(Topic ID: 174124)

Xenon club...Members Only~Try Xeeeenon

By Yesh23

7 years ago


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There are 2,258 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 46.
#201 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Those are probably on the AUX Lamp driver board, mounted between the displays.
Print this sheet, it tells you where each lamp's driver lives, and what number SCR it is and what color the wire is:
http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/Tech_Charts/Bally_Xenon_Tech_Chart.pdf

Thanks, I had this but forgot I had pulled this off one of your other post. I was just looking at the manual. I'll have to take a look, see what I can find. I'll struggle for a while, but with the great info you guys offer on this site I'll get better. I've had and still have other pinball machines, but they were in great shape and I only had to do minimal work. Thanks again Vid!

#202 5 years ago

The lamps around the side saucer are on the AUX board, white/green stripe

there are like 2 or 3 of them all on this same transistor

#203 5 years ago

Craigb if you look up from your post on page 4 the ones I was talking about should be the 2x/4x you are looking at. I was referencing the wrong set - but the pins and transistors I talk about should be for your issue to compare if you are on the right track. There's some schematic there too that might help (not the red highlighted stuff). Do you have a full manual?

#204 5 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

craigb if you look up from your post on page 4 the ones I was talking about should be the 2x/4x you are looking at. I was referencing the wrong set - but the pins and transistors I talk about should be for your issue to compare if you are on the right track. There's some schematic there too that might help (not the red highlighted stuff). Do you have a full manual?

Yea, I have the manual, and a matrix sheet. I found the 2X, 4X and Shoot Again last night, but wasn't sure what the bulbs on the side, by the end of the shot tube would be called, other than gen ill, vid, gave me some input. The one set is wht/grn the other was grn/yel, so I'll check those out also. would be called. Thanks, I'll have time next week to do some testing and see if I can figure it out. I know they are bad sockets, I checked for voltage there, nothing.

#205 5 years ago
Quoted from Craigb:

by the end of the shot tube would be called,

"end of tube - general illumination" in that linked chart - green/yellow stripe, replace transistor Q12 on the AUX board

#206 5 years ago

Progress update...

I stuck an Alltek MPU in the game and it lights up. Got all the correct flashes on the MPU. So that's all good, and I am happy

Was able to do a coin door test with the button only once, and then it did not want to work after that. So I used the test button on the Mpu to continue the checks. Solenoids fired, all lights that were working flashed, 1 scoreboard does not work. And no sound at all. I checked both volume pots and the one on the door and I could get some humming as the lights flashed but no voice or music. Not happy about that.

Also could not get a game to start with Mpu set on freeplay or not. I could get games to show up on the credit/ball in play scoreboard but it will not start a game.

So a couple of questions...does the game use more than one ball, I have never played the game so I do not know. I thought maybe I did not have enough balls to start the game, so I put 2 in and still no start. Any thoughts?? Would like to at least get the game playing before I start tearing it all a part for paint and refurbishment.

And then on the music and voice..I am not even sure what to check on that. So any advice would be appreciated as well. Thanks!

#207 5 years ago

For free play with the Alltek MPU, you have to disable the credit display. The paper that came with the board will tell you which dipswitch to change.

#208 5 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

Progress update...

So a couple of questions...does the game use more than one ball, I have never played the game so I do not know. I thought maybe I did not have enough balls to start the game, so I put 2 in and still no start. Any thoughts?? Would like to at least get the game playing before I start tearing it all a part for paint and refurbishment.

Yes, it uses two balls.

#209 5 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

And then on the music and voice..I am not even sure what to check on that. So any advice would be appreciated as well.

There is a button on the sound card, press it and it will run through all the

#210 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There is a button on the sound card, press it and it will run through all the

Ok Tried that nothing

Quoted from bobukcat:

Yes, it uses two balls.

Yup I figured that out. Actually I got the game to play. It's kind of funny but with no sound I did not realize that it was racking up points on the scoreboards or even started for that matter. I was so busy looking at other things that I never looked up to see that it was scoring.

A lot of the pin connectors need replaced. which I think was part of the reason why it would not start. As far as the sound...I'll keep looking.

#211 5 years ago
Quoted from timab2000:

Ok Tried that nothing

Yup I figured that out. Actually I got the game to play. It's kind of funny but with no sound I did not realize that it was racking up points on the scoreboards or even started for that matter. I was so busy looking at other things that I never looked up to see that it was scoring.
A lot of the pin connectors need replaced. which I think was part of the reason why it would not start. As far as the sound...I'll keep looking.

Yes, re-pinning those Bally / Stern SS games is a must and very likely could solve your sound issue too though not guaranteed obviously.

#212 5 years ago

Silly question time, what do the pop bumpers score on xenon? The manual and the instructions in pinball arcade say 100 per hit, mine however are behaving very strangely, giving anything from 100 to 1600. Maybe a faulty diode somewhere?

#213 5 years ago
Quoted from Kevlar:

Silly question time, what do the pop bumpers score on xenon? The manual and the instructions in pinball arcade say 100 per hit, mine however are behaving very strangely, giving anything from 100 to 1600. Maybe a faulty diode somewhere?

Mine do 100. I tried multipliers and such and still only scored 100. Maybe when they kick they are vibrating other things near them causing scores.

#214 5 years ago

Ok, nob needs help! I have several lamps to fix, they are on different decoders, so I'll take one as an example. Same Shooter insert on playfield. On the LDC it comes in on J3-22, Q40, says blu/yel, looks black to me, wire 23. Anyway I shorted pin J3-22 to ground and the lamp comes on. I can't get a lead on Q40 to test voltage, can I go to pin 14, or 13 if you start from 0 and take a reading before it goes into the decoder then to I/23 on the left after the decoder IC?
Sorry about the image below, was trying to add a small clip of the schematic and once I loaded the image, I couldn't find a way to remove.

LDB (resized).pngLDB (resized).png
#215 5 years ago

What is the coil for in the coin door?

#216 5 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

What is the coil for in the coin door?

When the machine is off or the game has reached maximum credits, that coin door coil disengages so any coins dropped in the coin slots will be rejected.

#217 5 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

What is the coil for in the coin door?

I wrote down the wrong info, the Bally Controlled Lamp Chart shows the Same Player Shoot Again (Playfield) as Q40,A5J3-22, Code-23, Blu-Yel
MCR-106. I shorted it out on J3 and the Same Shooter light came on. I have voltage to Q40, but was wondering how to test past this point, I don't have a logic probe. Let me try to attach the image again.

Same Player Shoot Again (resized).jpgSame Player Shoot Again (resized).jpg
#218 5 years ago
Quoted from Craigb:

I wrote down the wrong info, the Bally Controlled Lamp Chart shows the Same Player Shoot Again (Playfield) as Q40,A5J3-22, Code-23, Blu-Yel

First, the Q40 SCR has three legs and a metal back/tab. The lamp driver board has the letters "C", "A" and "G" printed next to Q40 telling you what the legs are.

If you ground the metal back/tab of SCR Q40, the S.P.S.A lamp should light. This only tests that you have continuity from SCR Q40 to the lamp.
Next, grab a jumper wire and strip both ends. Connect one end of the jumper wire to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Connect the other end of the jumper wire to the "G" leg of SCR Q40. If the S.P.S.A lamp does not light then Q40 is suspect. This is how you test SCRs, when you connect the "G" (gate) leg of the SCR to test point TP3 the respective lamp should light.

#219 5 years ago

My right flipper died and I think it was wired up wrong from a previous owner. Can one of you please post nice clear pictures how yours are wired up. Just want to be sure I do it correctly with a new coil.

#220 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

First, the Q40 SCR has three legs and a metal back/tab. The lamp driver board has the letters "C", "A" and "G" printed next to Q40 telling you what the legs are.
If you ground the metal back/tab of SCR Q40, the S.P.S.A lamp should light. This only tests that you have continuity from SCR Q40 to the lamp.
Next, grab a jumper wire and strip both ends. Connect one end of the jumper wire to test point TP3 on the lamp driver board. Connect the other end of the jumper wire to the "G" leg of SCR Q40. If the S.P.S.A lamp does not light then Q40 is suspect. This is how you test SCRs, when you connect the "G" (gate) leg of the SCR to test point TP3 the respective lamp should light.

Ok, I didn't short out Q40, but I tested for voltage and it's there. I'll try shorting it out, probably light up like it did from the pin on J3, but on these SCR's with the tab on top, MCR-106-1, I can't see the legs, on the 2N5060 I can see the legs and the C, A, and G. I'll check it out tomorrow, I have to head out, thanks.

#221 5 years ago
Quoted from Craigb:

Ok, I didn't short out Q40, but I tested for voltage and it's there.

Ground the metal tab (which is basically the "A" leg of the SCR). If the light comes on then the next step is to jumper TP3 to the gate leg.
The gate leg of SCR Q40 connects from the lower leg of resistor R40 which is to the left of Q40, so you can jumper TP3 to the lower leg of R40 if you can't reach the gate leg under Q40.

#222 5 years ago

Ok, thanks, will do, like I said I'm new to pinball repair, reading learning as I go! Haven't had time to check anything else, hope to spend some time on it this weekend, thanks again for the help!

#223 5 years ago

I've got a new very annoying issue on my Xenon. After about 20 minutes or so, the middle pop bumper starts intermittently kicking, this will go on for 4-5 minutes until it does it constantly. Sure seems like something heating up and/or resistance, but I haven't found anything. The searching I've done many people talk about outside interference causing it on old Bally's...but I REALLY do not think that is the issue.

#224 5 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

intermittently kicking

Cap. .05 MFD 12v (E-586-80)
& 1N4004 / 1N4148 (E-587-6) or (E-587-14)
If not... SE9302 (E-00585-0034)
If not ...CA3081 (E-00681)
If not...1N4004 (E-587-6)

#225 5 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Cap. .05 MFD 12v (E-586-80)
& 1N4004 / 1N4148 (E-587-6) or (E-587-14)
If not... SE9302 (E-00585-0034)
If not ...CA3081 (E-00681)
If not...1N4004 (E-587-6)

I assume you mean check/replace these?

1030181000a (resized).jpg1030181000a (resized).jpg
#226 5 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I assume you mean check/replace these?[quoted image]

That sure looks like an original Bally capacitor on that switch. I would start there.

#227 5 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Cap. .05 MFD 12v (E-586-80)
& 1N4004 / 1N4148 (E-587-6) or (E-587-14)
If not... SE9302 (E-00585-0034)
If not ...CA3081 (E-00681)
If not...1N4004 (E-587-6)

Question for Vec-tor, I never thought of the diodes or transistors as contributing to the Bally phantom firing issue. Is that a known thing? The caps for sure.

#228 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

Ground the metal tab (which is basically the "A" leg of the SCR). If the light comes on then the next step is to jumper TP3 to the gate leg.
The gate leg of SCR Q40 connects from the lower leg of resistor R40 which is to the left of Q40, so you can jumper TP3 to the lower leg of R40 if you can't reach the gate leg under Q40.

This is on the ALD-A9, so that would be TP1 instead of TP3 correct? I've got some time today and tomorrow, going to start tracking this down.

#229 5 years ago

It's the cap

#230 5 years ago
Quoted from Craigb:

This is on the ALD-A9, so that would be TP1 instead of TP3 correct?

No. The auxiliary lamp driver board doesn't have the equivalent test point. You will need to use TP3 from the main lamp driver board for the jumper wire test to the gate legs of the SCRs on the aux lamp board.

#231 5 years ago

Is the switch closed or getting stuck ?

#232 5 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

No. The auxiliary lamp driver board doesn't have the equivalent test point. You will need to use TP3 from the main lamp driver board for the jumper wire test to the gate legs of the SCRs on the aux lamp board.

I hadn't messed with the lamp boards until now, I was working on larger issues. Should have done a TP test on all cards when I first started working on the machine, but lamps were a small issue then, anyway I testes TP1 and TP2 before i did anything. TP1 as at 5.3VDC, but TP2, which should be ground was at 3.9VDC. I checked J1 pins 13,14 and 15, had 4.1 VDC volts went to J3 pins 19 and 20 even though they show as not used and 4.1 VDC.
I pulled all the connectors on J1,2 and 3, and put them back on one at a time, the voltage came back on TP2 with each connector.
So I haven't gone any further with the individual lamp testing at this point.
Am I misreading this?

#233 5 years ago

Ok, I think I got a little carried away with working on this machine. I got it and resolved the no sound and the intermittent loss of all solenoids, but because it was partially working when I got it I didn't start from where I should have. With the weird voltage on TP2 Aux Lamp board,a slight humming coming from the speakers when in lamp test and a few other little things, I'm going back and start from the beginning, testing and bullet proofing/repairing each board and replacing connectors and pins, starting with the power supply then the Sol/Rectifier board and so on. All boards look to be in pretty good condition, is there any boards that I should just replace, Alltec or Rottendog? Like I said I only have $100 in it so far, don't want to just swap thing out, but for long term reliability and testing, I could replace if it really a better way to go.

#234 5 years ago
Quoted from Craigb:

Ok, I think I got a little carried away with working on this machine. I got it and resolved the no sound and the intermittent loss of all solenoids, but because it was partially working when I got it I didn't start from where I should have. With the weird voltage on TP2 Aux Lamp board,a slight humming coming from the speakers when in lamp test and a few other little things, I'm going back and start from the beginning, testing and bullet proofing/repairing each board and replacing connectors and pins, starting with the power supply then the Sol/Rectifier board and so on. All boards look to be in pretty good condition, is there any boards that I should just replace, Alltec or Rottendog? Like I said I only have $100 in it so far, don't want to just swap thing out, but for long term reliability and testing, I could replace if it really a better way to go.

You can bulletproof the entire thing, or just buy new boards. The old Time vs. Money thing

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

#235 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can bulletproof the entire thing, or just buy new boards. The old Time vs. Money thing
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

True, I was just wondering peoples thoughts any boards that are finicky and might be better off replacing. Thanks for the link, I saw this when I first got on this site and was going to find it to reference as I go, I also have the URL for the Repairing Bally Electronic Pinball Games from 1977 to 1985 document, tons of good stuff there also. I should have done this from the start, but this is the first machine I ever had to do anything to besides replace rubbers and lamps.

#236 5 years ago

Honestly for starter boards these are great. You would have to really screw up to make them unusable because if you tear off any traces you can just run wire easily. They are far enough apart you can concentrate on one and not really have to worry about screwing up others in the process and the traces themselves are easy to follow across the board. It's just a matter if you want to mess with it or not. If you don't, most likely someone would buy them off you to recoup a little cost of a repro board. (Or you could send them out to get them fixed).

#237 5 years ago

The MPU still had a battery on it when I got it, took it off, installed NVRAM. Front of the board looks pretty good, but if the back is really damaged I might think about upgrading it. Not sure what's going on with the aux lamp driver, have 3.9 VDC on TP2, tried to isolate it by taking all the connectors off the board and installing them one at a time and checking, but it comes back no mater which connector I plug in and with all them off, I loose the hum from the speakers. So I'll have to really check that one and it's connections, but for now I'm going to work on the power supply/board, get a kit and replace all the diodes, bridge rectifiers, but I want something bigger than the IN4007 diode's in the kit. I was reading somewhere that the connectors on the power board really get corroded/tarnished, Big Daddy has a connector kit for the power board, wonder if this would be a good idea to get it and change both sides?

#238 5 years ago

Hey everyone. I picked up a Xenon a couple of weeks back (one of my must have machines) and I want to put LEDs on the underside of the playfield. Will I need to replace the lamp board if I'm keeping the GI incandescent? If I do need to replace the Lamp board, will I also have to replace Aux LED lamp driver board?

#239 5 years ago
Quoted from RandomTask:

Hey everyone. I picked up a Xenon a couple of weeks back (one of my must have machines) and I want to put LEDs on the underside of the playfield. Will I need to replace the lamp board if I'm keeping the GI incandescent? If I do need to replace the Lamp board, will I also have to replace Aux LED lamp driver board?

Yes, you either need an Alltek lamp driver board, LED adapters or solder a resistor to each lamp socket. I didn't need to do anything special with the AUX lamp driver on mine.

#240 5 years ago

I have a Xenon that I recently restored, came out great, just having a few issues that I hope someone can shed some light on. After plugging everything back in I learned I had a few wires on incorrectly, which was fixed and machine started up after. the first issue now, the outhole ejector fires very faintly and will not advance the ball up the guides to start a game. If I push the ball up manually it will start up and can play. Secondly, I had great flippers before restoration and now the left flipper is rather weak and also sticks at times for a few seconds. Change EOS?

thanks for the suggestions

#241 5 years ago
Quoted from Breger1:

I have a Xenon that I recently restored, came out great, just having a few issues that I hope someone can shed some light on. After plugging everything back in I learned I had a few wires on incorrectly, which was fixed and machine started up after. the first issue now, the outhole ejector fires very faintly and will not advance the ball up the guides to start a game. If I push the ball up manually it will start up and can play. Secondly, I had great flippers before restoration and now the left flipper is rather weak and also sticks at times for a few seconds. Change EOS?
thanks for the suggestions

What do you mean by restored? Did you restore the original playfield or swap in a CPR?

I swapped in a CPR playfield in mine and I noticed the holes for the outhole kicker are slightly off. Mine also kicks the ball weakly into the trough. I think I rounded out the holes somewhat on the mech to position it better, but it still doesn't work that great.

Did you rebuild your flippers with all new parts or just swap them over?

#242 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

What do you mean by restored? Did you restore the original playfield or swap in a CPR?
I swapped in a CPR playfield in mine and I noticed the holes for the outhole kicker are slightly off. Mine also kicks the ball weakly into the trough. I think I rounded out the holes somewhat on the mech to position it better, but it still doesn't work that great.
Did you rebuild your flippers with all new parts or just swap them over?

I put in a new CPR playfield, from Classic Arcades. It really turned out great, everything lined up real well. I will check the positioning on it. It had seamed to me that it was more of solenoid problem, it barely has any juice when firing, and the ball moves less than an inch. I'll recheck the wiring and look at the coil sleeve?

I did not rebuild the flippers. I did order new EOS switches, nylon bushings and coil stop. I'm rather novus when it comes to repairing pinball machines, learning a lot as I go. I now wish I had just ordered the complete rebuild kit after doing some reading this past weekend. Or convert to non-linear flippers per Vid.

#243 5 years ago

I didn't mean CPR, it was just an overlay, sanded down original playfield and put new overlay, the cut out inserts and original holes to match

#244 5 years ago
Quoted from Breger1:

It had seamed to me that it was more of solenoid problem, it barely has any juice when firing, and the ball moves less than an inch. I'll recheck the wiring and look at the coil sleeve?

Yes check the wiring and sleeve first. If that's not it you may have to replace the driver transistor on the solenoid driver board.

Quoted from Breger1:

I did not rebuild the flippers. I did order new EOS switches, nylon bushings and coil stop. I'm rather novus when it comes to repairing pinball machines, learning a lot as I go. I now wish I had just ordered the complete rebuild kit after doing some reading this past weekend. Or convert to non-linear flippers per Vid.

You may not have enough play between the flipper bat and the bushing, that can cause binding. Try lifting up on the flipper at rest and when energized and make sure there is a little play. If you want to rebuild, go with Marco or Pinballlife. I haven't been happy with the metal PBR is using in their kits.

#245 5 years ago

I checked everything out on the ball trough, everything is hooked up well. I have not checked transistor yet. My only other thought would be the positioning. I've attached a photo. I'm questioning whether I installed the lane backwards? The first section coming out from the ejection spot has a higher degree of pitch, then goes down to a more horizontal line to the ball stop before ejecting into the ball lane?

IMG_3195 (002) (resized).jpgIMG_3195 (002) (resized).jpg
#246 5 years ago

I replaced EOS switch on the left flipper which I've been having trouble with enough snap. It didn't change much. I have noticed since installing the cabinet buttons back in there is a lot more play in them, not very firm at all up against the flipper switch. Could this be causing some of the issues? If so I have new flipper switches I can install.

#247 5 years ago
Quoted from Breger1:

I replaced EOS switch on the left flipper which I've been having trouble with enough snap. It didn't change much. I have noticed since installing the cabinet buttons back in there is a lot more play in them, not very firm at all up against the flipper switch. Could this be causing some of the issues? If so I have new flipper switches I can install.

Yes it could. Install new switches and scuff up the contacts first. Have you tried pulling up and down on the flipper bat yet to check for play?

Quoted from Breger1:

I checked everything out on the ball trough, everything is hooked up well. I have not checked transistor yet. My only other thought would be the positioning. I've attached a photo. I'm questioning whether I installed the lane backwards? The first section coming out from the ejection spot has a higher degree of pitch, then goes down to a more horizontal line to the ball stop before ejecting into the ball lane?[quoted image]

The trough is installed correctly.

#248 5 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Yes it could. Install new switches and scuff up the contacts first. Have you tried pulling up and down on the flipper bat yet to check for play?
I installed the new switches and EOS for left flipper and it is working better, still a little weak. I think it's the best I'll get it. Again I didn't purchase the rebuild kit which I should've. But will switch out coil stop and coil sleeve and see if that helps. Maybe I'll do a rebuild in future when I have other things I need to order.

The trough is installed correctly.

The last issue is trough then fully functioning machine. I'm going to clean coil sleeve and replace coil stop. I've read this is a common problem in Xenon, with weak ejection of second ball. I'll consider modifying the trough as shown here..http://www.jeff-z.com/pinball/xenon/repair/repair.html

#249 5 years ago
Quoted from Breger1:

I'm going to clean coil sleeve

They are what .40 cents? It's not worth your time to try and clean something that is uncleanable, just replace it.

#250 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

They are what .40 cents? It's not worth your time to try and clean something that is uncleanable, just replace it.

Maybe he doesn't have a new one laying around??

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