(Topic ID: 174124)

Xenon club...Members Only~Try Xeeeenon

By Yesh23

5 years ago


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  • Latest reply 25 days ago by caseydanger
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There are 1,687 posts in this topic. You are on page 33 of 34.
#1601 55 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

The switch matrix picks up the collapsing magnetic field and triggers a phantom activation.
I have found caps added to the flipper EOS almost eliminates this.

The typical 0.047 uf that’s used throughout the playfield?

#1602 54 days ago

Bally software geek
Notes: The Bally pinball software has two programs that run at the same time.
------- Fast acting solenoids are programmed to activate when a condition of
------- [open-closed] The rest of the switch program is designed to read
------- [open-closed-closed].
------- Zero phase is from the +50 volts. So noise from the flipper causes the little
------- spikes to the [open-closed] part of the software. Thus, a random fast response
------- solenoid gets picked and fired... even though a switch associated with the assembly
------- is not activated.

#1603 54 days ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

The typical 0.047 uf that’s used throughout the playfield?

2.2uF 250V non polarity cap hooked across the EOS switch.

I ran mine on the flipper coil terminal end- power feed terminal and center terminal. The power feed terminal will have two wires on it, the other runs down to the EOS.

For $2.50 each worth giving a try. Extend the life of your EOS at least. All my Bally and Stern playfields have these now, it reduces the problem a lot.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP

f92f5f8b8601daaba9f49623592519b52ae986b3 (resized).jpg

#1604 54 days ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

What would cause the left pop bumper to randomly fire when the left flipper button is released?

Is there a capacitor in parallel to the bumper switch? Is so, snip him off and report the difference.

IMG_20220508_115046 (resized).jpg
#1605 54 days ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Is there a capacitor in parallel to the bumper switch? Is so, snip him off and report the difference. [quoted image]

When I did my restoration I recapped all of the pop bumpers and they all acted up. Would fire all over the place, ball would hit the lower pop and all 4 would go off with no rhyme or reason so I removed all of the caps from the pop bumpers. Calmed them down but I was left with the Left Pop doing this random firing from the flipper being released.

Quoted from vec-tor:

Bally software geek
Notes: The Bally pinball software has two programs that run at the same time.
------- Fast acting solenoids are programmed to activate when a condition of
------- [open-closed] The rest of the switch program is designed to read
------- [open-closed-closed].
------- Zero phase is from the +50 volts. So noise from the flipper causes the little
------- spikes to the [open-closed] part of the software. Thus, a random fast response
------- solenoid gets picked and fired... even though a switch associated with the assembly
------- is not activated.

vec-tor sounds like you’re confirming this anomaly with these notes right?

Quoted from gdonovan:

2.2uF 250V non polarity cap hooked across the EOS switch.
I ran mine on the flipper coil terminal end- power feed terminal and center terminal. The power feed terminal will have two wires on it, the other runs down to the EOS.
For $2.50 each worth giving a try. Extend the life of your EOS at least. All my Bally and Stern playfields have these now, it reduces the problem a lot.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP
[quoted image]

Thanks for the link I’ll give it a shot.

#1606 54 days ago
Quoted from mrm_4:

vec-tor sounds like you’re confirming this anomaly with these notes right?

This is a well known issue, particularity on Bally titles of this vintage. The last playfield harness I fabricated, I even went to the trouble of making the wiring matrix a separate piece that was run away from any coil wiring runs.

#1607 53 days ago

Pinball_Gizzard, that part covering the right end of the ball trough. So that's where that goes! Have that part in my leftovers after I did my Xenon swap and couldn't figure out where it went until just now. Thanks for the post!

#1608 53 days ago

Bally software geek part two.
Note: Bally changed the zero crossing from the +50 volts
------ to the +6.5 lamp voltage... on later games.
------ R113 would be changed to a diode along with a new transformer.
------ The lamp circuitry would be divided in to two phases,
------ [Phase A] and [phase B] These changes seem to have fixed
------ the phantom solenoid firing that plagued the earlier designs.

#1609 53 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Bally software geek part two.
Note: Bally changed the zero crossing from the +50 volts
------ to the +6.5 lamp voltage... on later games.
------ R113 would be changed to a diode along with a new transformer.
------ The lamp circuitry would be divided in to two phases,
------ [Phase A] and [phase B] These changes seem to have fixed
------ the phantom solenoid firing that plagued the earlier designs.

Is R113 on the MPU? If so would the new Allteks have considered this?

#1610 53 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Bally software geek part two.
Note: Bally changed the zero crossing from the +50 volts
------ to the +6.5 lamp voltage... on later games.
------ R113 would be changed to a diode along with a new transformer.
------ The lamp circuitry would be divided in to two phases,
------ [Phase A] and [phase B] These changes seem to have fixed
------ the phantom solenoid firing that plagued the earlier designs.

At what point? My Fireball Classic has phantom coil firing time to time.

#1611 53 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

At what point? My Fireball Classic has phantom coil firing time to time.

Baby Pacman.... era. New transformer.
Lamps are split into two cycles.
Lamp SCR controls two lamps instead of one.
Lamp sockets have isolation diodes.

#1612 53 days ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Baby Pacman.... era. New transformer.
Lamps are split into two cycles.
Lamp SCR controls two lamps instead of one.
Lamp sockets have isolation diodes.

Baby Pac came out in '82, Fireball Classic '85

Out of curiosity I'm going to have to research that one, oddball machine.

#1613 53 days ago

Bally MPU AS-2518-133 series...
Precursor for the 6803 MPU.

#1614 52 days ago

Trying to sort out my wiring on the new playfield.

As this is my first Bally to swap, I assumed (incorrectly) that the braid was all ground. So, when I ran the braid I copied the back of my game pretty much but wasn’t obsessive about running it exactly the same.

Anyhow, when I powered on for the first time my F1 fuse blew. I have a dead short in the braid from the GI ground over to the DC hot on the controlled lamps. It looks like it’s only one small section that was connected so shouldn’t be a huge deal to fix but I have some questions before I start cutting braid:

1. Are all the insert lamps on the same controlled circuit? I went back and looked at my pictures and it sure looks like some of them are connected to GI ground. Things like some of the arrow inserts or the large capture when lit insert by the drop targets look to have been connected to GI ground before? Are there any insert lamps that use the GI circuit?

2. The lights behind the stand up targets, those are on the GI circuit correct? Again, the braid wiring on my pics seems to look like it’s connected over to the insert braid.

Rookie mistake I know but any help is appreciated!

#1615 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Trying to sort out my wiring on the new playfield.
As this is my first Bally to swap, I assumed (incorrectly) that the braid was all ground. So, when I ran the braid I copied the back of my game pretty much but wasn’t obsessive about running it exactly the same.
Anyhow, when I powered on for the first time my F1 fuse blew. I have a dead short in the braid from the GI ground over to the DC hot on the controlled lamps. It looks like it’s only one small section that was connected so shouldn’t be a huge deal to fix but I have some questions before I start cutting braid:
1. Are all the insert lamps on the same controlled circuit? I went back and looked at my pictures and it sure looks like some of them are connected to GI ground. Things like some of the arrow inserts or the large capture when lit insert by the drop targets look to have been connected to GI ground before? Are there any insert lamps that use the GI circuit?
2. The lights behind the stand up targets, those are on the GI circuit correct? Again, the braid wiring on my pics seems to look like it’s connected over to the insert braid.
Rookie mistake I know but any help is appreciated!

Hi.

Bally Solid State in General:

There are three different braid wires under the playfield, two for the GI ad one for controlled lamps (since the other end of each controlled lamp is connected to the driver individually (no lamp matrix)

GI is alternating current. Controlled lamps is direct current.

Do not mix them up.

Xenon in special:

There are a lot of lamps that look like GI, but are controlled. For example, the lamps around the exit of the left saucer look like GI, but are controlled (and are only switched on in very rare and short moments of the game). Also, there are controlled lamps behind the drop targets, showing which one can be dropped by those buttons on top of the playfield.

Vice versa, there are no inserts in Xenon that are wired to the GI. I am not 100% sure of this, but this only is done in rare cases when a insert is to be lit all the time, I dont't remember that Xenon has one of those.

Martin

#1616 52 days ago
Quoted from Thunfisch:

Hi.
Bally Solid State in General:
There are three different braid wires under the playfield, two for the GI ad one for controlled lamps (since the other end of each controlled lamp is connected to the driver individually (no lamp matrix)
GI is alternating current. Controlled lamps is direct current.
Do not mix them up.
Xenon in special:
There are a lot of lamps that look like GI, but are controlled. For example, the lamps around the exit of the left saucer look like GI, but are controlled (and are only switched on in very rare and short moments of the game). Also, there are controlled lamps behind the drop targets, showing which one can be dropped by those buttons on top of the playfield.
Vice versa, there are no inserts in Xenon that are wired to the GI. I am not 100% sure of this, but this only is done in rare cases when a insert is to be lit all the time, I dont't remember that Xenon has one of those.
Martin

That is very helpful, thanks!

A more specific question, the lamps behind the two circular stand up targets. Are these controlled or GI?

Also, the pops are supposed to be lit all the time correct?

#1617 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

the lamps behind the two circular stand up targets. Are these controlled or GI?

1) control.

Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

pops are supposed to be lit all the time correct?

2) yes.

#1618 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

That is very helpful, thanks!
A more specific question, the lamps behind the two circular stand up targets. Are these controlled or GI?
Also, the pops are supposed to be lit all the time correct?

As mentioned, they are controlled. Also, there is a lamp UNDER the ramp at the tube exit that is controlled. I pointed these out in my build thread and rewired the lamps behind the standups as GI.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-with-comet-leds-and-custom-upgrades#post-2332812

#1619 52 days ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

As mentioned, they are controlled. Also, there is a lamp UNDER the ramp at the tube exit that is controlled. I pointed these out in my build thread and rewired the lamps behind the standups as GI.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-with-comet-leds-and-custom-upgrades#post-2332812

Wow, that’s great! I was thinking about doing something similar because if all those bulbs are controlled it seems it would be pretty dark on that side of the playfield. I’ll take a look at your thread and see what you did.

Thanks!

#1620 52 days ago

In general for Bally games, If the lamp is fed by a smaller 22AWG wire with multi colors it's switched and the common braid should be fed by an 18AWG solid blue wire.
Lamps that are fed by larger 18 AWG wires on both sides are GI and they are fed by Orange, Red, White, or green wires.

#1621 52 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

A more specific question, the lamps behind the two circular stand up targets. Are these controlled or GI?

If you've got access to an EPROM programmer, here's a ROM mod that reverses the state of those controlled lamps so they're normally on to light up the playfield and instead flash off.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/25#post-6482758

#1622 52 days ago
Quoted from BigAl56:

In general for Bally games, If the lamp is fed by a smaller 22AWG wire with multi colors it's switched and the common braid should be fed by an 18AWG solid blue wire.
Lamps that are fed by larger 18 AWG wires on both sides are GI and they are fed by Orange, Red, White, or green wires.

Awesome tip! That will make it much easier for me to tell which are supposed to be GI and which are switched. The more I learn it looks like my braiding wasn’t all that far off after all, I just didn’t realize there were so many switched bulbs on the playfield itself.

#1623 52 days ago
Quoted from Quench:

If you've got access to an EPROM programmer, here's a ROM mod that reverses the state of those controlled lamps so they're normally on to light up the playfield and instead flash off.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/xenon-clubmembers-onlytry-xeeeenon/page/25#post-6482758

Haa. I still have not gotten around to that.

#1624 52 days ago

Be daring and light up the posts.

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#1625 52 days ago

Did you use one of the off the shelf led post lights for sale from multiple vendors? I purchased one to test and it fits well in hollow non ribbed posts. Could you please post a picture of how you accomplished this mod with ribbed posts. thanks.

#1626 52 days ago
Quoted from Nhpolarbear:

Did you use one of the off the shelf led post lights for sale from multiple vendors? I purchased one to test and it fits well in hollow non ribbed posts. Could you please post a picture of how you accomplished this mod with ribbed posts. thanks.

I just used the traditional finned posts on Bally games and these lights from Pinball Life: https://www.pinballlife.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=abl_SP

I was actually inspired by another pinsider Damonator that did this. Cool thing is those LEDs can handle being crushed by the post, no need for the hollow ones.

#1627 52 days ago

I purchased that exact led. I’ll give it a try. thanks.

#1628 50 days ago

Trying to chase down my dead short issue between the GI and the controlled lamps.

Multimeter confirms a connection between GI ground and controlled lamp hot braid.
There are no obvious connections between these two circuits noted on the playfield itself.
When I unplug the playfield connector from the power supply board in the cabinet, the short goes away.

There is no continuity between the green and blue male inputs on the playfield power source connector.

When I check the female inputs on the power board there is continuity from the green input to the blue wire input on the playfield power connector.

The power supply board is a brand new one from Pinball Life and seemed to work fine with the prior playfield.

Ideas?

#1629 49 days ago

You are going about this the right way. You've narrowed the short down to the playfield and you may have to narrow it down further.
The Switched bus arrives on a solid blue 18AWG wire from the rectifier supply. Follow that wire around identifying every braid location it solders to.
Trace that braid around and make sure no other wires connect to it except that blue wire. Note every lamp socket tied to the braid should be fed by a smaller 22AWG wire of multiple colors.
Pay special attention to the switched lamps on the left side of the PF by the tube exit that are often confused as GI lights.
If you cant spot anything you will need to narrow it down further by unsoldering ail the SWIL connections to the braid and breaking the braid up into segments trouble shooting it by smaller segment until you narrow it down.

#1630 48 days ago

Doing a swap for someone now and trying to ID what should be here.

It’s currently it was a tall metal post. What is supposed to be there?

F510C1BB-9037-483F-869B-6D580C21A99B (resized).jpeg
#1631 48 days ago
Quoted from dmacy:

Doing a swap for someone now and trying to ID what should be here.
It’s currently it was a tall metal post. What is supposed to be there?
[quoted image]

It's a wide bell post with a thick washer on top. And wow, I can't believe how filthy my game was.

101_1772 (resized).JPG101_2561 (resized).JPG

#1632 48 days ago

Thank you!

#1633 48 days ago

GI/Switched lamp short solved. I did have a short on the playfield braid, I added in the lamps under the upper plastic that were drilled on the CPR playfield but not drilled on my original playfield. My mistake was I ran braid thinking it was ground and it was not. Clipped that connection and problem solved. I'll run a separate insulated ground wire over for those two GI lamps.

Thanks again guys!

#1634 47 days ago

Oh it's so close! I've gotten everything working, lamps all rewired and sorted. No switch errors in switch test. It goes into a game and scores fine.

Last issue. My brand new LED tube light strip is not lighting at all. Does nothing during a game or during lamp test mode.

Edit: On close inspection of the connector to the strip there is a bunch of blue goo in the first wire hole (orange/white wire). I removed the pin and tried to clean out the goo but still no lights. Guess I'm ordering another connector and pins.
BEA3DBE7-DD62-4FD1-814B-BC9B053CBA6D (resized).jpegD7BF9161-930A-4479-BC1A-1889DA03B828 (resized).jpeg

#1635 47 days ago

Well, looks like it's not just the connector. I had a 0.100 connector around and put a new pin on the orange wire, removed and cleaned all other pins and replaced them, still nothing from the light strip.

From the schematic it looks like this is controlled from J1 on the MPU board? I'm not the best at schematics though.

#1636 47 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Oh it's so close! I've gotten everything working, lamps all rewired and sorted. No switch errors in switch test. It goes into a game and scores fine.
Last issue. My brand new LED tube light strip is not lighting at all. Does nothing during a game or during lamp test mode.
Edit: On close inspection of the connector to the strip there is a bunch of blue goo in the first wire hole (orange/white wire). I removed the pin and tried to clean out the goo but still no lights. Guess I'm ordering another connector and pins.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That is the chemical reaction of the insulation jacket decomposing with the metal connector.
Atoms are switching around along with moister from the air...Copper oxide...
1) flux remover can clean the connector housing..
1a) apply new connector pins...

#1637 47 days ago

The playfield I’m swapping has a missing upper rollover button. I ordered a new button but has anyone found a new bushing/parts list?

962B2280-1A77-4A19-BB70-10F12BC29AED (resized).jpeg
#1638 47 days ago
Quoted from dmacy:

The playfield I’m swapping has a missing upper rollover button. I ordered a new button but has anyone found a new bushing/parts list?[quoted image]

I have never seen it for sale anywhere. I'll look through my extra xenon parts to see if I have a spare but no promises.

#1639 47 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Well, looks like it's not just the connector. I had a 0.100 connector around and put a new pin on the orange wire, removed and cleaned all other pins and replaced them, still nothing from the light strip.
From the schematic it looks like this is controlled from J1 on the MPU board? I'm not the best at schematics though.

See if the strip lights up in lamp test. I'm pretty sure the strip works the same as the other switched lamps. Verify 6.3v and the connector. I'll look at my schematics to see what you need to check for.

#1640 47 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

I have never seen it for sale anywhere. I'll look through my extra xenon parts to see if I have a spare but no promises.

Thank you! Will be happy to compensate you. Feel free to PM me and thank you for reaching out!!!!

#1641 47 days ago
Quoted from Lovef2k:

See if the strip lights up in lamp test. I'm pretty sure the strip works the same as the other switched lamps. Verify 6.3v and the connector. I'll look at my schematics to see what you need to check for.

No lights in lamp test either.

#1642 47 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

Well, looks like it's not just the connector. I had a 0.100 connector around and put a new pin on the orange wire, removed and cleaned all other pins and replaced them, still nothing from the light strip.
From the schematic it looks like this is controlled from J1 on the MPU board? I'm not the best at schematics though.

J1 pin 25 and
J3 pins 16, 20, 6 and 7

#1643 46 days ago

sorry. deleted that, since whole post made no sense.

#1644 46 days ago

Huge thanks to Lovef2k !

#1645 46 days ago

I’m missing a handful of 3/4” long drop target switch screws. Are they 5-40 or 4-40?

Added 44 days ago:

They are 4-40 3/4” screws.

#1646 45 days ago
Quoted from Pinball_Gizzard:

My brand new LED tube light strip is not lighting at all. Does nothing during a game or during lamp test mode.

That 20 blue wire in the connector should work back and solder to the switched illumination bus. Try and trace it back through the cable and find where it connects. Remember I said earlier the switched bus should be fed by #18 solid blue wires. The exception is this smaller 22 AWG wire should solder on somewhere to bring the switched power to the strip.

#1647 44 days ago

I'm finally getting my game dialed in and, of course, running into issues. Could one of you members check a couple of things for me?

- In switch test mode, when I trigger any of the four pop bumpers or either of the slingshots, instead of registering the switch # in the credit window, the solenoid will fire. Does your Xenon do this?

- In the middle of playing a game, one of two things will occasionally happen: the background sounds will stop, and it will turn on again when I lock a ball in the left lock hole. The second thing is that sometimes, when I have a ball locked in the left hole and another ball on the playfield, the kicker will kick the ball out of the hole seemingly for no reason. I *think* both things are happening because I'm getting a phantom switch closure at the "end of tube lane" switch #01. Could someone please start a game and then press that switch by hand while the background sounds are playing, and see if they stop; and then press the left lock hole switch and see if the sound comes back on? At least that will tell me if it's my switch that's acting flukey, or to look for another reason. Thanks guys.

#1648 43 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

middle of playing a game, one of two things will occasionally happen: the background sounds will stop, and it will turn on again when I lock a ball in the left lock hole

That is normal. If you lock a ball and it occasionally jumps over the switch in front of the lock, there will be silence until you manage to hit that switch with another ball. I guess it's a Bug.

#1649 43 days ago
Quoted from jibmums:

switch test mode, when I trigger any of the four pop bumpers or either of the slingshots, instead of registering the switch # in the credit window, the solenoid will fire. Does your Xenon do this

Solenoids do fire, that's okay, but number should appear in the display, anyhow. Did you hold the switch long enough? That test software is wayyy slower than the game routines. If you pull your finger away in order not to be hit by the bumper, this might not be long enough.

#1650 43 days ago

Page 17

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