(Topic ID: 50412)

X-Men: What should be done with Wolverine feature / Weapon X Multiball?

By DugFreez

10 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by PaulCoff
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

I know the very early versions of the software had a small Wolverine mode. It was basically hit Wolverine a few time to start it and it took a few more hits in a limited amount of time to complete it. Lame in comparison to most of the hero modes...if for no other reason than he is so easy to hit.

That was replaced with Weapon X Multiball. This is much better in my opinion and I like the rules and difficulty of it. The only change I would make to the mode itself is to have the Xavier as a left side shot along with Beast, Storm and Rogue. Lets face it...it's pretty much imposable to get the ball up to the upper flipper to make the Storm or Rogue shot without either hitting Beast (which will complete the left shot) or Cyclops (which will complete the right shot)...so Beast is really the only viable left shot as it stands now. Add Xavier in there to at least give the left side 2 realistic shots (as it is in Sabertooth mode).

That being said...the instruction card reads that the original plans were to have a Wolverine feature (like the other hero modes) and if that is complete it would start Weapon X Multiball. I have heard people suggest that they would like that. My question then is...what would be required to complete Wolverine (making his insert solid on the hero wheel inserts)? Would just completing his mode and starting Weapon X Multiball be enough or do you think you should have to complete Weapon X Multiball also?

I honestly think just having Weapon X Multiball is fine for Wolverine's mode. It seems that adding a regular hero mode to him and requiring it to be beat to start Weapon X Multiball and then ALSO having to beat Weapon X Muiltball would make his completion requirement (which is already tougher than the other heroes) even tougher.

If a regular mode was added for Wolverine...I would hope it would be better than the original was (just hitting Wolverine over and over). The score card read like it was intended that other shots light up that need to be hit. This could be a good mode if balanced correctly. I would suggest 2 random shots light up (of the 8 main X-Men shots), but make sure certain combinations are not used (ex: No Storm and Rogue together). Complete 1 of these 2 lit shots and the original 2 go out and 2 more light up, ect... Complete 3 shots and the mode is complete (Wolvie solid on the center wheel insert) and Wolvie is lit to start Weapon X Multiball. If you drain before you hit Wolvie....you miss out on Weapon X Multiball, but it remains available on the next ball (if there is one) with the next Wolvie hit. Give the white insert and red arrow at Wolverine a chaser flash so the player knows it is ready.

I would then give an extra incentive for beating Weapon X multiball. I wouldn't make it a requirement for Danger Room or Dark Phoenix. I would just give a nice award...my suggestion would be spot a Hero on the hero wheel that isn't completed yet. If all heroes are lit, but you haven't hit the scoop for Danger Room yet (highly unlikely) I would have it spot a villain. Even light extra ball would work, but not as nice as hero / villain spotting.

Taking all of that into consideration...I don't know if I would allow replaying of Weapon X Multiball again until after you have gotten to Danger Room? I am REALLY against replaying beat hero mode (my biggest complaint about the game as it stands), but I think you should get another chance at beating Weapon X Multiball if it is failed. I think I would have it setup so if you beat the Wolvie mode it completes Wolvie and qualifies Weapon X Multiball on the next Wolvie hit. If Weapon X multiball is beat you get an award and then it can't be played again until after Danger Room. If you fail Weapon X Multiball it can be requalified...but it would take twice as many Wolvie hits to start it as it did to originally start his regular mode. If you continue to fail Weapon X Multiball....the amount of Wolvie hits to restart it keep going up. This would give you other chances to beat the mode and get the reward, but also prevent people from failing it on purpose just to have an easy multiball to take advantage of. This would also not be considered making the game too hard and a "road black" because beating Weapon X Multiball wouldn't be a requirement to progress farther in the game....it would just be a CHANCE to win a helpful award (as should be the same with a Mags super jackpot).

Long winded, I know, but just some ideas and wondering what others thoughts were on this area of the game.

#2 10 years ago

I hate weapon X mode as it occurs way to frequently. Once per game is more than enough

#3 10 years ago

I agree Dug, that another Wovlie hero mode tacked on would feel kinda superfluous, and just make an already challenging mode even more difficult....which I don't think would make things better.

However, I do think that a quick Wolvie/Logan hurry up mode before WXMB starts might be some nice spice. In example:

-hit Wolvie the requisite amount of times to start WXMB as you would normally, but now instead of going straight into the MB, there's a hurry up combo mode started (let's say.....25 secs?) that you play that would add playfield multipliers for when the MB starts.

-so during the quick hurry up, making certain combo strings (beast-storm-Pheonix*ball lock on*, or storm-Clops-rogue*ball lock*, or Clops-storm-iceman-Xavier?) would bonus the player certain bonus "buffs" for the upcoming WXMB.

-either way, at the end of the hurry up, WXMB would start.

-notice on the combos that they all end with a shot that can be "held", in order to initiate WXMB mode dots. Make any of the successful combos, ball end held so that WXMB starts with the appropriate bonus(es)

-if the player fails to succeed in any combos after the 25 secs, then Wolvie would flash. Hitting Wolvie would initiate WXMB "normal", with no bonus multipliers.

Now, obvious problem with lighting choreography with this scenario if stacking is going on. Could, and probably will, turn into a cluster f@$k. But as it is, players got to have a good dose of multitasking awareness to be successful at XM....so what's one more layer gonna do? :p

#4 10 years ago

Having said *all* that. I do like the way it is right now. With stacking on, WXMB can turn into quite a strategic mode to initiate to help with other hard modes, to give the player that little edge. As a poor pin player, having that extra ball/ball save can do wonders for expediting modes.

As it is, I use WXMB purely as this kind of tool. I purposefully DON'T compete it, to keep the number of hits to start it low. When I start a villain mode that's a bitch, or something like sentinels, where every shot is valid, starting WXMB is awesome and welcome.

With the stacking now, starting WXMB shouldn't be as much of a "stopper" as it was in the past. And I don't think that the argument that the mode sucks because Wolvie is too easy to hit is invalid. Guys. I SUCK at pinball, but I can hit/miss Wolvie when I want to. I don't spend all game flailing at him, you can_ avoid him rather easily.

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from Rcade:

I agree Dug, that another Wovlie hero mode tacked on would feel kinda superfluous, and just make an already challenging mode even more difficult....which I don't think would make things better.
However, I do think that a quick Wolvie/Logan hurry up mode before WXMB starts might be some nice spice. In example:
-hit Wolvie the requisite amount of times to start WXMB as you would normally, but now instead of going straight into the MB, there's a hurry up combo mode started (let's say.....25 secs?) that you play that would add playfield multipliers for when the MB starts.
-so during the quick hurry up, making certain combo strings (beast-storm-Pheonix*ball lock on*, or storm-Clops-rogue*ball lock*, or Clops-storm-iceman-Xavier?) would bonus the player certain bonus "buffs" for the upcoming WXMB.
-either way, at the end of the hurry up, WXMB would start.
-notice on the combos that they all end with a shot that can be "held", in order to initiate WXMB mode dots. Make any of the successful combos, ball end held so that WXMB starts with the appropriate bonus(es)
-if the player fails to succeed in any combos after the 25 secs, then Wolvie would flash. Hitting Wolvie would initiate WXMB "normal", with no bonus multipliers.
Now, obvious problem with lighting choreography with this scenario if stacking is going on. Could, and probably will, turn into a cluster f@$k. But as it is, players got to have a good dose of multitasking awareness to be successful at XM....so what's one more layer gonna do? :p

What if when you first started Wolverine you had to make a specific timed combo for wolverine to break out of the water tank. Then if you made it you would start running the halls in a multi-ball just like it is now. If you miss the combo the mode ends with him screaming nooo and he is still trapped in the water tank. ??

#6 10 years ago

The way Wolverine is right now is probably one of the main reasons I got rid of mine. He's such a huge and close toy that most people who play the game just keep hitting him, thus it's not X-Men, but Weapon X Multiball: THE GAME. It's literally the easiest multiball start in any game ever, which makes it suck....and then it starts over and over and over (unless you complete it, then it's 10 shots before it starts over and over lol). Good mutliballs have a satisfying start...you earn them. Wolverine needs some kind of mode...something like "hit a few shots, then hit Wolv before a hurry-up counts down...if you hit him, then Weapon X Multiball starts". Even though I can make the choice NOT to hit Wolverine and avoid the Multiball somewhat, I realized that's an unsatisfying approach to playing a game.

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from tron1969:

What if when you first started Wolverine you had to make a specific timed combo for wolverine to break out of the water tank. Then if you made it you would start running the halls in a multi-ball just like it is now. If you miss the combo the mode ends with him screaming nooo and he is still trapped in the water tank. ??

That makes the hardest and most in depth of hero modes even harder in my opinion.

#8 10 years ago

Wolverine should have been the narrator for the entire game. He should just stand as a bash toy and have a combo meter that fills up to start weapon X mb. The game is fun but I sold mine because of all the awesome ideas out in the open that pretty much didn't get used.

#9 10 years ago

Wolverine was, unfortunately, the narrator for 1.23 code. He would not shut up. Drove me right up the wall. Thank goodness 1.24 fixed that issue.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Apollyon:

Wolverine was, unfortunately, the narrator for 1.23 code. He would not shut up. Drove me right up the wall. Thank goodness 1.24 fixed that issue.

To be fair, that really wasn't narration

#11 10 years ago

I sometimes wonder how much better this game could have been with an extra set of inserts at each shot.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from judremy:

I sometimes wonder how much better this game could have been with an extra set of inserts at each shot.

I was just thinking the same thing for the first time this evening.

I keep hearing people saying combos, combos, combos. I personally don't think combos are a requirement for a good game. I also have no idea how they would implement these with the inserts that this game has and the fact that both a hero (white name inserts) and a villain (red arrow inserts) can be running at the same time. How would the game display available combo shots without being a confusing mess? If they do implement combos I would much rather they not use the inserts at all to display combo info as apposed to making the inserts a confusing mess.

The inserts (the ones that are there) still need more work done to them (variable flashing speeds to indicate different things ex: jackpot building vs damage), but I'm quite confident that can be done.....but I'm not sure if adding combos will throw a wrench in the works.

I would much rather see completed hero shots do more damage if used in a villain mode than implementing combos. Scoring combos are simply something that don't have much interest in. If they can be tracked and combo info displayed on the DMD and a sound effect...great, but don't make the inserts a crazy mess tracking them and showing what is available.

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I was just thinking the same thing for the first time this evening.
I keep hearing people saying combos, combos, combos. I personally don't think combos are a requirement for a good game. I also have no idea how they would implement these with the inserts that this game has and the fact that both a hero (white name inserts) and a villain (red arrow inserts) can be running at the same time. How would the game display available combo shots without being a confusing mess? If they do implement combos I would much rather they not use the inserts at all to display combo info as apposed to making the inserts a confusing mess.
The inserts (the ones that are there) still need more work done to them (variable flashing speeds to indicate different things ex: jackpot building vs damage), but I'm quite confident that can be done.....but I'm not sure if adding combos will throw a wrench in the works.
I would much rather see completed hero shots do more damage if used in a villain mode than implementing combos. Scoring combos are simply something that don't have much interest in. If they can be tracked and combo info displayed on the DMD and a sound effect...great, but don't make the inserts a crazy mess tracking them and showing what is available.

I am of the opinion that the combos should be like in WH2O where you just have to learn which shot combinations make a combo. No lights or anything to indicate it on the playfield, but show on the DMD. If they DO want to include lights, then have the red arrow go solid for a combo shot.

#14 10 years ago

I guess I'm in the minority on the Weapon X multiball. I'm running 1.24 on factory default except free play and I added 10 seconds to Iceman.

Over the weekend I made it to Danger Room 3 times. In those three games I only started Weapon X a second time once...and that's because I didn't complete it the first time and was actually trying to re-start it.

Once it's completed it takes like 11 hits to restart it. I'm not sure I've ever restarted it after it was completed...or if I have...it wasn't really noticeable. I have more of an issue restarting Cyclope trying to start Storm and Rouge.

My thinking is...most non-pinball people love to play multiball. Getting multiball 'by accident' is pretty cool to a person that seldom plays. This could be either on route or when non-pinheads come over.

Add this with a pinhead...that should be able to make the shots...or in this case...avoid hitting Wolverines. I think the way Weapon X is used now...is about perfect for both types of players

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

I guess I'm in the minority on the Weapon X multiball. I'm running 1.24 on factory default except free play and I added 10 seconds to Iceman.
Over the weekend I made it to Danger Room 3 times. In those three games I only started Weapon X a second time once...and that's because I didn't complete it the first time and was actually trying to re-start it.
Once it's completed it takes like 11 hits to restart it. I'm not sure I've ever restarted it after it was completed...or if I have...it wasn't really noticeable. I have more of an issue restarting Cyclope trying to start Storm and Rouge.
My thinking is...most non-pinball people love to play multiball. Getting multiball 'by accident' is pretty cool to a person that seldom plays. This could be either on route or when non-pinheads come over.
Add this with a pinhead...that should be able to make the shots...or in this case...avoid hitting Wolverines. I think the way Weapon X is used now...is about perfect for both types of players

I agree with most everything you have said. The only things I would elaborate on is I don't think any hero mode (which is what Weapon X Multiball is, as of now) should be re-playable after they are beat until after Danger Room. An option for this would be best, but I'm all for just turning them off myself. I tend to get more Beast restarts (probably from balls hitting the pops and going up into his switch) more than anything. Phoenix is also just asking for it since she is the easier of the lock shots....and as you said, Cyclops because of his shot being an upper flipper access shot.

I also think adding the Xavier shot as a left arrow shot in Weapon X Multiball would improve my thoughts on it. When the left arrows are the "priority" fast flashing ones. Beast is really your only shot available. How are you going to hit Rogue or Storm without hitting Beast or Cyclops first? When the right arrows should be hit you have Cyclops, Iceman and Phoenix you can hit. It makes the whole mode feel lopsided and I find myself hoping that every set of fast flashing shots will be on the right side. Adding Xavier as a left shot would help even it out.

Even though I think all hero modes should be done with after they are beat...I would say that Weapon X Multiball being repayable makes the most sense and would be the least obtrusive in my opinion. As you said...after Weapon X Multiball is beat it takes quite a few Wolvie hits to restart it. Another thing is...it's a multiball mode. If you are restarting Cyclops after he is already beat you have no real reason to even try to beat it again (from a game progression standpoint). If you do try to beat it and you drain...your are screwed. Since Weapon X is a multiball you can at least play it out and not have the risk of draining down to nothing. Nothing to really gain progression wise, but nothing to lose either.

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from Rcade:

Having said *all* that. I do like the way it is right now. With stacking on, WXMB can turn into quite a strategic mode to initiate to help with other hard modes, to give the player that little edge. As a poor pin player, having that extra ball/ball save can do wonders for expediting modes.
As it is, I use WXMB purely as this kind of tool. I purposefully DON'T compete it, to keep the number of hits to start it low. When I start a villain mode that's a bitch, or something like sentinels, where every shot is valid, starting WXMB is awesome and welcome.
With the stacking now, starting WXMB shouldn't be as much of a "stopper" as it was in the past. And I don't think that the argument that the mode sucks because Wolvie is too easy to hit is invalid. Guys. I SUCK at pinball, but I can hit/miss Wolvie when I want to. I don't spend all game flailing at him, you can_ avoid him rather easily.

Adding the regular Wolverine mode back into the game would be awesome, but I think that one of the great things about the game right now is being able to strategically use Weapon X (and Magneto) as described above by Rcade.

--Luke

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from HighNoon:

Adding the regular Wolverine mode back into the game would be awesome, but I think that one of the great things about the game right now is being able to strategically use Weapon X (and Magneto) as described above by Rcade.
--Luke

That is a good strategy that I rarely think to use. I think if number of Wolvie hits needed to start Weapon X were on instant info I would try to use it more. I do always try to get Sentential started before I start Mags Multiball. I just don't think to make sure I start a villain before starting Weapon X.

I still think if Weapon X is beat (or any other hero mode) it should be done (until after Danger Room). That leads to another strategic question....do you keep throwing Weapon X Multiball and not completing it so you can use it again in a villain mode OR do you beat it so you can get in that Danger Room? I can see throwing it the first time or two, but when you have all or just 1 or 2 heroes left to complete...I would be trying to beat Weapon X Multiball.

That would kinda be like not selecting one of the villain multiballs when it is qualified...so when you get out of whatever villain mode you do play, all you need to do is hit the qualified villain bank 1 more time to re-lite villain at the scoop instantly.

#18 10 years ago

Funny...the only time I look at the DMD is right after a Wolverines shot to see how many times I have to hit it. Glancing shot on the left of him seems to work the best to avoid the magnet. Actually I like the backhand off the side too

If I'm close to a start\restart and a Villain is lit...I'll probably try to get Weapon X MB before say...starting Sentinels or Juggernaut

Quoted from DugFreez:

That is a good strategy that I rarely think to use. I think if number of Wolvie hits needed to start Weapon X were on instant info I would try to use it more. I do always try to get Sentential started before I start Mags Multiball. I just don't think to make sure I start a villain before starting Weapon X.

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I still think if Weapon X is beat (or any other hero mode) it should be done (until after Danger Room). That leads to another strategic question....do you keep throwing Weapon X Multiball and not completing it so you can use it again in a villain mode OR do you beat it so you can get in that Danger Room? I can see throwing it the first time or two, but when you have all or just 1 or 2 heroes left to complete...I would be trying to beat Weapon X Multiball.

I like your thinking here.

--Luke

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from Monster_Bash:

If I'm close to a start\restart and a Villain is lit...I'll probably try to get Weapon X MB before say...starting Sentinels or Juggernaut

...but you can't start a villain mode when Weapon X (or Magneto) multiball is going can you? If I'm thinking correctly, no modes (heroes or villains) can be started when a multiball is running. If they are already started they continue to run, but I don't think you can start them when the multiball is running.

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

...but you can't start a villain mode when Weapon X (or Magneto) multiball is going can you? If I'm thinking correctly, no modes (heroes or villains) can be started when a multiball is running. If they are already started they continue to run, but I don't think you can start them when the multiball is running.

Correct. Can't start a villain while in MB. That's why the placement of MB initiation is so key.

Wolvie is usually the last Hero mode I try to finish. I keep restarting and not finishing until I've gotten all the help I think I need for the Villain modes.

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

I keep hearing people saying combos, combos, combos. I personally don't think combos are a requirement for a good game. I also have no idea how they would implement these with the inserts that this game has and the fact that both a hero (white name inserts) and a villain (red arrow inserts) can be running at the same time. How would the game display available combo shots without being a confusing mess?

IMO with the layout (tough shots) and crazy unpredictability of this pin Combos without a doubt need to be rewarded since they are such a challenge to accomplish. Thankfully, I think the code department at Stern knows this and will likely be addressed with the next update. I believe one way in which combos will be incorporated is by making them add damage to villains. Making villains more approachable and dark phoenix a little more within reach. Well integrated combos are an absolute necessity for this pin to reach it's full potential IMO.

#24 10 years ago

I also have been using wxmb to push me though certain modes. I would be ok with wolvie having his own mode and wxmb being a separate mb but one of them should have the ability to start regardless of beating the mode. I agree with Rcade in that I am not a good pinball player but I am able to avoid starting him for the most part, unless I want to. But having it there can mean the difference between beating modes and not for me.

On combos -- it would be nice if the machine scored and DMD animations dealt with combos.
The game just has to many "very satisfying" possible combo shots to ignore.
No need to change anything on the inserts. I would prioritize combos fairly low on the list of fixes though.

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:

I believe one way in which combos will be incorporated is by making them add damage to villains. Making villains more approachable and dark phoenix a little more within reach. Well integrated combos are an absolute necessity for this pin to reach it's full potential IMO.

This would be very nice.

#26 10 years ago

I didn't know that collecting Heroes helped with the villain modes.

I hope that when combos are accomplished in game there is a nice, loud announcement... Even something as simple as "Combo!" would be cool. Anything to raise the excitement level.

I really hope some of the old music is put back into the game.

#27 10 years ago

I would love the combos to be animations depending on the combination performed. For instance, Cyclops to Storm would show an animation of Colossus. So different X-Men for the combos?

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

I didn't know that collecting Heroes helped with the villain modes.

I don't think they currently do. Although, that would be awesome if it did work out that completed Heros help each shot do more damage in villain modes. What I think some are referring to is that if you can initiate a multi-ball Wolverine or Magneto while in a Villain mode that requires hitting a wide variety of shots it helps complete that mode much more easily.

#29 10 years ago
Quoted from metahugh:

I hope that when combos are accomplished in game there is a nice, loud announcement... Even something as simple as "Combo!" would be cool. Anything to raise the excitement level.

I doubt that will happen. I remember reading that they were staying away from pinball related callouts in this game because X-Men and Magneto wouldn't be yelling "Jackpot" and "Combo" when they were battling. ....because the X-men are real and it's serious business you know.

#30 10 years ago

Different X-men would be cool for Combos or rememberable quotes from the comic books
exp..
"Against an army Wolverine, you might have hope for survival. Against me, you have none! Here me X-Men! No longer am I the woman you knew! I am fire! And life incarnate! Now & forever...I AM PHOENIX!" Uncanny X-Men #134
or
"Sometimes it amazes me how a group can have so many eyes and not see."
-Marrow

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