X-Men (LE)
Stern, 2012
X-Men (Pro)
Stern, 2012I know there is a "It's time to release new code" thread and a "Hey, they released the new code thread", but I thought I would start a thread to talk about the new code so Pinsiders don't have to jump back and forth to discuss this software release.
Anyone else having issues updating X-Men Pro? I updated to 1.04 successfully when that came out, but now trying to install 1.05 the system reboots just after starting the Verify phase of the update.
Quoted from leaffan67:New code is not thrilling me. Danger Room now nearly impossible again as you can't stack hero modes. You can stack a hero on top of a villain mode (which I think is good). So far, I think I liked the last code better!
From what I hear you can still stack. It's fully configurable in the settings. By default hero stacking is off, but you can turn it back on. Mine is updating now, so I should know for sure soon! 
stacking hero modes wasn't good and there is no way it could ever have worked in a completely satisfying way even in theory due to professor x's mode.
Quoted from DugFreez:I know there is a "It's time to release new code" thread and a "Hey, they released the new code thread", but I thought I would start a thread to talk about the new code so Pinsiders don't have to jump back and forth to discuss this software release.
So you created a new thread to reduce the clutter of the other similar threads? Well done.
Quoted from YZRider926:My only question is with this update has the price of the box gone up as well.
If your looking to sell, no. If your looking to buy, yes.
Quoted from leaffan67:New code is not thrilling me. Danger Room now nearly impossible again as you can't stack hero modes. You can stack a hero on top of a villain mode (which I think is good). So far, I think I liked the last code better!
If your expecting to get to danger room in the first 10 minutes of a new update, your missing the point of a mini-wizard mode.
Quoted from sk8ball:Would have rather seen combos implemented in this update and DR tweaked in later updates.
+1
As I known hater of X-men that held onto the game I can say this,
I loathed X-men and waited on code.
I do not love the game though I no longer hate it.
As it stands right now X-men should be in the top 50 with this code. If they continue to improve it then maybe it would be a legitimate top 30. I do not think this game will ever be top 20 though this new code shows promise to take a crappy bottom 200 game to me and put it just in the top 50.
That says something. It still has faults and problems I saw but it is no longer plagued the way it was. I expect more to come and it to be polished off a little better though this update is how the game should have played when it was released.
I played a couple of games and it's easy to see that 1.24 is a huge improvement over 1.23 and looks to be the best version so far. That's the way updates are supposed to work. They are supposed to IMPROVE the game.
I was really impressed with the stack options. I had heard they were going to have that, but I didn't expect 2 option (stack heroes + villains and also stack villains + heroes), nice.
At first glance it looks like they have improved how the inserts work (mainly because the hero modes aren't all stacked on each other), but they still need work. There is no need to STILL have the white hero inserts with their names on or flashing all of the time when you are not in a mode. That is what the center wheel is for. To see who you have completed, who you have attempted and who you have not attempted. It looks like they have gone with the red arrow to show what is needed for villains and name inserts for the hero modes (good job), but I haven't played enough to really comment to much on that. I still didn't notice a difference between jackpot build shots and damage shots in Jugs mode (that would be so easy to distinguish between them with the arrow inserts either flashing or not flashing).
Saved villain progression is really nice, but I wish the villain select screen showed the progress on each one as you were selecting. It's a great feature, but it would seem much less "tacked on" if the progress was shown.
The complaints and hopefully, pleasant surprises, will come later. There are still bugs there (Hellfire targets still light up and make a sound when inactive and Brotherhood still make a sound when inactive).
Also....where are the name callouts that have were replaced by buggy Wolvie in 1.23? Now there is just silence. No "Bobby" "Hank" "Chuck". I hope they weren't over written by the Wolvie talking bug and lost forever.
Quoted from Donnyman:Is Deadpool still in the game settings or did they 86 him?
Still Deadpool setting in there.
Quoted from leaffan67:New code is not thrilling me. Danger Room now nearly impossible again as you can't stack hero modes. You can stack a hero on top of a villain mode (which I think is good). So far, I think I liked the last code better!
There is a menu option to allow stacking. It defaults to no. You can control three stacking combinations independently.
Quoted from leaffan67:New code is not thrilling me. Danger Room now nearly impossible again as you can't stack hero modes. You can stack a hero on top of a villain mode (which I think is good). So far, I think I liked the last code better!
So does anyone know how to get to Danger Room now?
I am HOPING for "Attempt each hero mode and go through Mags multiball". Heroes don't need to be beat and you don't need the Mags super jackpot. You don't even have to have all of the X-Men modes played before Mags multiball. As soon as you hit the needed criteria (all heroes played and mags multiball played) Danger Room should light at the scoop.
This would have been too easy in the stack-fest mess that was 1.23, but without the hero stacking...I think it would be a good place for a mini wizard mode and fit in "story wise". Especially if you DID NOT get a Mags super jackpot. You have assembled your team, been defeated by Mags (or at least could have done better) now it's time to train.....in the DANGER ROOM.
Quoted from DugFreez:So does anyone know how to get to Danger Room now?
I am HOPING for "Attempt each hero mode and go through Mags multiball". Heroes don't need to be beat and you don't need the Mags super jackpot. You don't even have to have all of the X-Men modes played before Mags multiball. As soon as you hit the needed criteria (all heroes played and mags multiball played) Danger Room should light at the scoop.
This would have been too easy in the stack-fest mess that was 1.23, but without the hero stacking...I think it would be a good place for a mini wizard mode and fit in "story wise". Especially if you DID NOT get a Mags super jackpot. You have assembled your team, been defeated by Mags (or at least could have done better) now it's time to train.....in the DANGER ROOM.
I believe all heroes need to be completed now again.
Quoted from LesManley:I believe all heroes need to be completed now again.
Yup.
My lock suddenly doesn't work right, after working perfect for the past two code revisions... ~6 months must have played around 500 games in that time. Did they change something with those? Odd it just starts on me now...
My ramp is still moving when it shouldn't, it's either because I turned Icemans time for his mode up or interference with Juggs mode somehow. On the plus side it gave me credit for making the second shot even though it never made it to the left lane.
Completing hero modes isn't that hard, especially now that you can complete and start another during a villain mode. Heroes also seem to restart with less hits I think? Maybe I hit the shots more than I realize, but I kept restarting Wolverine Storm Cyclops over and over and it was preventing me from starting Xavier and Iceman, That's a problem and needs to go away. you pretty much HAVE to hit Cyclops if you want to start Storm or Rogue, it will always suck when you are trying for those modes but Cyclops keeps starting before you can get them, going.
Nightcrawler has a problem, after completing 6 or 7 hero modes, everytime I complete one after that his mode starts. His mode started 5 or 6 times on me in the one game I played, and I got the extra ball from him the first time, so he was just in the way of actually getting something done.
When you're getting down to a few heros left, there HAS to be a point where it turns the other modes off that relate to the setup shots.
I did light Danger Room on my first and only game. Drained right after finishing my last hero though. Completed 3 villains as well.
One other strange thing, it was a very long game, but I never qualified BH or HF.... Do their targets turn off during modes? Or maybe just villain modes? always a mode going.... maybe I just got REALLy unlucky...
Quoted from LesManley:I believe all heroes need to be completed now again.
Yeah...that's not gonna happen. There seems to be no balance with these guys. I propose an adjustment of how many heroes need to be beat. I agree that all should be started, but an adjustment to specify how many need to be beat would be really really nice for an average player.
...but better to be harder than a broken turd like 1.23 was.
Quoted from DugFreez:Yeah...that's not gonna happen.
Are you serious? The modes aren't that hard to complete, and now you can do it in Villains, so no road block. It is a mini wizard mode and right now with 1.24 it doesn't feel much harder than... say... Battle Royale in SM...
-Wes
I like it. Takes two shots to unlock a hero and the best part there is no death by Villan as you can stack with Heroes. With saved progress on Villians and progressive damage for collected Heroes it will be perfect.
Quoted from andre060:Anyone else having issues updating X-Men Pro? I updated to 1.04 successfully when that came out, but now trying to install 1.05 the system reboots just after starting the Verify phase of the update.
FWIW, worked fine with a different thumb drive!
Quoted from LesManley:I believe all heroes need to be completed now again.
Yeah...that's not gonna happen. There seems to be no balance with these guys. I propose an adjustment of how many heroes need to be beat. I agree that all should be started, but an adjustment to specify how many need to be beat would be really really nice for an average player.
...but better to be harder than a broken turd like 1.23 was.
Quoted from muttonboy:Yup.
My lock suddenly doesn't work right, after working perfect for the past two code revisions... ~6 months must have played around 500 games in that time. Did they change something with those? Odd it just starts on me now...
My ramp is still moving when it shouldn't, it's either because I turned Icemans time for his mode up or interference with Juggs mode somehow. On the plus side it gave me credit for making the second shot even though it never made it to the left lane.
Completing hero modes isn't that hard, especially now that you can complete and start another during a villain mode. Heroes also seem to restart with less hits I think? Maybe I hit the shots more than I realize, but I kept restarting Wolverine Storm Cyclops over and over and it was preventing me from starting Xavier and Iceman, That's a problem and needs to go away. you pretty much HAVE to hit Cyclops if you want to start Storm or Rogue, it will always suck when you are trying for those modes but Cyclops keeps starting before you can get them, going.
Nightcrawler has a problem, after completing 6 or 7 hero modes, everytime I complete one after that his mode starts. His mode started 5 or 6 times on me in the one game I played, and I got the extra ball from him the first time, so he was just in the way of actually getting something done.
When you're getting down to a few heros left, there HAS to be a point where it turns the other modes off that relate to the setup shots.
I did light Danger Room on my first and only game. Drained right after finishing my last hero though. Completed 3 villains as well.
One other strange thing, it was a very long game, but I never qualified BH or HF.... Do their targets turn off during modes? Or maybe just villain modes? always a mode going.... maybe I just got REALLy unlucky...
I believe that the Hellfire and Brotherhood targets are still only active when absolutely NO modes are going on. I NEVER got Hellfire or Brotherhood started in 1.23 because of all the hero stacking mess. On this update I have already got Brotherhood 3 times and Hellfire 1 time.
What needs to be done with these targets is they should be "open for business" all the time that it isn't a multiball mode. The hit counter should start at 0 when the game starts.
To add more polish to that: They should have an option for how many hits are already on the multiball counters when the game starts or a easy medium hard setting to represent how many are already lit at the start. They could also add an option to turn these targets off during modes (as they are now) or on during modes (as they should be) if they feel that having them off is a better choice (but who does).
Even more polish: would be to get rid of the stupid (X more hits for multiball after every target hit). We get it...the targets qualify multiball. You have a graphic to show us how many more hits...we don't need a blurb cluttering the DMD every hit. If you want to be real fancy...have the bottom target start flashing when we are 3 shots away, then the top will start flashing along with it when we are 2 shots away. Then the bottom one goes solid when we are 1 shot away and then they are both solid when it is ready.
Bug killing: They also need to fix the Hellfire / Brotherhood target bug. I think it has been there since 1.1. If the targets are dead and not counting hits toward multiball....don't have them make a sound. They are useless at that point so what even acknowledge a hit. The most obvious sign that this is a bug is because the Brotherhood targets just make the sound...the Hellfire make the sound and also light up. LET US KNOW when the hits count and when they do not. If they are dead...kill them. I don't want to see or hear them (but of course it to not have them dead just because you are in a mode).
Quoted from copperpot:Are you serious? The modes aren't that hard to complete, and now you can do it in Villains, so no road block. It is a mini wizard mode and right now with 1.24 it doesn't feel much harder than... say... Battle Royale in SM...
-Wes
Yeah, it's not very hard at all now, much easier than before actually. Also, if you fail a hero mode it will only take 2 shots to start it again, the number of shots needed doesn't go up so it's very easy to get it going again. You can start fail and restart in 20 seconds total.
Did anyone that's really good at the game test this code? There's quite a bit of mess going on if you rock it... I've played this thing so much it's really going to annoy me ugh... so close.. Restarting completed heroes really sucks now, the shots go up to four but that's no really enough.
I can at least turn off nightcrawler I think, but he does restart after every mode after 6 or so... you can complete a mode, he starts, start another mode, finish him, finish the mode and he starts again... I've played 2 games and started him around 10 times...
Looks like hero modes start during Magneto Multiball?
Quoted from copperpot:Are you serious? The modes aren't that hard to complete, and now you can do it in Villains, so no road block. It is a mini wizard mode and right now with 1.24 it doesn't feel much harder than... say... Battle Royale in SM...
-Wes
You may be right....IF they would fix what I think is now the biggest problem with the game. Replaying beat modes.
Ex: You have everyone beat but Storm. You hit Cyclops to get to the upper flipper "Oh no...you started Cyclops mode again". You play that out (or time it out) and then you hit the Beast lane to get up there "Oh no...you started Beast mode". Time to time that one out too.
That's a pretty far fetched example, but could happen and any beat mode you are replaying is just in the way of Danger Room (since the modes aren't stacked*). If beating the mode is required (and not adjustable) it would be nice if you aren't constantly restarting modes you have already beat.
As always a setting is nice and can add wonders to the game. Add a setting of how many heroes need to be beat to get to Danger Room (along with having all of them started) and a setting to turn off the modes that are already beat and I think the Danger Room requirement would be great.
* I'm glad they are not stacked (but appreciate the option to turn that mess back on if I want to)
It's obvious to me that DR should have 2 levels - a one ball mode if you have started all X Men and a multiball if you have completed all X Men. I think DP should go along the same lines and then there should be an extra wizard mode for completing both X Men and villains in one game but then we're getting towards Valinor levels I guess. Whether any or all of that's achievable, I don't know
Quoted from HB_GAMER:With saved progress on Villians and progressive damage for collected Heroes it will be perfect.
There is saved progress with villains. 
What about defeated heroes do they still restart?
Is there progression for weapon X or Mageneto?
If you enable stacking is it unlimited or just two modes at a time active?
Weapon X multi-ball needs a mode starter shot sequence
--> hit these shots --> then hit wolverine --> this start multi-ball.
Since the bash toy is so close I start this mode way to easy. I start shying away from even hitting it because I don't want to start it again. Weapon X multi-ball needs to be reward for hitting some other shots prior to starting the multi-ball mode.
Really like the new hero villan stacking and for some reason hellfire and brotherhood seemed easier to start, but not sure what the change is?
Quoted from rai:What about defeated heroes do they still restart?
Is there progression for weapon X or Mageneto?
If you enable stacking is it unlimited or just two modes at a time active?
Beat modes still restart and, as I have said, is probably the single biggest issue with the game now.
Progression? I don't really know what you mean as far as Weapon X of Mags multiball mean. Are you asking if you fail out part way through does it same the progress and continue from there if you start back? Weapon X multiball seemed the same for me...I'm not sure if you woud need few hits to complete it on a second attempt or not if it was failed the first time. I have also not got Mags multiball 2 times in the same game since I have updated...so I don't know if he has saved progress or not. The other villains do have saved progress and being able to see there health bar while selecting a villain would be great (but isn't there). I do wonder how the villain multiball modes work....I don't know if they save progress and how that would work in them. EX: If you are to Avalanche in Brotherhood multiball and drain...if you start back will you start on Avalanche or would you start with Toad, but the health meter already be down?
It looks like the 3 stacking options are:
Hero Stack ON or OFF I'm guessing this is an homage to the Power Crap that was 1.23. I'm thinking Hero modes can stack as deep as you can stack them.
Stack Villain - Hero ON or OFF. I'm guessing this is asking if you can start a hero mode during a villain mode (this could be done before).
Stack Hero - Villian ON or OFF. I'm guessing this is asking if you can start a villain during a villain mode (I think this has always been the hard coded default).
In case those of you who are wondering, here is the 8 month history of xmen in a nutshell. Hope you like it
I am Waison
Waison I Am
That Waison I am
that Waison I am
I do not like, that Waison I am
Do you like Xmen Code and Ham?
I do not like Xmen Code & Ham
I do not like them, Waison I am
Would you like bugs here or there?
I do not want bugs here or there
I do not want bugs anywhere
I do not like Xmen code & Ham
I do not like them, Waison I am
Would you like scoring in a box?
Could you like scoring with a fox?
I could not like scoring in a box
I would not like scoring with a fox
I do not want bugs here or there
I do not want bugs anywhere
I do not like Xmen code & Ham
I do not like them, Waison I am
You must try it, you will see
You'll may like it in a tree
I do not like your code in a tree
Now Waison, leave me be
Would you like iceman in a house
Could you like iceman with a mouse?
I would not like iceman in a house
I could not like iceman with a mouse
I could not like scoring in a box
I would not like scoring with a fox
I do not want bugs here or there
I do not want bugs anywhere
I do not like Xmen code & Ham
I do not like them, Waison I am
A train! A train!
would you like hero stacking on a train!
I would not, could not
Like hero stacking on a train.
Say! in the dark
Here in the dark
Would you, could you, like my code in the dark?
I would not, could not
like your code in the dark
You do not like xmen code and ham?
I do not like them, Waison I am.
Would you like villain progression with a goat?
Would you like villain progression on a boat?
I do not want villain progression with a goat
I do not like villain progression on a boat
Not with a fox, not in a box
Not on a house, not with a mouse
I do not like your code here or there
I do not like your code anywhere
I Do not like it waison i am
I do not like xmen code and ham
You dont like my code you say?
Try it, try it, and you may
Try it, and you may, i say
Waison, if you let me be
I will try your code, you will see
<Silence as pinside tries the new code>
SAY! I like xmen code and ham
I do! i like it waison i am
And i will try stacking on a train
And i will try stacking in the rain
I will play it in the dark
And i will play it in a car
I will play with scoring in a box
and I will play it with a fox
I will play iceman in a house
And i will play iceman with a mouse
I will play your code here
And i will play your code there
Say! i will play your xmen code anywhere!
I do like xmen code and ham
Thank you
thank you
Waison I am.
Quoted from DugFreez:Beat modes still restart and, as I have said, is probably the single biggest issue with the game now.
If you don't finish a Hero, it only takes 2 shots to start again. If you finish the Hero, it will require more shots...so, you might be seeing some heroes more than you were before if you didn't finish them the first time.
Quoted from mummite:Really like the new hero villan stacking and for some reason hellfire and brotherhood seemed easier to start, but not sure what the change is?
The Hellfire / Brotherhood targets have always been so they are only active when a mode is not playing (a mistake in my opinion). In the early software you had to hit the targets many more times to start them. So they were a bit tricky to start.
The 1.23 code reduced the number of hist to start them, BUT they also included the hero stacking. With all of the hero stacking in 1.23...you were almost always in a mode. Therefore the targets were hard to complete.
So this update they have stuck with the (stupid in my opinion) targets are not active during a mode, but they also kept the few hits needed. The hero stacking is also turned off so you are not in a mode nearly as often as 1.23.
To me the targets are now as balanced as they have ever been, but I still think keeping them on all the time (except multiball) and requiring more hits is a better option. I also believe that having setting for all of these things would be the best thing that could be done.
Quoted from Rarehero:If you don't finish a Hero, it only takes 2 shots to start again. If you finish the Hero, it will require more shots...so, you might be seeing some heroes more than you were before if you didn't finish them the first time.
It goes from two to four.... not nearly enough. I keep restarting cyclops and Wolverine over and over.
And Nightcrawler is ridiculous.... keeps restarting over and over as well...
Quoted from DugFreez:T
So this update they have stuck with the (stupid in my opinion) targets are not active during a mode, but they also kept the few hits needed. The hero stacking is also turned off so you are not in a mode nearly as often as 1.23..
Honestly I think this is good. There's so much content and at the moment Weapon X is a TOTAL gimme if you want a Multiball...why should Hellfire and Brotherhood be total gimmes? If you want 'em, make it a point to hit them on purpose when you're outside of modes. If you hit a Hellfire target, it usually bounces over and hits a Brotherhood (at least on my game). Personally, I'd like to see those targets have some OTHER function during the modes besides being deactivated...that would be more interesting. Sometime's they're a "Find the Mutant" shot during Xavier - so that's something.
Quoted from Rarehero:Honestly I think this is good. There's so much content and at the moment Weapon X is a TOTAL gimme if you want a Multiball...why should Hellfire and Brotherhood be total gimmes? If you want 'em, make it a point to hit them on purpose when you're outside of modes. If you hit a Hellfire target, it usually bounces over and hits a Brotherhood (at least on my game). Personally, I'd like to see those targets have some OTHER function during the modes besides being deactivated...that would be more interesting. Sometime's they're a "Find the Mutant" shot during Xavier - so that's something.
and... the problem is if you're hitting your shots you ARE always in a mode.... which is great and I enjoy that, but can't get HF and BH qualified.
Quoted from edwinpblue:are we talking 10k by Christmas?!?
Yes...for three LEs.
Quoted from muttonboy:It goes from two to four.... not nearly enough. I keep restarting cyclops and Wolverine over and over.
Yeah, I think an option for completed modes not being playable until after DR would be good....maybe just become higher value shots once completed...like Victory Laps or something
Quoted from muttonboy:And Nightcrawler is ridiculous.... keeps restarting over and over as well...
Is he starting more than just when completing Heroes? Check the settings...there might be a NC Mystery scoop setting....he might still be a Mystery award as well.
Quoted from muttonboy:and... the problem is if you're hitting your shots you ARE always in a mode.... which is great and I enjoy that, but can't get HF and BH qualified.
So would it be better then if active all the time but required a ton more hits? Maybe that's the compromise.
Quoted from Rarehero:If you don't finish a Hero, it only takes 2 shots to start again. If you finish the Hero, it will require more shots...so, you might be seeing some heroes more than you were before if you didn't finish them the first time.
I do like that the number of hits that it takes to restart a failed hero doesn't keep climbing. It really wouldn't make a lot of sense to make a mode harder to start for a player that didn't beat the mode before.
Even if the hits it takes to restart a beat hero climbs...I still think the mode should be done and gone. If a beat hero is started...it only makes sense to time the mode out. Not that there aren't other things to do (but there really isn't). I guess you could try to light "Villain" or play a villain mode if it is already lit, but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze at that point. Beat modes do nothing but get in the way. I can't really see how it could be looked at any other way. You can't select a beat villain....why are you forced to suffer through a beat hero?
With the craptastic stacking it was pointless to have replayable beat heroes, but with the stacking turned off (thank God) replaying the beat modes is just stupid, gets in the way and timing out is the smart thing to do if you are trying to get to Danger Room.
Peeps keep complaining about restarting Weapon X multiball. At least on it...it's a multiball. You aren't risking anything by playing the mode. If you drain down to 1 ball the mode is over and you move on. I think Weapon X multiball should be just like any other hero mode (until they give him back his normal character mode)...keep playing it until it is beat, but after it is beat....KILL IT.
Quoted from Eskaybee:Do you like Xmen Code and Ham?
Lol, you have young kids and it shows. Now do the same thing for Fox in Socks... or Goodnight Moon.
Quoted from Rarehero:Yeah, I think an option for completed modes not being playable until after DR would be good....maybe just become higher value shots once completed...like Victory Laps or something
Hit the nail on the head at the very least make it an option. I think that would clear up a lot of issues people have with the pin.
Quoted from Rarehero:Yeah, I think an option for completed modes not being playable until after DR would be good....maybe just become higher value shots once completed...like Victory Laps or something
That would work....and also making those completed hero's shots do more damage if used in a villain's mode.
Quoted from Rarehero:So would it be better then if active all the time but required a ton more hits? Maybe that's the compromise.
I think that would be better. Active all the time except multiball modes. I wouldn't say a ton more hits, but by default make it so however many hits the graphic shows (8, 10???). A setting on how many hits needed to start would also work great.
I do think this update has the best balance as far as starting the villain multiballs goes...I just think it could be better with some tweaking and extra settings.
Quoted from Rarehero:Yeah, I think an option for completed modes not being playable until after DR would be good....maybe just become higher value shots once completed...like Victory Laps or something
Is he starting more than just when completing Heroes? Check the settings...there might be a NC Mystery scoop setting....he might still be a Mystery award as well.
Yeah, he's starting after every hero completed after the second time he appears it looks like. I don't think it's a Mystery, isn't that from the scoop? If so that's pretty crazy odds. Is there a setting to change the number of heroes completed for him to appear? I only played two games and went to dinner, but got him ~10 times in two games... But if there's a setting I'll just crank him up I guess.
Quoted from Rarehero:So would it be better then if active all the time but required a ton more hits? Maybe that's the compromise.
I don't know, but the way it is now I have a much easier time getting to Danger Room than even qualifying either of them... guess I'll turn them down to very easy if that adjustment is working.
I don't care how they decide to do any given thing in the game, as long as it doesn't punish you more and more the better you play as the last few updates keep doing. This update is great don't get me wrong, but the hero restarting thing and Hf BH targets thing are pretty bad...
I thought we were going to be able to adjust how many shots to start modes individually? That would help a lot actually. Crank up Wolvie and Cyclops, maybe Beast and I'd be ok I think. But cranking them all up isn't going to be very fun...
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