Good to hear something positive being said about this pin! I am fine waiting even longer for the code as long as it includes a mini-wizard mode (Deadpool) and combos. I mean how long do buyers of new pins need to wait for the code to deliver a complete game. X-Men code at it's current state while fun it is still crying out for BOTH combos and a mini-wizard mode to be added.

I have a feeling that Wes is right and Stern will not include Deadpool on the next update. That is so disappointing. I mean I've stuck up for this pin and held onto it even during the unacceptable code days the least Stern can do to reward loyal owners of the pin is polish the code off. It has been a full year I don't think it is out of line for us to be expecting all the game features and code to be polished at this point.

I have been a huge fan of some of Sterns recent releases. However, I am not sure I am ready to buy anymore NIB from them until they follow through on code for all their pins in a reasonable time. NIB buyers seem to get the short end of the stick paying a premium for a pin which will likely immediately decline in value once opened that will need fine tuning and have incomplete code for years. End rant...(sorry)

I sure hope they DON'T go adding modes and combos, unless they have already fixed what's in currently.

Nightcrawler/Xavier bug, Nightcrawler repeatedly starting over and over, and Dark Phoenix being unattainable are all way more important than adding any new stuff....

I get the feeling dark Phoenix mode was made unobtainable since it wasn't finished yet to keep people from trying for it and then disappointed

Really...You don't want combos? Well to each their own I guess. Adding/finishing off the code to me is as important as fixing bugs at this point.

Nah, combos while fun to do don't add anything to a game worthwhile. Having a dead Nightcrawler up in the way during Xavier mode, or having him pop up over and over and over blocking shots are game breakers that have to be fixed or I can't turn my game on for even longer.

Beating all villains, all heros, and Magneto SJ and still not lighting DP is also game breaking imo.

I also think getting Wolverine's mode back in the game and his Mball as a mini-wizard like it says on the rule card is more important than combos/whatever deadpool may be.

Of course it was, that's why I say I'd be way more interested in it being cleared up versus adding anything new.

The game is damn near complete without combos or deadpool, it just has huge hiccups and a bunk major wizard mode at the moment.

I do agree the pro is probably fine and I can understand people wanting other stuff. I just don't think the LE should remain broken because people with pros currently have the better more complete game and want combos and deadpool first... If I had a pro I could turn my game on and play it...

To me adding combos (which they likely will on next update) and Deadpool are must adds. Pro does not have many of the issues going on with the LE I can understand you wanting those fixed ASAP. However, the current code even on the Pro does not feel complete to me there needs to be some elements added IMO. I wouldn't be opposed to not re-running hero modes once complete and limiting weapon x multi-ball at all. The reason I am pushing for the game to be finished off and more things added is after this there is rumored to be only one more update coming to both models. Stuff not added this time around may very well be left out of the game for good.

I gave up on this during TF from inception to the final release of code while i owned it anyway. Stern just does not care as much as people think. The priority will always be whats on the production line. Everything else is just extra to them. They have your money or someones money at that point and anything after that consider it a blessing.

This update must be so big that we will need to mount external hard drives in our backbox

That's all understandable and well, but the LE being broken and unplayable 1 out of 3 games I start, and you wanting more stuff in your working game aren't really on the same level...

More stuff is always good. I just see no reason to add and debug new stuff before debugging stuff that is there.

And I am done with Stern either way. I like mode driven long games, they aren't making them anymore. Xmen is an odd duck for them and they've treated it as such. They like putting out good playfields, and piecing together score based quick game type code anymore. Which is fine and many people like those games. But between me liking something else, and ALL of their games having little quality problems that could be easily fixed with a little more playtesting before shipping I'm done with them.

You forgot to BEAT Danger Room mode.

That is the only qualifier for Dark Phoenix that is sounds like you didn't get. It is pretty ridiculous that you have to do all of those things to get to Dark Phoenix, but as others have said, it is probably (hopefully) there just to block people from the unfinished Dark Phoenix mode.

BEATING Danger Room and getting a Mags super jackpot just doesn't fit and is stupid in my opinion.

I honestly don't think you should even have to GET to Danger Room to reach Dark Phoenix myself. Light all center hero inserts solid to get to Danger Room. Light all lower villain inserts solid to get to Dark Phoenix. Keep it clear and keep it simple. It would still be a hard time to get there.

LOL, yeah I know that is/isn't my point (I guess it's how you look at it) Either way, I know how it works, how it's qualified yadayadayada. My point wasn't that I SHOULD have got there. My point is that it should be more POSSIBLE to get there in some fashion and that should be addressed before new things are added and debugged.

And that one was just tagged on, I care less if that is changed versus fixing my other two problems. One of which can be fixed easily by not replaying heroes. Quick easy fix and won't take much time away from adding everything else people want. It's just way more important imo.

The other more important one I noted is the Nightcrawler/Xavier bug, and that one is big and VERY annoying when it happens.

I'm all for cleaning up what is already in the game first. Adding back what has been stripped out (music, separate character callouts and animations, regular Wolverine mode of some kind) would also be nice. Killing the bugs and finishing the game (Dark Phoenix mode) are top priority.

Adding Deadpool, combos and a final round or 2 of bug killing and polish to finish it off.

Why does everyone have it in there head that a Deadpool mode is "owed" to us? There is no playfield indicator for it, and no mention on the rule card. Is it just because of an obscure reference buried in the adjustment menu? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for another mode, but I hardly would call that reason to believe we should get one. For all we know it was a placeholder put in the menus early on that they forgot to remove. I hope we do get a Deadpool mode, but if they never add it I can't see getting out the torches and pitchforks on this one...

he is on the art as well

Deadpool completes the game for me. It would be absolute tease if he was in the adjustments menu from day 1 with a timer value and present as a large graphic on the cabinet. We NEED Deadpool!

To me, the game needs (in no particular order):

1) Combos in a meaningful manner (e.g. added damage to villains, not just counting the number of combos made).

2) Completed Dark Phoenix mode with doable objectives to get there. I think it should be hard, though.

3) Deadpool miniwizard.

4) Fixing the bugs mentioned in this thread.

I think it needs all of these things to be complete.

--Luke

Stern's FB last week that it would hopefully be out early this week.

Then yesterday, they said "maybe today, not sure".

C'mon Stern, lets get that update out today!

He has been in the menu since day one...That plus this game as constructed with 1 impossible to reach wizard mode and one that is pretty difficult to get to is crying out for a mini wizard mode. Friends of mine that play a lot of pinball continually say that it is missing something and I agree. I think the mini wizard mode would make it feel more complete. If no Deadpool is put in the game it won't likely remain in the collection as long as I planned. With it the game could stay in for a long time to come I guess that is how important it is to me.

As far as combos go I'm pretty sure they are included in the next update which is much needed and appreciated. It will add to the experience and help players that play a lot of pinball get into the game. While I love the pin now I can see why some don't and never will unless more is added to the code to match an epic design.

Just what I was thinking. Sinister is on the Mags cab, there is a Cyclops callout for him in the software and also a DMD image of him (for the Xavier "find the mutant" mode).

I want Deadpool too, but I don't at all see it as needed to make the game complete. I also think if it isn't implemented right it could be a big step backward for the game (if they make him a requirement to qualify something). The game has 2 wizard modes. If Danger Room needs to be reached before Dark Phoenix (which I don't really think it should) it would basically be a mini wizard mode.

I kinda feel the same way about combos. A nice extra, but a game doesn't need them to be a good game. I'm not a combo-centric player and most things that a game considers a combo doesn't feel like a combo to me. One shot that lead DIRECTLY (directly feeds to a specific flipper) to another shot feels like a combo to me. Just hitting any 2 or 3 random shots in a certain amount of time (as most games track combos) does not feel like a combo or overly satisfying to me. That being said....X-Men does have many direct and satisfying combo possibilities.

So tracking combos would be cool (and it is in the settings already), but having them deal extra damage, as some have suggested, seem more convoluted than anything. If you do the right combo you are already dealing extra damage (ex: Hit Cyclops and Storm then Iceman in Jugs mode and you have hit him 3 times. Just hit Cyclops and you have only hit him 1 time). I would prefer they give the damage boost to beat hero shots over combos. (ex: hit the same Cyclops, Storm, Iceman combo as above, but you have beat Cyclops and Storm mode...it would count as 5 hits to Jugs).

I want a Deadpool mode. Badly. But I will admit that it is lower on my personal priority scale for the game as of now. After combing through the code and the fact that Deadpool dot animations are non existent on the current dot code, I wouldn't hold my breath for it in this update.

Keep in mind, they have to make the dots for DP mode as well, which isn't present currently on the dot archive either at the moment. With how intricate the dot work is on XM, as well as dot animators also being needed on upcoming titles and other code updates for other current titles, just seems like the time priority for finishing the dots would go to DP mode. I would love to be wrong with this update, but I just have a feeling that Deadpool won't be there....yet.

The real issue with XM is that it was much more ambitious than everyone was anticipating, and they are all doing as best as they can to give us the best representation of their original vision, but during that they've had to omit and cut things out due to drive space and such. The bugs popping up continuously is still just plain sloppy, but to be the devils advocate, they were probably rushing the code releases because us owners have been running the tin cups along the prison bars, so to speak, complaining about completing the code ASAP, that with type of pressure bugs and stuff are bound to slip through the crack. And the fact that stern has claimed for us to expect another update after this next one should also be a hint that there will still be stuff left off as they polish or finish things off.

Mainly, guys, don't get the pitchforks out if Deadpool isn't on this one, as long as progress keeps going in the right direction, I'm happy. As it is, I enjoy 1.24 a lot. The game is enjoyable for me, which is all I care about, lol. We are right to be upset with waiting over a year to get a "completed" game, but it's the reality, and I choose to let Stern know how I feel by not buying anymore NIBs, not by dragging this title down or trying to infect others with my bitterness. If you want Stern to listen, do it with your money, not your rage or indignance.

....jeesus I'm long winded, sorry.

Keep in mind, they have to make the dots for DP mode as well, which isn't present currently on the dot archive either at the moment.

O RLY? This is from code version 1.1 (and has been in all code since). It looks better than "insert wizard multiball here" or whatever it say on the current code.

DarkPhoenix.jpg DarkPhoenix2.jpg

Another day, no update. Guess their testing revealed a glitch or two

He meant dead pool

I want to believe. I want to believe that a code update is happening soon. I want to believe that the code update will have a ridiculously awesome combo system that will take advantage of the shot layout in the game. I want to believe that all the bugs will be fixed and that Dark Phoenix will be attainable. I want to believe that a cool Deadpool 'Feature' will be implemented.

But, I don't believe it. I traded my Wolverine LE, my dream theme with Jim Lee art all over the place and a main character that has been with me since my childhood, because I got frustrated with the wait and the empty promises for quick updates or complete code. It's not that I think the code is BAD now, it's just not complete, and it wasn't worth worrying about anymore. Every time I played it I felt like I was beta testing it, and I was ready to move onto something 'complete'.

For all the people that are sticking it out, more power to you. I really hope Stern eventually knocks it out of the park and I have to go overpay to reacquire my XMLE one day. I hope they pay the machine the attention it deserves, but right now, the code appears to be in development hell, and Stern has moved on to $$greener$$ pastures. I still haven't picked up AVLE either, a game I was destined to buy (SM, IM, XM, ??), because of this Pump and Dump attitude Stern has these days.

Aaah well. Soapbox rant over. It's just pinball afterall!

-Wes

I'll give you first dibs.. if it happens

I am corrected. Didn't see these until now,lol. Good stuff, actually makes me more pumped to see DP mode once it's done. The opportunity for narrative and story with that is awesome.

Still sticking to my pessimism about Deadpool being in this update.

Yep...I was confused. Too many DP's.

Update: I guess he did mean Dark Phoenix after all.

I'm constantly checking and can't wait to see what's coming next, but we're a tough crowd and can't blame them for wanting to test the shit out of this thing before they release it. I can wait for great code.

The Northwest Pinball and Arcade Show is this weekend in Tacoma, Washington </plug> and Gary will be there to share the latest and help us present a NIB XMen Pro to one lucky winner! I'll be sure to try and fanaggle some info out of him regarding the anticipated code update as I'm quite anxious for it myself!

They'll fix it, and then I will trade/sell it back to you. Man you are making me cry...

Yeah, but the last time we waited this long for a X-Men code update was right before the 1.23 (Power Crap) update. ...and I think we all know how well that was "tested".

If you got it, freakin' release it. If you can play a whole game without finding a bug it's already cleaner code than 1.23 was. If it's got bugs post release...fix them in a timely manner (a week) and release another update.

I can't understand why it would take more than a week to test code. I'm pretty sure you can take that sheet of glass off and hit shots / switches manually to test things out.

This is precisely how I feel.

Oh man, all these posts, I thought for sure we had an update!!!! Hopefully before the weekend!!!!

You pinsiders are all full of excellent Ideas for the code improvements. I think we should voice our opinions and ideas to STERN in a positive manner . I asked Pat Powers what can I do to give feedback. He told me to send my thoughts to ( [email protected] ) He told me not to expect a reply but that it will be read and considered. Lets e-mail STERN. Remember positive. I know after reading all posts on this thread that many of you can convey excellent info to make this game really be a STERN stand-out.

Rob, my only real advice/opinions on how to make the XM better would be to add combos (which they likely will) preferably to add damage to Villains. That would make Dark Phoenix more attainable and make sense because it would be like two Heros attacking at once adding damage. Good way to integrate the game. I know everyone has their own tastes but for me this pin is screaming for combos to be implemented with tight shots when we string a few together give us something.

Making it an option to not repeat completed modes would also be a great idea. Have Weapon X appear much less frequently (that first option could help with this). Add Dead Pool in perhaps a timed mode that appears if you beat both Hellfire and Brotherhood Multi-balls. I feel that these type of things would help the game gain a larger fan-base then it has now. Without adding something the game will not feel complete to me.

I personally think this is the best rule change that has been presented in this code forum. I need some help progressing in this game. That is what I will address in my e-mail I send on Thursday. You seem very confident that the combos adding damage will be implemented. I hope you are correct. Because it needs to be added. In addition the reward for such combos would be fun as all get out.

I just don't get how the combos for bonus damage would work. So you are in Omega Red mode and he has a hold of Beast. Why would hitting Cyclops to Storm damage him more? Sure if you are in Sentinel mode (everything lit) it would work, but most villain modes, I just don't see how it would be implemented without making every villain mode alike (hit combo...do damage).

If someone could explain it with a couple of examples maybe I will get it.

I prefer combos just be combos (chaining some shots within a certain amount of time) and BEAT hero modes be used for bonus damage. Ex: Omega Red mode...he had Beast. If you have beat Beast he does bonus damage when you hit his shot to free him. If you haven't beat Beast mode...hitting his shot just saves him and does regular damage. Easy to explain, easy to display, easy to understand.

Combos for bonus damage just sounds like a broad thing to say that sounds cool at first, but I would like to hear it explained.

<edited>.

The whole point of all the Villain modes is to defeat them. Using hero combos to do additional damage fits perfectly. Omega Red requires you to save less Heros if you use combos to defeat him quicker before he captures more. It would all make sense to me.

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : revised possibility for combo system in my next post}

what I would like to see:

- more points for magneto multiball
- more points if you complete a villain mode
- extra points if you complete a villain mode in once

So the original damage shot would still need to be hit and basically start the combo? Would the damage for the original arrow hit give damage then and then any "combo" shot chained to that add a little bit more damage as it is hit?

If that is the case it still sounds like it would make every villain mode "hit a shot that you are supposed to and then hit anything else as fast as you can" which is what combos are on most games.

I'm still not clear on your idea as you have still not given an example.

That would be a nice bonus.

I wouldn't even mind seeing that on hero modes if you beat them on the first attempt.

Im pretty sure they will add in combos and this is how they may end up doing it. Combo shots accrue during Hero modes keeping a tally on how many you add up before entering into Villain modes. The more combos you build up the more damage hit shots will do to the Villains in the Villain modes. Requiring less shots to be hit before defeating a Villain. Therefore, if you built up several combos during Hero modes it will help you get through the Villains and make Dark Phoenix more attainable. This sounds like a very good framework to me and would be a great way to do it. Stern has some great pinball minds I'm sure they gave it some thought.

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Different way to go with combo system.}

Eh, the whole "testing" thing is BS. The last update was supposed to have been extensively tested, in house, "by gamers", and from what many said in some pinsiders collections.

I've got no faith in any of those three forms of testing, not sure what else they are going to do.

Within the first three games played on two of them Nightcrawler mode started 6 times or more blocking me from getting anything done after a certain point. Within 10 games played the Xavier/Nightcrawler bug popped up. Their idea of "testing" is just playing it a little bit, not actually putting the game through its paces and scenarios like any other type of game would be tested.

I don't care if combos help with villains, progression saving helped them enough. I don't have a problem working through them. I've only beaten all of them a very very few times, but I never play the game more than three times a week before getting screwed by a bug and stopping. On a good game they are easily attainable. None of them are really all that long, 5 shots or so other than Sentinels.

I do think Danger and Magneto could use something to help take them down though. Takes way too many shots.

yes that's a good idea

I can kinda get my head around this except for being during hero modes. If I'm in Iceman mode why would I be worried about hitting combos at that point? Hitting Iceman is the priority at that time, same with Beast, Phoenix and many other hero modes. Trying to rack up combos instead of doing what you are supposed to be doing is just distracting from the short hero modes. That is what I mean by an example of how the combo for damage system would or would not work well in the game. There is a difference between an example and an explanation.

If anything I would say combos outside of modes and possibly during hero modes also. If it were only during a hero mode I would consider that a mistake and a distraction from completing the hero modes. If you had the combo storing going on outside hero modes and hero modes so they don't start after being beat (the way it should be).....you could just rack up combos in preparation for the next villain battle. That would be pretty cool.

I also don't hear any specifics on your ideas. Let's say you hit a 2 2-way combos, a 3-way combo and a 5-way combo and get these built up. Then you start Shadow King mode. Does each hit to Xavier or to a hero he has possessed (red arrow shot) just give the bonus for one of those 4 stored combos or are they all spent at once? Are the 3 and 5 way combos more powerful? Does it dish the combos out in order that they were collected or largest first and so on? Anyway of indicating how many combos you have built up and when they are being used? If you hit a jackpot building shot like the Beast shot or Phoenix shot during Jugs mode...does the stored combo, boost the jackpot build or just remain until a damage shot is hit?

I know this discussion of specific rules are hypothetical, but I also believe that many people get ideas, good ideas, that they just don't think through. I'm not saying this combo system couldn't be done. I just don't see it being very understandable if it were implemented.

To each their own. I am just not a very combo-centric player and as I said, I think combos in most games can basically be boiled down to "Hit a lot of stuff in a short amount of time". I like combos for points and to track and save a combo champ award, but I'm not to keen on them being used for something important. I honestly liked the "hidden" combos in older games much better than combos in modern games (certain shots in a particular order vs just hit anything in a certain amount of time).

I really think points on completing Hero should be in direct relation to how much time is left. Or the percentage of time left VS what the time the Hero are set for.

IE:
You have Storm set at factory defaults (20 seconds)
You start and beat Storm in 5 seconds (75% of time remaining)
You should get more points than if you beat Storm in 15 seconds (25% remaining)

I'm not sure I'd do an actual countdown with points as I think I would want the points difference to be greater than just counting them down

Something like

10M for completing in >=20%
8M 40%
6M 60%
2M completing in <=80%

There could be a 'perfect' award for Storm\Beast\Cyclopes\Iceman possibly Xavier and Rouge. Phoenix would be tough because of the pops...

Lets say I start Cyclopes...I let the ball roll to the right flipper..pass to the left. The hit Cyclopes\Storm (or Wolverine) without hitting another switch (or maybe they allow 1-2 switch hits...obviously they would need this with Iceman\Storm\Beast) there could be a bonus for those type of shots.

As I mentioned before this game in begging for a 'smart bomb' of some kind. Maybe you get awarding a SB after a 5 way combo...or a blackbird award...or a 'perfect.' Then use it VIA the start button to cripple the opponent you are fighting. Maybe the SB doubles damage during a Villain mode...or cuts it in half?

I agree with Dug that mixing combos into villain fights could get complicated quickly and might make them all feel too similar as opposed to how varied they are now. On the other hand, I do really like the idea of started and especially completed heros causing more damage in villain fights.

Combos should be a completely seperate system from both heros and villains in my opinion. Get awarded points for each combo and have them build towards a Deadpool multiball mode (and a combo champ entry of course!). That makes a lot of sense to me. Don't they do something like that in Spiderman? I am not super familiar with SM rules, but that sounds familiar. Combos can count no matter what (non-multiball) mode you happen to be in, or when in no mode at all. Have it be just like Nightcrawler in that the mode starts as soon as you reach the required amount of combos. This could lead to some awesome multiball stacking opportunities (I wish the game had more than 4 balls then!), but if that gets too messy it could wait until after a current multiball ends. Not sure which would work better, but if it was handled the same as say Strike an Arc multiball in CV, it could work just fine.

Probably the coolest thing they could do would be once you hit the required amount of combos, the game completely dies. All ball drain. Stupidly awesome Deadpool intro hits. Play insane multiball with healthy ball save. Once drained to one ball, machine goes back to whatever you were doing. Just like CV's Join the Cirqus. Just a thought... If they went with something like this, it should probably only be once a game or it could get annoying...LOL! It should probably be only once a game either way, or at least have it take like twice as many combos to start a second time.

I'm still waiting. I agree 100% that an easily obtainable deadpool mini wizard mode would be epic!!!

There is a dead pool movie coming out and maybe this mode alone could sell a few more games before production is stopped.