X-Men (LE)
Stern, 2012
X-Men (Pro)
Stern, 2012You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider robt.
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Well crap. I've intentionally stayed out of this thread for fear that by reading it I'd *really* want to order one of these. The theme is already extremely appealing to me (even more so than Avengers would be) as I'm just a huge fan of X-Men. The possibilities with this theme are huge, especially with Magneto.
I'm also becoming a big fan of Borg. IM is one of my all time favorite pins.
This will be hard to resist.
Quoted from Eskaybee:RobT said:Well crap. I've intentionally stayed out of this thread for fear that by reading it I'd *really* want to order one of these. The theme is already extremely appealing to me (even more so than Avengers would be) as I'm just a huge fan of X-Men. The possibilities with this theme are huge, especially with Magneto.
I'm also becoming a big fan of Borg. IM is one of my all time favorite pins.
This will be hard to resist.
If this happens I will never leave your home. Rofl!
Quoted from Baiter:That's not the point... it's a flawed business model leaving customers unhappy and/or Stern losing profits. Removing production limits on the fully featured game allows everyone to buy it that wants one, and Stern keepss the profits rather than after-market sales on these artificially limited production runs. Adding a Premium model, or keeping the LE to cosmetic improvements is the only solution that benefits everyone.
That's a nice opinion, but that's all it is. Just because you think it's a flawed business model doesn't make it so.
Stern is a corporation. Guess what their number 1 priority is? That's right: profit. So arguing as though their business model is obviously flawed doesn't make sense. If they thought they could make more money by doing something else, including what you suggest, you can be sure that they would be doing it. Why wouldn't they? Just to screw with you?
Quoted from Baiter:they are fixated on milking the "Limited" thing at the expense of sales and customers.
Again.....why would they intentionally do this? They exist to make profit. What advantage is there to them to be fixated on the "Limited" thing at the expense of sales and customers?
You are making generalizations without knowing all the facts. Stern's business model may not be the one that you or I prefer, but it appears to be a conservative one that it working well for them. How many people had predicted their demise several years ago?
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:You are assuming that companies always will make the right decision to increase profits. Many times they don't and the business goes under or does not reach maximum profitability. It is a different opinion neither mine, Baiter's, or yours is fact just different takes on the issue.
I am making no such assumption at all! Companies make bad decisions. This is obvious.
The only assumption that I am making is that Stern is in business to make a profit. Since that is the case, my statement that *if* they thought his course of action would result in more profits for Stern, they would do it (if they felt the risk/reward was there). He was saying that they are dumb for not doing it because it is a FACT (as he phrased it) that if they did things as he suggested they'd make more money. I'm saying that isn't necessarily true.
Quoted from Baiter:RobT said:Baiter said:they are fixated on milking the "Limited" thing at the expense of sales and customers.
Again.....why would they intentionally do this? They exist to make profit. What advantage is there to them to be fixated on the "Limited" thing at the expense of sales and customers?
You are making generalizations without knowing all the facts. Stern's business model may not be the one that you or I prefer, but it appears to be a conservative one that it working well for them. How many people had predicted their demise several years ago?
Yea, Stern has been actively rebuilding their business the past couple of years, but I'd attribute their recent success to hiring back talent and choosing the right licenses. It's a fairly static customer base, so sales tactics are not nearly as important as it is to other industries.
Once they achieved strong sales again, they started to heed the calls to reverse their trend of cheapening the games, it's great progress. Now that all the Stern attitude has turned from "when are they going to fold" to customers putting a deposit down on a rumor of the next game, they are in a position unfamiliar to them for years.
But frankly Stern has been stumbling with the LE thing. Avatar LE wasn't even announced until the Pros shipped, which really ticked off some buyers of the Pro. TRON LE was such a huge success that after-market prices have jumped thousands of dollars... none of which Stern gets, leaving hundreds of customers that would pay Stern's TRON LE price today, but not the street price, but Stern has no way to fix it. Transformers LE they split into 3 versions, over-promised and under-delivered on a few functional items, again ticking off customers who pre-ordered the LE because they didn't get to see the final product before they had to pay. Finally they got everything right with ACDC.. 3 LE's 1 Premium, 1 Pro. Everyone who wants the full game gets it.
Then the VERY NEXT game they are rumored to toss out their only win/win premium-priced game model strategy in years, and the only complaint left with Stern is consistently people worried about getting burned on the Pro/LE strategy again. "Is the pro missing features the designer wanted, and is only in the LE" "Do I risk a pre-order without being able to see it first at risk of under-delivering". This what Stern's customers need to be worried about?
You have stated this very well I think, and I really don't disagree with much of anything that you wrote here. Like I said before, you are I may not like the business model/strategy, but I'm sure Stern has analyzed this and they believe that the way they are doing it is the best way to maximize profit.
Quoted from Erik:I disagree completely. The 400 Tron LEs were the best thing they could have ever done. It helped to instill the "gotta pre-order my LE or I'll miss out!" mentality for future models.
Bingo!!!
This is exactly what I've been saying. Add this to what Gambit said above about releasing multiple titles per year, and it makes sense (and is obviously working for them).
The Tron LE's didn't sell out immediately. There wasn't a huge demand for them from the very start, that came after the pin was released and people started to realize how good it was. So now people will have a stronger inclination to pre-order the next LE so they don't miss out. Exactly what Stern wants.
Did they leave some profit on the table by not making more Tron LE's than 400? Obviously. Hindsight is 20/20. But look what they did with AC/DC, they've made more of them in anticipation of higher demand. Looks like that's going to turn out good for them.
Quoted from Erik:meh, I'm over the LE discussion. let's see some pics!
+1!
I'm really pretty damn sure that I'm going to order an LE version of X-Men. Just too many things appeal to me about this, including the theme, the fact that it will be based on the comic (better art since they don't have to get approval for anything from the studio and don't have to have real people as part of the art) and that Borg is designing it.
My only decision will be what to move to make room.
Quoted from jackal2001:Shapeshifter said:
Somebody tell me if this thing will play fast, really fast??
Ya, I got mine yesterday and it plays super fast.
Seriously, are you in on this one?
Quoted from jackal2001:RobT said:jackal2001 said:Shapeshifter said:
Somebody tell me if this thing will play fast, really fast??
Ya, I got mine yesterday and it plays super fast.
Seriously, are you in on this one?
Of course I'm getting one. It is from Borg! My favorite designer.
Going for the Borg Trifecta. TRON LE, IM, X-Men LE.
Cool. I need to get IM back in my lineup in order to have the same Borg trifecta!
Quoted from bluevegas:RobT said:My only decision will be what to move to make room.
How about your MM into my game room
BZZZZZZZ!
Try again.
Quoted from Eskaybee:RobT said:bluevegas said:RobT said:My only decision will be what to move to make room.
How about your MM into my game room
BZZZZZZZ!
Try again.
NGG? I have room now
Quoted from markmon:txstargazer3 said:Coincidentally (?) that is the very date Jersey Jack has promised a major reveal on WOC ECLE. Spy vs. Spy?
So what, jj will show another video clip and a piece of one of the plastics? His updates have all been bummers. Too little too hyped.
LOL.
You definitely have to eat your words this time Mark!
Quoted from RC_like_the_cola:Looking forward to this one. I missed out by not getting a Spidey NIB and missed out on Tron NIB. I ain't missing out on this one. For me, it comes down to art at this point. Let's see them pics.
That's where I'm at. Definitely comes down to the artwork.
I'm optimistic about having new blood doing the rules.
Quoted from markmon:This thread totally amazes me. Stern has announced nothing. There's no guarantee that they are even releasing a new pin. Who knows. Yet everyone is convinced that someone "in the know" has "leaked" the inside info. No one has seen anything. No art, no playfield, nothing. And yet people are lining up to buy it? Debating over who is doing the code? Talking about translights? Wtf?
Are you serious?
Come on Mark, open your eyes! Let the information that is out their flow in!
How about a friendly wager? I'll be you a hundred bucks that X-Men is Stern's next pin and that Borg is the designer. And that there will be two LE versions and a Pro.
What say you?! 
Quoted from markmon:RobT said:markmon said:This thread totally amazes me. Stern has announced nothing. There's no guarantee that they are even releasing a new pin. Who knows. Yet everyone is convinced that someone "in the know" has "leaked" the inside info. No one has seen anything. No art, no playfield, nothing. And yet people are lining up to buy it? Debating over who is doing the code? Talking about translights? Wtf?
Are you serious?
Come on Mark, open your eyes! Let the information that is out their flow in!
How about a friendly wager? I'll be you a hundred bucks that X-Men is Stern's next pin and that Borg is the designer. And that there will be two LE versions and a Pro.
What say you?!
Why the hell would I bet? I didn't say "I know it's not xmen". I pointed out that nothing has been announced yet everyone is talking about the translites as if we have confirmations and pictures. Rumors may be true or they may not be. That's nothing to bet on or against (which was the whole point of my post). It's one thing to talk about rumors. It's quite something else to be taking preorders, talking about software folks, etc when nothing has been announced yet. That's all.
Dude, everyone is talking about translites because we basically *do* have confirmation that it will be X-Men. What we don't have is pictures. The rumors *are* true, and that is the point! And it most certainly is not to early to be talking pre-orders. I can even tell you pricing!
Quoted from mnpinball:Shapeshifter said:idtattoo said:I would expect 2-2.5months for the le. Mnpinball already said they are running le's first. I put my deposit in with gap yesterday on villains.
So, for those putting deposits down, what is the price??!!
No "official" word yet on price but contact your Dist as he would be your best informative answer.
Best answer is a few $100 under AC/DC LE. Preorder price on a first Dist order is your best price.
My deposit is in the mail for mine.
+1!
And people thought there was speculation and hype before?! Stern is getting better at generating hype with every new release.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:RobT said:I'm definitely in on this one, even without seeing the artwork.
The problem is without seeing the artwork, how would you know what edition to get? I'm a bit torn without cabinet pictures.
I don't know which one to get. All I know is that I'm going to get one of them!
Quoted from Rarehero:This is going to be like TRON LE - gone before the public even knows it exists.
There was plenty of opportunity for people to get Tron LE. It did not sell out immediately, distributors still had them months after it was released.
Quoted from markmon:I think the Tron's were all sold out, but that meant sold out from Stern to the distributors. From there, many distributors stocked them.
Exactly.
Quoted from Battery111:Ok, you guys and your hype got me to switch my reservation. Going good guys LE version now.
Why?
Quoted from gambit3113:I foresee people selling their rights to the Wolverine LE and switching to the Magneto LE. The sales numbers between the two so far are VERY disparate.
I don't read comics, so maybe that explains why I don't understand this.
When I spoke to my dealer, he said he expected the good guy/Wolverine sales to far outpace the villain/Magneto, and he hoped that Stern would not do an even 50/50 split because of this.
So why is it that the Wolverine will be the preferred model when we haven't even seen pics yet?
TF seemed to have no problem selling Autobots and Decepticon's pretty evenly.
Quoted from mnpinball:rai said:any details about the difference of LE from the pro?
Pro=no spinning magnet disc, no trolls, no 3rd moving ramp, no real backglass, no powdercoat trim, no shaker (although code will support it).
So a shaker will actually come pre-installed in the LE's?
Quoted from pmWolf:DougPiranha said:JJP has it right, LE = Fluff game should play the same
JJP has ZERO FREAKING OPTIONS if you want a pin that costs around $4k.
NONE.
Look, just pretend that the Stern Pro doesn't even exist. It'll make you happier.
Then, both companies have pins in the 6k range, and everything is fine.
Pete
Bingo!
Quoted from goodgameslover:DugFreez said:but if they would have had a premium...I probably would have went with it instead of the LE
I think Stern is leaving the premium for that exact reason. Many people would go for the premium. So they would be stuck with many unsold LE's. I read many times here that most would seem to go for a premium if it was available. So premium is a too big of a danger for their LE's it would seem to me.
And if there is an "unlimited" premium, many would wait for that to come out so they can see if the game is really that good. No more crazy rushing to get an LE, no then you can wait it out and wait for comments and reaction for the game. And should the game be a stinker most would not buy it and Stern is left with MANY unsold games. I think you can see why this could be a nightmare scenario for them.
Because for every Tron there is a TRS. Can you imagine how many TRS Stern would still have if they had a premium? Hell there are reports that there are still some unsold NIB LE's out there.
Just my 2 cents of course.
Ok, I could have written this post myself! Well, in fact, I have written pretty much the same thing several times before. Needless to say, I completely agree.
I do think Stern will still do Premium editions, but it will be on certain titles that they think are going to be huge sellers. They may be missing the mark on XM.
Quoted from Frax:smokedog said:Before people start poo-poo'ing the pro version I think you should probably play it before saying 'no way would I buy that', 'Costco version', etc. I'm sure lots of folk said the same thing about Tron Pro, only then complaining that Stern did not make enough pros!
The game play could be awesome in the pro, even without the toys! Look at TF pro. I think the game play of the pro is better than TF:LE.
Tron Pro/LE for all practical purposes have zero gameplay difference that matters.
Yes, I find it more fun to shoot drop targets than stationary.
What do you mean by "that matters"?
Have you played Tron LE and started End of Line (Daft Punk) MB? It's my favorite mode in the game, so not having that in the Pro would be a big disappointment to me.
Quoted from Frax:RobT said:Frax said:smokedog said:Before people start poo-poo'ing the pro version I think you should probably play it before saying 'no way would I buy that', 'Costco version', etc. I'm sure lots of folk said the same thing about Tron Pro, only then complaining that Stern did not make enough pros!
The game play could be awesome in the pro, even without the toys! Look at TF pro. I think the game play of the pro is better than TF:LE.
Tron Pro/LE for all practical purposes have zero gameplay difference that matters.
Yes, I find it more fun to shoot drop targets than stationary.
What do you mean by "that matters"?
Have you played TRON LE and started End of Line (Daft Punk) MB? It's my favorite mode in the game, so not having that in the Pro would be a big disappointment to me.
Am I walking around with the money to buy X-Men LE in my pocket right now? Nope. But I would be, because for a feature that lots of people say is really hard to get to, and frankly, doesn't really fit in with the pin IMO (I love the music. I love Daft Punk. I love what they did for the score....but where the heck does it fit in with the movie storyline? The 2 seconds they're onscreen?). I would have much rather they found some other way to work it in.....not that they had a lot of manuever room. They covered pretty much everything with the existing modes. Which...I guess, is kind of my point. DP multiball, thematically, is just tacked on there. The game isn't missing anything without it, IMO. And ultimately, that's why I say that it doesn't matter. (To me.) Wasn't DP multi added after the game was released as well? I can't remember a year back.
I don't get what the gripe is with Tron's rules, honestly. Maybe the LE needs some love to make it worth the extra money, but when I can find a pro that's set up right and playing nice...man, I love it. =\
I assume you meant Tron LE instead of X-Men LE?
Seems kind of shallow to just dismiss End of Line MB just because Daft Punk has a brief appearance in the movie? As far as it fitting in the story line, it is called End of Line MB. You do know where that fits in the story line, right?!
Once you've played End of Line MB and see how cool it is, knowing it is missing on the pro would be a pretty big deal to me.
Quoted from Pinchroma:rai said:So what exactly is the difference between a backglass and a translight?
Normally interchangeable. Some times it means printed on glass vs. something printed behind a piece of clear glass.
No.
They shouldn't be interchangeable at all. Backglass is using real glass, the translight uses ugly plastic that almost always has waves in it, and they do not light up as nicely as a true backglass.
Quoted from copperpot:RobT said:They shouldn't be interchangeable at all. Backglass is using real glass, the translight uses ugly plastic that almost always has waves in it, and they do not light up as nicely as a true backglass.
Backglass means Impossible to RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE to replace.
Translites can be easily reproduced, fairly inexpensively.
Of course translites can be easily reproduced fairly inexpensively. It's cheap crap!
Real backglass FTW!
Quoted from Gexchange:Sounds Like Tomorrow guys
LOL, you actually got a "thumbs down" on your post.
Quoted from Eskaybee:mnpinball said:Shaker is not included in LE.
For the sake if adding another mechanical toy the shaker was removed in the BOM.
I'm ok with that, I'd rTher the game be packed with features
Dealers are offering shakers at a discount with game purchase.Dam that kinda sucks. Guess we been getting spoiled with all the preinstalled shakers lately, seems kind of the new standard. That's gotta be one hell of a toy to rePlace a $150-200 part. How much are shakers these days anyway? It's been so long since I've had to order one lol.
If they make it up with extra programming labor hours I guess I'm good with it :/
What recent Stern LE's came with a shaker? TF? Tron LE did not come with a shaker.
Quoted from hank527:Is there going to be any market for an AC/DC PRO in 3 years? My guess is when these non LE pins fail to hold value that the operators are going to stop purchasing Stern pins, which is going to have a huge impact on future Stern sales.
Are there enough operators left to really have a "huge" impact on future Stern sales?
Quoted from badbilly27:Are you guys really surprised by a delay in release pics?
What delay? Stern has never said that pics would be released on a certain day or time. Are they milking it for all it's worth in keeping the hype going? Yep. I do think if they wait much longer, the excitement will die down and the release of the pics will almost be anti-climactic at that point.
I'd expect pics no later than Friday. And yes, I pulled that out of my arse.
Quoted from goatdan:RobT said:Are there enough operators left to really have a "huge" impact on future Stern sales?
Yes.
You are probably right, especially when you consider all the sales that go overseas.
Quoted from pmWolf:goatdan said:RobT said:Are there enough operators left to really have a "huge" impact on future Stern sales?
Yes.
I would love to see the numbers.
Just based on how many Stern pins that I do NOT see on route, and all the Stern pins that I KNOW are in personal collections....it seems like the home market is stronger.
Of course, I have zero proof, and I don't know if I am interpreting my experiences incorrectly.
Pete
I live in SoCal and there are very few pins on location out here. I'm lucky to have one place close to me that has 6-8 pins available. Other than that, you have to try real hard to find anything on location.
Quoted from riggy469:mnpinball said:Just got message from Stern the LE run is sold out.
Ok, I'm sorry, but that is just f$&@ing stupid.
Why?
Nothing surprising about this at all. It just means that Stern has sold them all to distributors. Call your distributor and you can probably still get one.
Quoted from marksf123:Where are the pics already...
I hope with all this hype we are not heading for a major letdown...
Like when Geraldo Rivera broke into that vault and nothing was there
or
when Evil Kineviel jumped the snake river
or
when whatever that TV program was where the last season was a dream
or
When you waste your time watching a David Lynch movie (or Lost) and the 1st hour seems really good and then after that it makes no sense
or
Watch 2 and 1/2 men with Ashton Kutcher
Classic!
Quoted from Rarehero:cscmtp said:I think the price will around $6400-$6700 depending on distributor
Geeeze...and you can't put in the f'ing shaker, Stern!?
Does your $8500.00 AFM come with a shaker?
Quoted from Rarehero:RobT said:Rarehero said:cscmtp said:I think the price will around $6400-$6700 depending on distributor
Geeeze...and you can't put in the f'ing shaker, Stern!?
Does your $8500.00 AFM come with a shaker?
Wacka wacka
Ask the new owner...
Congrats on the sale!
Quoted from zucot:Stern Facebook update - 'Today is a good day. Get Ready.'
Finally!
Of course chances are that I will be nowhere near a computer when the pics are released.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I'll mms ya...granted I'm near a computer too loo <img src="/bbpress/my-plugins/bb-smilies/pinside/icon_smile.gif" title="
Sweet!
I'd give you five thumbs up for your post if I could.
Quoted from turbo20lbs:Remember, the chase is always better than the catch. Let's keep our expectations low so we aren't too disappointed once it's unveiled.
Screw that!
This will be the best pin EVAR!!!!!!!!!!!
Quoted from cscmtp:Can't decide on Wolverine or Magneto, but definitely LE over Pro
I personally wouldn't consider going with a pro either, but it's good to see that so many are.
As for Wolverine or Magneto, easy decision for me: Magneto. But that's obviously a personal thing.
Quoted from cscmtp:When I gave my deposit I said I wanted Magneto (before pictures were released) but now I'm not so sure. And my wife like Wolverine better. Ughh, decisions decisions! Buts it will be my 1st NIB so I'm stoked!!
That's interesting, because I've read several posts by others saying the opposite: they had pre-ordered the Wolverine but after seeing the pics they wanted to change to Magneto.
Quoted from cscmtp:I'm going LE. Stern knows they need a big hit with WOZ coming out. Borg said he had more time to develop this pin than any he's ever worked on. I have to believe its going to be a great one so I'm all in for LE.
I'm with you on this. I know there were people who were let down/disappointed when the actual pics came out, mostly because of what many think about the two main character toys being too large, and the pf art being too scarce (I somewhat agree with that one), but overall, I'm very happy with what I've seen, and I am every bit as excited about getting this pin as I was before the pics were released.
Can't wait for Magneto to get here!
Quoted from pmWolf:I'm pretty sure that Tron DOES have Jackpot callouts. (That "Gem" sounding techno-lady says things like "Jackpot" and "Jackpot Achieved", I think. I'd have to play it to tell you for sure).
Transformers...no.
Pete
Indeed, she does say "Jackpot achieved". It's a terribly underwhelming callout for a jackpot!
Quoted from mnpinball:Quote me now, this one won't take a dip in price
Can I quote you now too?
Oh.....I just did.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Plus everyone ripped the Angus face and now everyone wants it back on the other tables. Just the usual forum hoopala...
Exactly.
Look, I think that Wolverine could look better, especially with regard to the claws, but good lord, its not going to be enough to keep me from buying the pin!
Quoted from TigerLaw:Hmm, that is not as bad as I thought it would be. Where would one make such a purchase? Is it special order per machine or do all Stern rails fit on all Stern machines? Thanks as always SealClubber!
I think you can still order a chrome replacement kit for Tron LE and that would fit. Try Terry. And I don't think it would be $500 either, but I could be wrong.
I wouldn't put a chrome kit on mine (even if I got Wolverine) because it is going next to my Tron LE. Need to change it up.
Also, I love the bright over the top/in your face colors of the Magneto version. Very appropriate for a comic based pin in my opinion.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:I like the magneto cabinet more and there are less of them.
Quoted from Baiter:First rule of pinball: It is not an investment; focus more on what you like rather than resale value.
My gut feel is that both will have very similar resale. Pinside has a slant toward Wolverine, but frankly most other forums I frequent are 50/50 split, with several leaning toward Magneto.
Agreed completely! I was starting to think I was making the wrong decision by going with Magneto since it seemed like everyone here preferred Wolverine...so I asked myself, briefly, if that meant it will be more difficult to sell a Magneto edition. Then I quickly came to my sense and realized that this is my first NIB pin, I'm going to get what *I* like better and will not be influenced by what others prefer. My preference in this case is the over the top colors and art of Magneto.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I love the art package of both LEs; I went with wolverine though cause I am a fan of xmen and always thought magneto was a weenie =\
That said, they better do full screen dmd.
I'm telling Michael to ship you a Magneto edition instead.
Quoted from mnpinball:DMD will be "full screen" Not split. Custom DOTS galore !
That's GREAT news!
Quoted from Eskaybee:Rofl! Bastard
In all seriousness; using ACDC as an example, I could care less which of the three versions I would buy. HOWEVER, if I were to preorder it, I would definitely want one that fit my collection and/or personality, not the one that I think will resell for the most.
I gave you a thumbs up for your post. Mostly because of calling me the bastard that I am.
Quoted from mnpinball:Nightcrawler trolls do more than just go up and down
No they don't.
.
.
(I'm saying that so you will tell me how wrong I am and will spill the beans and tell us what else they do in the process)
Quoted from Eskaybee:Aren't there some video modes to choose a points award or play the mode to earn a prize instead? Why not just follow that method.
Personally though, video modes take quite a bit of programming hours; would you want those hours allocated to a video mode or into the pinball code/rules?
I don't think the two should be mutually exclusive!
Quoted from turbo20lbs:"get it right" and "Stern", oxymoron of the decade?
No, not really.
Quoted from Gexchange:I think I will just put this here.
Nice! Magneto kicks ass!
Quoted from bballfan:I tried yellow rubbers on FT and they seem to be bouncier than red or black.It was difficult to catch the ball.
I thought yellow rubbers were less bouncy than almost any other color?
Quoted from gambit3113:You don't like the theme of X-Men, yet you are all over Resident Evil? That is odd to me. But I did grow up reading X-Men.
Funny, I thought exactly the same thing as soon as I read his post.
Quoted from markmon:So I havent viewed this thread in a while and saw 512 new messages since my last read. Read a few in order (512 or so ago) then jumped to the last page and noticed that its basically the same 512 messages later, even the same people
We will see you in another 512 messages then.
Quoted from Eskaybee:So a few weeks back my distributor said they were gonna do the full run of one LE then the next. According to that pic, looks like the magneto buyers are gonna get theirs first. Can anyone confirm/deny?
If this is true then that means I gotta go to Robs house again...and thats not a bad thing
Well, not a bad thing for *you*!
Quoted from sd_tom:Anyone else concerned with how close those Magneto Carts are to the wolverines.. seems like just a nudge away from some damage
As long as the Magneto's aren't damaged, no big deal.
Quoted from sd_tom:How do the slits in the disk not effect ball travel ? A lens?
It's possible that it *will* affect ball travel, just like it does on WW, NGG, and many pins that have a lower PF like Congo. At least this disc is up higher on the PF, so it isn't as big a deal as if it were lower and closer to the flippers.
For as much as people complain about AC/DC LE's having the lexan cleared over, the advantage is that there is no impact on ball travel.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I hope them nightcrawlers don't cause to many airballs.
I don't see that happening based on the way they are designed.
I'd be more worried about the two stand up targets by the Magneto lane.
Quoted from jarozi:Hmm, that looks like much more than a simple troll head / bash toy. What tricks could be up Kurt's sleeves?
I agree, there definitely looks to be some kind of hinge on it, but I still don't see how it would work.
I was hoping for a better angle of the ramp. I want to see where the hinge is and how far over it's going to go.
Looks like the spot lights will stay put on the LE's. With the photoshop pics it looked like they would be in the way of the ramp.
Edit: it looks like they just moved them to the bottom spot on the slingshot plastic.
Quoted from jarozi:The top 'hinge' may also not be a hinge at all, but just a channel that allows the face plate to actuate a switch on impact.
I think that's exactly what it is.
Quoted from jarozi:I think on the photoshops that spot light was on the corner of the sling plastic furthest from the player. In these pics it's now on the closest corner to the player.
Yeah, I edited my post. Looks like they just dropped it to the lower part of the slingshot plastic.
Quoted from c3trey:It's particularly cool that Hellfire and Brotherhood will allow you to choose from multiple villains.
I thought the same thing.
Quoted from TigerLaw:This is 100% how I feel about it. I really think the sound package, if it is above average to really good (both music and call outs) could push this game to instant classic level...this is also the area that concerns me the most as they have, literally nothing, to set the stage for either the music or call outs (which could be great or terrible...we shall see).
I also agree with this.
To me, what really makes Tron special is the sound package, and I think the same will hold true here. It can make or break the pin.
Quoted from Khabbi:Well, I searched around a little, and the music used in the Stern X-Men promo video IS from the movie X-Men first class! So my guess is that they will be using this soundtrack for the music on this machine, and if so I like it! Makes sense that they wouldn't try and do original music.
Here's the music used in the promo video, a song called "magneto" by Henry Jackman from the X-Men first class movie:
» YouTube video
I'd be very happy if they use that music!
Quoted from jackal2001:Its been discussed numerous times. All custom music.
Composed by who?
Quoted from BackFlipper:Is it just me, or does that look like a two-color DMD?
(I guess it's just red?)
It does look almost like two different colors, but I think it is really just different shades of the red.
Looks good!
Quoted from bemmett:Well as long as they hold up to their word just like the photo shoot......crap, guess next week it is.
Stern never gave a date that pics would be released.
Quoted from Donnyman:Its not a Buy It Now, yeah I know there are plenty of those Im talking an auction old school 1999 ebay listing.
It *does* have a BIN price at $7k, and the regular bidding auction has a Reserve price.
Quoted from Frax:My god, did they need the power of a thousand suns to light that thing? Jesus christ, is this like WoZ where there's no GI in it?
It's professional quality light. Glad to see they are using it. Makes the likelihood of the video being high quality much higher.
Quoted from Frax:Everyone was complaining about the harsh lighting in the promo pics...I'm no videographer but don't really see the diff with it being video versus stills. It's my personal preference, I'd like to see a more natural display of what the machine will look like. I understand that's not their intent, or even concern lol.
I'd still want to buy one even if the video is lit to the point of my corneas turning into eyeball marshmellows.
Actually I do agree with what you are saying in terms of much preferring to see what it would look like under more natural/realistic lighting conditions that the pin would be in while playing, but experience has been that when video is shot in that darker lighting, it tends to be of poorer quality with lots of video noise.
Quoted from pmWolf:I'm probably dreaming here....but don't you think the video can b edited in one day? That means it'll be up tomorrow, right?
I'm probably a bit optimistic, though...
Pete
Oh, I'm sure it *can* be. But I doubt that it *will* be.
But.....hope springs eternal!
Quoted from sd_tom:well either they get it out tomorrow or prob that's it for rest of week with the holiday? I know everybody in my office is pretty much taking wed-fri off.
Are they hiring where you work?
Quoted from Eskaybee:As July hits, the tension is mounting. We must have another update (sound, music, video, etc...) before we become pin cannibals and eat each other!
I agree, tension is mounting. I got a tracking number from my distributor today. I got excited, thinking I had tracking for my X-Men LE! Silly me. My speaker kit is being shipped that will go in X-Men. I just hope those speakers have a pin to put them in soon!
Quoted from TigerLaw:Last week JJ said we should wait a week before ordering our shaker motors, but did not say why that was. Has this reason been revealed?
I was thinking about this last night and was going to ask the same question but completely forgot about it.
Until now.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:I think we will have a video before the 4th is what i was trying to say.
That would make sense and be great timing.
Quoted from Frax:I think the lighting looks awesome, personally. If you can't stomach bright colors on a comic book pin...I dunno what to say. Go buy Batman.
You beat me to it, as this was the first thing that came to mind when I read Snowdale's criticism of the lighting. Yeah, it's very colorful......just like comics are.
Quoted from iceman44:Crap..........I would like something Evil as in Resident Evil or haunted or zombies or something different.......crap!
I think Xmen looks great....love the ramps and of course Iceman and that is probably what will make the difference for me versus grabbing an AC/DC....
No zombies for us until we get BHZA in 2015.
Looks great!
I'd like to hear more of the sounds/music though. Can't say I'm super excited about what I've heard.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:NO STEVE BLUM
Doesn't look like it.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:Dont get me wrong it looks aces but the voice of Magneto and Wolverine are very iconic. Oh well cant get everything in there still will be giddy as a Trekkie virgin when it gets here.
Pretty much how I feel.
Watched (listened) again, and I'm still a bit disappointed in the voice work that I hear.
Dots look great!
Quoted from TigerLaw:If the rule set is better than Tron's and the music is "almost" as good as Tron's . . . then this could be Stern's best pinball machine ever.
In my opinion it is a VERY tall order to have music be even "almost" as good as Tron's. Totally subjective, I know, but the music and sounds in Tron is simply phenomenal.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Tron's music is phenomenal. One of the many reasons that game is as good as it is . . . that was why I said it just needed to be "almost" as good. Frankly, the music on this XMen pin somewhat scares me since they had nothing to base it off of. I sure hope they spent some time on it as music for a pin is crucial in my view.
Agreed on all counts.
Quoted from pinballslave:I know where you're coming from, but like you say, totally subjective... personally I much prefer the dark industrial tribal tunes of Tranformers...
Haven't played TF, but: based on the movies and videos I have watched, I agree that the sounds on TF are absolutely superb! Definitely on par with Tron. So obviously it isn't impossible to keep the sounds on par with Tron.
Quoted from markmon:In fact, I think this will feel more like an Iron Man with a third flipper than tron.
Funny, I thought the exact same thing.
Gee, maybe that's why he said it looks like it will be "quite a bit deeper than TRON".
Quoted from gambit3113:I have a digital caliper and will be getting dimensions (sure it is the same as TRON LE) and under PF pics to Kerry for a Mantis Protector, as soon as I take delivery of my XMLE. I know I am very early in the line of GEX's allotment, so hopefully I can get it to him before anyone has to worry about wear.
Awesome. Thanks for doing this!
Quoted from Wamprat:It would be great to see a video of a actual game being played on this to get a feeling for all the shots, sounds, modes etc. The video was well produced but didn't show what I really wanted, ie the game being played with everything interacting together.
The game looks great and I want to commit to purchase but I really want to see it in action.
Do not ever expect to see this from Stern. And for good reason imo. The video did a great job of showing us what there is to shoot for, how many modes there are, features, toys, etc. They need to leave *something* as a bit of a surprise. I'm glad that we got as much as we did from that video. It was great.
Quoted from marksf123:Just wondering if anyone canceled their order after the release of the video.....
Not a chance! Even though I wasn't excited about some of the voice work that I heard, like Eskaybee said, that was without sound effects or music, so I think we need to hear the voices in the context of the game to make a conclusion on that issue.
Either way, everything else in the pin looks great to me. Lots to do, lots of modes, cool features, and it looks great too. Can't wait to get my Magneto.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:I was told just now it is Steve Blum.
Very interesting. In a good way.
Quoted from pmWolf:I guess I get to be Mr. 3000....
3001
I think it's perfectly appropriate that the OP got to be number 3k.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Not a huge difference in Tron. Just the lighted ramps really and a very slight code difference (oh, and drop targets that actually make it slower than the pro).
I agree that the drops do make it a bit slower than the pro (and more difficult to get the ball to ricochet into GEM) but......I'll take real drop targets every single time when given the choice!
Quoted from DugFreez:It doesn't even seem like that long since the X-Men rumors were starting to get solid. What was it about 6 weeks ago? The wait isn't seeming very long to me at all.
Exactly.
I mean I want mine asap too, but good grief, we've not been waiting long at all.
Quoted from mnpinball:Should here something Tuesday/Wed. Games should start filtering out in the next day or so.
Sweetness.
Quoted from AkumaZeto:I am almost positive PBL shakers are not from stern and of his own source. I know the pcbs are 3rd party units.
That's interesting. Why bother though? The price is the same as a Stern shaker.
Quoted from vislor:You can also look here to see this: http://sternpinball.com/Service/bulletin/-178-the-s-a-m-cpu-board-system-with-new-usb.aspx -- part numbers for the XMen CPU are the same as TF and not ACDC.
Nicely done good sir.
Quoted from TomGWI:MM - ball is in scoop when trolls pop up. During multiball trolls alternate after hit. could send ball in the air.
It happens fairly regularly during "smack a troll" or "troll madness" MB when the troll pops up just as the ball is going over the top. Balls can hit the glass.
Quoted from Gexchange:I just got My Allocation numbers for this week! They are supposed to start shipping Thursday and Friday!
Awesome!
Quoted from musketd:My game should be here this Friday
Derek
Sweet. Which model did you order, and who did you order from?
Quoted from Drano:My XM is HERE!!!!
Well, sort of. Just got the word that my distributor (who is about 10 minutes up the highway from me) has my pin. Just gotta go up there and pick it up.
Unfortunately, I cant get a van and head up there for a day or two. ARGHHHHHHH!
Make it happen!
Quoted from DugFreez:The whole game looks to be "Magneto: The Pinball"
Glad I got a Magneto version then!
Quoted from DugFreez:I'm hoping and expecting better, but to be honest I expected opening day software to be better than what the clip shows and really can't imagine why someone would paise the sound or DMD animations from watching that clip.
I guess I'm a boob then, because the DMD looks great and I love the sounds too.
Quoted from DugFreez:As far as sound goes...You didn't think it was a bit lacking to be "the biggest sound package in a pin ever!"?
Methinks you had unreasonably high expectations and you are expecting to see/hear more than you are going to from a video posted by someone recording their first game ever played on the pin.
Quoted from DugFreez:That very well could be. I do have high expectations for the game. I'm a hugh X-Men fan and basically went into financial panic mode to raise the money to buy this game. A lot of ebay and craigslist selling made it happen.
I have also never had a newly released game and I have never followed a new release like I have this one. I have heard many times before of early software, but I have never delt with it first hand as an owner.
I bought my BSM NIB in 09. So by the time I bought it the software was quite a way along. I did go back and downgrade to early versions of it's software just to check it out for a few games. I noticed a lot of changes, but had no worries because I knew how well the software had been developed since the games release.
I also loved having a game that was still getting updates. It was like an early Christmas present when a new Spidey update would get posted. What I am afraid of now is long delayed updates that may never make it out (AC/DC, Transformers, Tron...). I have to say, AC/DC and even Tron wouldn't make me too nervious, but with no Lyman I have a fear of no updates or at least not enough updates.
So I'm in for the game...I was just expecting more from v1 (or v1.1 as it is) or at least expecting more than I saw in the video.
It's all good. I understand some of the concerns, and I'm not saying that you are being completely unreasonable by any stretch. Some skepticism is fine....even healthy.....but don't put too much emphasis on just this video, keep the expectations in check, and keep an open mind.
I'm pretty nervous about it myself since it is my first NIB purchase. I like what I see so far, and I'm really glad that the voices sound a lot better than what we heard in the Stern video.
Quoted from sd_tom:It's just doing the same complaint repeatedly that's getting a little tired
Exactly. Just like AlexLevy's never ending criticism of the "Fischer Price" toys.
Quoted from DugFreez:I guess you can't really blame Stern because they didn't make any of the "biggets sound package ever" "running on the AC/DC boards with more memory" "Same voice actors as the Wolverine and the X-Men animated series" "More time spent on this game than any other at Stern" claims. It seem that they have had folks with "insider" information leak stuff that just doesn't look to be true.
I'm sure it will shape up and get better, but saying it's great now just seem like folks are trying to fool themselves into being happier with their hard earned purchase than they really are...or should be. I'm in for this game and really hope I love it. I plan on it being a keeper. I don't feel like any of my criticisms have been bashing the game. I guess I'm just dissapointed that it looks like a lot of this "insider info" was bunk and concerned about what will get fixed, added and what I will just get used to.
You continue to prove with your comments that you have expectations that are too high and will not be met. Do I believe you when you say "I'm in for this game and really hope I love it"? Yes, I do. But based on the types of things that you keep repeating, I'm pretty sure that you won't. You seem to have a pretty specific idea of what you expect from this game and it doesn't seem that it's going to be exactly what you want. You've already set yourself up for a let down. You are already complaining of what you believe to be "broken promises" based on what "insiders" have posted! Seriously?
Quoted from DugFreez:I have found it humorous to see who the Strern / X-Men fanboys are that give me and others thumbs down for making critical observations of the game. Strangely enough it was folks that have been dishing "insider info" that looks to have been a bunch of blow. I will know to take their post with a grain of salt from here on out.
LOL.
You proved my point again while I was posting!
Edit: by the way, if you are referring to AkumaZeto (Ben) as a "Stern fanboy" that may be one of the funniest things that I've ever heard! (I saw he gave you a thumbs down for one of your posts).
Quoted from DugFreez:Come on. Don't compair me to him
LOL! That *was* a low blow, and uncalled for, wasn't it?!
Quoted from DugFreez:Come on. Don't compair me to him.
OK...I'm done complaining (for now anyway). One of the things I have really looked forward to about getting a newly released pin is looking forward to the updates and enjoying the game as it changes, evolves and gets better. I kinda lost site of that and went into "I'm scared I will be dissapointed" mode.
I don't think the game is as doomed with me as you have spectated. I'm sure even when it is finished code wise there will still be things that I would like differently, but I'm sure that could be said with any pin. I'm looking forward to getting mine, discovering what it has to offer and enjoying it for a long time.
Thanks for the shake and the "get a hold of yourself" slap in the face.
» YouTube video
I'm really happy to see that you took my post in the spirit in which it was intended!
Quoted from pmWolf:Holy crap...I've seen nearly half an hour of footage, and no Nightcrawlers yet!
For such a devoted mech, that is one SUPER-RARE mode!!
Loving the GI and DMD still...pumped to get this next week, and I'm looking forward to the inevitable code updates!
Pete
Yep, I haven't seen Nightcrawlers once yet in any video either. Wonder what is going on there? May need updated code to fix this. Yesterday.
Quoted from Av8:Time now for a brief interruption of Xmen Pinball. Girls of Comicon.
» YouTube video
Best post in this entire thread!
Quoted from RyanClaytor:For what it's worth, here's a longer video from the X-men Pro they've got set up at Comic-Con right now. I punched-up four games for my step-father-in-law (i.e. this is NOT me playing...haha). However, this video should give a nice and long (11 min) look at the game.
» YouTube video
Have a good one, guys!
Ryan Claytor
Elephant Eater Comics
http://www.ElephantEater.com
Love the way they use "X" symbol for "Xtra Ball". Kind of obvious, but still cool.
Quoted from jackal2001:Yes I have my game and have been playing it. Seems to have some software bugs where the balls come out of the magneto lock and sometimes the magnet doesn't catch them. I need to go over the pin tomorrow but it has been a long day and time for bed.
Very cool, congrats Jason!
Quoted from jackal2001:Speakers from FF will need to be updated with a new wiring connection. It doesn't connect via z-clip anymore. He is working on it.
Shit!
That's what I get for buying the speaker kit ahead of time. 
Quoted from Gexchange:WOOOHOOO! I got it done!
Game Exchange Of Colorado Shaker Motor kit for Stern Pinballs Special! $175 Shipped FREE to Cont USA!
Full Shaker Kit Compatible with the below games
Elvis
Elvis Gold Edition
Spider-Man/Black Spider-Man
Indiana Jones
Batman/The Dark Knight
CSI
24
LOTR LE
NBA
Big Buck Hunter Pro
Iron Man Pro
Avatar
Avatar LE
Rolling Stones Pro
Rolling Stones LE
TRON Pro
TRON LE
Transformers Pro
Transformers Combo LE
Transformers Decepticon LE
Transformers Autobot LE
AC/DC Pro
AC/DC Premium
AC/DC Back In Black
AC/DC Let There Be Rock
We believe X-men, We are told its wired for it, Checking on Software to be sure first before I bet my life on it.
Kit includes:
Shaker motor with mounting bracket and wiring harness.
PCB board
Hard plastic cover
Mounting hardware
Cable ties
Cabinet Harness
Instruction sheet
Mounting template
Great deal, but I'm astonished that we aren't even sure that XM will support a shaker!!
Quoted from jackal2001:Ball times are very very short. Game is really really fast.
I'd be lying if I didn't admit that this is a bit of a concern for me. How short are the ball times? Any pin that you can compare it to in that regard? Iron Man for example? It'll kind of suck if my family and non-pinhead friends get overly frustrated with XM because of "very very short" ball times.
Based on some of the videos I've seen, this does look like it could be the case.
Quoted from SealClubber:I PMed Robin already to ask him to add LE to the archives but haven't heard back. He usually has it done the same day. He must be pretty busy right now trying to catch up on work after the vacation. Europeans usually take their 30 days off all at once as opposed to us Americans who typically divvy it out thru the year.
Some of us Americans don't get 30 days off in a year. 
Quoted from TigerLaw:And in our profession...what's a vacation? They have those?
Exactly.
I swear, I feel like going on "vacation" isn't even worth it. It actually causes more stress than it relieves, especially because of all the fires that need to be put out upon return.
Quoted from gearheaddropping:I had a chance to run a few games through the Magneto LE yesterday.
The Magneto LE is a good looking game. The artwork on the sides and backglass is a nice mixture. I agree that there seems to be much more clear-coat on this playfield than previous Sterns. The central portion of the playfield only had a few clear coat imperfections. The shooter lane was heavily cleared.
The two main figures actually fit well and are not too big in my opinion. Its pretty obvious that there was manual "routing" work under Wolverines left elbow to prevent stuck balls. The plastics were a bit disappointing as they were fairly pixilated. I would hope for this kind of price and today's printing technology they could at least turn them out in higher resolution for future titles. I really think this would make a nice touch that wouldn't cost much at all. Its a pet peeve of mine.
The game plays pretty fast. I am not like many of you who think the faster the better, but if that's what you crave, this game is for you. In 10-12 games, I had two glass smacks so the game really moves around in the center especially. Between the two magnets and the spinning disc in the middle, there is a ton of randomness. The disc decal is fairly abrasive so as the magnet releases, the ball really gets thrown off in random directions - including the upper lanes. Only had one SDTM so this doesn't seem to be an issue.
I like the layout as there is a fair amount to do. I scratched the surface with the modes and anticipate that the game is fairly deep. The Magneto multiball is not too hard to achieve. The intro to it is decent but not over-the-top. I was really hoping for something that topped LIS. I was able to hit modes for Gambit and Juggernaut, although I did not get very far in them. We never once saw the Nightcrawler toys until the game was complete where they both popped up.
The sound effects and music are very good. Stern has done a good job with the sync of the sounds with the magnet action. The callouts were not my cup of tea. Very basic and repetitive with a fairly amateur feel to them in terms of production. I thought the Wolverine callouts like "Watch it Bub!" were a bit silly and repetitive, but maybe its just because I don't understand the "tongue and cheek" nature of the version its based upon.
The light show made good use of the color changing LED's. Like AC/DC the color can change in an instant and really increase your blood pressure. I think that this effect is very well executed by Stern and I really like how it is incorporated. Overall, one of the best things to come along in pinball in quite awhile.
The dots were decent. I can't rave about them, but I can't knock them either. Definitely more custom and not the usual digitized movie clips of late from Stern. The floating balls animation showing the number of locks is a neat touch. The Gambit and Blackbird animations also seem nice, but again, nothing we haven't seen from other Stern and B/W games.
So, that is my basic review after playing only a handful of games. Xmen fans should rejoice as it looks like Stern has done you proud. I really need to play it more before I can determine if I really want one.
This game I played had JJP Invisiglass on it which really made the playfield pop. Even with the Invisiglass, there was still glare to be seen so it (or PDI) is really a must IMHO.
BTW, I have LOTR and POTC in my collection and am a former owner of WPT and WOF for those who might want to know.
Thanks for the review. Sounds objective in that you point out the good, not so good, and bad.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Sorry if I missed it in a previous post, but XMLE production is on hold ATM?
No
Quoted from turbo20lbs:Lol you guys crack me up. All games dimple with a metal bearing flying around on it. Dimples don't "spring back"! The PF gets to the point there's so many dimples on it, that you no longer see individual dimples as easily on the PF as it was when it was brand new.
Exactly.
Quoted from copperpot:Agreed, stacking in general is a pretty 'essential' feature in my mind.
I agree as well.
I'd be surprised if you can't stack. You can stack in most of Borgie's other pins, including IM and Tron, his most recent releases.
Quoted from gambit3113:First impressions after a handful of games - fun. Really fun. Hectic. Love the shots. Left orbit through the pops to the right flipper, to Storm ramp is fast and awesome. Loaded all four balls into the Magneto lock on my second game and got the full Multiball going. Fast and furious.
My Wolverine registers hits like a champ. Wolverine's voice is much better and scruff in person. I have sound from all speakers - sorry Tat and CG.
Thanks for the first impressions Gambit! They seem to match what others are saying, including Drano's recent post. Seems to be a consensus that it is fast and furious- no surprise there based on watching the videos. Just hope that I don't feel that there is too much randomness to it.
Quoted from gambit3113:I finally got Nightcrawler.
How do you get Nightcrawler?
Did you confirm that it is *only* a random award from the scoop?
Thanks for the detailed posts on the rules.
Quoted from gambit3113:I would say he is about the same rarity as getting the Extra Ball on TRON through the Flynn scoop. It isn't unheard of, but is not common by any means.
Ha, the irony: When Eskaybee was here playing my Tron LE he had an Extra Ball awarded from the scoop! I about crapped my pants!
Frankly, if Nightcrawler really turns out to be as rare as Extra Ball being awarded from the Tron scoop, that is way too rare for my taste. Not even close.
Quoted from Cobray:You can, but it doesn't seem to make a difference in actual gameplay on Tron IMO.
Without question, I completely agree with this. No difference at all. I cranked mine all the way up to 50% and noticed zero change.
Quoted from c3trey:ou can't start heroes or villains until you play Mags once, as Gambit reported. I found the lanes worked the same way he explained.
Wolverine multiball doesn't seem to exist yet or has some requirement that's not communicated. I couldn't start it no matter what I tried.
Stacking: basically, none. Once a mode is started, villain or hero, you can't make progress towards anything else except lanes and locking balls towards Mags. Hellfire hits don't count, character shots don't progress, etc. This goes for heroes, villains, and (I think) multiballs.
There isn't mode progression memory that I could find. If you start Cyclops and make three shots, you start over the next time. (And I'm not sure he's complete-able in the current code. It seems that it only registers shots after the spinner has come to rest first, which can't happen 9 times in the time given. Holding the ball right there and pushing it through, I couldn't complete it in time. Maybe other shots start to qualify, don't know.)
Starting all of the heroes, but not completing them, doesn't qualify the mini-wizard.
I'm not going to overreact, but all of those rules suck.
Quoted from gambit3113:The theme is integrated way better than anything since LOTR, in my opinion.
Anything since Tron LE you mean?!
Quoted from gambit3113:Maybe. I just don't know that theme well. I never saw the original, and only caught parts of the second one on cable.
Either way I agree that LOTR integrated the theme extremely well. I'm glad to hear that the XM theme appears to be very well implemented too
Quoted from Khabbi:Here' some video I shot of a quick game.. this was my 5th or 6th game on the machine, so I'm still trying to get familiar with the shots.
Video was shot with Jersey Jack "invisiglass" installed also.
» YouTube video
I agree with others, best gameplay video we've seen yet! Great quality, and the Invisiglass is sweet. You need to add one of Kim's glare guards though.
Quoted from DugFreez:Or better yet, a Pinball Pal glare filter if you can find one.
I'll take the glare guard.
Quoted from goatdan:As for the comments from someone about making the wizard mode obtainable, I like it when they give you certain goals that you can sometimes obtain, while still giving you nearly impossible goals for those 'just in case' type scenarios. Iron Man is a great example - play good on a single ball, and you open up Do or Die, an intense very mini wizard mode. Play good for all three balls, and you open up Jericho. Both Do or Die and Jericho are relatively obtainable, I'd guess that I get to one or the other every 15 or so games.
But, there is still the goal of getting to Do or Die multiball. And for that, I doubt I'll ever see it. But that's cool - it gives me something to keep coming back for. On X-Men, I wouldn't mind having a mini wizard mode for starting all the Heroes, one for starting all the Villains, and then a massively cool one for accomplishing both of those in one game.
Well said. Iron Man is a great pin, and most of its greatness lies in its simplicity in terms of rules, combined with short ball times and a killer sound package.
I always liked the fact that you could have one great ball and have a shot at Do or Die for big points, kind of a mini wizard mode, then the more generic Jericho wizard mode, and then the very hard to reach Do or Die MB wizard mode..
Quoted from markmon:Wtf. Are you guys crazy? There are almost no similarities with the game and tspp. This is a fast and furious game. Simpsons is slow stop and go with almost no flow.
I'm with Mark on this one.
And comparing XM to TSPP is definitely not a good thing for me since I don't really care for TSPP.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Stupid Invisiglass. Wish I did not get it on my Tron. Now I have to buy it for the other games. : )
That's what happened to me.
Quoted from markmon:What's tspp equivalent of the upper ramp? The difference is that every shot in tspp stops the action. Those shots don't exist in xmen. Everything keeps moving.
Thank God for that!
Quoted from taylor34:Starting with the same sequence though will get very old though, any game that starts with the same mode every time suffers from this. That's why I think it needs to change, as it was a big negative on games I've played with it (BF, RS, GNR, JP, etc).
RS does *not* start with the same mode every game!
Quoted from gambit3113:After considerable thought and a whole lot of games, I have reached the conclusion that this game is a 90/100 as it is (code not withstanding). Wolverine dominates too much of the PF, though. Someone either needs to create a toy that is smaller at the PF (the physical size of the toy isn't the issues - it is the width of his waist at the PF), or I might pull him off and start toying around with different target options. If Wolverine was just a stand-up target there at the front, it would be perfect. I think you could cut his size by 25%-33.3% and make the game far more balanced.
As it is, you start and have to play Wolverine over and over. Without stacking of the Hero modes, this can get old. With the current code you can play an already lit Hero mode over and over and over. You want to play the Beast mode? You are going to smack Wolverine so many times on the way to lighting Beast, that you will start Wolverine 4 times and have to go through that mode over and over.
I don't want to give the impression that Wolverine is too big and dominating to be a fatal flaw in the game design. I am being very nit picky here. I am saying that the game design is really, really good as it stands. But to be absolutely awesome, I think Wolverine needs to be addressed either through code or reduction of target size.
I've spoken to others with the game, and I think that there may be a consensus growing that Wolverine is a bit too large and takes up a bit too much space on the PF.
I foresee people coming up with other solutions if feasible.
Quoted from Donnyman:both, I pre paid for joey's PDI non glare glass and getting the shaker motor next week.
Man, if I had to choose between one or the other it would be a very close call. Really not sure which one I would choose.
Quoted from pmWolf:Holy crap....now that puts some pressure on me!
My thoughts on my top 5...if you care:
Indiana Jones (Wms) is my favorite...but it was also my first pin, and I'm a sucker for the theme. Love the ruleset, sounds, dots, and theme integration.
I've been playing TRON LE a ton. Again, theme integration is fantastic...love the music. Gameplay is fast and just feels right! I keep coming back to this one again and again.
Spider-Man: Cripes, love this game, too. Spectacular flow. Tons of movie callouts.
ToTAN: Gorgeous game, and I really, really like John Popadiuk's stuff. I love magnets, and JPop throws some really inventive stuff into his games. (The spikes on ToTAN? Disappearing Genie Magnet? It's not the deepest game, but the toys are spectacular. I have other games to play if I want something deep...this one is just a quick blast).
#5...oh man, there are so many games I could put at #5, and feel completely justified in doing so. Medieval Madness (Great humor and shots) probably gets the nod for now, but honorable mentions to TSPP (unreal ruleset), BBB (best looking game ever), JP (For me, the best Data East), Monster Bash (Theme, Humor, Flow), and Centaur (years ahead of its time!).
Pete
Nice reviews of your faves Pete!
Nice to see Tron LE near the top. I can't get enough of it yet either.
Completely agree about the theme integration. One of the best ever in that regard.
Quoted from eggbert52:Are people allowed to say who they bought the game from? I think that would certainly narrow down most of the problems. My guess is that people bought them from a distributor that may have had the best price but that doesn't necessarily have the best reputation.
Huh? 
Quoted from gambit3113:That is actually a good idea.
Terrible idea actually. You are going to have wax smeared everywhere.
Wouldn't even consider it.
Quoted from pmWolf:I am never, ever, ever going to reach any of the wizard modes on this game.
Starting two villains in a single game is a phenomenal rarity...much less completing their modes. On top of that, I can get two or three heroes started if I'm having the game of a lifetime.
I love the game, but the overall goals are extraordinarily unattainable.
With Magneto HAVING to start things off...you are likely into ball two or three by the time the MB begins. That doesn't leave a lot for you to complete all the hero and villain modes.
Pete
That sucks.
Quoted from Rarehero:Yup...it's that "story progress balance" that needs to be dialed in to feel organic and reasonably achievable. Hopefully they'll dial that in as they keep working on the updates.
-They'll have to kill the mandatory Magneto rule, or at least provide an option to turn it off.
-They'll have to kill repeating already played modes, or at least provide an option
-Some mode stacking needs to be implemented
-Good and Evil wizard should be obtainable by playing all modes but not completing them
-Ultimate wizard should be obtainable by COMPLETION of all modes.
Sometimes "less is more" ...by stuffing this game full of so many modes, the game has been made to be quite a daunting task. Software tweaks can make it work! Go Waison and Lonnie and the other dude who's name I can't remember right now!
I agree with every thing you've said above.
The more I read other peoples comments regarding the rules, the more concerned I'm getting. I just don't know if an update is going to be enough of a change to fix all this stuff. We are talking major revisions/additions here.
Quoted from Rarehero:Not really - the suggestions I outlined don't require tossing out what's there. What I've seen so far on the game is REALLY COOL. I think the "bones" are good...cool modes, cool DMD animation, great use of the characters and shots...it's clear these guys really "get" X-Men, and that's great!
Changing the repetition rules and completion for wizard seems fairly simple.
Making the mandatory Magneto an option wouldn't be a major change. It would just start the game with the X-Men hero modes ready to go, and Magneto's lock target rules would have him ready to go as well.
It's clear you can qualify the Villain during a Villain mode, so - why not be able to start another Villain battle at the same time? That doesn't seem like a radical change...and plenty of games keep track of multiple modes running at once. It's beneficial to the player in 2 ways - one shot can count for multiple things/scoring, and it keeps the game progressing rather than making you do one task at a time. It's a pure win to add stacking!
Honestly I think these requests are very minor in the big picture!
I'm not saying that it would be *difficult* to do, what I'm saying is that some of the suggested changes are major in terms of being very different than what the programmers apparently had in mind in terms of how the rules would be.
When was the last time that Stern released an early update that had major changes in terms of the rules with regard to things like stacking and having to complete a multi-ball mode before starting other modes?
Do we think that this is a case where Stern is reading this forum and realizing "oh, shit, people don't like having to start MB first, or the lack of stacking, so we better change that immediately"? If that's the way they wanted it, that's the way that it would have been from the start methinks. I think if they are going to make some of these changes that you recommend (all of which I completely agree with), it will be quite some time before it happens...(think Tron, which we are still waiting for.....although I'm very happy with what's there now).
This is my first NIB, so my comments are based simply on reading threads about other newly released Sterns over the last couple of years. If there are examples of early code revisions/updates that had major changes to the rules I'd love to hear about them so I can be more optimistic about what will happen in the upcoming update(s).
Greg, it would seem that you accidentally argued *against* the chances of these changes being made by bringing up what happened with Transformers. 
Quoted from Rarehero:No, because I think they are human beings capable of learning from their mistakes.
I love your optimism Greg!
Quoted from Rarehero:Here's what the Stern guys need to really understand. Making changes that make the story progression easier does NOT make the game easy. I submit that it will probably still be nearly impossible for most people to get to Wizard modes on this game....the challenge is in the physical nature of the playfield. Changing how things progress won't change the physical nature of the game or the ball times. This is why I've always said that rules & playfield sync is what makes a game great! That's why "simpler" games like Tron and Ironman have found huge followings. If a game kicks your ass fast, you don't need as much rule depth for a super fun game. TSPP and LOTR work because you CAN keep the ball in play for 45 minutes - and the rules still allow you to discover new things along the way.
Since X-Men's physical design is challenging and ass-kicking, in order for the rules to sync with that, it doesn't make sense for there to be content that's impossible to see. I haven't seen Portal on Tron yet - but OOOOH, it's within my grasp! If I can only get through 3 or 4 (of 15) modes on X-Men...if I'm lucky...what's the point of all that content in there!?
Stop already. You are making too much sense.
Quoted from Rarehero:...and I haven't even played it yet! LOL ...hopefully that will change by the end of this week.
Same here.
We don't need no stinkin' pins to have an opinion!
Quoted from fattrain:(p.s. with how much they monitor the forums, something tells me their hearing us loud and clear)
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but they heard people loud and clear regarding Multiball progression in TF, but nothing was done about it.
(I need Rare Hero's optimism)
Quoted from Rarehero:...YET.
Exactly but that goes back to my original point which was when was the last time Stern released an early update that made changes to the rules similar to those that you are suggesting? How long has TF been out again?
Quoted from Eskaybee:It's funny how we always complain about OP progression memory, yet the other day I had completed every mode in the game except Megatron. And on ball 3 I earned 2 ebs but still couldn't complete Megatron (which is normally easy). I think I tried Megatron 4 times that game, just choked each time.
Back on topic; I get my XMLE thurs...I hope it works
I'm surprised that you didn't take that opportunity to agree with him that Tron is too easy given how you got to Portal on my Tron the last two times you've been here!
Quoted from pinballslave:Sorry to remain off topic... I still haven't figured out how to beat Megatron... sometimes I beat him, sometimes I don't... but when I do, I've no idea how I did it!! OP is easy to figure out, but with Megatron, you hit Megatron, then all shots come on... start picking them off and then they suddently all go out apparently for no reason, then hit Megatron again, and they all come back on again... repeat with no apparent pattern and you come out a winner or a loser when down to one ball!! Clearly I'm missing something in the strategy in how to kill him!!
Back on topic: I'm still on the fence with XM...
I'm new to TF, but I notice the exact same thing with Megatron.
Quoted from TomGWI:If this is true, and OP MB has progression, you just made my day.
Made my day too, especially since I just picked up a Decepticon last week for a song.
On topic: my Magneto will be delivered tomorrow!
Quoted from pmWolf:3) Flipper button sounds when the game is idle. This is a guilty pleasure. I like walking up to my idle games and hearing a soundbyte when I hit a flipper button.
I'm surprised it doesn't have that. Tron does.
Quoted from Frax:Ironically, you still end up with purple and red trim.
Ironically?
Quoted from Frax:I think it's ironic, because you didn't buy a combo TF LE, yes...
Ah, got ya. Thanks for the explanation.
Thanks guys. Pretty excited. I'm quite pleased with my number too (even though I don't really care about that type of thing.....I could not tell you what number my LOTR LE was, Tron LE is, or TF LE is.....but 199 is easy to remember).
Quoted from pinballslave:I'd sell that to a) Make more space for more pins, and b) get money yo buy more pins to fit in new space
You have no idea how many times I've thought the exact same thing!
Quoted from mcfly:would love to hear your thoughts when you've had a few games ..
I've played a few games now. Unfortunately I have the (what is becoming infamous) banging magnet/disc. Sucks. How did they let these out the door like this? It would have been very obvious during test.
The game is truly a beauty! I absolutely love the art on Magneto. The red powder coating has to be seen in person to really be appreciated.
The clear on the PF is quite nice, definitely seems thicker than any recent Stern.
My Wolverine seems to register hits fine. The ramp does go right up against him, but seems to line up and drop the ball right where it should.
So far it seems the loud banging magnet/disc is my only issue. On the way to the hardware store now to get a 5/16" E ring.
This sucks.
Put an E ring on. Still got the banging noise.
Put a second E ring on. Tight fit. Banging noise GONE. New problem: the disc won't turn! 
Quoted from mpatricksp:Rob, you probably saw the other thread but one guy said if you can only fit one clip, to bend it a little and it smothed his out.
Thanks. The bitch was getting the second E ring out once I had it in there. Didn't try the bend yet, I will give that a try.
Just a few initial impressions on the pin and game play on my Magneto:
The pin is fast, but not always fast so it isn't completely out of control all the time. Shots are tight but definitely can be made and I expect to get more consistent when I learn the table. The Rogue shot is easy. I mean easy. It shouldn't even be compared to GEM on Tron. I'd hit Rogue with ease, even when I wasn't trying to. Hitting the upper ramp has been more difficult for me than Rogue so far.
I'm getting more SDTM balls from Magneto than I should be. I feel cheated when that happens. Magneto has also released more than one ball at a time when he isn't supposed to, but that only happened a couple times so far.
The magnet/disc is a mixed bag. Sometimes when it starts, it is a bit anti-climactic when the balls are released. Other times it seems to spin for a longer amount of time before releasing the balls and it has a better effect.
Wolverine magnet can really fling the ball with force! All the way up the play field and into Cyclops.
Moving ramp is kind of cool, but not a game changer. Ramps are smooth and satisfying. The pin really gets rocking when you hit several consecutive shots!
I like the music a lot! Probably more than the voice work and call outs, which I consider to be ok but nothing to get really excited about. I really do hope for some improvements here when the code is updated. "Watch it" gets old quick when Wolvie keeps repeating it.
I am really liking the way the game plays in terms of ball movement, including the way the magnets and moving disc interact with the ball. I love magnets, so having two in the middle of the pf makes me happy.
Overall really like the pin a lot. The quality seems to be good overall (other than the QC issue regarding the magnet/spinner noise), and the clear on the pf is impressive.
Looking forward to the updated code.
Quoted from pmWolf:Not sure I'd agree that it feels like EITHER game.
I'd be hard pressed to say which game I'd compare it to...
I definitely agree that it does not feel like either of those games to me.
Ironically the *only* pin that came to mind while playing this was NGG! The way the balls lock in the back are similar to the putting green on NGG. The right upper flipper hits the ball into the upper ramp similar to NGG, and even the two rising Nightcrawlers are similar to the gophers that pop up on NGG. And of course NGG also has a spinning disc (but no magnet).
Quoted from mcfly:so rob how did you get the magnet issue sorted after it stopped spinning .
I got the second E clip out. Just have one in there now. Still have the banging sound though, but not quite as loud. Will try the bending trick tomorrow, and if that doesn't fix it, I will call Stern.
It's still early, but I have to kind of disagree with the long ball times claim. The SDTM balls from Magneto, and the random throws of the ball by Wolverine will keep ball times from being long.
I've already hit the ramp shot a few times while draining my next to last ball so the ramp was going back into its regular position with the ball in the ramp. Once it just fell in front of the flipper (a fairly long drop that can't be good for the PF) and another time the ball flew over both flippers and drained.
Quoted from markmon:You know, the ball times are actually pretty long - on par with spiderman. It's nothing like tron or ironman here.
Just when you thought you and I were starting to agree again!
It's very early for me, and my outlines are still at the factory settings, but I don't see ball times on XM being anywhere near as long as on SM.
Quoted from pinballslave:This game sounds like it could be top notch when the code updates come out... the main thing that's putting me off pulling the trigger at the moment is the Wolvie figure... it, IMO, looks ridiculous... a bloated shiny almost Disneyfied Blue and yellow blob with a cheesy grin and shiny arms... I'd have to take that off if I ever got one of these... I think the open scoop that's been mentioned above is a downer too... They did this right on TF IMO, no wear possibility and the ball would only go in there if shot in there (and only with the DT down on LE models).
Has anyone else got an aesthetics issue with Wolvie and decided to change him out?? Just wondering if alternate figures have been installd how how that looks...
I am not bothered by Wolvie at all. He looks fine overall. He could be a bit smaller and that would help open up the Beast shot through the pops, but even as it stands now, that shot isn't much tougher than the shot through the pops on Tron.
Speaking of the pops: I agree with Eskaybee regarding WAY too many SDTM drains when the ball comes out of the pops!
If the ball comes out of the pops on the right side (from the players view) of the scoop, you are in serious danger of losing the ball. This is similar to what happens on Tron when you hit the GEM shot, but it happens much more often on XM. I don't see how this can be changed either.
Quoted from TomGWI:I'm hoping they get the 1.2 code out sooner rather than later. The game plays great just need to score those multiballs.
Still have not gotten nightcrawler.
I haven't seen NC yet either. We need updated code ASAP. Scoring is completely useless and meaningless at this point.
Quoted from markmon:I think the toys look really good. Unfortunately, if wolverine were removed, the beast shot would have another 3/8 inch of width. Id take an after market replacement that gave me all the shot clearance even if it looked worse.
Yeah, they look pretty good in person. Like I said, that Beast shot isn't easy, but it is definitely a shot that can be made. I don't think it will be much of an issue for me once I get more time on the table.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I agree with Rob, how are you guys keeping the ball on the pf for more than 30 seconds! Ive been to rob's house and would have to say were both good players. Perhaps if i go to his house and play his magneto we would keep the ball going longer since we seem to play better in 2 player modes against each other lol.
Anyway, its only day 1 of playing so that's probably why i cant keep the ball going for long periods of time. After 20 plays, my games look like this; ball 1 - lock 1 or 2 and qualify a couple heros, ball 2 - lock 3 with a couple more heros, ball 3 - magneto mb followed by one hero mode and one villain mode, game over.
*EDIT* Oh, i did beat sentinels in my last game last night; sweeeeet freakin animation for the completion. Wont spoil it but looking forward to other mode completion animations.
I'm going to start by taking Mark's advice and close the outline posts.
Quoted from mnpinball:Just got word, code pushed to next week. Working on a big update and bug fixes.
Mixed bag.
I want it now, but also want big changes.
While re-reading my post regarding my initial impressions I realized that I failed to mention one important aspect, which is that this game is FUN to play. Fun is good.
Quoted from Gexchange:Anyone know who's LED's Stern is using for GI and Such in AC/DC and X-men? They don't look like coin takers to me
They look *exactly* like Cointakers to me.
Quoted from copperpot:Ok, folks, I got my X-men Wolverine 168 last night and broke it in good. I haven't checked the audits, but I'd guess we put 30-40 games on it. Here's my unadulterated, non-biased review.
Excellent review for an initial first impression post!
1) The software didn't seem like the 'nightmare' everyone has described so far. It's definitely BUGGY. And the Magneto start is neat, but locking 4 balls to unlock the rest of the game is extreme. Make that first magneto multiball a 2/3 ball multiball OR somehow take away that 'gate' to unlocking the rest of the game. No Nightcrawler, either, of course. Scoring is BORKED, but for now I'm trying to dial in the shots, no big deal.
Kind of have to disagree with this. I think the software is probably as close to a "nightmare" as you can get. Like you said, scoring doesn't work. Well, scoring on a pinball machine is *kinda* important. Any games played between now and the code fix are going to be meaningless. And where are those Nightcrawlers? Seem like they would be a cool feature, but I might as well have a pro at this point because I haven't seen them yet.
2) Dimples. Yes, lots. There's a thick-a$$ clear on this game, and everytime the ball even takes a hop you get a big dimple. That said, I expected this and it doesn't bother me. I've only seen bullet proof perfect clear once and that was by a guy that does excellent work.
I looked at my PF very carefully before I played my first game. The clear is a beauty. Looks nice and thick. Not a single dimple that I saw. After playing several games, I definitely have dimples! Wish that wasn't the case, but I definitely consider it normal.
3) Wolverine. My wolverine was 'popping a wheelie' out of the box. His right claw hits the ramp, but it doesn't affect gameplay. Wolverine needs to go on a diet, big time. The toy itself is goofy looking and doesn't do much for me (Sorry, Borg!). I'm going to be working to replace him with one that has a smaller footprint on the playfield. Non-purists feel free to flame me.
I am not bothered by Wolvie at all, other than being a bit wide and making the Beast shot a little more difficult. Mine seems to register great, is positioned correctly, and does not interfere with the ramp, even though his claw slightly touches the ramp when it is extended.
Anyway, I think you meant to say "purists" feel free to flame you, not "non-purists". I don't think anyone is going to flame you are anyone else who tries to improve on Wolvie.
4) The Scoop. Yes, the ball absolutely DROOLS into the scoop from the pops, but on mine it was only about 50% of the time. Those were NOT drains for me.
I'm a little confused by what you are saying here? The ball does go into the scoop a lot coming out of the pops if the ball comes out the left side of the scoop. I agree it is probably 50% of the time. By what do you mean by those were NOT drains for you?
The drain most of us are talking about is when the ball comes out of the pops on the *right side* of the scoop (and doesn't go into the scoop), it will very often go SDTM.
5) Spinner/Lock/Magnet Combo Issues: Sometime at multiball start, the magnet doesn't grab ANYTHING, it seems that the magnet in general sometimes just takes a nap for several games. It's VERY annoying to have that happen, and STERN should fix this ASAP.
Interesting, I don't think I've noticed this problem. Anyone else having this issue?
6) Spinner: The spinner has some grip tape surface, it's pretty cool, for balls that roll slowly over it, it can mess with the ball a lot, fast shots through that area though are pretty much unaffected by the spinner.
Cool, I'll have to watch for this closer.
7) Fit/Finish. One of the left front leg protector plates was inhibiting the leg bolt from getting to the back plate. Metal file took care of it. The front decal had a small tear from someone dragging a screwdriver or something over it. Bummer. I cleaned it up and you can't really see it now, but kind of annoying just the same.
Bummer that you had a couple of issues.
I forgot to mention that my siderails were both scuffed up pretty good where they had the foam under the back box. I took a little polish to it and it improved, but there are still scratches in it that will never come out. I noticed the exact same thing on the HUO TF LE that I picked up last week. Stern would be well served to put some painters tape on the side rails under where the foam protectors go.
Sound/Dots/Lights. Wow, I'm blown away. Music for the different modes, the dots are PERFECT. The sound callouts were solid. Magneto sounds like Will Ferrel, take it or leave it, we had fun making fun of 'I've Captured Another BAAAULLL'. I love the 'hidden' X-men in the dots. Fantastic. The color changing GI is really really well done. Probably my favorite thing about the game right now. It's no LCD, but it's a great improvement over traditional GI lighting.
It truly is a great looking pin, and the DMD/Dots are fantastic. I love the music! The color changing GI during different modes is a very cool feature indeed. At first I didn't think the sound quality was that good, and the sound is heavily weighted to the bottom cabinet speaker, but once I cranked it to a higher volume the sound is fine. I'm glad I got the Flipper Fidelity speaker kit though. The voice work is growing on me.
9) FUN FACTOR. I've been reading these boards for MONTHS. I thought the game was going to land and be an absolute bucket of trash. It's nothing like that. All these complaints are VERY superficial. VERY. The reason you don't see any up for sale is because people like to complain on boards, but this game is going to be a winner long term. It'll take a couple of software updates, and it will take some home mods, but in the end I think it will be a GREAT compliment to Ironman.
This is the most important aspect of any pin to me. The fun factor is very high on this one, and it will only get better in that regard after the updates to the code are released.
Quoted from copperpot:So RobT, on the broken scoring thing. I'm not looking to set a GC score right now anyway, in fact, all of our scores last night seemed to hyperbolically approach 10m. We could get close to 10m, but never over it.
For me, for at least the next couple weeks score doesn't matter. I need to learn how to hit that Iceman ramp consistently (it feels more like an orbit shot than a normal ramp to me, right now), and figure out if I can hit Beast/Xavier reliably. I'm not a super good pin player, but I think in time I'll be able to hit both of those fairly easily with practice.
One thing here though, everytime I hit the beast orbit I was like YES and then I was like NOOOO because the ball rocketed around so fast it had already hit the right flipper before I even realized it.
-Wes
For me, it is important to have the scoring work correctly right off the bat so you can learn the rules and develop scoring strategies to maximize score. You can't really do that if the scoring doesn't work.
As it stands now, you can certainly practice shots and see some of the rules and what is required to start/complete different modes though.
Quoted from markmon:Scoring is not just about getting a gc. It's the point of the game. How do you evaluate if your strategy works?
Isn't that what I said?
For that matter, why have a score at all? With the scoring bug, the game is unplayable. I'm moving mine out of my gameroom and into my workshop waiting for a fix so it can be played. Rather than a quick update to make what we have usable it looks like we are going down the line of delays and larger promises. Could be several weeks at this. Out to the shop it goes.
I might take this "opportunity" to let my XM sit without being played in the unlikely even that it will let the clear coat harden a bit more.
I'm still not sure what the truth is on that issue and whether giving it more time to harden will actually make any difference, but since the pin doesn't keep score right now anyway I might as well let it sit for a bit longer. I definitely have some dimples in my PF now.
Well despite my earlier comments about letting Magneto rest until we get the update, things didn't turn out that way as we had friends over for a BBQ and there was no way that we weren't going to fire her up.
Put some decent amount of time on the pin, and I have to say that this pin has the potential to be really great! The modes are just excellent, and there are a ton of them. Perfect use of the X-Men theme. The spinner and two magnets move the ball in some amazing and almost hypnotic ways at times. There was a lot of yelling and going on while playing. Very addictive too. This pin will definitely be a winner when they clean up the code!
Nightcrawlers finally made an appearance. In fact, I got them two games in a row. I have no idea how. It is a cool feature that needs to be seen more often. They definitely register hits from the side.
One thing that *must* be remedied is the intermittent turning off of the magnet. We had a ton of MB's that were started where the magnet didn't turn on and you would just have all the balls fall out of the Magneto lock down the middle of the PF. Not good.
I still love the music! Sentinels may be my favorite mode, but I'm withholding judgment for awhile.
This is going to be a great pin!
Quoted from mcfly:good to hear .. so Rob do you still think the voices are from the animated series wolverine and the xmen ,what i mean is are the custom jobs by the same people as the bits taken straight out of the series.
I have no idea because I am not familiar with the animated series. This is probably an advantage that I have as I don't have any specific expectations of the voices in that regard.
I'd say this: I really have no problem with the voices at all, and that definitely includes Magneto. In fact I would say that the voices are actually pretty good. What I think definitely needs improvement is the fact that too many of the sayings are repeated too often. Even my non-pinhead friend noticed that.
Quoted from DugFreez:I have to say as far and bang for the buck change I have seen is changing out the 161 incandescent in Mags spotlight for a LED. It lights him up much better.
Will a 555 LED work there? My Magneto spotlight already stopped working. I was going to try one of PBL's "really_f*cking_bright" LEDs there.
Post edited by SealClubber : Language.
Quoted from RobT:One thing that *must* be remedied is the intermittent turning off of the magnet. We had a ton of MB's that were started where the magnet didn't turn on and you would just have all the balls fall out of the Magneto lock down the middle of the PF. Not good.
In speaking with Eskaybee, he noticed issues with his magnet similar to what I posted above. What we have found to be in common is that this issue appears to really show up during multi-player play.
Can other owners give their X-men some plays in Multi-player mode and see if the magnet does not work during the start of MB's (or works a lot less often)?
Quoted from jackal2001:The magnet shutting off is a heat related issue. The magnet has some kind of sensor somewhere and it shuts off when too hot. At least that is what I was told. They are going to try pulsing the magnet less.
It probably could be activated by the targets a lot less than it currently is and still get plenty of use.
Quoted from jackal2001:I was down a Michael's (Flipper Fidelity) house today helping with the Wolverine backbox kit. The kits look awesome! The Magneto looks way better in person than on the video. We couldn't think of much with the wolverine backglass but I think it turned out great. There is way too much going on in the glass. All in all it turned out great and the blues really pop in Wolverine!
I was really impressed with the AC/DC LTBR too. That was really meant for a LED panel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rDSC7mv5Bmw
I know you can't speak for Michael, but do you know why the prices of these kits are more than his normal price of $139.99?
I usually buy one of these kits for my Sterns, but $170 plus shipping is getting up there.
Quoted from copperpot:What does the wolverine one do? Just kind of fade his face in and out. Gotta say, the Magneto one is MUCH MUCH cooler looking.
I agree completely, and I just noticed that ironically the Wolverine edition is $10.00 *more* than the Magneto edition.
For those of you who put your shaker in X-Men are you having any issues?
Mine is rattling like crazy. I don't know if this is a bad shaker or if it might be software related somehow?
Quoted from markmon:Rob, mine does not sound anything like that. It almost sounds like your motor is actually hitting something. Does your tron or Transformers have a shaker in them? How do they sound in comparison? You could also swap the motor from your xmen into one of those other machines and determine if its the motor. Shouldn't take too much time or effort to do so since you obviously installed your own in the first place
I agree, it definitely sounds like it is actually hitting against something. The problem is that I took the cover off and double checked the clearance. It is definitely not hitting anything unless it is hitting something in/on the shaker assembly itself. I am thinking its a bad shaker motor. It is perfectly tight, and pushing down on it doesn't make any difference in the rattling.
I think your suggestion of putting the shaker from Tron or TF in there makes sense.
Quoted from muttonboy:Yes! I've been messing with this for days and it's annoyed the crap out of me. Posted about it in the GEX shaker motor sale thread.
Reinstalled it and no difference. Getting it out the first time, I broke two of the bolts, which I didn't think would be possible with just a little nut driver. And the third bolt I didn't realize was spinning on the bottom drilled a nice circle in my cabinet, so be careful....
I can't get the thing any tighter. Sorry I can't be more help, but please let me know if you do.
Have you tried pushing down on it really hard while testing? Mine went away when I pushed down on it hard. It did had a bit of a rock to the mount if I wiggled it hard by hand.
Mine rattling does *not* go away when I push down on it, so that is a big difference.
Quoted from markmon:Rob, mine does not sound anything like that. It almost sounds like your motor is actually hitting something. Does your tron or Transformers have a shaker in them? How do they sound in comparison? You could also swap the motor from your xmen into one of those other machines and determine if its the motor. Shouldn't take too much time or effort to do so since you obviously installed your own in the first place
Thanks Mark, this was the obvious thing to do in order to absolutely confirm that it is a shaker problem.
I swapped the shaker from my Tron LE and put it in XM. I think this pretty much settles the matter.
Quoted from muttonboy:had two motors, tried the second one a little bit ago, had the same problem... It sounded just like Rob's. I tried tightening the top screw that runs all the way across on teh second one and the problem went away. All good now other than the carnage to my cab lol.
This fixed the issue completely!
All it took was tightening the top screw about 3 or 4 turns. The shaker is now perfect! Easy fix, but one that I had never heard of before.
Still lots to learn in this hobby.
Thanks to Jackal2001 for the advice.
Quoted from pmWolf:You can increase your odds by being careful WHEN you hit the Blackbird scoop.
If a mode is running, it will ALWAYS give you "Add more Time." If a multi-ball is on, it will ALWAYS give you "Add-A-Ball." If you are Pre-Magneto Multi-Ball, it'll give you some crappy award ("Pops Score 4,000!" or "200,000 points!"). So, ideally you want to hit the mystery scoop at some other time, and you'll see him more often.
I had him in ZERO out of 40 games. In the next 15 games, I probably got to see him 3 or 4 times when going out of my way to follow the rules above.
Pete
Bingo. I've seen NC a fair amount in the last two days and I noticed the exact same pattern that you reference above.
The NC's are cool and they work quite well in terms of registering hits.
Quoted from pmWolf:Let's take this in a couple sections:
Magneto Multi-Ball: BEFORE the multi-ball starts, you need to "collect" heroes. You just need to hit their shot ONCE for them to be "collected" for the multi-ball. (ie: Hit Wolverine once. He stays lit. Hit Beast once. He stays lit. Hit the IceMan ramp once...he's lit, etc etc etc).
Anyone you have "collected" and solidly lit when Multiball starts becomes your JACKPOT SHOTS.
So, if you ONLY hit Wolverine and the IceMan ramp before the multiball start, then you can ONLY collect Jackpots from the IceMan ramp, Wolverine and the center Magneto shot (which is always a jackpot shot, no matter what).
If you are really rocking...you can have ALL shots lit for jackpots (collect Beast, Wolverine, Storm, Rogue, Prof-X, Cyclops, IceMan and Phoenix before the multi-ball start....so all those shots are jackpots during the MB).
This was discussed before the pin was actually released.
This is exactly how MM works. You want to collect as many "madnesses" as possible before starting MB. Each madness that you collect before starting MB will be the jackpot during MB. So you try to *avoid* the Merlin hole until you have collected as many of the madnesses as possible. When my non-pinheads see my negative reaction to starting MB on MM (when I start it too soon) they are very confused.
Quoted from pmWolf:Storm: Starting Storm will light the pop bumpers and the Storm ramp. Complete the mode by hitting them. (Again, started this once in my life. Completed it by hitting the ramp a few times).
I started Storm for the first time today. It is a *very* cool mode.
Quoted from taylor34:Except for on MM it almost makes more sense not to shoot the Jackpots at all and just shoot the castle, regardless of the what the jackpot is because the castle shots are so valuable and dangerous at the same time. That's how I made it to BFTK a couple weeks ago, I just ignored the multiball jackpots, shot the castle, and ended up with like 157 million or something like that. I think somebody calculated it out at some point and figured out that the best scoring strategy was to do that (which ironically also is the best strategy to get to the wizard mode).
True, but if you got to BFTK you did a lot more than just destroy castles. You had to complete all the modes 3 times as well.
Quoted from Rarehero:That sounds annoying as sh*t, actually. In this game, with all those modes...no mode should be super long...it's counter productive to the overall package. Let's hope in a future update you can complete the mode by destroying 2 Sentinels within the time limit...that seems reasonable. Or, as I always say - OPTIONS to change mode difficulties!
There is a sh*t-ton of stuff to do in this game. It's going to take long ball times to get that done. I'm still getting way too many SDTM drains from the pops and it is annoying the crap out of me. I may try raising the pitch a bit to see if that helps any.
Either way, this may be a pin that I just set on 5 ball play so I can actually get a little way into the pin and maybe have a chance of seeing half the modes.
Quoted from DugFreez:I have no problem with not hitting a wizard mode. I've had my Spider-Man for 3 years and haven't even got really close to Super Hero mode. I'm fine with that...I'm not a great player and it gives me something to work towards.
X-Men could be setup fine for me. I like the idea of having 2 seperate mini-wizard modes (Danger Room for completing the heroes and Dark Phoenix for completeing the villians). I think with my skill I could probably hit one OR THE OTHER on a good game IF they add mode stacking or at least mode qualifying while in another mode AND ALSO save mode progression.
So I don't feel the need to see everything in one game. I would be happy hitting one or the other mini-wizard modes on a good game. If they add a full blown wizard mode for after completeing both mini-wizard modes....I would like that, but will be fine without ever seeing it.
The main thing I am afraid of is if they leave the mandatory multi-ball to start the game or if they make the rules so it makes sense to time out the modes to progress farther in the game (because I will do that and hate every minute of it).
Like I said, even on 5 ball, you might see *half* the modes based on the current rules.
And I don't expect the rules to change on this initial code update. You will still need to start Magneto MB before starting the other modes.
Quoted from DugFreez:I will sell the game before I switch to 5 ball,
That's ridiculous.
No update today?
It seems that the vast majority of us prefer that they do away with the requirement to start MMB before being able to start the modes, but I very seriously doubt that that will be part of an early update. 
Quoted from cleland:I think I might cry, after waiting 10 Days my Wolverine show up today. Too bad some ham fisted fork lift driver ran a fork lift through the bottom of the cabinet! Really sucks too as it was #60 and I didn't even request a special number. Had to refuse shipment, Bummer
Kevin
Sucks Kevin!
Has anyone confirmed whether there is any correlation at all between the number and actual build dates?
I have Magneto #199 with a build date of 7-19-12.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Rob we got ours on the same day:
Wolverine #90; build date 7-18-12
Yeah, I don't think there is any correlation between the build date and number. I wonder how they decide what number the pin gets though?
Quoted from pinballcorpse:And I respectfully disagree about Xavier and Storm. Those shots are not anywhere near "Gem-Difficult." Take a poll
Not even close.
Quoted from Eskaybee:This game is awesome.....that is all
I see that it is currently number 1 in the rankings based on the few ratings that have been given (obviously it won't be staying there for long), but one thing that I notice in the majority of those ratings and comments here and in other threads is that XM has the *potential* to be a great pin once the "incomplete code" is finished.
We see this repeated over and over.
So, having played the pin a fair amount now, I would like to ask: what exactly is it that people consider "incomplete" about this current code?
I personally do not believe that we will see any meaningful changes to the rules in the initial update, or anytime in the near future. Stern has no history of doing that. If people are expecting the rules to be changed in this first update, I think there are going to be a lot of disappointed XM owners. I do not believe that the requirement that you gather X-Men and battle Magneto before starting the modes will change for example.
So other than the obvious stuff like the MB scoring issue, how is the current code "incomplete". I've even seen people refer to it as "beta" etc.
The way the rules are now make perfect sense from a story/plot perspective. It makes it harder to get through all the modes though. But the more I play it, the more I appreciate the current rule set despite the added difficulty in getting to see more modes.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Good post rob, I was just thinking to myself during a game that I really hope they don't get rid of the initial hero qualifications to start the first MMB. It actually adds another element to the game. I just hope they add villain mode qualifications to the beginning of the game and allowing it to stack w qualifying heroes and the first MMB.
It would also be nice to have a mini wizard mode for doing heroes and villains but not necessarily completing them. Who knows maybe that already exists? But I know a lot of ppl enjoy achievable mini wizard modes such as battle royale and SOS.
I agree with this, but still, those are things we might *want* but none of that equates to "incomplete code" in my opinion. Would you agree?
I'm just trying to determine where this seeming consensus has come from regarding the code being incomplete.
Some people said that there are obviously "placeholders" or something like that for additional voice work, but I'm not even convinced of that.
Edit: Paul and Pete posted while I was typing. Good posts, thanks.
Quoted from pmWolf:I think this is based on previous Stern games where similar repeating quotes turned out to be placeholders (Spidey, for example).
...and optimism.
Yeah, that optimism thing is something I probably need more of. Rarehero was throwing some of that stuff around too, even after being a TF "victim".
Quoted from mechslave:I've actually said referring to it as "beta" is too kind. I do agree the core of the game is complete, but because it's buggy (Nightcrawler can bring you to a coil test screen, or random numbers scrolling, etc), incomplete (missing music, combos, feature tweaks) and of course the main problem is that it just doesn't score correctly (not just Magneto, I've noticed in other modes like Wolverine... then I just stopped counting points after awhile).
But yeah, this game is basically on "demo" code for pre-production, to me. That's not to say I see the update as being sweeping changes, just minor changes which actually make the machine function and score correctly. It's like if a new Windows came out and was complete...except you couldn't use email or surf the web.... yeah it'd be 98% but missing REALLY basic functions which should've definitely be in a beta release.
Nice analogy, I like it!
Now, can we just get the damn update already?!
Quoted from Shapeshifter:So for those with Tron and Xmen, any view as to which might be favourite? I know it is difficult at this stage as honeymoon phase makes it more difficult! Still deciding between the two.....
Too early for me to tell. The Tron theme, sounds, call outs, and music will be hard to beat though.
Quoted from mechslave:To me, it's absolutely unacceptable for a designer to go on vacation while his game is on the line (w issues).
To me it is absolutely unacceptable to release a pin that has obvious problems with the scoring. That one seems pretty basic and obvious. I just don't see an excuse for it. I'm way more willing to give a pass on some QC things like the magnet/spinner noise (which was an easy fix anyway) than something as basic as not properly keeping score. Sheesh.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:The scoring thing is a flat out insult. If not fixed real soon Stern just lost.
I agree. They need to bust out a fix immediately.
Quoted from Chudmeat:I don't have time to read all 96 pages of this thread. Can someone give me the cliff notes version?
Game looks amazing, lots of cool shots, there are a few minor QC issues, scoring is screwed.
Quoted from DugFreez:Ever hit a lock shot up the Phoenix lane and it trickle back down through the Beast lane? Sure you have.
No, actually, I haven't.
Anyone else?
Quoted from markmon:Not me. The game is unplayable as is. Fix the scoring only, as fast as you can. Then work on other things.
I agree completely. I played XM quite a bit over the last few days, but it has definitely got to the point where I'm frustrated with the scoring issue and having less fun as a result.
Where is it?
When is it coming?
Quoted from cscmtp:Rob if you haven't already, change it to 5 ball. Makes up for the crappy scoring.
5 ball since day one.
Quoted from GAP:Scoring is going to be fixed, code is going to come out early next week.
Is it wrong that I am pissed that I have to wait until next week?
Does this mean that I am a "glass half empty" kind of guy?
Should I be happy that you played one with the new/fixed/updated code and that you think we will all be happy *next week*? Would that make me a "glass half full" kind of guy?
Quoted from DugFreez:I don't know about loving the game or saying the scoring fix is the only thing the software needs.
I don't need to speak for Mark, but he certainly is not saying that the scoring issue is the only thing that needs to be fixed. Please read his other posts from today! Fix the scoring FIRST/NOW and release updated code NOW. Fix the other stuff later.
Quoted from GAP:Rob, it is not wrong for you to be pissed. Just saying a code update is coming and it addresses a lot of peoples concerns. Just trying to pass along good news. I have voiced my concerns to Stern and provided them feedback from my customers viewpoint and passed along these threads to them.
Thanks Mike, we do appreciate it. It is what it is I guess.
Quoted from Rarehero:I'm with you, brotha! Maybe it's just new game excitement...but I'm gonna play the sh*t out of it even before the update comes. Markmon saying it's unplayable...a *tad* over the top. I just played it. A bunch. LOL. Fully playable.
Since it's new, I'm just interested in getting a feel for it, get a sense of the modes, music & sound. We can scream about the scoring till we're Nightcrawler blue in the face...it's being taken care of...I'm gonna have fun w/ this game anyway!
Come back in a week and tell me if you still feel the same way. It will get to you, believe me. I had a lot of fun playing over the weekend too. Now that I have more familiarity with the modes and rules, the scoring issue becomes more and more of a pisser.
Quoted from Rarehero:SKB! We're gonna be X-Men buddies! YAY!!!!!
GET A ROOM!
You guys were TF buddies at one time too.
I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
Quoted from eggbert52:I'm waiting for RobT to say this game is better than Tron...
» YouTube video
Say it Rob....
That's pure classic all the way!
Thanks for the comedy!
Quoted from markmon:Yes. Plunge fast. That's what I do to avoid the ball being sent to the pop bumpers and 25% chance of draining.
Seems to be closer to 50% here. 
Quoted from rai:pretty much like TZ pop bumpers it can happen but not near 50%
Next time I'll keep track probably less than 20% Sdm drain since you are expecting it you can Nudge it out most times wolverine magnet is worse but not more than 20% either, you sure you're not exaggerating a bit?
It's damn frustrating, so yes, it is certainly possible that I am exaggerating.
The comparison to the pops on TZ is a perfect comparison. I've made the same comparison myself in discussions with others. And the drains from the pops in TZ *always* pissed me off! It was and remains my biggest complaint about TZ.
I'm going to raise the pitch on my Magneto to see if that helps any.
Quoted from rai:I see what you are saying but to me playing to skip (time out) the modes it would defeat the fun of playing in the first place.
He's not playing it "to skip the modes", he's playing it to maximize his chances of getting to the wizard mode as his ultimate goal.
It makes complete sense if the wizard mode is your goal.
Quoted from gambit3113:You have to complete the modes to get the names to stay lit. Just starting modes (hero and Villian) on this game will only get the insert flashing. You don't advance toward the wizard modes with modes merely started - you will have to finish them. So what is the point of timing them out?
He's making the argument regarding what would happen if you *weren't* required to complete the mode in order to advance to the wizard mode.
Quoted from SealClubber:And GI bulbs keep popping out of the socket.
I've forgot to mention this previously. I've had one of the GI bulbs under one of the slingshots come out twice. Obviously there's a lot of vibration on these being right next to the slingshot arm. I finally had to glue it into the socket. But the point is why did they go to 555's for the GI instead of the usual 44's? It seems that 44's lock into place better than 555's, so I think this could be a bit of an issue.
Quoted from gambit3113:Oh. Then...who gives a shit?
People who are arguing for a mini wizard mode for starting all the modes.
Quoted from DugFreez:You are jumping in mid conversation. Some folks have suggested that they change the rules to where you don't need to beat a mode to move on to the mini wizard modes. That is when I always jump in and protest and say that type of rules just encourages timing out the modes.
I like the rules better as they are now, to having the modes not have to be beat. I honestly prefer mode stacking, but requiring the mode to be beat is better than letting players advance farther without beating modes.
Here's the thing though: it doesn't follow that just because there is a *MINI* wizard mode available for starting all the modes that you would just let them time out, depending on how it is implemented.
MB is a perfect example of this. Start every monster mode without beating them and that gets you to Monster Bash, which is the mini wizard mode. But if you want to get to the real wizard mode, Monsters of Rock, you have to *beat* all the modes. So why would you just cradle the ball and let the modes run out in that situation? Who wants to *just* get to the mini-wizard mode?
Now, if you were talking about the main wizard mode, I would agree with you.
Quoted from Gerry:Thats how i took what he was saying as well... for a game with no stacking possibilities...
But for a stacking ruleset it would be kinda foolish..
Exactly Gerry.
And you will see my subsequent post when I talk about MB where you are still working towards the main wizard mode while also working towards the mini wizard mode.
Quoted from DugFreez:The least bang for the buck was for the yellow dome (warm white), the flashers under the apron (2 warm white)
You need to put two blue flashers under the apron. Made a big difference.
Why would you put warm white under the apron when the cover is blue?
Quoted from taylor34:Plus the ultimate goal of pinball isn't even getting to the wizard mode, it's points.
I don't necessarily agree with this if you are playing at home by yourself.
My *only* goal on some pins after owning them for awhile is to get to the Wizard mode, and I couldn't care less about points.
Example: Vacation Jackpot on WH20, RTU on AFM, KotR on MM, Portal on Tron, SH on SM, etc. Getting to a difficult to obtain wizard mode can be more rewarding than getting a high score.
Quoted from fattrain:Because the window they shine through on the Wolverine is Yellow. (Blue Apron, Yellow Windows)
Doh!
Quoted from Rarehero:Yeah, that can happen sometimes...the switch blades are too close and being sensitive...try adjusting the rubber a bit...you can kind of adjust it around the posts so it has more slack in front, tighter in back...that could solve it without having to mess with the switch.
Everyone should have one of these:
Quoted from AkumaZeto:You got the wrong game BUB that was AC/DC
I thought it was WoZ
Quoted from marksf123:Does not seem obvious to me..... I would be pissed if my boss said take the game home and play it on your own time and continually play it and find out what is wrong with it. Then you come into work and he says how was the game what did you find out and you say well i dont know i took my kid to little league and my wife out to dinner. Then his review comes along and he get graded on something that wasn't even part of his work day.
Thank you!
I was getting ready to type a similar response to the above posts, then I kept reading and you beat me to it.
I wouldn't assume that these guys would even want to have a game at home to WORK on. They may love their job, but it only goes so far.
Quoted from DugFreez:Ummm...because my covers are yellow and yellow LEDS are notorious for being useless unless in a direct sight location. Warm white LEDS are widely considered to be the best alternative under yellow domes and inserts.
I couldn't agree with you more.
As someone else already pointed out, I didn't realize that you poor Wolverine owners had that ugly yellow cover on the apron.
Quoted from fattrain:HA! Go play with your purple fairy colored windows you magneto whore
They aren't purple, they are blue! 
Quoted from mnpinball:When this reaches 6000 we will have a new code update.
Debatable
Quoted from TomGWI:If they release an update tomorrow I will change my Avatar to Stern Pinball.
If they release an update tomorrow, monkeys will fly out of my butt.
Quoted from TomGWI:That's why Tron is great. It doesn't take 30 shots to beat a mode. It's hard but feel the wizard modes are reachable. If you want to make a game super deep, don't make 75% the game difficult to achieve.
I'm fine with MMB, I have done the "POW" thing at least 5-6 times (haven't been playing a lot waiting for the update). Then collect X-men, ok it's possible except for cyclops. The Villian modes are tough. With out progression when you have to hit Sabertooth targets 30 times in what 60 seconds.....forget it. Not going to happen. Maybe for the top ten IFPA players, but not for the average or above average player.
I couldn't agree more.
The modes are hard to beat on X-Men as it is, and the shots themselves are tight with only a few exceptions. Will the shots become easier the more I play? Possibly. But I am having a hard time putting a bunch of shots together right now, that's for sure.
Quoted from Eskaybee:The shots do become easier.
When?
Like Mark, I'm having a hard time getting anywhere, and that's on 5 ball play! I'm getting fewer SDTM drains from the pops though, so that's good, but still have short ball times and you aren't going to get anywhere on this game with short ball times. It can be a frustrating pin right now, I can't even imagine how I'd feel if I had it on 3 ball.
I think I suck worse than I thought I did.
Quoted from Eskaybee:-some sort of change to the first mmb; either eliminated or allowing the player to start villain modes
I agree with everything in your post except this part. I think it is very unlikely that we will see any change regarding the first Magneto MB on this first update (if ever).
Quoted from Rarehero:Why? It would be very easy to either add it as an option, or open the Villain modes from the start. It's not a major change.
Greg, Greg, Greg.
Who said anything about it being a "major change"? That has nothing at all to do with it. Zero, zilch, nada.
History, my friend, history! Learn it.
Plus: what Tom said.
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