I would guess the per unit margin on LE's is a good deal more than on a Pro. Just based on the MSRP difference of 1500-2000. There isn't that much more machine in an LE, there's probably a couple hundred bucks more in parts and a few more hours of labor. Development cost difference are a bit more cloudy; either they pay more to decontent the original design to pro level, or pay to content up a Pro.

And the demand created by artificial limits probably sells more units than if they sold them as premiums. Plus they can forecast resource allocation better, which has a reductive effect on cost. LE's move pre-orders, premiums not so much because the perception is 'unlimited, I can wait'. When in reality all a premium is is a limited run where the limit isn't announced. But ultimately they don't keep making them to meet demand. If the promise of a non-LE was truly unlimited, they would still be running Tron Pro's.

The reality is that Gary, and maybe to a larger degree his investor are still trying to figure out the most efficient way to make money. So these inconsistencies around pro/LE/premium appear to be some thrashing as they work their way along the learning curve to that golden formula that will most efficiently move our dollars to their wallets.

My $0.02 anyway.

Also, I'm in for a Good Guy LE, SNIKT SNIKT!

Where did the IJ4 raising scoop go? Or is that now one of the nightcrawlers?

It was mentioned that Stern has sold them all to distributors. But distributors very likely still have them in stock.

So those toys don't really do anything? They don't light up with speech or move or anything? That's kind of disappointing considering their prominence. Ah well.

David Thiel interview: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23207201

Total guess here, but I assume when you're battling Wolverine that's his way to grab you, pause for a voice call taunt, and fling you elsewhere.

I believe it's the scoop, which has a blackbird plastic on it.

Yeah, inlanes to light it, scoop to cash it in maybe.

Can't get to Facebook from work, anyone care to repost the pics here? Thanks!

Full flyer, front and back hi-res, is out there now. Really shows details of those models...

http://sternpinball.com/upload/Games/XMen/XMenPro-Flyer.pdf

Hmm, that looks like much more than a simple troll head / bash toy. What tricks could be up Kurt's sleeves?

Could the hinged top part tilt back far enough to hold a ball? Trapping it then popping down under the field to act as a lock. That would be *very* cool.

The top 'hinge' may also not be a hinge at all, but just a channel that allows the face plate to actuate a switch on impact.

Ah yeah, that's exactly what it looks like, same little blue bumper plates and all.

iron_monger.jpg

I think on the photoshops that spot light was on the corner of the sling plastic furthest from the player. In these pics it's now on the closest corner to the player.

Thinking of bailing on this on after all, the rules are one of the biggest problems with TF and this appears to be TF 2.0. Dang it, really had high hopes,but should have known when Xerox was coding this is what would happen. Dang it dang it dang it. Freaking Stern.

Not sure what to do, I'm not looking to speculate on the value, but if this goes the way of TF and the $4500 LE, I will be kicking myself hard.

Certainly, but Unreal Engine is a set of brushes and a canvas on which to paint. What that whiteboard picture illustrates is that the artist is cutting a pasting wholesale elements from one painting to the next. I think we all knew (didn't we all?) they we're cutting and pasting some code, of course they were. When I go to write a new program, I certainly don't start by coding an operating system kernel. And if it stopped at the framework fine. But what I'm worried about isn't the framework. It's the complete cribbing of a rule set that was generally judged to be poor.

I get that more goes into the game than rules. But how often do you hear, 'that game could have been so much if not for the crap rules'. All things being equal, it's the number one most important thing on a game.

Having thought about it a bit more, I find myself backing off the ledge. My hope is that they listened to the TF feedback and won't commit the same crimes again. There were some really fun rules in TF that got lost in the rest of the issues with that game. I'm hoping there's more of that and less of the other thing.

That would make me happy, what's your source? An ex-Stern employee seems to think it has something to do with the rules.

You hitting F5 on your Facebook page all day? If so, thanks for saving me from having to do it.

Dots looking good!

So this one never made it to a public test spot? Is that something they don't do anymore?

I agree, the possibilities for that shot/area are very exciting. Based on what I've seen I think it will do one of 3 things...

1. If locks not lit, balls just pass through.
2. If lock is lit, first ball in the front or back sends the posts up
3. If the posts are up with a ball already locked it acts like a captive ball when hit from the front, or a physical lock if you hit from the back. The front captive ball hits probably advance the locked ball count.

Very excited by what I'm seeing in the video. Had concerns that since the Xavier shot was going to simulate a left ramp shot, that it would slow the flow. That doesn't look to be the case.

The dots look great, really great use of the art. Glad to see some humor.

The Iceman ramp looks well used. Send balls to the left to setup right ramp shots, I like it.

Jury is still out on the total sound package. I never watched the cartoons, so I don't have any bias there. But I hope the voices are at least in the ball park of what we expect these characters to sound like. If so, I can forgive the decision not to use established cartoon/movie actors voices.

Beat me by 10 seconds. What turbo said.

Yeah, Pinball News (http://www.pinballnews.com/games/xmen/index4.html) thinks it sounds like Fred Young as well. And this will be my first Stern with the 'new' LED display, not excited by the feedback on Pinside about that display. But I can overlook the display, as it's not a part of the playfield. And the voices, meh so what. But I never watched the cartoon until recently. My benchmark for Wolverines voice has been Hugh Jackman.

Seriously. But in fairness it is a forum created for JJP by JJP so it's not completely unexpected to see some competition bashing. I have a stake in both companies so I take the zeal from both sides with a grain of salt. I'm looking forward to both machines (XM and WOZ).

I think the busting has more to do with the hardware (the delineated squares that make up the display, not always evenly lit) not the animations. The animations look awesome, so much nicer than the digitized movie clips of late.

I read somewhere, here or rgp, that plasma DMD's are no longer compatible with European hazmat restrictions. So Stern just made the decision to give everyone the Euro-friendly LED display. I think at one point they were putting plasma's in the US versions and LED in the Euro versions. Around the time I bought my FGY (2007) I think that was the case.

FWIW my dist said that domestic games would start building tomorrow, and that my LE would ship in about two weeks.

I emailed Borg, Jody and 'info' for clarification. Haven't heard back yet but will post if I do. You would think with games rolling off the line this wouldn't be a trade secret any longer.

Heard back from Jody...

"All of the voice overs were done by marvel official voice actors."

I was told that machines were shipped to Canada Saturday, not sure if that was to dists or dropped shipped. Any Canucks get a shipping notice?

Those digital AC/DC tracks took a magnitude more space than synthed audio will require. And you can fit a ton of compressed mono audio suitable for pinball callouts in 32 MB of space. Or whatever is left after rules and dots. And just guessing here, but I imagine those comic dots will take less space than movie dots.

Just for comparison sake, the TSPP and LOTR ROM's are around 4.5 MB zipped, the TF LE ROMS are 24 MB zipped. So just based on that crude comparison, it shouldn't be assumed that more ROM = better game.

Awesome Derek! I was told my Wolvie LE was tentatively set to ship around July 21st. I must be low on my distributors list.

So has anyone with a machine seen the Nightcrawler mode yet? Pro or LE? I wonder if it's in the shipping code. I've seen it flash up during the Blackbird random award selection, but so far that mode has been very camera shy.

Awesome! In for one if that's the case.

So what's in the goody bag on this one?

Loving the narrative driven rules. Thanks for taking the time to lay all this out. Let this be a lesson to all early unboxers, this is how you report on the rules!

I haven't received any notification. My dist seems to only email those who are shipping, so I assume silence from him means nothing this week.

I think someone said it alternates between the two.

Super Jackpot?

Got Wolvie #165 today, after 30 games or so I haven't experienced any of the commonly reported issues. Wolverine doesn't hold balls behind his arm and his switch was calibrated fine. The Iceman ramp just touches the top of his claw, but it doesn't effect switch registers. The disk isn't popping (yet?). FWIW mine appears to have been built Friday the 13th.

What I did have were some switches hooked up wrong. Long story short, starting a ball caused left NC to pop up and the Angel skill shot to immediately be awarded. Switched the connectors around and now it's all good.

Also got the shaker installed, really good integration so far.

I'm liking the flow and the randomness caused by the magnets/disk. The Beast shot isn't the easiest of course, but not as bad as I expected after reading about it. Hitting it into a left ramp combo is a hoot.

Started Gambit hurry-up, got lucky and nailed the Beast shot cleanly. Held the right flipper and it smacked the right pop to claim. Worked just like Borg said it would in the video. I can see if you don't hit it cleanly all bets are off.

The use of the color switching GI in light shows look amazing. Storm's backboard lightning effects are cool too.

Anyway, reserving judgment until code is final, but so far so good!

Yeah, they were the same connector size, looked like all the switches used the same connector type. And when hooked up as from the factory, the colors matched. But in the switch test the left ramp entrance switch showed up as Left Nightcrawler, the left exit switch showed up as left entrance and the Left Nightcrawler showed up as left exit. Simply switching the plugs around fixed it.

Now of course the colors don't match on those 3 connections. But it works 100%. I guess someone on the harness/color team goofed.

But it works 100% now.

Don't know where all the voices come from, but while playing it I don't think about it much, they certainly don't take away. Some of the voices are definitely from the show. When you start Jugs for example, that nerdy voice is the voice of Forge, a direct clip from the show. Same with at least a few of the Gambit calls.

The Wolverine voice is fine, the Magneto voice is fine. I know people get hung up on Wolverine and Steve Blum. But I've heard Wolverine voiced by at least 3 different people on TV and in the movies and whoever is doing him is close enough. It's based on the books anyway and I have my own ideas for how he should sound, and this voice is well within that expectation. Wolverines calls are a highlight, he's funny.

The only one I think is a bit of a stinker is the pseudo-Brit guy that initially tells you to round up your team. No idea who that's supposed to be and it sounds a bit cheesy, for lack of a better word.

Further on the sound, the music variety is great. It really tells you where you are in the story, each mode and multiball has its own theme, very well done.

Haven't noticed any differences yet. The shaker is quite active in the game, it goes off on various mode/multiball starts as well as when you make your mode shots. For example in MMB, when you hit one of the lit shots you get a shake.

It's certainly appears to be a game that was designed from the outset to shake, it's not tacked on.

I'm really digging how Wolverine only seems to mess with you when the script makes sense for him to do that. When Beast mode is running for example, Wolverine is all but turned off while I flail away at that shot.

Makes the left side far less dangerous.

He does in fact. It's not a subtle effect either, he rock n rolls.

Was wondering about MMB, 1.1 vs. 1.2. In 1.1 you would collect X-Men to battle him, I assume there was some advantage to that. In 1.2 I don't recall seeing that X-Men are getting collected for MMB any longer. Has that piece been removed?

Anyone heard the scoop about a code update? Been a while since I've heard anything.

Yep, has happened to me once so far in about 500 games. I haven't bothered to troubleshoot or take any action yet. Of course I was having a fairly epic game when it occurred.

I have to be honest, when I read the change log before playing I thought, "combos, that's it?" But what a difference. It adds a whole new layer that just makes the other elements of the game more interesting. Extremely happy I didn't sell.

The only place I've seen a count is when I set the record. And good question on the counts, I'm not sure, would like to know that one myself.

The Iceman ramp is far less troublesome and now I think I would miss it. It doesn't move around as much. Not being able to feed the left flipper for repeat shots is what I would miss, though I have gotten relatively reliable at backhanding Iceman.

Also, very refreshing seeing some actual value out of the Blackbird mystery shots.

You can do that, but there is also a setting to just turn it completely off.

Yep, sounds like the aux board. Pretty close to what was happening to me. No problems since the swap though.

I completed all X-Men last night, lit them all solid and no Danger Room! The light didn't blink, and shooting the scoop produced no DR mode. There were literally a zillion things firing at that moment (Xtra Ball, Villains, Blackbird, Nighcrawler mode) so it must have been a bug, baaah!

FWIW I'm running 1.5 or 1.51 and I had also beaten Magneto.