X-Men (LE)
Stern, 2012Quoted from sd_tom:Huh so writing that out.. Seems like wolverine is just too big / problem child.
I have had no switch/ramp problems with wolverine, but I agree he could be a bit smaller. Blocks visibility to the Beast shot and makes that shot pretty tight.
I agree their QC issues must have been compounded by the high heat we had a week or two ago. Happily, it appears that my Wolvie #233 was assembled earlier this week and when I opened it yesterday I saw no issues whatsoever. But reading this thread has been very informative and I think I'll go down and look at it more closely this afternoon.
At least for me, after having a bad string of luck with the build quality in Avatar LE and Tron LE, and then getting a sample pf in my TFLE (not to mention the decal issues), I'm happy to say that AC/DC LTBR and XMLE were both really good, right out of the box.
Quoted from TomGWI:Dimpling pretty normal with new sterns. Try some novus 2 on the scratch.
Mine actually has some rough bumps in it (not divots but points up like a hill/mountain).
Novus 2 my ass. That scratch goes all the way through the clear. I looked on Novus's website and they don't make a "Stern dug a screwdriver into the playfield" scratch remover.
Quoted from jackal2001:Novus 2 my ass. That scratch goes all the way through the clear. I looked on Novus's website and they don't make a "Stern dug a screwdriver into the playfield" scratch remover.
Its been said.. Call Stern or your Distributor or both! Stern is VERY good about standing behind there product. In the Coin-Op Business I don't know anyone else that stands behind there product as well as Stern.. Well Maybe Rowe-Ami Jukeboxes, but that would be a close decision. There is no way you can make every pinball with as many parts as they have perfectly every time, that's why they have support departments. My Subaru which cost 35k had 2 cracked pistons from the factory, a few rattles, a Bad CV Axle and a few other small issues. Its all about how a company solves the issues.
Quoted from Gexchange:Its been said.. Call Stern or your Distributor or both! Stern is VERY good about standing behind there product. In the Coin-Op Business I don't know anyone else that stands behind there product as well as Stern.. Well Maybe Rowe-Ami Jukeboxes, but that would be a close decision. There is no way you can make every pinball with as many parts as they have perfectly every time, that's why they have support departments. My Subaru which cost 35k had 2 cracked pistons from the factory, a few rattles, a Bad CV Axle and a few other small issues. Its all about how a company solves the issues.
I've sent a detailed email with pictures to Chas, Patrick, and copied Borg on it. Borg and Patrick are on vacation now for another week. I wouldn't mind getting an unpopulated pf to have. I doubt that will happen.
Mine also had a problem with the Wolv claw hitting the ramp. The ramp would not move to second position because it was bullseyeing his claw, bending into it, giving up and moving back to original position, then trying it again, and again!
Had to take apart the jet behind Wolv, take Wolv completely apart, make new holes and re-mount him correctly. The way Stern should've. The reason it's annoying is because the Stern guys actually tried to fix it on mine.. the screw plate in Wolv was mounted twice (you can see from impressions) and he was crooked, leaning to the left, and it still wasn't even close to being able to let the ramp by. That was their attempt at a fix: mount Wolv leaning to the left and STILL have his claw impede the ramp so it can't move over. Nice one! This isn't something that rattled loose in shipping, or a switch unadjusted. It was nothing but pure laziness and shite QC from Stern.
As for everything else, seems to work fine so far.
Except the code is glorified pre-production demo code. Scoring doesn't work (Magneto scoring is whacked and doesn't give you credit for your shots, and then Wolv scoring gives you too much!) and once when I got Nightcrawler basically garbage came up on the screen... had a switch/coil test screen flashing, then garbage, then some NC animation, then random numbers, etc. LOL
On the plus side, the shots, lighting, sounds, dots and flow are all top notch! And easily Stern's most attractive game to date.
For what they're charging, though, their QC is just terrible. These are the LE games, and way overpriced; we owners should not have to take them apart when they arrive and finish the correct build of them simply because Stern's employees are too lazy or incompetent to do it themselves. Sending out non-working games with obvious problems (not talking about something that shook loose in shipping) is unacceptable to me. Looks to be common practice after reading this thread.
Quoted from jackal2001:I doubt that will happen.
Why?
As far as I remember that's what they did for some of the Tron LE issues, but good thing you emailed them FAST because there were Tron guys that had issues after a month or two and got jack squat.
I'd still be pissed even with a new blank PF but you better believe that I would play the first one until it's garbage before doing the swap.
*edit* This does seem to be a plethroa of nutty issues for sure.. I know it's a LE and it's complicated stuff on this pin but come on... Tron LE's weren't anywhere near this bad as was being reported by the bajillion people on KLOV that bought them, and even then people were complaining about the QC...this is orders of magnitude worse...... *but*.....at least most of it seems fixable. This is the first time I think I'll ever have been glad I couldn't afford a LE...I would be stomping a new mudhole in someone's pooper...
I am very confident Stern will do the right thing and help everyone who has issues. I know they sent me out replacement optos for my IM without evening asking for proof of ownership. I appreciated that (since I stole it...kidding)
Quoted from Frax:*edit* This does seem to be a plethroa of nutty issues for sure.. I know it's a LE and it's complicated stuff on this pin but come on... TRON LE's weren't anywhere near this bad as was being reported by the bajillion people on KLOV that bought them, and even then people were complaining about the QC...this is orders of magnitude worse...... *but*.....at least most of it seems fixable. This is the first time I think I'll ever have been glad I couldn't afford a LE...I would be stomping a new mudhole in someone's pooper...
In this thread I think there are only around 7-8 people reporting issues, most of them duplicates, and many of them quick adjustment type things. It is not like all LE owners are all having a laundry list of issues, most people reporting problems have one, maybe two. I don't know what was posted when Tron LE hit, but iirc, Tron LEs were also done after the Pros were run (and all niggly issues ironed out there). It is unfortunate that this stuff has gotten through their quality control, but honestly I kind of expected it as the LEs are first, and this is the first run to hit North America. As long as they address the issues, I am good.
Tron LE #325 I recieved had no issues what so ever. It did however have heavy orange peel on clear with a pebble above Quarras head in middle of playfield. After 2-3 emails past back and forth to CS and Borg I recieved a nice new playfield sitting on my porch when I returned from Pinball Expo "11". Which made me pull the trigger on X-MEN. They do stand behind their product.
That mishap that happened to Jackals (pheonix) pf is probably from the QC of the installer trying to figure out the iceman quagmire and dropped the iceman bracket on pf scratching it...(FAIL)
It never hurts to let them know about their product. Just be cordial about it and they will probably assist.
Quoted from rommy:What about this "letting the clear cure" thing...from the bash -
"According to CPR, a clear coat takes 2 months to cure in open air, without wax or steel balls bouncing on it. When you receive a NIB Stern the clear coat is only 2-3 weeks old. http://www.classicplayfields.com/guides.html
Even if the issue is also one of "softer wood" no one seems to follow that curing recommendation as they open, wax, and put hundreds of games on the playfield before the 2 months is up."
I know some of the HE restore guys let the clear cure for even longer. This is my first NIB this way, would letting it cure/harden out of the box make any difference, say in dimpling, at all? or just open and play?
edit - i know there are huge rgp threads about this, what about now though?
I am waiting...This playfield is that nice! It's like a mirror and being that it was born July 9th tells me that it still needs more time. Not sure about the softer wood nowdays??
Quoted from paul_8788:I noticed however that the screw attaching the disc to the motor is sometimes rubbing on the screw at the top of the picture. I tried tighting the hex screw to see if I could get clearance, but it is as tight as I can make it and no go. There is plenty of clearance passed the bottom screw. Only two things I can think of to do:
1) Remove the hex screw and file/grind down a couple of threads. Don't have a file or grinder at the moment though.
2) Take the disc assembly apart and re-align everything so that I have plenty of clearance all around.
Just as an update, looks like this particular problem could be due to my own dumbassery. I took the whole spinning disc mechanism out today just so I could get a better look, and the set screw wasn't tightened against the correct part of the shaft. The shaft has a flat part where the screw is supposed to hit. Either was done wrong at the factory, or more likely when I was trying to figure out the whole noisy disc thing I twisted the disc before I re-tightened the set screw. So, good news, the set screw now has plenty of clearance. The bad news, I still have the banging/vibrating disc. Hopefully Stern will be able to send out a new motor next week.
Whenever I hit the Xavier shot it also counts it as a Storm hit. Is this a coding problem that everyone has?
Quoted from PW79:No way I will buy a NIB run 1 from Stern. Sorry to see my fellow pinheads getting hosed. A NIB purchase should be magical, not a gut wrenching & costly problem.
Even with all these issues in some of the new games it's a near guarantee that a used one will have more issues than any of these, and lets not forget that many used games are commanding higher prices than new. If you find that magical 100% working new or used game, consider yourself very lucky because I have yet to see one.
Quoted from DugFreez:Whenever I hit the Xavier shot it also counts it as a Storm hit. Is this a coding problem that everyone has?
I haven't seen this, but I just might not have been paying enough attention. When I play later today I will keep an eye out.
Outside of the playfield being really tight to pull up, which i asume is from the wood swelling wolverine from GAP play out great. Super fast and everything registers and lines up. consider #198 all set.
Quoted from paul_8788:I haven't seen this, but I just might not have been paying enough attention. When I play later today I will keep an eye out.
Magneto #82 doesn't do this. Xavier counts alone, as does Storm.
Quoted from paul_8788:I haven't seen this, but I just might not have been paying enough attention. When I play later today I will keep an eye out.
It's pretty easy to check for if you are looking. I would like to hear from some others as all the switches in questions check out fine.
The issue is this: When I hit the Xavier shot it counts it as an Xavier hit and kicks the ball up the VUK...then when the ball hits the switch going down the ramp...it register a Storm hit.
Storm hits from her ramp also register as Storm hits on my machine. So the only real way to look for this is to do an Xavier shot before the Strom ramp is even hit. When I do this....my machine shows as collect both characters.
It seems more like a programing bug to me. A Storm hit should have to be a hit to her ramp entrance followed by the switch that is halfway down the return ramp (that seems to be the only real reason for her to even have a switch on her ramp entrance. In a multiball mode I'm not sure how the machine would be expected to distinguish her hits from switch activations coming from Xavier returns....but I don't know if that would even be needed in gameplay.
EDIT: After looking into it farther I am more confused. Getting Storm with an Xavier hit doesn't always happen to me. I did realize though that the left ramp entrance isn't ever used to determine if the ramp is used for Storm or the skill shot. Every shot to the left ramp exit switch alone is considered a Storm hit (or the skill shot if it's at the opening of the ball).
I am more confused as to why the Xavier and Storm hit from hitting the VUK doesn't happen everytime (or for everyone). My best guess would be that they have a grace period in the software that is supposed to "deactivate" that switch as a Storm hit for a certain amount of time after the Xavier switch is hit (and the ball is kicked up).
Seems like sloppy programing anyway you cut it. The skill shot and Storm shots SHOULD have to include switch hits from the ramp entrance AND the ramp exit switch. As it stands now the ramp entrance switch is useless (except for a sound effect) when it should be being used to determine if the ramp exit hits are coming from Xavier or from the Storm shot.
Anyone willing to take the glass off, start a game, pluck the ball from the shooter lane and put in Xavier's hole, a few times to see if you ever get the extra Storm collected?
Quoted from DugFreez:It's pretty easy to check for if you are looking. I would like to hear from some others as all the switches in questions check out fine.
The issue is this: When I hit the Xavier shot it counts it as an Xavier hit and kick the ball up the VUK...then when the ball hits the switch going down the ramp...it register a Storm hit.
Storm hits from her ramp also register as Storm hits on my machine. So the only real way to look for this is to do an Xavier shot before the Strom ramp is even hit. When I do this....my machine shows as collect both characters.
It seems more like a programing bug to me. A Storm hit should have to be a hit to her ramp entrance followed by the switch that is halfway down the return ramp (that seems to be the only real reason for her to even have a switch on her ramp entrance. In a multiball mode I'm not sure how the machine would be expected to distinguish her hits from switch activations coming from Xavier returns....but I don't know if that would even be needed in gameplay.
My guess is the switch that registers Storm is registering from vibration fron the xavier vuk. Try in switch test and see if both switches are active when the ball hits the ramp from the vuk.
Quoted from TomGWI:My guess is the switch that registers Storm is registering from vibration fron the xavier vuk. Try in switch test and see if both switches are active when the ball hits the ramp from the vuk.
The only switch to register Storm is the one on the ramp exit....so it is ALWAYS activated after the ball leaves the VUK from a Xavier shot.
I just can't figure out why it sometimes does it and others it doesn't.
My X-Men LE arrived today and had a couple issues out of the box that had to be corrected.
1. They shipped me a Wolverine model instead of Magneto. I was fine with either, so we worked it out and I decided to keep the Wolverine. The blue was darker than I thought (good thing) and it looked really good.
2. Right rear leg bolts were stripped. Had to use a tap to correct the issue. I had already decided to replace the black bolts with new chrome bolts, so luckily I had a set of leg bolts to replace the stripped ones.
3. Right lower flipper was sticking because the wrong type of coil sleeve was intalled. They installed the shorter coil sleeve used with smaller coils and the plunger was binding against the metal coil bracket because the sleeve was too short. I had some extra coil sleeves in my spare parts and fixed the issue by replacing the coil sleeve. I can understand a flipper sticking and simply needing an adjustment, but using the wrong coil sleeve is pretty bad and not catching the issue is even worse. You couldn't play a single game because of the flipper sticking, so someone either didn't do any test plays or just didn't care.
Everything else seems to be fine and it's playing great now. I really like the art and game play and can't wait for the next set of code. I'm happy with my purchase, but it's a little scary to have stripped bolts and obvious game play issues that should theoretically be caught during QA testing.
Quoted from TomGWI:My guess is the switch that registers Storm is registering from vibration fron the xavier vuk. Try in switch test and see if both switches are active when the ball hits the ramp from the vuk.
You were right....but it's still sloppy programming and there is really no excuse for it.
When the ball hits the ramp from the VUK it usually hits hard enough to trigger the ramp exit switch. Then when the ball actually rolls through it....it counts as another hit.
My guess is the game is programed to ignore that first ramp exit switch hit after the Xavier switch and basically turning it off as a Storm hit.
Why not use the ramp entrance switch for SOMETHING! 
A problem like this could be so easily avoided. There are 2 switchs that the ball HAS to go through to be a Storm hit....why not use them!?!
Now I have to go about adjusting a switch to not be sensative enought to be triggered by the ball hitting the ramp from the VUK, but keep it sensative enough to count all the real ramp shots.
UPDATE: At least it was an easy switch to adjust. A little push down of the blade took care of it.
Quoted from DugFreez:The only switch to register Storm is the one on the ramp exit....so it is ALWAYS activated after the ball leaves the VUK from a Xavier shot.
I just can't figure out why it sometimes does it and others it doesn't.
I just tested it out, and my Xavier shot isn't activating Storm. Not during the ramp up to Magneto multiball, nor during the hero modes afterwards. To test I just took the glass off and put balls through the VUK. Tried 5 or 6 times, no Storm activation. Let me know if there is anything else you want me to check/try.
Quoted from paul_8788:I just tested it out, and my Xavier shot isn't activating Storm. Not during the ramp up to Magneto multiball, nor during the hero modes afterwards. To test I just took the glass off and put balls through the VUK. Tried 5 or 6 times, no Storm activation. Let me know if there is anything else you want me to check/try.
Thanks. See post above for the reason for the problem.
I've read through all these issues and none, except the 1 person who had a scratch in the playfield, seem that bad to threaten the fun factor of this machine. It seems like there are so many parts in this game that no matter what Stern does there will ultimately be some small issue with something here and there. Overall the biggest issue seems to be a software code update, so that doesn't seem to bad to me. I'm looking forward to a few " mods " by Pinsiders or other modders that will probably strengthen or change these issues soon and improve the overall feel and stability of the game.
Ok, sending a Wolverine instead of a Magneto is pretty bad QC. I will give you that one.
The short coil sleeve thing is pretty bad, too. Looks like they have good build teams and sub par build teams. Luck of the draw on who builds yours, I guess. These build teams are brought in for assembly, from my understanding. They are contract labor, and that is the way it has always been done.
Quoted from gambit3113:Ok, sending a Wolverine instead of a Magneto is pretty bad QC. I will give you that one.
The short coil sleeve thing is pretty bad, too. Looks like they have good build teams and sub par build teams. Luck of the draw on who builds yours, I guess. These build teams are brought in for assembly, from my understanding. They are contract labor, and that is the way it has always been done.
Sounds like the A team called in sick during the heat wave.
Quoted from nlrobert:My X-Men LE arrived today and had a couple issues out of the box that had to be corrected.
1. They shipped me a Wolverine model instead of Magneto. I was fine with either, so we worked it out and I decided to keep the Wolverine. The blue was darker than I thought (good thing) and it looked really good.
2. Right rear leg bolts were stripped. Had to use a tap to correct the issue. I had already decided to replace the black bolts with new chrome bolts, so luckily I had a set of leg bolts to replace the stripped ones.
3. Right lower flipper was sticking because the wrong type of coil sleeve was intalled. They installed the shorter coil sleeve used with smaller coils and the plunger was binding against the metal coil bracket because the sleeve was too short. I had some extra coil sleeves in my spare parts and fixed the issue by replacing the coil sleeve. I can understand a flipper sticking and simply needing an adjustment, but using the wrong coil sleeve is pretty bad and not catching the issue is even worse. You couldn't play a single game because of the flipper sticking, so someone either didn't do any test plays or just didn't care.
Everything else seems to be fine and it's playing great now. I really like the art and game play and can't wait for the next set of code. I'm happy with my purchase, but it's a little scary to have stripped bolts and obvious game play issues that should theoretically be caught during QA testing.
That is unacceptable QC. Did the box say magneto as well or did it say wolverine? If it said wolverine, sounds like a mess up by the admin dept.
I'll be beyond pissed if I open my wolverine and magnetos red underoos are staring at me.
So who's getting a magneto that ordered a wolverine then since wolverines seem completely sold out? It's going back if magneto ends up on my porch 
Quoted from sd_tom:So who's getting a magneto that ordered a wolverine then since wolverines seem completely sold out? It's going back if magneto ends up on my porch
I was thinking the same thing. If its mine I'm demanding a 50% rebate for stupidity. Even then I don't think my wife will want it. Ugh, now I'm even more stressed (lol?). This is an evil evil thread for any XMLE owners who haven't received their machine. lol.
Quoted from sd_tom:It's going back if magneto ends up on my porch
That's your mistake. Magneto is *clearly* the superior version.
No room for opinions to differ on this one. It's a fact.
Quoted from RobT:That's your mistake. Magneto is *clearly* the superior version.
No room for opinions to differ on this one. It's a fact.
I'd be pretty disappointed to receive a Wolverine too, but keeping it isn't out of the question; it's only a minor downgrade. 
Quoted from Baiter:I'd be pretty disappointed to receive a Wolverine too, but keeping it isn't out of the question; it's only a minor downgrade.
Cough....The Wolv is a deterrent! Something immaterial that interferes with or delays action or progress.
Quoted from gambit3113:Ok, sending a Wolverine instead of a Magneto is pretty bad QC. I will give you that one.
The short coil sleeve thing is pretty bad, too. Looks like they have good build teams and sub par build teams. Luck of the draw on who builds yours, I guess. These build teams are brought in for assembly, from my understanding. They are contract labor, and that is the way it has always been done.
Was this in a magneto box? You really scored. The magneto is worth a bit less right now. Lucky bastard
Quoted from RobT:Magneto is *clearly* the superior version.
Only if youre into gay purple helmets..... 
I have finally given up on adjusting my Wolverine. He is bent back like he is poppin' a freakin' wheelie.
This is the only way I can get him adjusted to keep his claw out of the ramp and also register hits. I have also melted out his back holes with a soldering iron and slid him as far to the right as I can. I was told to try to bend him forward and get his claw under the ramp, but when I do that......his plate in the back wont even reach the plastic peg to trigger the switch. So switch adjusting does no good in that case.
What a craptastic piece of a custom toy. If they were having it made to their specs....why have his claws sticking out right where the ramp is going to be? Why have a low hanging elbow? Why make his base so fat that a tricky shot through the pops becomes a near impossable shot through the pops? Why put him on a pivot to trigger a peg that triggers a switch? Wouldn't it be better to just put him on a switch?
I may start hammering and prying on him again if I decide to do some arm bending with a heat gun, but I really don't understand how to get his plate in the back to hit the peg that hits the switch unless he is laid back the way I have him. When looking from a players perspective it doesn't looks as bad as the ball point of view picture. It just bothers me that one of the main playfield toys wasn't even working when I got the game and it was up to me to bend, pry and melt to get it working.
Quoted from playernumber4:My wolverine figure has plenty of room for the ball to get under it, and no balls have been trapped by it. I had one ball get stuck in the top of the upper loop in the trough for a switch that has a wire rollover...I'll check on that next time I get the cab open.
I had to adjust the leaf switch on the right side flipper button to get the upper and lower flippers to co-ordinate properly. The playfield has lots of clearcoat on it, but upon close inspection there are a few "fisheye" dimples from debris in their spray room. Based on my previous years of experience painting cars I'd guess that were some small specs of silicone from their sandpaper left on the playfield when they clearcoated it.
On the right edge of the playfield it looks like they slammed a piece of metal between the layers of the plywood for the purpose of some screws on the playfield threading into it. It does not look like they cut a slot for that piece of metal either (Grrrr....) and a corner of it was sticking out like the corner of a razor blade waiting to cut my hand and scratch up the inside edges of the cabinet (see attached pics). I pounded the offending area back and covered up the entires edges of both sides of the playfield with thin felt tape to prevent future scratching of the cabinet anyway.
The red apron on my Magneto has a "scarfed up" line across it. Looks like they left the playfield stored up against the cabinet head with no protection between them while it was being moved around the assembly area. Nice QC Stern...
And of course, there is the multiball not adding to the score issue that has already been noted.
Has anyone else looked at this area on the side of their playfield? Can you tell me if your game has that plate pounded in between the layers of the wood, or was mine just done that way because they stripped the threads in the wood for those screws. Thanks for any help.... 001_(2).JPG 002_(2).JPG
Quoted from playernumber4:Has anyone else looked at this area on the side of their playfield? Can you tell me if your game has that plate pounded in between the layers of the wood, or was mine just done that way because they stripped the threads in the wood for those screws. Thanks for any help....
Looks like a layer of ply was missing.
It's quite common for there to be missing layers in the middle of a sheet of plywood.
When they've cut up the big sheets into playfield sizes ... Wooooh missing layer.
Someone should have picked this up. And at least filled it. Preferably not used it.
Dave.
I have finally given up on adjusting my Wolverine. He is bent back like he is poppin' a freakin' wheelie.
This is the only way I can get him adjusted to keep his claw out of the ramp and also register hits. I have also melted out his back holes with a soldering iron and slid him as far to the right as I can. I was told to try to bend him forward and get his claw under the ramp, but when I do that......his plate in the back wont even reach the plastic peg to trigger the switch. So switch adjusting does no good in that case.
What a craptastic piece of a custom toy. If they were having it made to their specs....why have his claws sticking out right where the ramp is going to be? Why have a low hanging elbow? Why make his base so fat that a tricky shot through the pops becomes a near impossable shot through the pops? Why put him on a pivot to trigger a peg that triggers a switch? Wouldn't it be better to just put him on a switch?
I may start hammering and prying on him again if I decide to do some arm bending with a heat gun, but I really don't understand how to get his plate in the back to hit the peg that hits the switch unless he is laid back the way I have him. When looking from a players perspective it doesn't looks as bad as the ball point of view picture. It just bothers me that one of the main playfield toys wasn't even working when I got the game and it was up to me to bend, pry and melt to get it working.
Mine came from the factory with a very slight lean to the left which keeps the claw out of the ramp and the ball from getting stuck under the arm. My figure is positioned to where the ice ramp notch is where the claw is positioned when enabled.
DugFreeze, you sound like a man on the verge of destroying the wolverine figure; i get the same way sometimes when futzing with something and it's not going well.. So keep adjusting just a little too far and then it's broke / turns into a Much bigger project to recover. Now I slow down and take deep breaths YMMV. That, and maybe get a new one on order 
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