode leg it then says switch 4 which is upper side target. One more diode cut and I am now getting switch 9 stuck closed. Switch 9 is the right coin slot switch which was removed from the game when I bought it. The two red/white wires I soldered together but I can’t find whatever wire went to that switch originally. Anyone have an idea what wire to look for?

STOP CUTTING DIODES!!! Diodes are in series with a switch so a bad diode does not cause a switch to appear stuck. Just the opposite. A bad diode may cause a switch to not register. A shorted capacitor could cause a switch to appear stuck but the odds of having an entire row of bad caps out are small and drop targets do not need or have capacitors anyway. I assume you are trouble shooting this with the targets reset and up?

Try putting the game in switch test and pulling the switch connectors off the mpu. If the shorts go away then put them back on 1 at a time narrowing the problems down to playfield or cabinet. Probably s shorted strobe or return. Look for a wire shorting against a metal assembly somewhere.

#1158 2 years ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

I'm debating whether to just order the Trifecta with the Solenoid and lamp driver boards as well. I know the solenoid board takes care of the short fuse issue (my fuse was blown on the original board, someone wrapped it in foil and reinstalled it lol) and supposedly runs cooler than the original. Also Alltech says the lamp board will take care of ghosting on the LEDs?

Is it worth it to just replace them all or should I try the MPU first and see where it goes?

You can make a good case for a new MPU. I've been using the B&I MPU for a while now on my Power Play and it runs great. As for the full trifecta, typically not necessary. The lamp driver is easy to service and, IMHO, swapping the switched lamps to LEDs has minimal benefit. Leave them be and you will not have an issue with ghosting. As for the SD/PS board, typically they need the large filter caps updated, which is a simple repair. If you are switching to LED displays you can just pull the plug on the HV section. If your display will remain the original plasma the fuse is not really an issue as there are plenty of replacements available on ebay.

I'm of the opinion that keeping the game all original, where possible. is the best outcome.

2 weeks later
#1205 2 years ago

Getting around to Installing a hardtop on my project Xenon. CPR has not shown the Xenon reproduction playfield for over a year and at current pricing it may be around $1,000 when it comes in again. The hardtop was a lot lower in cost and I have an extra playfield to experiment on. Here are the before and after...

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1 week later
#1224 2 years ago

Hardtop completed on spare playfield. Now starts the swap.

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15
#1226 2 years ago

This game and Power Play joined my personal collection last year. I'm collecting games I personally worked on.
Still remember like it was yesterday. I was chatting my my old friend Greg Kmiec the other day. We agreed it was 40 years ago and memories are somewhat fuzzy, but I still for the most part remember just about every wire and where it goes.

We did a panel at Pinball Expo a few years ago where the creation of Xenon was discussed. I was the guy who tossed a second ball on the playfield during a lunch break leading to the last minute conversion to multiball. My 15 minutes or so of Xenon fame.

3 weeks later
#1267 2 years ago
Quoted from jbovenzi:

I give. How could royal blue fade to light pink? That's a good one.

The serial number is 1008

Wow! You have game #8! (serial numbers start at 1000) That would have been a lab prototype game.

Your game originally had blue posts. They fade over time to purple and pink.

FYI, the color dies fade in reverse order to the rainbow with the blues fading first leaving the reds as the last remaining die.

#1279 2 years ago
Quoted from alyssa:

Wow, I didn't know that! I have game #1033 so I guess that would be game 33.

I now have my Xenon fully playable with the exception of the sound during gameplay. Pressing the red test button on the sounds plus board cycles through the vocals (so the speaker definitely works) and the sound setting is on mode #3.

After the first 10 games the next 300 were pilot games that went out for location testing. Your game #33 would have started life in a Bally's Aladdin's Castle arcade somewhere or as a showroom sample on a distributers salesfloor.

I was going to mention checking the sound setting is at 3 but you already did that. Next step would be to crank the volume pots back and forth a few times to clean them.

1 month later
#1368 2 years ago

The original speakers were 4 ohms to make the sounds more clearer. Because the sound board was designed for an 8 ohm load it is necessary to put the 4 ohms in series to work properly. If you replace with 2 eight ohm speakers in parallel that translates to a 4 ohm load that will stress the sound board.

2 weeks later
#1404 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Thanks Al, do you have any more info/recollection about this?

The Sounds Plus audio board uses a TDA2002 amplifier I.C.
Specs for the TDA2002 state it can drive loads down to 1.6 ohms. A 4 ohm load looks within spec of the amplifier.

A couple of the speaker pictures above show the speakers were wired in parallel from factory (well the soldering on the speaker lugs look original). I've also seen situations where single 6" 4 ohm speakers were retrofitted.

Thanks Quench. Its hard to find 4ohm speakers anymore, at the time we were very concerned with getting the sound reproduced clearly and a 4 ohm was the way to go. It was feared the amp could overdrive the speaker so we used 2 of them. However if you put 2x 4s in parallel that works out to 2 ohms so hence they were wired in series. Today you would probably use an 8 speaker. In parallel that becomes 4 ohms so the only concern in switching the wiring is the quality of the sound and the load on the supply. I may have to reach out to Lance Chantry who is still around. Lance did a lot of the audio work and may know why we varied the wiring from series to parallel. It may be we feared the reliability in pre production but switched over after those fears proved unfounded.

3 weeks later
#1418 2 years ago

Xenon must detect 2 balls in order to start a game. When you press the start button it looks for a ball in the outhole and one in the trough. If you disconnect the trough switch the game should not start. It also needs to see both switches closed in order to know multiball is over. When a ball drains and there is no ball in the trough it kicks the ball from the outhole to the hold position in the trough. When the second ball drains to the outhole the game knows multiball is over and will advance to the next turn. I do not see how disconnecting the trough microswitch allows the game to start and play correctly.

13
#1422 2 years ago

A little history here. Xenon was originally a single ball game with an underground passage. It sat around in the lab for a couple of years as there was resistance to the idea of a disappearing ball. I asked Lance Chantry, one of my surviving peers, about the game and he told me he came up with the idea for the above playfield tube to get around head designer Norm Clark's objection to the player losing sight of the ball. Even so, IMHO, the game was boring. They added the chase light backbox and Susan Cianni's ground breaking sound effects all in in effort to make the game interesting. Still, it was uncertain if the game would go into production until Williams came out with Black Knight which would forever change the modern pinball landscape.

Bally's response to BK was to immediately put Xenon into production. The lab sample game sat in our engineering lab for a few days and I got to test play it a lot. With all the flash and dash I thought it still dull. I had been after the game designers to bring back multiball for a while but there continued to be a lot of pushback from the gatekeepers. European distributers were against the idea of multiball from a 'Pinball Purity standpoint. But with overwhelming success of BK the situation was ripe for change. One day as the team was breaking for lunch I started a game of Xenon and just for fun, and to prove my point, I added a second ball to the playfield. Greg Kmiec came over and looked over the action and was impressed. He called over some other team members and Xenon multiball was born!

That set off a rush to convert the game to multiball. Although I thought it a simple transition the designers though otherwise. To preserve the integrity of the game they decided to program it so the game would not play if it did not see both pinballs although it was still able to take in coins. This conflict would inevitably lead to countless service calls. A modified ball kicker and trough had to be deployed to handle multiball. Programmers put way to much thought into this and a couple new switches were added. One switch was added above the side saucer to sense a ball coming and kick out a captured ball less 2 balls get stuck there. Another switch was added to the trough so the game would know when multiball was ended. There is yet another switch at the end of the trough. I think that switch is there for the game to detect if a ball was stuck by the plunger.

After Xenon the multiball handling was simplified to use less complicated hardware. However they ignored my idea of having the game play, even if a ball was missing, to reduce service calls. And, as the late Paul Harvey would say, 'now you know, the rest of the story'.

#1426 2 years ago
Quoted from dscapo:

I would love if someone was brave enough to revisit this theme and modernize it while keeping the integrity of Faris’ art.

I would just love it if someone was brave enough to make any original themed game. We seem to be stuck in an era of non fictional art.

#1434 2 years ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

Im some what new to understanding how the matrix works myself, above I suggested the column of strobe 0 because it holds the tilt and the outhole which would lead to turns ending or games resetting. If drop target 4 has an issue what would that do in the way of what was described if the spinner is triggering the problem?

Not sure if your game is tilting or going into slam. A tilt would end the turn but would continue to the next ball or game over if last ball. A slam would reset the entire game. It would help if you further defined the exact issue.

Looking at the matrix as if it were a road map. To slam the game you have to travel from S1 to I7. However the bridge at slam is out so you have to detour. You would then travel up S1 through a stuck coin switch then backwards through a button diode down S2 to the #1 drop target onto I7, and presto! Slam. The problem with this scenario is you need booth a bad button diode and a stuck coin switch. But it could happen.

If your problem is Tilt that's a bit easier to explain. Tilt is at the intersection of S0 and I6. Again lets start at S0. We go up looking for a detour. The number 1 ball release may be closed as a ball is resting there so that puts us on I3, we go backwards through button 3 and down S2 where the #2 drop target is down through that switch to I6 and presto, Tilt! This scenario is easier to complete because in only requires a shorted diodes on the upper button. You may think it's related to the spinner because the spinner is turning while the ball is rolling over the buttons.

If both slam and tilt are happening it points to a bad #3 button diode.

3 months later
#1545 1 year ago

I have one. Sent you a message.

#1549 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

should I be replacing all the diodes as well?

Only if doing what I call an 'Anal' restoration.

#1550 1 year ago
Quoted from GoldenOreos:

when I lock a ball and get multiball and the 2 balls drain, it kicks out both balls for ball 2

Check the operation of your outhole and trough switch. The trough switch(es) are notorious for failing or sticking.

#1553 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Well, I have cleaned coil dust out of coils with a q-tip….

OK, Thats borderline but well let it pass.

1 week later
-1
#1584 1 year ago

PantherCityPins Although it will work the way you have it the flipper coils are turned the wrong way. The lugs should be at the back by the coil stop and the compression washer goes in the front.

#1591 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Out of curiousity what is the little light hole on the apron for? There was a socket stapled to the playfield underneath there. When does it light? Should I go through the trouble of reinstalling a socket and bulb?

Historically, the credit light was very important as in some regions of the country it was illegal to display a number of credits remaining less you have something of value to transfer thus fitting the game into a narrow definition of gambling. In later years, manufacturers moved to lighted credit buttons and in modern times they can just post on the backbox display there are credits to be played.
Back in the EM days, games would come with a sticker that would cover the credit wheel window.

#1607 1 year ago

@pinball_gizzard, that part covering the right end of the ball trough. So that's where that goes! Have that part in my leftovers after I did my Xenon swap and couldn't figure out where it went until just now. Thanks for the post!

#1620 1 year ago

In general for Bally games, If the lamp is fed by a smaller 22AWG wire with multi colors it's switched and the common braid should be fed by an 18AWG solid blue wire.
Lamps that are fed by larger 18 AWG wires on both sides are GI and they are fed by Orange, Red, White, or green wires.

#1629 1 year ago

You are going about this the right way. You've narrowed the short down to the playfield and you may have to narrow it down further.
The Switched bus arrives on a solid blue 18AWG wire from the rectifier supply. Follow that wire around identifying every braid location it solders to.
Trace that braid around and make sure no other wires connect to it except that blue wire. Note every lamp socket tied to the braid should be fed by a smaller 22AWG wire of multiple colors.
Pay special attention to the switched lamps on the left side of the PF by the tube exit that are often confused as GI lights.
If you cant spot anything you will need to narrow it down further by unsoldering ail the SWIL connections to the braid and breaking the braid up into segments trouble shooting it by smaller segment until you narrow it down.

#1646 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

My brand new LED tube light strip is not lighting at all. Does nothing during a game or during lamp test mode.

That 20 blue wire in the connector should work back and solder to the switched illumination bus. Try and trace it back through the cable and find where it connects. Remember I said earlier the switched bus should be fed by #18 solid blue wires. The exception is this smaller 22 AWG wire should solder on somewhere to bring the switched power to the strip.

#1652 1 year ago
Quoted from jibmums:

In the middle of playing a game, one of two things will occasionally happen: the background sounds will stop, and it will turn on again when I lock a ball in the left lock hole. The second thing is that sometimes, when I have a ball locked in the left hole and another ball on the playfield, the kicker will kick the ball out of the hole seemingly for no reason.

As we used to say, 'That's not a bug, its a feature'. When the ball passes through the tube the background sound is silenced. Landing in the bonus saucer is supposed to collect bonus and restart it. But If the ball comes off the tube and misses the saucer the background sound does not restart until our next tube shot. There is a spring post and a nail just before the saucer that is supposed to slow down the ball so it doesn't miss, but as much as I adjust it the ball sometimes skips over the saucer robbing me of bonus and background sound .

As for the left kickout, its controlled by a switch at the end of the tube that's there to make sure 2 balls do not get stuck in the left saucer. Sounds like the switch is out of adjustment or its capacitor is bad and the game is seeing it randomly closing.

2 months later
#1707 1 year ago
Quoted from Shenanigander:

On my end however the speech sometimes is clear, sometimes is very crackly and sometimes missing altogether.

This is usually caused by a dirty pot on the door and/or the board. If it's just the speech crank the speech pot back and forth a few times on the board. If it's all sound crank the door pot.

#1708 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

The LED bank of the tube lites has a pair of lights that is no longer flashing properly

Those two lights are wired together so it's an in-common problem. The LEDs are expecting a ground from the SCR on the board. Look carefully at the board and ground the SCR feed going to the LEDs. there should be a resistor in series so ground the connector side of the resistor and not the LED side. If they light the board and LEDs are fine and you need to work backwards from the connector to find the open or bad SCR.

#1714 1 year ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

can you clarify what SCR means in your explanation? Thanks!

Lights are turned on by an SCR, silicon controlled rectifier, transistor object on the lamp driver board. The #5 group is controlled by Q2 and it emerges from J1-25 on the board. If you short that pin to ground the LEDs should light up. Those high numbered pins are more likely to go cold over time. First thing to do if you haven't done so already, is to take the board out and reflow the solder connections to the pins. That will typically fix most lamp problems.

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1 month later
#1827 1 year ago
Quoted from PantherCityPins:

Anyone have a suggestions for speaker replacement or upgrade for these early solid state Ballys? My Xenon has tired speakers and I also have a Harlem Globetrotters and a Meteor in the restoration queue.

Automotive speakers have the best fidelity. That's what we used in Xenon.

4 weeks later
#1869 1 year ago

I have Pintech displays in my Xenon and there is no hum. Bally display hum is a common occurrence on older games with analog sound boards. The fix is to ground float the sound board off the mounts by using plastic washers. You may want to try that with the Sounds plus board. Temporarily unmount it and let it float without connected to the metal ground.

Also, verify your earth ground is good by plugging an outlet tester into the service outlet.

1 month later
#1946 1 year ago
Quoted from mkdud:

slam tilt goes off and I was not shaking the machine

Looking at the matrix if you have a stuck coin chute, the #1 target is knocked down, and buttons 2, 3, or 4, has a shorted diode then the game would slam when you rolled over the button with the shorted diode. You could try unplugging the front door while playing and note if that stops the slamming.

5 months later
#2021 11 months ago

All common issues with Xenon. Coils and switches close to the edge are the most vulnerable to being mangled by hands and trim.

2 weeks later
#2029 10 months ago
Quoted from mkdud:

Damn it! Just had a phantom SLAM switch closure. NO drop targets were down, and I had a ball locked in the side saucer. When the slam went off, the ball in play was not touching anything and was rolling across the middle of the playfield. The machine was not being nudged or shaken at all when the slam happened.

Looking at the matrix, slam is diagonally opposite the side saucer, and the other switches that make up the square are the left thumper bumper and Coin chute #3 (right coin chute).

Also, I have been replacing some of the switch diodes with 1n4004 and 1n4007's. Could this be causing a problem?

What should I be checking to fix this? Please help if you can, Thanks, mk

Slam shares the same strobe as the coin switches which rarely have diodes, although there is a way to modify the coin wiring to easily include a diode.
So if you had a stuck coin switch, reversed or shorted diodes on one of the rollover buttons, and the #1 DT was knocked down, the signal would travel up through the stuck coin switch, pass over through a rollover button, then down &up through the #1 drop target, causing a slam.

3 months later
#2098 7 months ago

When in doubt, RTFM.

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#2104 7 months ago
Quoted from runpatboyrun:

Maybe you should read the question properly as your answer doesn't actually answer the question.

Maybe you should read the manual. I think this sentence clearly answers your question.

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#2105 7 months ago
Quoted from jibmums:

How were DIP switches usually configured from the factory, liberal or conservative, or a mixture of both?
While I'm here, what lites the spinner for 1000? Release of multiball? I only notice it lit during multiball.

Games of that era came from the factory configured for 3-ball optioned as recommended in the manual. Recommendations were derived from in-house lab testing and further qualified from early pilot testing. Often a mix of conservative and liberal. Conservative settings were typically reserved for 5-ball use but often used for high player skill locations.
Spinner lights when multiball begins and stays lit through the remainder of the players turn.

#2107 7 months ago

Unless the games proved easy to beat, most operators just took 'em out of the box and plugged them in the way they came from the factory.

2 weeks later
#2116 6 months ago

Concur, the rollover switch and capacitor are really close to the edge and are easily bent if your not careful lowering the playfield.

2 months later
#2160 4 months ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Got this dirty girl for free today. Was amazed it did anything at all to be honest, but the boards seem to be stuck in a boot loop. Any ideas?

Great deal but sometimes you get what you pay for. Plugging any questionable game in, crossing fingers, and hoping for the best is a recipe ripe for disaster. Keeping an inoperable game up and running while you pull out the video camera and post to social media is pouring gasoline on the fire.

Hear those coil locking noises? That's a good sign you fried soothing that could have easily been prevented by doing a proper round of testing.

With a new game always start with power. Check the line cord and plug an outlet tester into the service outlet BEFORE TURNING THE GAME ON!
Unplug all the boards and measure voltages on the rectifier board, then plug in the SD board a measure the voltages there.

In the meanwhile, post some closeup pics of the boards, especially the MPU battery area.

#2171 4 months ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Here are some quick pics of my boards:

Boards look nice and clean. No visible battery damage. nice pro job installing what looks like a remote battery holder although it appears to be disconnected. The only issue I can see is the original large filter caps are still inplace on the SD board. I recommend updating them.
As far as the booting issue. Barring any battery damage, measure your operating voltage's at the board. If good you may need to remove each socketed chip and clean the pins then reseat.
Nice game, good luck.

#2196 4 months ago
Quoted from wrd1972:

It seems that both the middle bumper coils fire at the same time

Common problem on older bally bumpers. As Quench says, most common cause is not enough tension in the switch blades causing the vibration of a nearby bumper to close the switch so quickly its hard to see.
Try increasing the pressure of the blade resting against the spoon. If you need to, disconnect a wire from the suspect switch blade and note if the problem stops.
It's also possible the cap has failed. If the bumpers have original caps on the switches you should replace them.

2 weeks later
#2212 3 months ago
Quoted from play_pinball:

First couple plays it was in 3-ball, then just started counting to 4 every game.

Silly question but have you checked the game's memory and is not reset? Is the game is resetting to free ball mode instead of replay and awarding a free ball at a low scoring threshold?

#2214 3 months ago

Correct, should not be counting up. Still, I would check the memory settings. If the battery failed and there is gibberish in those setting from #16 up anything is possible.

2 months later
#2239 43 days ago

One of the ideas floated at the time was to make double scoring in effect during multiball. Unfortunately the decision to add multiball to Xenon was very last minute and there was no time to test the idea.

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