(Topic ID: 55795)

Tech Help:Whirlwind A/C Relay problem. **Problem Solved!!

By Hougie

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Hougie
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

I have narrowed down my ramp flasher issues (Whirlwind) to the a/c relay. During the coil test the ramp flashers all work but when I test the relay switch I am getting c-side error. The switch clicks and it looks like it is making contact. Does anybody know if the issue is possibly something other than the relay or do I need to replace the relay? I don't really understand what is happening during the coil test vs. relay test. I am guessing that the switch is faulty and not relaying power to the flashers during gameplay. During the coil test is the relay bypassed?

I am also having issues with missing (very quiet) callouts but those seem to be another unrelated issue. I will tackle that next.

Edit: Flashers turned out to be opto isolator U1 on the interconnect board. Many thanks for all of your help. Especially, Richard_Bok!

Post edited by Hougie : Problem Solved

#2 10 years ago

Anybody tackle and solve this issue? I am a relay noob.

#3 10 years ago

You could use the ask LTG function at the upper right of the forum page as he may not see your thread.

edit- the dear Lloyd I should say...

1 month later
#5 10 years ago

Time to hire a professional buddy

I worked on this issues and I hired one.... way to complete for a first timer.

#6 10 years ago

This from the manual:
"As directed by the game program, the Solenoid A/C Select Relay (solenoid 12) switches the solenoid B+ power between two power busses to permit actuating two groups of solenoids at the proper times.
In its de-energized state, the Relay connects the 'circuit A power' to 16 "controlled" and "switched" solenoids (identified in the table with no suffix letter or the letter A, after the solenoid number).
Individual solenoid operation then depends on the game program enabling the ground path for solenoid actuation via the driver transistor associated with each solenoid circuit.
For example, the game program can actuate the Outhole Kicker solenoid (sol. 01A), via the driver transistor Q33.

"When the game program determines that the Solenoid A/C Select Relay (sol. 12) must be energized, the relay connects 'circuit C power' to eight group C solenoids (01C through 08C).
Now, driver transistor Q33 can actuate the Bottom Right Flasher circuit (sol. 01C) which has two lamp circuits, one to the Insert Board and one to the playfield.
Using this "multiplexing" technique, the same driver transistor can control actuation of two separate solenoid circuits."

The A/C relay is exercised/checked in coil test (05 - solenoid test identifier.) With the auto up switch in the up position, the test will test each solenoid starting with 01A (Outhole Kicker) and then switch to the C side and test 01C (Bottom Right Flasher.) It will then go to solenoid 02A, then toggle the A/C relay to test 02C. The solenoid being tested and the side (A or C) will show on the display. While this test is running, as it switches from the A circuit to the C circuit, you should hear the A/C relay clicking in the backbox as it switches. If it doesn't switch, you will hear a solenoid like the Outhole Kicker fire twice in a row, once when the display says 01A and again when it says 01C.

When you get to Solenoid 12 in the test, this is a direct test of the A/C relay and when this test runs you should simply hear the click of the A/C relay itself with no other visual clue to the test.

If the relay does not click and you do not get flashers, you have to suspect either a fault with the driver transistor for the relay (Q8) on the CPU board or the relay itself, located on the aux power driver board, D-12247.

You should perform a check of Q8 on the CPU board. If it fails, your fault is likely there. If it tests good, chances are it's a relay problem.

Hope this helps.

viperrwk

#7 10 years ago

the relay clicks during the test and the flashers work. it still didn't work during gameplay with a different CPU board. it must be an issue in the wiring, the auxiliary power board or the interconnect board. I just can't figure it out

#8 10 years ago

During gameplay, do you get double firing of the coils or does the game play normally, just without flashlamps?

viperrwk

#9 10 years ago

Plays normally just no flashers.

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Hougie:

During the coil test the ramp flashers all work but when I test the relay switch I am getting c-side error. The switch clicks and it looks like it is making contact.
...
During the coil test is the relay bypassed?

Strange story. This shouldn't be possible. During the test everything works the same way compared to during game play. So if everything works ok during the test there is no wiring issue, the relay is fine, everything just works fine. But it's not....

The relay clicks and you get a c-side error? Then I would start from that error.
Google c-side error and go from there.

It happened to a Jokerz here (without solution): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/dL7Ch26Jjgk
And to a Rollergames here (with solutions): http://forums.terragame.com/Tech-Rollergames-relay-switch-error-ftopict1700.html

I am guessing the opto isolator U1 on the interconnect board. Or the resistor R13/the soldering, since it's 5W it probably gets very hot.

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from Richard_BoK:

Strange story. This shouldn't be possible. During the test everything works the same way compared to during game play. So if everything works ok during the test there is no wiring issue, the relay is fine, everything just works fine. But it's not....
The relay clicks and you get a c-side error? Then I would start from that error.
Google c-side error and go from there.
It happened to a Jokerz here (without solution): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.games.pinball/dL7Ch26Jjgk
And to a Rollergames here (with solutions): http://forums.terragame.com/Tech-Rollergames-relay-switch-error-ftopict1700.html
I am guessing the opto isolator U1 on the interconnect board. Or the resistor R13/the soldering, since it's 5W it probably gets very hot.

I will check this out. Thanks!!

#12 10 years ago

Fixed! Thanks Richard_bok! See edited first post.

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