Looks great. Can't bring myself to order one without the chance to play it first. Hope this makes it to production.
(Topic ID: 28763)
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Quoted from Whysnow:do you like the new orbit return? I am really digging it! Less ticky tacky and way more intentional feel to it now!
Anyone thinking about it or on the fence, please plunk down a 1k deposit. If 100 don't get in then there is no "can't wait till it comes out"
This game NEEDS to get made and I fear that all the ill effects of other starups have damaged the chances of what IMHO is one of the best games to come on the scene for decades!
I reallly hope this gets made but there's just no way I'm getting without playing it. Hopefully they move forward with production or push the drop dead date till after the Texas spring convention.
Looks great and a cool theme, I wish the designers the best.
2 weeks later
1 week later
Glad to see this thread has turned into every other thread on pinside 
I wish riot the best and hope this game comes out. I like the theme and the layout. I think the music and callouts will be fixed. It's a thousand time further along than a stern release. Find a way Scott!!
2 weeks later
Quoted from T-800:Hey guys, just wanted to pop in real quick. Thanks for all the continued suggestions on how to keep moving this forward. I'd just like to reiterate, restating the same thing on this thread doesn't really do a lot of good, other than make it harder for other people to find quality content (neither does posting something just to piss someone off).
Just to make it clear - selling a "kit" isn't possible right now. To all those that believe otherwise, well, good for you. Besides the dozen reasons I can give on why it's not going to work, the simplest is that as of right now you simply can not buy about a dozen or so "standard" parts needed to build even a single WOOLY. Besides all the work that would go in to managing all of the custom parts for the paltry half dozen souls brave enough to want to invest $7K+ in building their own (yes the BOM on a single build is about $7K) - I would personally feel pretty stupid if I spent that money and then found out I had to wait indefinitely to get a couple of key parts in just to finish the game. This of course assumes you're technically proficient enough to properly wire and assemble an intricate electro-mechanical device perfectly the first time.
In the meantime, we're still exploring other options and continuing to find legitimate means of moving this forward. If you have any questions or comments please feel free to email me direct as usual at [email protected]
Seems as soon as WOOLY did not make the 100 needed preorders this thread quickly turned useless like 99% of the rest of pinside. The same group of people argueing over things that do not matter. Good luck with whatever direction you decide to go Scott. I'm still interested in this game and hopeful that it finds a way to get made. Any chance of a WOOLY making it to Texas will Spooky?
3 weeks later
Quoted from Snowhyt:I'm thinking the price will have to drop before production starts. Lots of other games with a better price point.
Really, what are these NIB games at a better price point? Stern pro or AMH are about it.
Quoted from Aurich:Huh? Even Stern LE models are cheaper than WOOLY, why are you limiting it to just Pros?
Riot's costs and prices are what they are, I have no insight into them. But if they were able to sell their game for the Stern Premium $6500 pricepoint I bet they'd have reached their pre-order goal.
$8k is just too expensive for a lot of people.
The MSRP is higher, I know that is not what anyone pays though. $7600 is probably closer to the norm but that is essentially 8K to me and you are buying an unknown game that won't have finished code for 2 years if ever. I'd gladly pay $400 more for a known product that I like. After pretty much no code updates for TWDLE I'm done with stern NIB until there business model changes. Spooky is gaining traction because everyone else keeps failing and they have a solid known product.
I agree that $6500 is probably the magic number but I'm not sure with a lower production run that they can get to that. Time will tell. It will be in be interesting to see if 8K really is to much for anyone because prices are not going to go down. Companies may close but I don't see a price drop coming. If anything I expect JJP's third game to come it at 9K or higher.
Quoted from Aurich:Keep in mind though that the $7600 price includes shipping. I presume the $8k WOOLY price doesn't, unless I'm wrong about that?
So we're really looking at more like an $800 difference. And this is from a Stern LE, same gameplay is available for $6500 for a Premium.
I'm not trying to bag on WOOLY here! I'm just saying, the landscape is what it is. IMHO $6500 is already damn expensive for a game, it's just hard to keep climbing past that. Obviously not everyone feels that way, but a lot do, and it's a tough thing to sell.I love Spooky, Chuck is great, Ben is great, I support what they're doing. But AMH is selling because they were able to price it reasonably. Ben and I talk a lot, I'm pretty confident he'd have zero argument with saying that AMH would have been a failure at $8k.
IMHO these are just the realities of the market, and small companies are just going to have to challenge themselves to work within that pricing structure. If Riot can come back with a new pitch and sell 100 games to people for $8k then more power to them! But that's a tough road.
I agree, all good points
5 months later
Quoted from pinballnut3:How about craft beer. Do you go to your local craft beer joint and complain and refuse to buy it because its not the same price as bud light.
This is the dumbest conversation ever.
If you want to be original play "craft" pinball this is your game. If you want bud light....wwe anyone?
Comparing stern to bud light is silly. Stern is by far the best current pinball company and they consistently produce quality games at a fast pace. If you don't like one of there models just don't buy it. If WOOLY is craft beer then it's that craft beer that one of your buddies made in his basement that he says is awesome but it's all gone so you will never taste it anyway.
I think WOOLY looks interesting and if it would have made it to production I might have been interested. There's no need to bash other companies to try to justify it getting made though. Yes, WWE may be considered a bad game by most but there's a lot more WWE's in the world then there are WOOLY's.
Quoted from pinballnut3:How is that a bash? I think plenty of people would love to be bud light. Bud light is one of the top selling beers. Its advertised everywhere. Its in every store. They have so many kinds bud lime, bud, premium bud. Sound familiar?
Its also......bland, pc, middle of the road.
But bland sells to the masses. Bland makes huge profit. New product every summer sells to the masses.
I was not bashing bud or stern just pointing out the sales model.
I think it was a very fair comparison.
Craft beer still comes in a bottle, still called beer, looks like beer. But yet it was skillfully crafted by someone with passion to make something special. Not for mass profit but to be special to him. He then because of love of his dream shares that dream with a few others. He tries to make as much as he can make without needing the massive investment in large bottling equipment. Because of that there is less of it and it costs more.
Again very fair comparison.
BS, you were taking a swing at stern and you know it. None of the bud product lines would be highly rated in many beer contests or rating comparisons. Stern has numerous games that are highly rated. Also WOOLY is not a fair comparison to craft beer. I can actually have craft beer. I may not be able to buy it everywhere but I can get any type that is marketed if I want really want it.
Quoted from pinballnut3:http://anheuser-busch.com/index.php/anheuser-busch-takes-gold-silver-and-bronze-at-north-american-beer-awards/
Nice try. According to the link above its not bud its Michelob. Your arguments wrong the big names still win awards and have good product. I own sterns also and like them. I am not here to bash another company. Definitely not the company I want to pick up Wooly.
Again its the framing of the price argument. You would look like a fool arguing with a craft beer bar you will only pay Michelob prices for craft beer.
That is not a knock at any company only a mindset of pricing.
If Scott tries to pursue making small batches it will be priced like craft beer. They may or may not work. If we judge by 3-4 loud vocal people it wont work.
If Stern picks up WOOLY everyone can have the $6500-$7000 Wooly they are complaining about here.
Thats how pricing works. Scott at this point has ruled out him manufacturing due to part supply.
Why are we all shouting. Tell stern you would buy a $7000 Wooly. Lets solve this issue.
Winning awards means nothing. People that know and love beer look at other ratings just like people that love pinball use pinside. http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/29/1320/
Maybe someone will pick up the game. If it could be made for $6500-$7000 I think it has a chance of selling OK. I don't see it happening though. Pinball machines do not seem to be getting cheaper.
2 months later
Quoted from dtowndobe:A tad nearsighted wouldn't you say?
So I presume Spooky's business plan was to try kits first, then when there weren't enough tech savvy / patient people to sell a suitable number, the plan was changed to sell complete pins? If so, I humbly retract my statements.
I think the point is that selling kits is going to be pretty expensive and a hard sell. The guy that recently built a CC said he had close to 10K in it without counting his labor. They couldn't get 100 people to pay 8K for a WOOLY that is already assembled. How many people are going to pay more for something that they have to build themselves?
Getting more WOOLY's made is a great thing however it is done, but I don't see how a pinball kit is a viable option. The market will be small so part runs will be small and extremely expensive. Sure some people would do it for the experience, but I think the market is going to be very small.
1 year later
I know what's best for other people's companies.
No, I know what's best.
Nah uh, I know what's best.
I want this game to get made. I got in on the preorder at the last minute and was sorry to see it didn't work out but not surprised. Bad timing and a price that made people scared. With the giant jump in pricing it doesn't feel as out of line now though. If there is a good option to make it happen Riot will do what is best as they seem like good, smart people. I think its funny that some of you know exactly what others should do and are certain of what would be smart business decisions. Maybe, just maybe, they know what they are doing.
Quoted from TigerLaw:Having a couple going around to shows would be nice. I don't think one has ever made it to TPF or HAAG.
I agree with this. Just look at what TPF did for AMH sales.
Quoted from Whysnow:took a game that was actively in production and 2/3 sold out and helped it get to 150 sales quicker?
It doesn't do a lot of good if there are not plans down the road to make the game. But if they hope to get it made more people need to see it and play it. It doesn't get much bigger then TPF for this.
AMH was selling and doing ok, when it went to Texas suddenly it instantly sold out and the secondary market exploded. Credit Spooky for making a good game to sell. Credit it being at tpf for the huge demand spike.
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