Yep defeat magneto after you finish the modes.

START the modes.... not finish... you can even start the last mode with the same shot as you start magneto with and it will work.

Thts because they DONT test !

It will hurt Stern's future NIB sales if they don't get this code right. An announcement would help to say a proper powerpack is coming Jan/Feb.

If they don't put the work in on XM, I will join the line of not buying any more Stern NIB for sure.

Does anyone think Stern will be able to fix this messed up code? It seem as if the more complex game, is getting more buggy. As if its completely broken. I would have thought after all this time a semi finished code update would have been in the works. Instead it seems as if a few corrections were added but everything else remains messed up or became messed up worse.

Is this game going to become WOF? With totally incomplete code?

I sent an email to Stern and have not even got a reply back.

I doubt it. Its the way they have operated for years and many continue to pump them up and enable them.

I have sent emails in the past and have never had one replied too.
Given up emailing them!
They do as they please.
Maybe the opposite over your side of the pond tho..

Being incomplete isn't what I worry about. When I hear of a game being incomplete, I think of a game with a missing wizard mode that I would probably never get to anyway. What I worry about with X-Men since 1.23 is that it will just be bad and broke from the first ball plunge.

I still say 1.2 was a big step in the right direction over version 1.1. 1.21 (much improved Xavier mode and Sentential intro) and 1.22 (fixed ball lock issue) were improvements from that. 1.23 is a big step back in my opinion and unless they go back to 1.22 and start working again from there, I'm guessing the game will always be busted.

Sure...set the modes start to hard or extra hard. The hero modes are still broken, it just takes a few more hits to see them. The only improvement I see in this version are things that should have been adjustable in the setting from 1.0 (fewer hits needed to defeat villains, fewer hits to qualify multiballs, ect...). These improvements should have been made with rule changes (hero interaction with villain shots and targets hits count during modes)...not with just tinkering with the settings. The improved magnets are the only thing I can think of that this POWER PACK improved....and I can think of many more things that it has broken (messed up insert information, broken call outs, GI bugged, modes resetting when played with other modes, Xavier shots counting as Storm shots, less Nightcrawler).

I guess I may also say integrating a Magneto super jackpot is also nice, but I don't think it was done in a good way. All it does is bottle necks the difficulty of getting to danger room now. To get to Danger Room...hit each shot 1 time (super easy) and get a MM super jackpot (not very easy at all). Plus, as others have said....defeating a villain should have nothing to do with Danger Room. The Danger Room is a training facility for the heroes, beating Magneto shouldn't be a prerequisite.

I would say that if you had vers 1.23 loaded on a machine and 1.22 loaded on a machine and had players play a dozen games of each....80% or more of players would say that 1.22 was the later and improved code and 1.23 was the early busted code.

Was anything added to this version (modes, call outs, features, dmd animations)? There were more bugs added than anything. I still can't understand anyone thinking it is a step in the right direction at all. The only good I can see coming from this update is I hope people have e-mailed and told them how disappointing this update is and they really take a look at it (and how bad it is) and decide to fix the broken mess that is has become.

The bugs or as I call them broken parts! Are frustrating. That is not acceptable and needs a new fix 911. Its one thing to add updates and tweaks to make a game better but this is bullSkrit.
Great looking game and cool shots but to send this to me for this price with non scoreable code on day one was an insult. This update is right up there as well.
I have been buying every new Stern up til now but have really had it.
Stern, fix this soon or loose customers fast.

I think they need to go back to completing the hero modes to get to danger room and stacking helps to complete this.
One good reward for defeating Magneto is to light one of the Villian modes solid as completed .

Well 1.23 does address the #1 complaint, and that was the common need to time-out villains.

I'm not quite as worried about new bugs being introduced, that's simply an indication that software is being rushed out untested and incomplete, and bugs will eventually get fixed... it's the rule changes that require extensive effort, particularly ironing out the issues introduced wtih stacking.

The only question I have at this point is whether Waison has the desire to properly finish his games like Lyman does in his spare time, because Waison's next game is due out in only 4 months. That will make or break his reputation in this industry.

Wish they added something like collecting bombs or something like in AFM that you can use to finish an enemy off.

Or maybe as simple as once a Hero is collected you collect a power up to use against a villain.

I disagree that timing out villains was ever a need, I also disagree it was the number one complaint (that seemed to be the Beast voice, which is still there). Villain modes were too hard, and didn't contribute enough to the score or anything to strategy to complete, so people were choosing to time them out. A simple fix was suggested by many: tie hero modes to villains. There was even consensus as to a cool way to do it (lit/completed heroes increasing villain damage/scoring).

I agree with DugFreez. They should revert the codebase to 1.22. Danger room should be gotten to by completing heroes, it makes way more sense for the theme. Stacking is an godawful mess that has just introduced a ton of bugs that will take them forever (never) to iron out properly given their track record so far. Add back the things from 1.23 that should've been in 1.22 such as the hellfire/brotherhood qualification and stronger magnets. Then take a good hard look at what your customers have been asking for and complaining about and fix that.

Here's another suggestion, coming from many years in the software industry, writing and selling software to customers. Fix known bugs *before* you start adding in new features which introduce even more bugs. Always start from a stable base or you end up with a complete mess.

I agree that danger room should go back to finishing heroes to light it. And I think they should link the magneto mb super JP to dark Phoenix in that you only need to start the villains, not finish, to get to dark Phoenix.

I like the hero stacking but the default setting needs to be at 2 shots. And there needs to be some sort of sound effect or call out when a hero is completed, similar to rogues secret finishing shot. The inserts need to be fixed for heroes too so that it's easier to know which hero modes are currently active. Perhaps they could have a setting to limit the number of hero modes running at one time?

Iceman is screaming for a mode that actually uses the iceman ramp for consecutive shots.

Combos need to be implemented but not like they are in TF. They need to be used creatively and have cool sound effects for big combos. My idea is to have a power meter and as combos are collected, the power meter fills up. Once power meter is filled, 2x scoring is awarded.

I'd also like to see the bonus multiplier work with combos. Then, as someone else mentioned, have completed heroes award mutant powers. These mutant powers can be stuff like super ramps, super combos, super pops, etc... And maybe the Xavier insert + arrow can be the shot to collect the power.

Other than all the bugs, I think they are close to getting this code ironed and 100% complete. And I like it....a lot!

Hard for any coder take take what the customers want when everybody is throwing ideas out and there is no consensus.

Again- All I hope for:

1. Fix Bugs - way too many.
2. Add combos and Deadpool mode.
3. Tweak rules to enhance. Not too dramatic as it will break the game again, not everybody will like what they do, but just get somebody with experience to double check to make sure they even make sense. (I realize that you can change it in the settings, but starting a stacking mode with one shot is not "normal". What a cluster that is with 5 different callouts going.)

Magnets and hellfire/brotherhood were improved.

I agree. The original version that shipped with the game was set just like that so you can make consecutive shots. Also the original video of Borg explaining the game talks about making consecutive shots. Why they changed this feature? Doesn't make sense to me.

I know, main issue should be fixing the bugs, but also I think there was something to be said for the original code where Heroes were played prior to Magneto Multiball, no Villians for a while, or at least until you defeat magneto or collect or start most of the Heroes. It's makes some sense and would keep the confusion down somewhat.

Yep

Disagree, don't like hero stacking at all and as the game wasn't designed for it at the start I don't hold much hope of them getting it right. It isn't like Tron where there is just a couple second animation and a callout before light cycle multi-ball starts, or destroy Clu. There is a whole narrative for each hero, unique lighting, sound effects, etc. If it is too much to hope for that they remove it, then I really hope they make it so you can shut off hero stacking completely if you want.

Agree and really like this one. As long as they don't have the Iceman ramp moving around and dumping balls STDM...

Interesting. I like it, adds some strategy.

That might be cool, but it is so easy to complete heroes (especially in crazy stacking land), that I could see it really imbalancing the scoring. I like the idea of super ramps, combos, pops, but have them as random scoop rewards. They should be timed, and achievable multiple times per ball, where they wouldn't be with hero modes or villain modes.

Unfortunately, disagree with this. I love the X-men as a theme, and love the machine's look and its shots. Waison did a great job on the hero modes, the villain modes, but where it has fallen short is tying everything together, and having any sort of scoring strategy. The strategy has always been "light all the heroes". 1.23 not only kept that as the only strategy, but made it even easier to accomplish.

Well, this is what I told Gomez at PPE....just keep that line of communication flowing w/ your customers - even if deadlines aren't hit, just tell us. So, I dunno why there hasn't been an official announcement...you should hear it from Stern...but since you haven't, I'll be the messenger: THE GAME WILL BE FIXED & IMPROVED...so, if you have any more patience, use it now lol

Actually, on some of it there is a lot of consensus. Part of the analysis though would be going through threads on here, emails people have sent, and determine where the consensus lies, and then determine what is achievable and also fits within Stern's and the designer's own visions for the game, then implement. They don't have to try to implement everything the customers are asking for, but it would be nice if it looked like they were taking even some of the feedback into account, like they did with 1.1 to 1.2.

Although, I still think with 1.1 to 1.2 they should've left it an option to have first Magneto multi-ball before villains open up. Not because I liked it that way, but because if at all possible, you should never take something away from a customer when doing a new release. For every ten people who hate a feature (like me with stacking, other people with the magneto multi-ball start in 1.1), you have a few who like it.

that would be great hearing news from stern about "progress" or later updates or something. give me a heads up that "your on it!" and my patience will be there.....when all i hear is rumors that stern is likely working on it i'm a little doubtful. keep the faith followers of the X

To quote John Borg from his FB a couple days ago: " there is a lot more coming. Didn't get to do half of what was started."

Take from that what you will.

I think Stern has a hard time adjusting to the new trend that home owners are very important, and that we are a difficult bunch to please (at least some of us ).
When it was just the operators, they didn't need to explain themselves for anything. But times are a changing!
I think i can speak for most when i say, just tell us when things are hitting a delay. Just a simple message can solve and prevent a LOT of speculation and anger from our part.

Well I don't know if its code update related or not, but despite all 4 balls sitting in the trough, the machine says "missing pinballs" and I can't get it to work. This happened with my IM and I had to replace an opto board. Think its the same thing here?

Yes and no. I've had this issue with plenty of sterns and never had to replace the opto board. If you have a shaker or like to nudge (like me), the more plausible cause are the pin connectors going to the two trough opto boards. Just re-seed them. They probably got loosened.

that actually scares me more than anything... if the changes are actually included in the half that was done, this will be the most bastardized code in relation to the IP and original intent via the promo video and instruction card info in the history of pinball imo.

The problem is, he and the coders have a boss.. And they have the next pin in the pipeline. So whether they have more planned or not is out of their control to some extent.

Amazed that this got released from what I'm hearing (been out of town till tomorrow).. Sounds like they either let code out they knew was AFU, or worse they didn't think about the effects of all these modes piling up on each other and causing unintended consequences.. Which seems like a gross oversight. They did a good job on the individual modes, you would of thought they'd be displeased with all that getting creamed.

I'll second the opinion to dump stacking as that wasn't in the original design and can't be crammed together smoothly and maintain the integrity of the modes. Find a way to integrate heros and villains, add combos, some new modes (dead pool).

Probably, I have replaced four sets of trough jam opto boards on four different games. It can't hurt to check the connectors. Sometimes you can reflow the solder on the trough boards and that will do the trick. It has worked about half the time for me.

Brian Bannon

I believe the hero modes are not supposed to be stacked. The hero modes are something like a few shots to complete except for weapon X, and have a story or animation sequence and call outs that do not make sense with stacking. this should not have been forced out in the shape it is in.

I have no idea why Stern, or John Borg does not say what is planned for the game, ie what the rules will be when finished. Also, I have no idea why this should be so difficult other than the new guys do not know what they are doing. It's very frustrating. I kind of think, in my mind, these new code guys are some type of comic book nerds who have not the first idea of pinball and maybe not even any idea of how to program.

for example, if the designers wanted to light this insert, if that switch is hit two times this call out and this animation and this amount of points and this other light sequence will occur. Whatever the case may be. I would think that by this point in the game we would be well along better than current and that a new code update would bring less hair pulling an emails to Stern.

It sound as if John Borg is not happy with what's going on, it's out of his hands in a way, he is not coding the game, he handed off that duty to a group of programmers who have never done this before in their life. I'm sure Borg didn't want at this point to still be trying to figure out what the rules are going to be.

Somebody at Stern tell us what the heck is going on!!

And get Lyman on the code ASAP

Your frustration should be directed @ Stern, not the programmer. Companies should have well established processes that help avoid missteps that Stern customers deal with far too often.

From my perspective, Stern seems incapable of producing 3 high quality machines per year with the current staff. Fortunately, software can be fixed/updated. Much harder for hardware. The AC/DC "fuzzy window" is a good example of shipping buggy PF's. When folks complained, Stern reps said the fuzzy window was fuzzy by design. On the second crank turn, Stern shipped clear windows. Was AC/DC spec'd to have fuzzy or clear windows? Who knows?...no one except for Stern really knows the answer. I guess it's conceivable that the machines were spec'ed to have fuzzy windows and they changed to clear based on "feedback" (but I doubt it). If AC/DC weren't such a great game in other respects, I believe this misstep could have been a much bigger deal. Crystal clear windows will likely fetch more $$ when it's time to sell/trade.

At a minimum, Stern should be transparent and give the community insight into it's plans and truthful answers. These are really expensive toys and their loyal customers deserve better. Unfortunately, since they are really expensive toys, missteps can be expensive so they obscure the situation so they don't have to do a "mea culpa" (which might cost them big $$).

Why can no one at Stern even acknowledge that I sent an email regarding the code? Something like: "we received your email and are going to look into the matter, thank you for buying our product"

I might be in the minority, but I think there's a good idea in the stacking, I think it's just too nuts having everything stacking at once. I think if there was a limit to the amount of hero modes you could stack at once, that might clean things up. Like a limit of being a le to stack two at once. I dunno

Also, what we really need is eternal stacking of the HFC and Brotherhood stand ups. In every mode. All the time.

We also need to remember that these were made to be money making machines, the new code with all the stacking is VERY non-pinball player friendly. ALL of my non pin friends that have played the new code (on medium) said that this was the funniest thing they've played. They can't get enough of it and want to play more. Hobbyists and collectors and pin players are those who gripe over the minutiae of the code. Non pin players just start and whack the pinballs around, don't really care about rules, per say. Especially kids. I'm admittedly painting with a broad brush, exceptions are expected, but this has been my experience with my non pinhead friends.

I think that "Stacking" should be an option in the menu, so it can stack by default on location, but those with them in homes can turn it off, should they want. Maybe also a setting where you can limit the amount of modes and how many at once you can stack?

Another thing that could be easily turned on/off in a menus would be Magneto Multiball needed to start before all other Villians unlocked. Some people may not like it some people may. It could be an option.

Also side targets hits should count all the time, while in modes or not in modes.

NC should be somehow available, not only when not in a mode. Should be somewhat like Gambit in that he should appear during a medium length game or better, maybe after 5 minutes if he is not activated in a game it should take the place of Villian for the scoop or have NC as one of the scoop options.

They're probably closed for Xmas holidays?

Dave.

making things optional is just more work.. Now you have to implement both ways, and test both ways during formal test. So, given their lack of success so far, something as giant as stacking needs to be constant if this game is ever going to be finished. Anyway, my opinion as a software engineer who has to deal with this struggle as well.

does anybody know if the hellfire and brotherhood multiballs have to be completed, or if it is enough to beat the "regular" villains to reach dark phoenix?

Well...it has been the weekend since the code released. That leads into the New Years holiday. I would like a statement also, but I don't expect one and I especially don't expect one on their day off.

The changes they did to the Hellfire and Brotherhood targets is a prime example of how lazy this update was. Sure everyone wanted them to be easier to qualify...but instead of keeping the targets active during modes (as people suggested), they just lowered the number of hits needed to qualify the multi-ball. Wasn't there already a setting to make qualifying them easier by lowering the amount of hits needed? Did it work or not (I really don't know)?

Those targets are also a perfect example of how they are just letting the bugs ride and keeping poor design choices around. Why do I need a graphic showing how many more hits to the Brotherhood targets and also a screen of text flashing telling me again how many more hits I need (redundant, clutterd, stupid)? Why have the targets make a sound effect when they are not active? Why have 1 set of targets light up when you hit them and they aren't active and the other set doesn't?

The Hellfire and Brotherhood targets should always be active as long as it's not a multi-ball. If they are not active they should not light up when hit. I really don't think they should make a sound effect if they are hit and not active either, but that seems a bit more excusable and a judgment call. There should be a working setting in the options to choose how many hits are needed to each bank to qualify the multi-balls. How about adding a nice slow flashing when 2 hits away from qualifying them, fast flashing when 1 hit away and then lit solid (as it is now and nice touch) when the multi-ball is qualified.

The Hellfire graphic was also a bad idea compared to the Brotherhood graphic. You can easily see how many hits are needed to start Brotherhood....the Hellfire graphic is more of an unnoticeable "idea" of how many more hits you need. Rework the graphic.

Think, if they fixed this...that would be one more thing out of the way to fix. They could do the same type of clean up on each mode. Then they could decide on how the modes worked in the game and interacted with each other....before you know it.....it might be a good game.

That is an over simplification imo. Really comes down to how well the code was constructed in the first place. The "non stacking" code was already in place, if it were me I would've built the "stacking" strategy completely separate. Then all you have to do is implement and test the "stacking" strategy (which has to happen no matter what to put stacking in at all), and a simple test to make sure the proper strategy is running based off of an option. If the code is a big bunch of spaghetti then it gets more complicated.

Well, we have 1.23 as evidence though as insight (yeah, it's easy to armchair quarterback).. The code seems like what happens when you implement stacking by just letting them run (stack) with no infrastructure to mitigate overlapping modes.

You have to complete the mb's
My best game to date on the new code is completing all the heroes, completing magneto, completing danger room, and completing the 5 standard villain modes. I was a small bottleneck just trying to relight BH and HFC. In case you were curious, the villain mode light stays unlit if you completed the 5 villains and only lights when HFC and BH are qualified (granted you qualified a villain mode).

I really hope they add MB progression to all 3 mb's. And/or they make villains one and done modes and link the magneto super JP to dark Phoenix, not danger room

I'm not sure, as far as actu code goes it could be as easy as one code line, on / off the rest of the program can be the same. Not sure how much it wound effect anything else. Just Villians off until after Magneto multiball.

Sure the setting turning into a flag in the code is one line of code, but stacking/not stacking has to either not deal with dmd dot coordination (updating user on all the modes going), voice, light show cross scheduling in the no stacking case (as it feels like xmen was), or it does. If you started with stacking working well and then went to no stacking then that seems easier than applying stacking after the fact as 1.23 illustrates. And taken more broadly and back to original point, in general I see a lot of "make it an option" in wishlists across all kinds of games and just hoping people think about how it's work to do optional things and there's second/third order effects that require a lot of testing to sort out.. Adding to development cycles.

So anyways.. My vote for dumping hero stacking is more about expediency in getting something more polished sooner

it would be nice if they made the villains like the tv modes in family guy, starting them all get you to the wizard mode but the better you do in the villains the bigger jackpots you get in the wizard mode.

Yes! I've been saying this since day 1. I'm a huge FGY fan and always felt the villain modes would play much better if they were utilized like the tv modes in FGY. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure the guy who's programming xmen has ever played a game of FGY, or even pinball for that matter. He seems very video game oriented.

See, this makes no sense to me. Stacking, by definition, *is* everything happening at once.

Stacking, yes. But I think it's mainly the Hero modes starting from 1 shot which makes it madness. That's just lazy and stupid factory setting rule design. Sorry. It is.

Construct the default mode starts to the playfield design. Xavier and Iceman are easier shots, so I'd say 4x each starts their mode. Rogue, Phoenix and Cyclops 3x. Storm and Beast 2x. Wolv 8x. That way they stack, but not in a hot mess of madness, and you can control the pace of the mode starts far better. And honestly, I don't mind the Magneto SJP qualifying Danger Room, if..

Dark Phoenix progression is more sensible. Starting all of the Villians is tough, if they don't stack, and by rule of qualification they never will. So the FGY/TV mode analogy makes perfect sense. That'd still be a bear to complete. And then...

If you reach Danger Room and Dark Phoenix, you qualify the ultimate Deadpool Finale as the final wizard mode maybe?

And add combos, of course. Not having combo awards in a layout with endless combo possibilities is just silliness.

The changes needed aren't really all that tough, and the game would just open up and be infinitely better. Hopefully Borg or Waison are following this thread...

PS- any XM owners who haven't changed the four ramp posts, please do so immediately. Immediately, if not sooner. Also, do the Hemi NC mod (in blue). Also, lamp covers on the Gambit jet leds are a must, believe it or not I tried a few and I liked yellow covers the best (there's so much red and blue on the playfield already). Enjoy!

5 modes with 5 shots on factory settings is what doesn't make sense. Having to earn your stacking is fun, just having it given to you defeats the purpose. I really don't understand how this became the normal setting on this update.

What gambit jet lamp covers are you referring to? Link? TIA