Sounds Plus has new axial caps
New pots
New amp
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Vocal has new axial caps
New regulator
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I even went with the recommended 220uf on the vocal board for C25 per GPE
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Nothing immediately stands out. I might take a closer look again later.

In your restoration thread, you originally had two 8 ohm speakers wired in parallel.
What's the ohms rating on the two replacement speakers? Are they both working (do you feel the cone move in both)?

The new are also 8 ohm. I took them out and put the originals back because I thought the low volume was because I had bad replacement speakers. Got everything switched back over to the old dirty originals and the sound was still low. So I started the fun with the sound boards.
Thanks for taking some time to look it over and think through fixes.

They’re actually wired in series (positive to negative) would switching to parallel (positive to positive) change the resistance to 4 ohm?

They were wired in parallel not series. You need to connect positive to positive and negative to negative.
If you have them wired positive to negative, they are cancelling each other out. - i.e. as one cone goes down, the other cone is going up. Both cones need to be moving in the same direction.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thruster-i-just-met-her-xenon-restoration-/page/7#post-6246193

This shows how they were prior to me taking them out. Showing them in series so that’s how I put them back. Circled the + markings
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But here’s the thing, I remember that the speaker on the left didn’t have sound. I pushed on the tabs and it would cut in and out. Before putting them back in after this low volume dilemma I resoldered the leads on the underside of the tab and got it working then put them back and soldered them in.
I bet when the speaker was cut out originally the sound was louder and now that I fixed the speaker and have them wired in series I’m losing my sound. I understand you lose power with ohms law when running speakers in series but it really didn’t cross my mind because I was putting things back to how they were before I did the tear down. This game was so hacked up everywhere else, why would I trust what was going on prior to breaking it down???
I’m going to switch the jumper wires tomorrow and report back!

Mmm, nope. They're wired in parallel. Both wires from the sound board are hooked up to one speaker, then two short wires connect the second speaker across it. The fact these two short wires are incorrectly crossed over doesn't make it serial.

BTW also try your old speakers just incase the replacements have poor performance.

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The originals are in there

I feel terrible spamming this thread with my sound issue, should’ve started I separate one.

Something more universal for Xenon, here’s the topper from CPR in case anyone is interested in getting one.

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They need to be in series to be correct. I have a Flash Gordon I restored and an original Xenon and they are wired in series.

Well for what it’s worth this is how it looked this morning
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Now it looks like this
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When I swap the wires on the right speaker I gained more low end than anything. Game is noticeably boomy-er.

I looked through about 50 archived xenon adds trying to find a picture of someone else’s wiring and timab2000 sold a game a while back that had the clearest shot and this is how his was wired.

Still wired wrong.

Here’s mine

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I wouldn't wire those 8 ohm speakers in series. Speakers electrical impedance characteristics are not flat line and changes over the frequency spectrum meaning you're affecting the current levels through each speaker when in series. This will degrade their audio range.
Wire those 8 ohm speakers in parallel so they get audio voltage/current swings as intended from the amplifier.

Did not catch they were 8 ohm, factory was 4 ohm in series.

My apologies, posting when tired not recommended.

Flash Gordon had two 8 ohm in parallel.

This is a project game that I never powered up but the soldering looks original. Orange to pos and white to neg on both speakers

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Two examples here of Bally soldering the orange Ground wire to the positive lug of the speakers, I find it amusing

If your two factory speakers were 4 ohms, I'm not surprised Bally took the safer route wiring them in series to save stressing the amplifier at the cost of audio range.

The original speakers were 4 ohms to make the sounds more clearer. Because the sound board was designed for an 8 ohm load it is necessary to put the 4 ohms in series to work properly. If you replace with 2 eight ohm speakers in parallel that translates to a 4 ohm load that will stress the sound board.

This switch is one finicky mofo. Any tips or tricks appreciated. I’ve been adjusting it for weeks. I replaced it with a new wire. Before, weak tube shots push back ok but fast ones would blast past the switch and wouldn’t activate. Now slow shots get trapped after the switch. I’ve been adjusting it and leveling the machine. Frustrating. Thanks all.

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Thanks Al, do you have any more info/recollection about this?

The Sounds Plus audio board uses a TDA2002 amplifier I.C.
Specs for the TDA2002 state it can drive loads down to 1.6 ohms. A 4 ohm load looks within spec of the amplifier.

A couple of the speaker pictures above show the speakers were wired in parallel from factory (well the soldering on the speaker lugs look original). I've also seen situations where single 6" 4 ohm speakers were retrofitted.

TDA2002_power_spec.png

I was adjusting mine the other day wondering if there is a way to fit an opto there. That would be a sweet fix/mod

That would be sweet. I basically know nothing/still learning but for what it’s worth I replaced my speakers with what was in when I bought it and wired the same. Sometimes I lose sound after the ball drains and the score is adding. I think it’s a switch problem. New on top.

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I wonder if Sonic could make a magnetic reed switch for it. Maybe more difficult with a metal ramp?

Okay so, that's not how that switch needs set up. It is indeed a pain to get right making your own but once you get it set up, you don't need to mess with it again.

Don't use hard piano wire, use the same wire that is on the coin mechs (It is indeed the same exact switch and wire as the coin mech). It also is bent awkwardly coming off the switch in around a 45 degree down, then a 45 degree horizontal (or as close as you can get it) to make the wire level with the hole. If you don't line it up correctly it will rub on the metal. Additionally, the wire needs to come out past the hole, sticking into the lane some, and go back out so you have just a hoop sticking out (like an inlane switch). Round it in a half moon so that a ball rolling backwards just rolls right by it. This prevents the hang ups you are seeing.

It looks like from your pic you are missing the lock washer/nut that keeps the wire in place. If you don't use the coin mechs, you could just swap out the coin mech switch with the ramp switch and then bend the wire how it is needed.

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Thanks Zablon I’LL give that a shot.

Kderrick Note: The one solution that worked for me, was getting a new long switch wire
----------------- and have it shaped like the oem design but, keep the end wire long so as to
----------------- feed into the tube. The ball never got stuck again.

Someone posted a pic of the original switch and how the wire is shaped somewhere in this thread back when I realized I was missing it.

Kderrick mrm_4 play_pinball Zablon

Yes we can - we can either use our universal ramp MRS right where the current switch is - IF the ramp is stainless right there (should be - need confirmation) OR we could put a tiny MRS on the tube that would fit the curve....it'd be rather simple....and no more hang ups!

matt
M&M Creations
"we don't touch your balls..."

I'm in if or when you make these.

Heck yes!!! That'd be awesome

So first steps...can someone take a magnet and confirm that the metal where that switch is, is indeed stainless steel...if so - then we have something already....check those riveted L brackets nearby and the metal switch 'covers' too - they look ferrous....otherwise - then confirm the O.D. (mm is best) of the tube...with that detail - we can modify what we have easily to fit the tube...

matt
M&M Creations

Sonic Ramp and switch covers are stainless/magnetic. O.D. On new tube from Marco is 1.5

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Sonic Ramp and covers are stainless/magnetic. Is O.D. Outside diameter or optical density?

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You got it..O.D. is the outer diameter...so precisely 1.5"...good deal...now Kderrick I need to be clear (my bad)...true stainless is typically austentitic or NOT magnetic..(good)...then there is stainless steel that is ferritic or magnetic (bad)....so 3 things...ramp (magnetic or not), L brackets (magnetic or not) and switch cover (magnetic or not)....let me know on those...

Matt

All three ARE magnetic. Ramp, L’s, and switch covers.

Ahh...the hard road...shoot - wish that ramp was not magnetic...so tube it is....we'll sit down tomorrow and see what we can make...it'd be a short MRS that would adhere, length-wise, to the tube - you can put it anywhere on the tube...and you'd simply solder splice to the current switch wires...and that'd be it...I'll get back with everyone tomorrow to see what we can do....and, for those not familiar with our products - we are very up front and open that they are not cheap...they are $30/each....so just want to be transparent to folks that haven't seen or purchased our products over the last 2 years....but you won't find a Pinsider that felt we don't deliver the goods!

Matt
M&M Creations

Restored a Kmiec post to its rightful home. Just because people can’t see it doesn’t mean I won’t know it’s there. Thanks @mrm_4!

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Well, we got it done - we have an MRS replacement for the tube entrance ramp !! It is a small self-adhering MRS that can go anywhere on the tube you prefer. The wires are solder-splice to the existing switch wires (which you can remove as well as it's cover!)- pretty simple install. Just PM me to place an order!! I hope to get a few orders so we can get some feedback for other owners.

Thanks!

Matt & Dan
M&M Creations

Some of you asked for pics of the MRS tube solution - here is a pic of the first 3 orders shipping today! Standard pinball for size reference....as you can see....small!

Matt
M&M Creations
"we don't touch your balls...."

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Thanks for posting im excited to try this out. Whats everyones approach to attach this to the tube?

Sonic maybe you can post an illustration of where this is supposed to attach? I know you wanted tube measurements, its not clicking to me as to where this goes.

Thanks

The MRS appears flat - but it is curved - that curve (the pics don't show the adhesive that I applied as well) fits the curve of the tube - lengthwise....so you'll want to stick the MRS - as close to the tube entrance as you can - anywhere you feel on the tube it looks good aesthetically....but remember it can go anywhere, more or less, on the tube....make sense? Then you simply solder-splice the wires into the old switch wires - the polarity is agnostic....

Matt
M&M Creations

Yep that helps!
I’m thinking right above the plate on the back side.

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That's a good place - but you may not want those plates anymore after you remove the old switch - the first plate hides the switch - which you will remove - the second covers up a benign connector...so underneath the LED strip could be good too....but be cautious of getting too close to magnetic things - like those plates apparently are!

Matt

Will that work there since it will be above the ball when it passes through? You also don't want to mess up the switch cover as these are hard to find in nice condition.

You bet....that's the very nature of the MRS! It has about a 8mm range to it for detection....

Matt

I’ll be tinkering with this after work!

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When you see the alcohol pad - you know it's about to get serious! Let us know...call with questions...I'm sure you get the idea and see that it can go in a few different places on the tube - so whatever works best - be sure to test before you stick!

Matt

My package was delayed. Hopefully get it tomorrow. Let us know where you put it.

Ok I had some stuff come up so I wasn’t home all evening til now. I found you can’t go directly underneath because of clearance for the ball.
So I’m between 7 and 8 o’clock if the bottom of the tube is 6 o’clock.

Works like a charm! I’m keeping the metal covers on too.

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Sonic thanks for considering this idea
play_pinball thanks for thinking to ask Sonic