Hey NightTrain

We had something similar on our Wonka but I think you are on the right track with the amplifier board based on what you are describing. Below are some things to look at that might help you to diagnose your issue:

1) Locate the sub speaker wire connector at J104 on the sound board and first inspect the pins carefully to ensure that neither wire is loose in the socket housing. You should be able to pull on both the red and black wires gently and the pins should be firmly locked into the connector and the wires should remain in place.
2) With sound playing, "wiggle" the J104 connector gently and listen for the sub to regain or completely lose its drive. This might indicate a cold solder joint on the J104 header. If the backbox speakers are too loud for you to hear a toggle in the sub speaker, unplug J105 and J016 (left and right backbox speaker lines) and then do the wiggle test.
3) If you have a Pirates of the Caribbean or Guns N' Roses you can swap sound boards and see if the issue tracks the board. If you do this, I'd recommend measuring the DC resistance of the cabinet speaker to ensure it is not somehow shorted out - do this with the speaker wires connected so that you are checking both the speaker and speaker wires as a connected system - you should read either 4 or 8 Ohms depending on the speaker. A shorted wire pair or speaker could have resulted in damage to the amplifier board so keep this in mind before you decide to swap boards.

Finally, have you modified the sound system in any other way? I ask because as you might imagine we run across many cases where guys have burned up their sound board attempting to add incompatible aftermarket electronics to their system.

We'd love to know where this ends up!

-Dan
PinWoofer

The "pop" at the ~10s mark is generated by the mother board headphone output (that routes to the amplifier board), and not the amplifier itself. harryhoudini has a gizmo that gates the lines until after that event for guys who can't live with it. It won't hurt anything and every JJP title I've ever seen does this.

Great outcome gorditas ! Wonka has such an amazing balance of the movie's nostalgia and modern touches, and you know you've added PinWoofer from the second you plunge the ball. Hopefully you know exactly what I'm talking about! What a great title and what a stellar audio track - JJP really did a nice job with. Have fun and our sincere thanks!

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Greetings @arcyallen!

The soundtrack on Wonka has amazing potential, but the stock hardware falls woefully short. PinWoofer unlocks this potential and we've had great feedback on Wonka; you'll get tons of bass out of the cabinet, but equally important, you'll also get a much fuller backbox and you'll hear new detail. Perhaps some others might chime in who have taken the Wonka plunge with PinWoofer.

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Anyway, give me a shout if you want to talk about your audio and have a stellar day!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

Great outcome Travahontas !

Our DIY is turnkey by design; I placed the mounting holes to line-up exactly with the factory JJP mounts, so the new amplifier is a drop-in replacement and you'll re-use the six screws. In your case I believe you had zero wire cuts or crimps - 100% plug and play with only a few nut-driver turns. There are three speaker quick connects, the audio input and power connect. The tweeters are also quick connect and require only minutes to install.

The trade-off with the DIY is that the controls are in the backbox enclosure so you'll have to make tone and level adjustments prior to closing things up. The DIY is somewhat inconvenient in the long-term compared to the Knockout, which places the controls at the coin box location. But, the DIY price-point is lower and in terms of the improvement to your audio the results are stellar.

OK, have fun and thanks for the shout-out!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

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Hey Rager170 - yes, there is a pro level line out mini-jack located at the lower-left hand side of the amp. The line trimmer is something that might make things more convenient since it allows you to control the level of your external at the coin door location:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-line-trimmer/

Using the DIY with the line trimmer requires a longer cable to route from the backbox to the front of the machine:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-12ft-3-5mm-male-trs-to-male-trs-stereo-audio-cable/

Good times!

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PW-LT-LO (resized).jpg

Thank you - I'm sure you'll enjoy the upgrade.

Greetings phill2cb ! The link provided by Rager170 was the correct one for basic settings. However, considering your comments, it might help if you gave me a quick call. I'm sure there are some simple things we can do to break you lose.

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

It's great to get some expert (measured) feedback and you've touched on some important points, mastery being the key and no software EQ. The PinWoofer amp provides some basic control which is enough for most guys. I have an EQ drawn up, but we don't know if it is really worth brining it out since there are other commercially available options out there.

Thanks for the notes and we sincerely appreciate your well written commentary!

Please note our JJP DIY Amp mounts to the factory standoff locations (i.e., it replaces the factory amplifier card) so you'll need to make adjustments prior to closing up the backbox. The results are the same as our Knockout amplifier offering; the DIY is the same amplifier, just a re-step to fit the factory mounts. The DIY comes with a bit of a convenience loss because of its mounting location compared to our KO amplifier which resides in the coin box location and is easily accessible.

Our recommended starting point for adjustments is here:

https://pinwoofer.com/blog/pinwoofer-jersey-jack-pinball-willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-amplifier-settings/

The DIY links are below (it is strongly recommended that you add a set of tweeters, included at free-play.se):

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-diy-amplifier/
https://www.free-play.se/produkter/ljud/pinwoofer/pinwoofer-diy-do-it-yourself-jjp-kit.html

The KO link is below (tweeters included for Wonka):

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

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Rager170 - 12 o'clock is halfway between fully counterclockwise and fully clockwise (that is, the "clock like" position looking straight at the control).

If it's quiet, you can increase the backbox, treble and master volume levels. These are the third, second and lowest controls with respect to the bottom, in that order. After that you can increase the service menu volume at the coin door as much as you like. It will get as loud as you can probably tolerate.

If you cannot locate the cover, we'll send a replacement.

Please give me a call at 208-855-0346 if you have any additional questions or issues.

Thanks!

Dan

My pleasure Rager170 ! The recommended settings are those which we have developed directly, or from trusted customer sources. So, if you need to "season" your settings go for it.

waveform did a great mix (menu) itemized summary on the last page in case you missed it:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wwcf-club-wonka-golden-tickets-inside/page/238#post-7025249

You can set the sound level of the machine to whatever you like. Please be aware that some of the mix settings can introduce clipping when set to an extremely high value.

Your amplifier controls can be set to any level, just keep in mind that the Bass Freq can introduce a lot of high bass when set > 12 or 1 o'clock. (High bass can sound quite "boomy" and unpleasant.)

The Bass vol should be set on the higher end since bass requires more energy from the amp.

From your image I think your bass settings are good (upper two controls).

A good general adjustment strategy is to change one thing at a time and if it sounds worse, go back. If it sounds better, keep it.

Have fun and give a shout if you need anything else (best to call, email or PM for a quicker response).

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

Greetings everyone!

Thought I'd jump in and mention we are having a promotional discount of 20% on our JJP Super Kit.

JJP Super Kit Flash Sale:

-JJP Super Kits 20% off
-Coupon Code "PW_AUG_2020_JJP"
-Limited number available with discount (if the code don't work, its over)
-Offer valid until Midnight 8/15/22 or when the coupon limit is reached, which ever happens first
-Web orders only, applies to domestic or international orders

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

The single, best thing you can do for your JJP title.

Have a great Sunday!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

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The 1970's mono music from the film is a bit thin and there is not much improvement to be had, but there is some. The vast majority of the title's track has a significant level of complexity and quality that you simply will not hear with the stock setup and even adding an external sub does not get you very far. The new music and effects are stellar and there is huge potential within Wonka that we unlock. Add PinWoofer and you'll know it from the second you plunge the first ball.

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Good times!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

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Hey Good-Times !

Exactly - the latter - amp + tweeters are enough, and the added power in the cabinet helps to fill the high-bass and low-midrange domain.

The factory midrange drivers are of good quality having decent cone and surround materials, and there is a quickly diminishing benefit to trying to upgrade (there are upgraded models out there that fit, but we tried only one). Also, they are extremely hard to swap out and for the small benefit that a better driver might yield, we deemed the extreme effort for the customer versus audible benefit not worth pursuing.

Regarding bass - the effects and music are where the bass shines the most on Wonka. It starts with the plunge of the ball, and you can actually hear the cabinet bass during the music passages. You'll be excited to hear the attract music too. JJP really does a nice job with the audio master, but you just can't hear it with the stock setup. A lot of guys also add an external sub, but I've heard that it's not that impressive on Wonka. I think you'll get all you need from the standard kit.

Hope that helps!

Hey zaphX ! Yes, please see below:

This is a new video from HurryUpPinball and he plans to make the video public today, and remove the draft note in the title.

Here is the kit for Wonka:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MST, Mon - Fri

I've had guys say the speaker grille removal is unnecessary (they left it in) with no audible result during gameplay so perhaps removal is not required. If you do remove it, replacements are available so you might simply install a new one ($10-15).
-The cabinet speaker upgrade requires you to snip the wires and add new crimps for the upgraded speaker, but I would consider this reversable.
-The new tweeters have quick connects so 100% reversable.
-The original machine speaker wires are utilized with the PinWoofer kit, so they simply plug back to the factory amp card.
-The power board is easily removed.

So, I'd say 100% reversable without a trace.

You can mount the amp aft of the coin box fin. Keep in mind that the coin box might rattle a bit but there are things you can dream up to mitigate that.

Hope that helps!

Dan

The KO+ amplifier output is pro level, so it is "hot" compared to standard consumer level which is likely what you are looking for. So, we strongly recommend adding our Line Trimmer gadget which gives you control over the level sent to your streaming device input (same goes for an external sub). Start with the level out at zero and increase until you have a measured / clean input during your livestream.

You can use the master volume on the amp to turn down the level of the machine without affecting the level to your streaming device (because the amplifier ouput is derived from the preamp, but the master volume controls the game level only).

If you want to substitute the 12ft cable out from TRS to RCA, to TRS to TRS, please make a note in your order or PM me so we know.

Below is the stand-alone item link with the complete write-up, but you can add it to your kit when you order and get a bit of a discount:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-line-trimmer/

Great question!

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PW-LT - Use Model (resized).jpg

Hey mstang01 - thanks for the question.

The SUB_OUT jack on the Spike-2 backbox line out board is consumer level. So, what you have described (for the Spike-2 machine you have acquired) is perfectly fine and works great if you jack into SUB_OUT as you have done. You are good to go on that machine.

What you ordered for Wonka is exactly what is recommended for JJP since there is no other sub output option inherent to the machine (attempting to "split" the motherboard output signal between more than one device creates a lot of attenuation and is not an option). Using the PinWoofer amplifier output, which is pro level / "hotter", requires the use of the line trimmer to avoid clipping / overdrive conditions (at high volumes) and it also allows for more fine control of the input level to an external device. The usable range of the ext sub volume control will be much greater as well.

Hope that helps - always happy to answer questions. Reach out any time.

As an aside, there is now enough drive on our amplifier output to split the signal in case guys want to get elaborate and run multiple external devices. For example, streaming, satellite speakers, external sub, etc. I have not tried splitting it more than once but that is a possibility. For now, let's say that it can be split once. So, if someone wants to run more than one line trimmer, that is a possibility. We plan to rev our TRS splitter board in the near future for this purpose.

Great presentation Travahontas - we really like how you documented your settings!

Great outcome brooklynknight !

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Anyone can reach out to me with questions - happy to help!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MT, Mon - Fri

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Greetings jackd104 - I appreciate your post and others.

We've been mentioned a few times and I wanted to jump in to add some of my perspective. I'm just going to go for it, so thanks for the opportunity to do so!

In general, talking about the factory speakers and amp, and then EQ and mastery:

Starting with the factory tweeters, they can be had for about $4 apiece. The construction is Mylar (polyethylene / plastic film). Mylar is low cost and highly efficient, and often used in mass-produced audio (automotive / marine) because it produces lots of output per unit power to better compete with ambient noise. This is at the expense of quality. The solution is to use a high-quality and oversized textile dome tweeter which are widely agreed to produce better results.

The factory woofer may be one of three types which are all run of the mill, and low cost. Woofer looks can be quite deceiving; a big magnet and attractive decal do not make for a superior outcome. Our solution is to use a 2Ω DVC speaker for increased power draw from the amp and a tight suspension design for improved impact and sustain. For this you'll need an amp capable of driving a 2Ω load.

The 4in mid woofers in the backbox are however, of decent quality (poly cone / rubber surround) so we recommend keeping them in play. (This is fortunate because they are incredibly difficult to replace.)

There are some obvious platform challenges since the mid woofers are upward facing and reflected off metal plates forward, which tends to wash out (modify) the upper mids and low highs, so oversized tweeters will better balance the backbox sound field.

Next, the factory amplifier is lacking due to its design (minimal power bussing, low decoupling, derated, no heat sinks, etc.). So regardless of the settings, you a working with what amounts to an amplifier you might find in a flat panel TV. A consequence is that there's insufficient reserves to both hit the woofer and to provide good dynamic range to the backbox.

The software EQ should help the factory setup, but the limiter will be the factory amp. I've never been a fan of DSP in audio because of the graininess and exacting corners those algos seem to produce. Something that might be explored is an off the shelf analog EQ in-line with the audio feed to the amp.

Finally, the mastery can lead to some dissatisfaction. The JJP source audio is probably the best in the business which makes sense, having a PC, tons of storage and RAM. However, comments here indicate that there is room for improvement. The 1970's movie track is thin, and there are some "boomy" elements to the modern track that are challenging to manage when upgrading the audio hardware. So, one needs to decide if they want to lift the bar with an audio upgrade knowing that the track is not perfect. My take of course, is yes, it is worth it and the feedback for Wonka has been overwhelmingly positive.

OK, again I just wanted to offer some perspective since we've been mentioned here recently.

Have a great day everyone!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MT, Mon - Fri

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We had a double tap on Black Friday (two kits purchased for the same machine) which means we have one new in box kit available at 10% off in case anyone is interested:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

Code: BF2022_JJP_DT
Singe Use
Terms: 10% off JJP Super Kit Purchase
Expires: 12/22/22

Have fun and play pinball!

To our amazing pinball community - have a happy and prosperous 2023!

Thanks,

Dan
https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MT, Mon - Fri

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Hey Guys! Since we were mentioned a few times.

The JJP Super Kit comes with our signature amplifier, power solution, harness, tweeters and woofer + mounting ring.

Wonka has amazing potential, but the factory hardware does not do the track justice. The below link and QR code lead to the JJP PinWoofer kit for Wonka:

https://pinwoofer.com/pinwoofer-jjp-super-kit/

We're in OK shape for the next 24-48 hours, but we expect to go on backorder until the 23rd of June. If you can't wait, I'd recommend getting your order in.

Thanks!

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MT, Mon - Fri

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We've created a 5% off JJP super kit coupon and enabled a tiny number of uses. (We can't do this for Stern or other platforms, only for a limited JJP offer.)

Coupon Code: "JJP_5PCT_24HOURS_LIMITED_QUANTITY"
Terms: 5% off JJP Super Kits
Expires: 6/13/23 midnight or after the limited number of coupons have been used, or inventory levels prevent coupon use.

If the coupon code does not work, the offer has expired.

OK, good luck!

Thanks,

Dan

Fun to watch the debate on backbox versus coin box location; some want easy access to the amp controls, and some don't care (the DIY is a chore to access). The good news, our in-house designed amplifiers are a game changer compared to the factory offering.

In terms of the electronics, the DIY and Knockout Plus are identical (different steps of the same schematic), so you'll get great sound no matter your choice. Our speaker upgrade is vital (in particular our tweeters) and they are the best you can get for JJP.

Next, a few PinWoofer amps undressed. Appearance won't always tell the story, but I think the effort we've put into our amps is clear. We use the best materials possible; SMT, large decoupling caps, custom heat sink, extensive ground plane / polygons, thermal vias, and a high-end enclosure for our Plus Series Amps. We have invested heavily in our electronics and offer what we think is most well-designed audio hardware upgrade possible.

OK, just a fun look inside. Have a great day, and thanks for your attention!

Thanks,

Dan
https://PinWoofer.com
[email protected]
+1 208-855-0346, 9am - 5pm MT, Mon - Fri

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Great points.

Making adjustments with a music player is a clever technique.

If you increase the slider levels on the EQ it can serve to create a "hot" signal to the amp input and that can lead to clipping. So, we recommend leaving them flat and if you feel like more is needed, change one at a time and in small amounts so as not to overshoot.

Also, I don't think there is a lot of risk to bumping the controls. It might depend on the creativity of whomever gets into your coin door though, which is why I tend to keep the keys separate, especially when there are kids around. The Knockout is by far the more popular of the two and we've not received any feedback that the controls are accidentally changed but I suppose it could happen.

Thanks for your comments!

Hey Mrsiyufy !

Sorry for the slow response but I see you figured it out.

Our cabinet woofer is far superior to what's in the factory setup and while what you did is a great start, it is probably worth upgrading. You will hear a difference.

Once you setup the DIY it seem like you can live with the settings since it is difficult to access. We have not sold many of the JJP DIY comparatively, and I have received feedback that the lack of access to the controls is a regret. The Knockout Plus on the other hand has been solid on the JJP platform. By the time you are into a full DIY setup with speakers you are not far from the KOP amp dollar-wise.

A word of caution, our tweeter upgrade is vital. I'd even say don't upgrade the amp unless you also upgrade the tweeters.

Have fun buddy!