(Topic ID: 34336)

X-Men code suggestion/proposal, want to run it by you guys....

By Rcade

11 years ago


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  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by paul_8788
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    #1 11 years ago

    Hey guys!

        I'm actually thinking of sending an email to Stern software with a suggestion/proposal on the code to make things more interesting. I know there's bugs that need to be addressed too, but this is always a gameplay bone to pick that other pinsiders and I have had, and I figured the emails and posts on bugs are specific enough. It's the same thing me and others on the boards have been kvetching for months, but I'm going to get specific and spell it out bluntly, as giving vague suggestions doesn't seem to get our point across. So I'm bringing the proposal to here first to make sure this is a good idea. Chances are the email will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes anyways, but at least I'll feel better, like I've gotten something off my chest,lol.

       I also come at with with NO authority, obviously. I'm a game designer, but I'm not dilusional enough to think that I have then end all be all solution to the XM code, but I like this idea, and it makes sense to me, as well as other pinsiders from the looks of things......anyways, not getting on a high horse, just looking to make sure I'm not making a complete ass out of myself before I send the email out.....

      This current code is lacking in ways to make Villain modes more interesting. Even with the villain modes made "easier" with the update, I still don't hear people here getting to DP mode with any regularity, if at all on 3 ball. So what  I (we) propose is to integrate storyline into the game and make Hero modes mean more, allthewhile adding incentive to villain modes by making DP more attainable through clever and precise hero mode play before choosing the villain mode.

       The basis of the "story" for this is that each Villain is "weak" to a certain combination of heroes. By activating these hero modes beforehand, the villains can be made much easier to deal with by reducing the villain's starting health at 50%, given the correct combination of heroes are activated.  
     
       This also adds incentive to choose a particular villain to fight, rather than just choosing whatever villain the player feels is easiest and moving up. 

    Here is my proposed list of villains, with the Hero teams they're "weak" to:

         Sabertooth- Wolverine, Rogue, iceman
         Shadow King- Xavier, Storm, Phoenix 
         Juggernaut- Xavier, cyclops, beast, Storm
         Sentinels- Wolvie, beast, Iceman, rogue 
         Omega Red- Phoenix, cyclops, Wolvie
         Hellfire/Brotherhood Multiballs- damage bonuses for the shots of whatever heros currently          activated, with a x2 end of round bonus multiplier if you beat the multiball(s) for each COMPLETED hero mode you had going into the MBs.

        Wolverine is in more team-ups than any other hero, simply to give his MB more meaning to beat it, as his mode will be more "valueable" than the others and more useful.

       So Starting with current Hero mode rules, you get a x3 end of round bonus for that ball for each hero mode you complete on that ball. That's fine, a good bonus for closing things out. In order to activate the Team-ups for the villain "weaknesses", the player need only to start (flashing insert) the hero modes needed. However, if any of the needed hero modes are COMPLETE when starting the villain, the player gets an additional x3 or x2 end of round bonus multiplier per completed hero upon defeating that villain. If ball drains, or villain times out, no bonus given.

    What to do with inserts- so players know what team they need for certain villains, and I doubt that players will remember or even know the whole list, when players are cycling through the villain menu to choose whom to fight, the needed hero "team" that the villain is "weak" against will have their respective center inserts flashing (I.e.; for Sabertooth,Wolvie, Rogue and IceMans inserts will flash if you haven't started any of their modes yet) if you don't have the hero needed, the insert will flash, if you've aquired that hero(s), they will be solid (I.e. If the player has started Wolvie and Iceman, but not Rogue, Wolvie and Ice's inserts will be solid, but Rogue's will be flashing)

    You always need the whole team in order to get the health reduction of the villain, but the player still gets the end of ball bonus multiplier for the completed hero modes of heroes in that specific team-up if they still beat the villain even without a complete team. So in the above example, if the player is going to fight Sabertooth, and hasn't started Rogue, but has started IceMan, and has COMPLETED Wolvie going into it, Sabertooth would NOT start at 50% health, but should the layer still beat Sabertooth, they will still get the x2 or x3 multiplier for the end of ball from the completed Wolvie. Bonuses in this way for villains ONLY apply to the heroes they are weak to, so even if you have Xavier and Phoenix completed beforehand, you wouldn't get an end of ball bonus multiplier from them if you beat Sabertooth, just Wolvie, Rogue and Iceman would be eligible for that villain.

    so that's all I can think of right now. To me, these changes make sense, and would not only elegantly integrate story, strategy, reward and meaning to these modes, but also add an incredible amount of depth into this great game. Please consider.

    If I've overlooked something small or forgotten anything, I'm sure I'll edit or reply later, but for now, thank you for your time and let me know your thoughts!

           -Ryan C.

    #2 11 years ago

    How much the end of bonus multipliers would be are completely hypothetical, and are just rough estimations from me, based off of getting the +x3 bonus for completed hero modes. Could just add +1x to the stack each time, whatever would make scoring more interesting.

    #3 11 years ago

    Alternative to handing out so many end of ball multipliers: each completed hero mode on Team-up group for that villain adds 500k-1mill to the end of the villain value?

    OR, maybe you get incremental bonuses dependent upon how many of the team's hero modes you completed. For instance: you have one hero mode completed, you get a time bonus to that mode. Two heroes completed of the team, you get added time, plus 1mill. Three completed, you get the time and 1mill bonus, plus a x4 multiplier. On the two with 4 heroes, the 4th completed hero get you the previous 3 bonuses, plus...I dunno, lol...an extra ball? Maybe bumps the multiplier to x12?

    #4 11 years ago

    Wow Ryan, that's quite the write-up. Glad you're putting my ol' Wolverine to good use my friend!

    #5 11 years ago

    Gotta put my game design degree to SOME use *shrug*

    #6 11 years ago

    part of the reason why people are frustrated with this game, is that the Heroes don't seem to do anything regarding the Villains. Its like just a jumble collection of characters thrown together in a pinball machine with no story or incentive to complete the modes.

    I like your ideas, also IMO there should be a mini wizard mode for starting all the Heroes or starting all the Villians but not completing them, much like SOS in Tron, since it gives a goal and something a lower skill player can still hope to shoot for.,

    #7 11 years ago

    Yeah, mini wizards would be nice, but with the new code, for Danger Room at least, you don't have to complete any heroes, you just have to start all heroes, then get the super jack on MMB. But I think you still have to complete all villains to activate DP, would be nice to get a mini wiz though for starting all the villains though, I agree

    #8 11 years ago

    Seems pretty convoluted - I think my proposal is similar to yours, but simplified.

    Any played (or completed?...not sure which would be best) Hero's insert remains solid...even when you start a Villain. That solid shot would cause double damage & 2x scoring in that Villain mode. So - if you had Xavier lit, every time you hit that shot during Shadow King, you'd get 2x damage and points.

    #9 11 years ago

    Yeah, I tend to over complexify things, so I can definitely see your point in convolution. Yeah, simplifying by just double damage and double scoring for collected/completed heroes that villains are weak to is a much more approachable concept. Sometimes I just need someone to slap me across the face and tell me when I'm over thinking or being convoluted. Much appreciated, Greg! Good sh!t.

    #10 11 years ago

    Or are you saying to also lose the Team-up weakness groups, and just go with a blanket approach to all heroes effective on any villain?

    #11 11 years ago

    I'm with Rarehero here. I like the idea of played and / or completed heroes adding to the villains damage and / or jackpot bonus...but I don't think the villain modes need to be reworked to accommodate that idea.

    Your example of Omega Red mode: Omega Red- Phoenix, cyclops, Wolvie. Why would you want to turn it from a random "hit the lit character shot" to a "hit the same 3 characters every time" mode?

    My suggestion would be that if you have played and / or beat the hero mode....that shot will do bonus damage IF it would normally do damage in that villain mode. You would still have some of the strategy when choosing villains. Ex: If you have Xavier beat....it would be a good time to choose Shadow King. But during the mode The Shadow King would still choose different X-MEn to take over. If that character is one that you have beat, good for you. If the character the game chooses is one that you haven't beat, tough luck.

    Honestly I would like it to be so played heroes add a small bit to the damage or the jackpots and heroes that have been beat add even more damage or jackpot bonuses (IF their shot is used in the villain mode).

    There also needs to be a universal way to use the inserts in each mode to display what is going on in the mode (jackpots vs damage) and which characters are causing a small bonus (played characters) and which ones are adding a large bonus (beat characters). You figure each shot has 2 inserts (arrows and names) and each insert can be solid or flashing (at different speeds). That should be enough to work with as far as pointing out what does what during a mode.

    I would suggest arrows always indicate damage. It is ridiculous that in Jugs mode that the orbit arrows only build the jackpot while the other arrow shots damage his helmet. We know that the arrow inserts can be solid or flash at 2 different speeds. So how about solid/ slow flashing / fast flashing to indicate if it is default damage / small damage bonus / big damage bonus? I'm guessing the name inserts can also be flashed at the 2 different speeds...do the same for them to designate the jackpot building shots and if they have a bonus on them for playing or beating a hero. My big question here is what would best designate the BIG DAMAGE shots from it being from a beat hero mode? Would a solid arrow work better or the fast flashing one to indicate higher damage?

    Once again I feel like I have wasted a great deal of time on a large post that will be ignored. I'm quite certain that the developers will never put the thought into this game that most owners have. That might sound rash, but after seeing the most recent code...I don't know why anyone would think otherwise. All they need to do is listen to the suggestions that people have and consider them. I was describing the situation to my sister the other day and telling her about people making suggestions on pinside and she couldn't believe that a company gets free market research handed to them and they choose to ignore it.

    PS: Hero stacking has got to go. The timed modes were just not designed to stack. You can put your setting on hard or extra hard, but that is just spreading out the broken pieces. They should have made it so other hero modes could quietly be quantified in the background while playing a hero mode...then after 1 hero mode is over you can go back to qualifying another or hit one that has been qualified to start. That a hero mode is qualified and ready to start could also be indicated with the inserts.

    #12 11 years ago
    Quoted from Rcade:

    Or are you saying to also lose the Team-up weakness groups, and just go with a blanket approach to all heroes effective on any villain?

    Yeah I just think keeping it simple w/ Hero inserts staying lit & becoming 2x damage/points shots during Villains would be cool - and have some good strategy. Again using Shadow King as an example...if you didn't have Xavier lit yet, you might wanna skip Shadow King and fight another Villain...and then fight him once you've got that Xavier shot solid as a 2x shot, ya know?

    #13 11 years ago
    Quoted from DugFreez:

    PS: Hero stacking has got to go. The timed modes were just not designed to stack. You can put your setting on hard or extra hard, but that is just spreading out the broken pieces. They should have made it so other hero modes could quietly be quantified in the background while playing a hero mode...then after 1 hero mode is over you can go back to qualifying another or hit one that has been qualified to start. That a hero mode is qualified and ready to start could also be indicated with the inserts.

    Ya know, set on Hard I think it functions reasonably well and helps keep the game "active". It's a clusterf*ck at the factory 1-shot setting...but I'm actually coming around on it as a 2-shot deal. I've actually set the timers for the Heroes a bit higher, though...since you can't add time w/ the Blackbird anymore - and with 2 or 3 running at once, it's hard to concentrate on those tight time limits. Also, now a longer Hero timer doesn't mean you're blocking out other features like it would have before.

    #14 11 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Ya know, set on Hard I think it functions reasonably well and helps keep the game "active". It's a clusterf*ck at the factory 1-shot setting...but I'm actually coming around on it as a 2-shot deal. I've actually set the timers for the Heroes a bit higher, though...since you can't add time w/ the Blackbird anymore - and with 2 or 3 running at once, it's hard to concentrate on those tight time limits. Also, now a longer Hero timer doesn't mean you're blocking out other features like it would have before.

    I have actually gotten "add more time" on hero rewards at the scoop at least once. But only one mode was running (iceman) at the time.

    #15 11 years ago

    Good stuff.

    Yeah, I've gotten the add more time from the blackbird, but it is pretty rare now. I have yet to get NC from the BB yet though.

    #16 11 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Yeah I just think keeping it simple w/ Hero inserts staying lit & becoming 2x damage/points shots during Villains would be cool - and have some good strategy. Again using Shadow King as an example...if you didn't have Xavier lit yet, you might wanna skip Shadow King and fight another Villain...and then fight him once you've got that Xavier shot solid as a 2x shot, ya know?

    Quoted from DugFreez:

    I'm with Rarehero here. I like the idea of played and / or completed heroes adding to the villains damage and / or jackpot bonus...but I don't think the villain modes need to be reworked to accommodate that idea.
    Your example of Omega Red mode: Omega Red- Phoenix, cyclops, Wolvie. Why would you want to turn it from a random "hit the lit character shot" to a "hit the same 3 characters every time" mode?

    Totally understand, points taken and agreed. I retreat from my standing. What I came up with is making something that should be simple into something way too complex. This is why I bring things like this up, I'm used to game logic, not pinball logic, where simple is key. XM isn't TZ or STTNG, it's a more simple and approachable layout, which is better for the operators, and the code should be that same, sorry for wasting all y'alls time with my ramblings. I'll shut up now,lol

    #17 11 years ago
    Quoted from Rcade:

    Totally understand, points taken and agreed. I retreat from my standing. What I came up with is making something that should be simple into something way too complex. This is why I bring things like this up, I'm used to game logic, not pinball logic, where simple is key. XM isn't TZ or STTNG, it's a more simple and approachable layout, which is better for the operators, and the code should be that same, sorry for wasting all y'alls time with my ramblings. I'll shut up now,lol

    There is nothing wrong with sharing your ideas. Your ideas will probably give others ideas. Let's just hope that some of these ideas get to the developers and they make them reality....but I have pretty good idea that, that won't happen.

    #18 11 years ago

    I believe it's possible that if you send an email to John Borg (and xm software team) care of Stern, maybe they will look into fixing the code.

    I don't want this to turn into a WOF or TF situation, I'd like to get this code in shape, and just bitching here on Pinside may not be enough.

    #19 11 years ago
    Quoted from DugFreez:

    Once again I feel like I have wasted a great deal of time on a large post that will be ignored.

    Well I sure do appreciate the time you're taking so that Stern can hopefully identify what it is they could do to improve Xmen's code. I have to think that guys like you and Rarehero can make a difference and that it will ultimately benefit all of us Xmen owners (or else it looks like I'll have to sell my Xmen at one big ass discount and join the Avengers party which at this point seems like a rockin' good time)!

    Hopefully your efforts won't go unnoticed and we'll see some of these changes implemented soon!

    #20 11 years ago

    I thought that myself included bought XM instead of waiting for Avengers (I assume they are equal theme) was because XM/Borg on a roll vs not want to get another GG TF type of fiasco. Well how is that working out?

    #21 11 years ago

    I did the exact same thing bought it 3 days before the BIG POWER PACK.

    #22 11 years ago
    Quoted from rai:

    Well how is that working out?

    At this point I'd say a lot of guys who have an Xmen LE would trade their machine for an Avengers LE in a heartbeat, but it could have easily been a different story if the Xmas eve code update was everything we were hoping for (and maybe even a little bit more). So for now it seems like all of us Xmen owners are a little disgruntled (some much more than others), but hopefully the next update we get will come fairly soon and it'll be a positive one. If so that could change many people's opinions of the machine. Remember the hype back in July for this machine? Man it was crazy. Seems like a forgotten memory now. Initially the reviews were awesome, but then once we all figured out the software was a mess it all kinda went downhill in a hurry. Right now Avengers is getting the love and hopefully that can keep going as it's good for pinball.

    As for Xmen, I think it has amazing artwork, backglass and playfield. It's everything you could ask for in a pinball machine. All it needs is a little code picker upper and the Xmen train just might get back on the tracks. I don't mind the 1.23 code at all, just needs some fixing and polishing.

    #23 11 years ago

    Sidenote:What would be cool would be a some-sort-of-a "Midnight Madness" w/ Deadpool, Apocalypse, or Mr. Sinister. Have the machine freak out at midnight and implement some sort of multiball mode right at midnight. Williams did this w/ Congo,DH,JM,NBAF, and W?D.

    #24 11 years ago

    I've been thinking about this quite a bit today while playing a bunch of games. Here are my thoughts for what I would want in a 1.3. Some of the ideas I have stolen (sorry, can't remember to acknowledge exactly who) from other posts as there has been lots of good stuff. Obviously just a starting point, things would need to be tweaked, but the idea is to add some strategy/depth to the game and make sure there is always something to shoot for. Not going into any wizard mode changes as I have never seen them myself.

    Unfortunately I doubt this would ever happen, as some of this was requested as far back as 1.1, but I think it would go a long way towards making a good game great.

    Hero modes
    ---------------------
    - Remove hero stacking.
    - Change Danger Room mode back to all completed heroes
    - Make it so you cannot re-start completed heroes until after Danger Room.
    - Completed heroes' shots score double.
    - Combos fill "mutant power" meter. When full, triggers 2x scoring for 30 seconds. Additional combos during "mutant power" scoring adds 5 more seconds to the meter, max it can run overall is 60 seconds.
    - Every time "mutant power" scoring is started, increases end of ball bonus multiplier.
    - After completing a hero mode, a 10 second hurry up to hit scoop, if hit within hurry up triggers villain selection even if not lit.
    - When Iceman mode is complete, 3 shots to ramp will start Iceman hurry up for 30 seconds. Hitting ramp during hurry up scores x amount, increasing with every successful shot to a max of y until mode expires.

    Villains
    ----------------------
    - Cannot work towards qualifying villain mode if villain mode is active or villain light is lit.
    - Completed heroes add damage to villain modes. For example if the shot would do damage during a mode, and its corresponding hero is completed, extra damage.
    - When villain modes are completed, and you get to the villain select window, you have the option of choosing a scoop reward or selecting an uncompleted villain. Would probably also require adding some new scoop awards (super pops, super ramps). But each villain would have a corresponding reward. Omega Red maybe Bonus Hold, etc.

    Dead Pool
    -------------------------
    Not sure what they have planned here, but put something in. I would assume they have something cool in mind, because the modes they already have are a lot of fun.

    Bug Fixes
    --------------------------
    - Fix Iceman ramp moving bugs.
    - Hopefully with removing stacking all of the villain lighting and hero completion bugs introduced with 1.23 would be gone. (I would honestly hope they would just revert to 1.22 and add the good 1.23 stuff back in)
    - Get rid of Wolverine callouts happening all the time with 1.23.
    - Replace Beast voice.

    #25 11 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    Get rid of Wolverine callouts happening all the time with 1.23.

    PLEASE..He won't shut up now!!

    #26 11 years ago

    Has Stern Ever listened to Anyone? He wouldn't listen to Jack who was his biggest distributer and friend. Why would he listen to anyone else?

    #27 11 years ago
    Quoted from zr11990:

    Has Stern Ever listened to Anyone? He wouldn't listen to Jack who was his biggest distributer and friend. Why would he listen to anyone else?

    Maybe they will. 1.2 contained things suggested by customers from the 1.1 code. In any case, letting them know via email, or even posting on Pinside at least lets Stern know where their customers' concerns are at. After that it is up to them.

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