(Topic ID: 20470)

X-Men LE added to the archive


By robin

7 years ago



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  • 20 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by The_Dude_Abides
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    #1 7 years ago

    I have added X-Men LE to the Pinside archive. I'm quite happy with the way the split backglass image turned out!

    You Pinsiders can now add this variant of the game to your collections, wishlists etc.

    http://pinside.com/pinball/archive/x-men-le/gallery

    I know there has been discussion about splitting the latest Stern games into two separate archive entries. I realize there are some downsides to this but the advatages far outweigh these (collections, wishlists, archive, gallery, market etc). I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    xmenlepola.png

    #2 7 years ago

    Now if I only had the game =-)

    Many on here will thank you.

    #3 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    I agree 100%. No matter how many versions there are, the game as a whole should be treated and rated as a single effort from the manufacturer.
    I think a simple checkbox when yo ure rating, or when you are adding a game to your collection, should be enough to allow some differentiation. It would allow the correct game to be viewed in your collection, ut it woudl also give future visitors the ability to filter the main average rating by selecting a specific version. Then they could see an LE or special edition rating within the main one.

    Split-screen looks cool

    Edit:
    I was wondering yesterday why a game like Predator is already in the system, while JPOP's new developments, like MG and BHZA, are not?

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    It is hard to say. Obviously, games like the WOZ, Adams Family and SM should all be rated as a single game as they play identical. Also, games like Tron that are nearly identical (if you take out the lighted ramps the only difference is the drop targets and a slight code difference) could be rated together fairly.

    However, games like AC/DC premium and XMen have a lot of different features. In XMen the three main playfield toys are not even on the pro. Each of the last Stern LE's has been more and more different from the pro and they seem to keep making higher numbers of LE's. Also, they are making a lot of these LE's (550 of XMen, even more of AC/DC) so they are making enough to justify it having their own ranking . . . twice as many as the BBB is enough to not even call it a botique run.

    Anyway, I think you go on a game by game basis for which games are merged and which games are different. As the LE's continue to get more different, it will make less sense to rate them together moving forward but you shouldn't have a hard and fast rule.

    #5 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    I was wondering yesterday why a game like Predator is already in the system, while JPOP's new developments, like MG and BHZA, are not?

    My rule of thumb here is "proof". As soon as there is enough evidence out there of the game actually being made, it will be added to the archive!

    That or if enough people nag me about adding it

    Please also note that normally speaking, one-offs are not added to the database. Only games available to the general public and with a substantial production run (or from a manufacturer that produced substantial runs for other games) will be considered for inclusion.

    Quoted from Drano:

    No matter how many versions there are, the game as a whole should be treated and rated as a single effort from the manufacturer.

    That kind of is my idea too.

    Quoted from Drano:

    I think a simple checkbox when yo ure rating, or when you are adding a game to your collection, should be enough to allow some differentiation.

    Implementing a "version selector" when rating, managing collection, adding to location on map, etc. has been considered by us and researched in depth, but it just has WAY to many implications (and would take too much time to build). The simple solution was splitting some games into multiple archive versions. We decided to have a max of two versions. It's not the most elegant solution but we had to be realistic.

    #6 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    No matter how many versions there are, the game as a whole should be treated and rated as a single effort from the manufacturer.

    That kind of is my idea too.

    I really think you should take it game by game. If the game play is the same or substantially the same like most LE's then of course take it as a single effort; but if the game play is totally different and there are different playfields and the price point of the game is 40% or greater different then you really can't treat them like they are the same game.

    Just think if Family Guy was made during the era of LE's and the pro did not have the Stewie mini playfield . . . could you really treat that as the same game? Now, with that basis, think about AC/DC that has an extra playfield and many other features that directly impact game play. Now, with that basis, look at X-Men where the different toys are even more pronounced. The pro and LEs are getting further and further apart and their price points reflect that - they shouldn't be treated as a single effort because they are totally differnt games targeting totally different markets (at least AC/DC and X-Men are that way anyway).

    #7 7 years ago

    Very nice. But I don't think it will be far ratings till the finished code comes out. As of now there a lot of bugs that need to be fixed

    #8 7 years ago

    Whilst LE's are very different, do we really want 2 of everything in the top 100 etc??

    Combining makes sense.

    Maybe have a separate chart that shows LE v Pro scores.

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Whilst LE's are very different, do we really want 2 of everything in the top 100 etc??
    Combining makes sense.
    Maybe have a separate chart that shows LE v Pro scores.

    I like that idea since it would prevent having two separate entries, yet would still allow for ratings of the two different machines (pro vs. LE).

    When considering the parameters of the rating system here at Pinside, it is very clear that a pro and LE of the same model will be rated differently. From that standpoint it doesn't make sense to have just one rating for both versions.

    #10 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    I AGREE

    #11 7 years ago
    Quoted from Shoot_Again:

    Now if I only had the game =-)
    Many on here will thank you.

    Are you interested in coming and checking it out this week?

    #12 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    . I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    +7.93

    #13 7 years ago

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    #14 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    +1

    #15 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    +1
    If the games have the same PF then fine. If they games play completely different like ACDC, TF and now X then that is different. Heck, even AVATAR LE plays differently than its pro version. If they play different they should be rated differently.

    #16 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    I was wondering yesterday why a game like Predator is already in the system, while JPOP's new developments, like MG and BHZA, are not?

    I was wondering that too....the "proof" is that people have paid big bucks for Jpop and not a dime has been laid down on Predator.......but who knows...

    #17 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    OK. If I agree to this, and I can...we need to be able to completely delete our own ratings if needed. I have ratings on "pro" games when all I have played are the premium. Why? When I first rated the machine there was no differentiation between the 2 then when the LE's were added, my ratings defaulted to the Pro. I think that is a problem.

    #18 7 years ago

    Thanks Robin for adding X-Men LE, I feel that LE's now play different than pro and they need different ratings.

    I was looking at TF lately and many people have different views on LE and Pro regarding the game play and flow.

    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    Note: I AM agreeing with Bemmett on this one!!

    #20 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Note: I AM agreeing with Bemmett on this one!!

    GET OUT!!!

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    I disagree, they are different games and need different ratings. It was made evident by AC/DC, there is much more love for the LE than the Pro, HUGE difference in the ratings and in my opinion rightfully so. Wasn't so evident in Tron or Transformers(although I don't know why). But I think the difference in the games needs to be played out. I am thinking ahead to X-men as well, definitely big differences in the games themselves that justify having the differences and likes/dislikes pointed out.

    My only objection is that a manufacturer (like Stern) gets rewarded with a top 10 pin in the ratings for an LE that they made a couple of hundred units of, while the effort put forth by the company on the project as a whole (including the pro) is only mediocre. ACDC is a great example.

    Since Robin suggests that it's going to be a huge PITA to add the ability to break out the combined ratings to see the pro and LE scores as a sub-set, the only fair thing is to split games. But when you have such huge spread between games like TAF and TAFG, which have almost no real differences, it makes little sense. Then it becomes an arbitrary decision on which LEs are worthy of being split from the main run.

    #22 7 years ago
    Quoted from Drano:

    My only objection is that a manufacturer (like Stern) gets rewarded with a top 10 pin in the ratings for an LE that they made a couple of hundred units of, while the effort put forth by the company on the project as a whole (including the pro) is only mediocre. ACDC is a great example.
    Since Robin suggests that it's going to be a huge PITA to add the ability to break out the combined ratings to see the pro and LE scores as a sub-set, the only fair thing is to split games. But when you have such huge spread between games like TAF and TAFG, which have almost no real differences, it makes little sense. Then it becomes an arbitrary decision on which LEs are worthy of being split from the main run.

    I think 550 games is a pretty reasonable number in the modern day. BBB doesn't have that many out. Neither will jpop. Many people report that some games like shrek had fewer machines than that. I hear what you are saying, but if stern didn't make a pro at all would we not rank the LE? Should we punish stern for making games affordable for rout opperators?

    #23 7 years ago

    I feel the LE's should be rated separately. The ratings don't include just ratings for gameplay, they include other aspects of the machines that are different from LE to PRO. Artwork / backglass, trim, even the sound (AC/DC had a better woofer for example).

    #24 7 years ago

    Looks like the people who desire the LE's (if they are a different playfield like AC/DC and X-Men) to remain separate are in the majority by a decent number - at least in this thread (which, granted, is going to draw more people with that view since X-Men is in the title). Perhaps we should do a formal poll?

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from Cobray:

    Note: I AM agreeing with Bemmett on this one!!

    Note: Hell might have just frozen over and I just saw a pig fly by my window.

    #26 7 years ago
    Quoted from vislor:

    I feel the LE's should be rated separately. The ratings don't include just ratings for gameplay, they include other aspects of the machines that are different from LE to PRO. Artwork / backglass, trim, even the sound (AC/DC had a better woofer for example).

    I agree

    #27 7 years ago

    One thing that may be better (or an idea to consider) is to have two lists top 100 up to the year 2000, and second list top 50 in the 2000's and beyond.

    With one list, every new game that come in two versions if they both make it to the top 100 will bump two old games off the top 100 list.

    If you have an old list that stops at the year 2000 you won't be bumping off games.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from bemmett:

    Note: Hell might have just frozen over and I just saw a pig fly by my window.

    HAHAHA!

    I am eagerly awaiting your comparison of AC/DC and X-Men..I am starting to really like the X-Men rules! That video game guy has some good ideas

    #29 7 years ago

    I have been suggesting the ratings only list one version per title. Easiest solution is to include highest featured offering, or le version. This is the most complete version anyways. You could click on button to take you to page with all models and even rank them but only le would be included in top 200.

    #30 7 years ago

    Only consideration you would need to make is how to handle TAF & TAFG. Most everyone rates TAF in top 10. TAFG rates much lower for some reason. You would maybe need to make an exception for this pin and display ratings for TAF but call it TAFG.

    Another way to approach this is to list one version per title, but not be limited to always picking the LE. Instead you choose which ever one is ranked highest to list in the top 200.

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from robin:

    I do still think we should combine the ratings for multiple versions of a game into one Top 100 entry per game.

    I agree with this as well but I think there can be a compromise here. If you combined all the rankings for the pro & LEs for one top 100/200 ranking then set it up so when you click on the rating you can see the breakdown (rating wise) for the different versions. That way you can still rate each individually and see what the different versions are at within the umbrella ranking of the top 100/200.

    That way you kind of get the best of both worlds. Not sure it is possible just throwing it out there.

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