(Topic ID: 147550)

X-Men (pro) Magneto lock constantly cycling


By redundor

3 years ago



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  • 29 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by mannymasy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

This just started happening recently and I haven't had time to dive into anything to try to figure out what's going on, but I thought I'd post here to see if anyone else has had this same problem. What is happening is that the forks for the magneto lock are randomly moving up and down for no obvious reason. If I lock a ball it stays where it should for a while until the next time it cycles, and then I have 2 ball multiball with normal rules. I think the game must get confused then because it sometimes goes into a 2 ball magneto multiball after about 30 seconds, but if I drain one ball it still knows that the other is on the table so I doesn't end the ball. I am pretty sure the root problem is the cycling of the lock fork. Any one have any tips on where to start looking into this?

#2 3 years ago

Check the switch under Magneto...

#3 3 years ago

I had a similar problem when I owned xmen. I believe the switch needed adjusting. I forgot what I did to adjust it but it was that switch in the middle of the lock area causing the problem.

#4 3 years ago

Could be the switch. I had an issue with the ball lock assembly once. I believe the forks just stay down when the screw, spring and bracket fall off of the bottom of the ball lock mech. If nothing is wrong with the switch maybe look at the coil and mini coil associated with the lock mech.

#5 3 years ago

Thanks for the tips. I didn't have time to look into it today and I probably won't tomorrow what with it being Christmas and all, but I'll update here once I do.

#6 3 years ago

Well, so far no luck with this. I have checked all of the switches in the lock area and the all seem to work fine. The through switches also seem OK. The odd behavior happens when I am in the coil test mode as well though, which is odd. If I test coil #6 for the center lockup, it will pop the forks up and about 1/2 the time coil #7 for the center lockup latch will activate on it's own about a second later and drop the forks back down. Anyone have any suggestions on what else to test? All LED's on the boards are correct, so I don't think it's a power issue.

#7 3 years ago

How do the solder connections look on the mini solenoid that hold/realeases the lockup?

pg b14 of your manual does item#11 look solid as far as wire connections?

is screw 10 starting to come loose causing the plunger head #9 to not catch properly when mini-coil #9 is engaged?

Could check both coils also but would have to remove from circuit.

#8 3 years ago

Have you tested switches 38,39,40 referred to on pg 5 of the manual

does switch 53 work by itself. If you turn the game on light both magneto locks and put one ball up there does it hold 1 ball or does it act weird as described above?

next question would be also do the ball lock targets and wolverine target still function properly in game? (Q3 driver transistor)

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

How do the solder connections look on the mini solenoid that hold/realeases the lockup? pg b14 of your manual does item#11 look solid as far as wire connections?

I am not a soldering expert, so see the attached for the connections to the mini solenoid.
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Quoted from Shoot_Again:

is screw 10 starting to come loose causing the plunger head #9 to not catch properly when mini-coil #9 is engaged? Could check both coils also but would have to remove from circuit.

That screw is nice and tight, but there may be a bit of play in the coil sleeve. Both coils fire properly in test mode, other than the random additional firings from the mini coil.

Quoted from Shoot_Again:

Have you tested switches 38,39,40 referred to on pg 5 of the manual
does switch 53 work by itself.

All switches test fine. I played around with 53 and it works on it's own and it takes a reasonable amount of movement to activate it, such as a ball resting on the switch. I don't thing vibration would move it anywhere close to the amount required to activate it.

Quoted from Shoot_Again:

If you turn the game on light both magneto locks and put one ball up there does it hold 1 ball or does it act weird as described above?

It randomly kicks the balls back out. I just played a game to test it out again. I shot the scoop to choose a villain mode and while my ball was was in there one of the two or three balls locked under magneto was dropped out. I then ended up choosing Jugernaut and played that in multiball for a bit until I let one ball drain. However, the table seemed to know there were two balls on the playfield since it didn't end my ball. However, later in the game the DMD said that I locked ball three, but then it kicked out another ball and started a four ball magneto MB, so it's definitely getting a bit lost somehow.

Quoted from Shoot_Again:

next question would be also do the ball lock targets and wolverine target still function properly in game? (Q3 driver transistor)

Targets, wolverine and magnets all seem to work as expected. (I have the newton ball mod installed if that makes a difference.) I also checked the transistors Q6 and Q7 by powering the table off and checking their resistance compared to ground and neither one read zero/super low.

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#10 3 years ago

I am out of ideas. Maybe someone else can chime in?

Sorry I was not more help.

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Shoot_Again:

I am out of ideas. Maybe someone else can chime in?
Sorry I was not more help.

no worries, thanks for the suggestions. I think i am going to take a close look and make sure it's not slipping due to the slightly loose coil sleeve. If anyone else has something else to check I'll look into that as well

#12 3 years ago

So, take a look at the mechanism. What keeps the forks up? Is it a spring/latch? If so, any chance this isn't purely mechanical and vibration is causing it to unlatch? I need to look at the manual and see what the mech looks like, but when I had this similar issue with CV, it was a spring that was too loose in the boom balloon.

#13 3 years ago

Looking at the manual, it's a classic latch with a small coil and a spring. I would take a look at the spring and see if it's not providing enough tension anymore.

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#14 3 years ago

Yup, that's the part. I am leaning towards it being purely mechanical at this time, so replacing that spring as well as the sleeve for coil #6 probably can't hurt. I'd just like to avoid randomly throwing parts at it. When I have the playfield raised up and check how everything lines up it looks fine, but I think things might be aligned slightly differently when it's down, so maybe it is simply slipping off as Shoot_Again suggested. Actually, thinking about , maybe I should see if I can set up a camera in there and film a game from underneath. That might help show what is happening.

#15 3 years ago

Before you replace the spring, make it a little tighter

#16 3 years ago

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's mechanical. I tested it with the table up and was able to see the mini coil move the plate a release the lockup. While I was checking out my videos to make sure they worked OK, coil #6 for the lockup fired for no reason. The table was in the test mode with coil#6 selected, but there is obviously something weird going on.

Here is a short clip of it resetting after I activated coil #6 for the lockup. I didn't press any buttons after activating coil #6.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from redundor:

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like it's mechanical. I tested it with the table up and was able to see the mini coil move the plate a release the lockup. While I was checking out my videos to make sure they worked OK, coil #6 for the lockup fired for no reason. The table was in the test mode with coil#6 selected, but there is obviously something weird going on.
Here is a short clip of it resetting after I activated coil #6 for the lockup. I didn't press any buttons after activating coil #6.
» YouTube video

Does anyone know if re-uploading the most recent code would be worth trying? If this was a computer I would be tempted to do a reformat at this point just to make sure it wasn't software.

#18 3 years ago
Quoted from redundor:

Does anyone know if re-uploading the most recent code would be worth trying? If this was a computer I would be tempted to do a reformat at this point just to make sure it wasn't software.

I don't think it will fix it. All you have to lose is your high scores, so it cannot really hurt you.

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

I don't think it will fix it. All you have to lose is your high scores, so it cannot really hurt you.

Yeah, that's what I figured.

#20 3 years ago

It's not clear what the root cause is, but I would turn the problem around. What would make the game think it has to release the coil and release the ball? I would spend a bunch of time in switch test making sure that each single switch on the game is only causing a single switch to close. Also I would make sure that vibration isn't causing another switch to close.

Marc

#21 3 years ago

I think it's the switch behind the lock. I would bend it up so its a little harder to close. It sounds like it's activating and forcing the game to release the ball.

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from pintechev:

It's not clear what the root cause is, but I would turn the problem around. What would make the game think it has to release the coil and release the ball? I would spend a bunch of time in switch test making sure that each single switch on the game is only causing a single switch to close. Also I would make sure that vibration isn't causing another switch to close.
Marc

I looked into this and I think you are right about the switches. I unplugged them at the board, as well as all the other switches on the same plugs and there was no resetting. Plugged everything back together and the problem came back, so definitely is related to switches. I played one game and it seemed better, but it didn't magically get fixed. I went back into test mode and when I block any of the switches (rollover or opto) under magneto it causes the lock to reset after a slight delay. As you all suspected, what seems to be happening is the lock closing somehow triggers one of the switches and causing the lock to open again. I cleaned the optos just to be safe and re-seated all the plugs on the two boards underneath and we'll see what happens. I still don't think it's the rollover switch since it takes a good 1/4" of travel before it triggers, but I did re-flow the connections to it. The good news is that I seem to be getting closer to the cause of the problem!

#23 3 years ago

Great news!

#24 3 years ago

When you say you are getting a 2 ball multiball when the gate opens do you see the Magneto animation that signals a "real" multiball has started?
I would check your switches/opto's on the main ball trough (Next to the shooter rod). On occasion mine will spit out an second ball and in a sense gives me a two ball multiball (No animation, just 2 balls on the playing field). When you accidentally end up with 2 balls on the playing field XMen pro doesn't end the turn once the first ball drains and allows you to continue playing until the other ball drains aswell. It seems to me that your game thinks its missing a ball in the main trough and is trying to get back to equilibrium by continuing to spit out the ball in the Magneto lock.

#25 3 years ago

Update, so far so good. Not sure if it was cleaning the opto's or re-seating the plugs, but the resetting issue has gone away for now. I actually didn't end up reflowing the connections to the rollover switch but if it starts acting up again that will be the first place I'll start looking. Once again, thanks for the help!

#26 3 years ago

another update; the lock cycling came back and I managed to track it down to the optical transmitter on the very back switch under Magneto. I guess one side of the diode was cracked and would lose contact with vibration, causing the switch to register and the gate to fall. I replaced the opto and everything now works as it's supposed to. Hopefully this info helps out someone else in the future!

2 years later
#27 1 year ago

I have a similar problem ... I'll review this post quietly ..

#28 1 year ago

a question, how to dismantle the magnet to remove the optos?

#29 1 year ago

I found it ..... it is option 35, I put it to the maximum of time

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