LOTR always. At any price.

lotr is a way better playing pin, but bang for the buck [since you really like poker theme] you might be better off with WPT.

Some pins are worth the price. Lotr imo, is one of them.

I have BOTH, get the WPT, all day every day for the price………….

Deep rules and satisfying shots. Sits right next to my Lotr LE and I'd get rid of it first! But I love it too…..

The pinside answer: Get both!

My answer: LOTR is twice the price, but 3x the pin. WPT is more of a 'second' pin for a collection.

What about STLE for 4x WPT? Lol. People that seem to know better like WPT. And the price is right. And LOTR is epic. LOTR would be worth it at 2x its price.

Now you're just high. But go with it!

Get both for sure! I have both……

WPT is at the same level of LOTR…, maybe a little better

Hittin' the hooch hard again I see.

WPT is my favorite game and has been for a couple of years. LOTR was in my home for three years and was great fun but always felt clunky. WPT flows and I love the shots. Sixteen drops, great sounds, and Keith Johnson / Steve Ritchie together is awesome. I have an alternate translight and it makes the whole game better. Get WPT.

Read my posts above

Dude, I'm a poker nut too. And poker really doesn't belong in pinball. The layout and rules are fun. But mike sexton just doesn't work in pinball. Go LoTR and don't look back. LoTR is a classic!

WPT is under-rated in my opinion. I'd keep some extra cash and play some poker

I love poker.... built a poker room and that's why I bought a WPT.

Only problem was- pinball is more than a theme.

The callouts grated on my nerves, the artwork is horrible and the pinball play was just so-so. I got in on closeout- and it was clear why...

There's a reason LOTR is ranked #6 and WPT is ranked in the 170's.... Even discounting those votes a little - most people agree one is fantastic and the other is....well- somewhere between bad and horrible.

LOL Why pay 4x the money for 1/4 the game? WPT is deeper than ST can ever be, and has a *lot* more shot variety. And it has the best rule integration of any pin, bar none. It is easily one of Stern's top 5. Once you pick up on the strategic nuances, and dial it in, it is simply a killer game. Call-outs are also well-integrated and helpful, once you know what they are saying and why instead of just "hearing voices."

LOTR is a great game too. I rank it right up there with WPT. But when WPT is around half the price (or less) than LOTR, it wins on bftb. But either game is great and won't get old any time soon....

This

Take it from the guys who enjoy and play poker too, pinball and poker should be kept separate from each other. You cannot get your poker and pinball fix in one shot with a poker themed pin.

LOTR all day!!!

WPT and LOTR are both good playing machines. LOTR is more of a masterpiece IMHO. It's like the Stern Addams Family in a lot of ways. WPT has very little to do with Texas Hold Em or the even the WPT. Still, I have owned it over a year and it is one of my favorite games. BTW, I am an avid poker player and play about once a week and am also in a winter poker league.

Personally, for my money, I'd take WPT all day long at 1/2 the price. Yeah LOTR is a much better package overall, but I probably, in general, prefer WPT's rules.

I love poker but do not really care for WPT. LOTR at market value over WPT at market value..... ALWAYS.

Uh...didn't YOU program the rules for LOTR? Jeez - you're pretty hard on yourself! People seem to really love the deep rule set. I'm certainly a fan of your work!

he did them for both i believe. they are both the best rulesets in pinball (imho). never got into simpsons, which some say are comparable. and by best I mean deep, interesting and challenging.
neither will leave my collection anytime soon. ( I used to say never but am a wiser person now! lol).

I own both WPT and LOTR.

If you forget the price, LOTR... gameplay is not much better, but music and callouts are better. Overall you won't embark into an epic journey with WPT, as you would with LOTR.

But at 2x the price, tough call.

Believe it or not, but WPT might be the last to go from my lineup. Sure, Backglass is ugly... but I am not playing the backglass! Rules are really deep. The "3x score multiplier for 3 seconds" choice you can always take or decline forces you to make important tactical choices. I have tried many different strategies, but there is no obvious winning one, so scoring is fairly balanced. Tourney players enjoy it, and it is not that frequent during tournament play. Shots are not that tight, but really far away, making them harder than you think. Reaching Keefer's invitational is as elusive as Valinor (never went there !).

Disclaimer: I don't even like Poker.... but I love Drop targets: WPT has 16!

LOTR, best pin ever IMO

I believe i read you are near my parts. come by and check them out. nothing like playing them to see. just make sure you have a little time. to see both games at their best it usually takes a little time!

WPT...if you like long long shots, if you like drop targets (16 of them!), if you like deep rules, if you like mini wizards (3) and a final wizard modes, a very good to excellent upper play field, many multi ball chances

LOTR...if you like long games,if you like a mode based game, if you like the movies, if you would enjoy one of the best callouts in pinball, if you like a ruleset that just doesnt quit, if you like to mod, if you enjoy great multi balls,and supposedly a great final wizard mode(ha! never made it and even tho I have been very close I dont think i will ever make it),
and if you think its cool that the software designer comes on here and opines from time to time: either one.

Yeah, I did both games, so I figured my opinion might be more relevant than usual. I'm proud of both, but WPT's depth is definitely > LOTR's, in no small part due to the 3x rule.

I'm curious to the actual prices you have found. Are they both routed/huo? WPT even at half the price of a LOTR seems like the LOTR is high or the WPT is low, either way, if that's the case, despite LOTR being 3-4 on my list for my fav games, I would take WPT, a machine I have wanted for some time.

I also like LOTR. However you might be able to get WPT + 1 other game for same price. My brother got a WPT (He is a pro pokerplayer, so he got it for the theme) he really likes it, i also think its fun when i visit.
LOTR however is more fun, but if the price is *2 or *3 i get WPT+one other good game.

An average LOTR still goes for around $4-5k. WPT, around $2-2.5k. Thus the 2x factor.

Yes, WPT is probably the best bang-for-the-buck game out there. And once you really "get" the rules/strategy, you'll be hooked. Nice, open, clean-shooting layout too.

Ha! I finally get to disagree with Keith. You may have written both of them, but I have played both of them. And for my money, LOTR is simply one of the best games ever. It is pinball on a different level. From a users perspective, it isn't the rules, and it isn't the depth, it is the quest. LOTR is the only game that I don't care about the score. I want super jackpots (love that callout!). I want to destroy the ring. I want victory laps, and I want cheese wedges! If I destroy the ring, I don't care about the score, because I just destroyed the ring! The game puts you right on that edge where each shot is so important, and if you drain right now, you have to start over again... Greatness. I know people sometimes complain about the longer game times, and I say their game isn't setup correctly. Open up the outlanes and make it tough to earn everything. Up the difficulty of getting the fellowship together, rather than have every shot count towards it. If you put them in, get rid of those super coils that make the ring shot too easy.

I just sold my lightly routed one, so I can buy a HUO one that is in amazing shape. I'm not saying that WPT isn't a good game, but LOTR has that certain something that makes it great. Bang for the buck goes to WPT, but Bang period goes to LOTR. Fantastic game.

Since you are pinless go wpt and a Bally/Williams like the shadow.

How much better would wpt have been if they made it as a wsop 2003 Chris moneymaker: internet qualifier to world champ. Can you imagine the Norman Chad callings, bad beat drain Phil hellmuth cuss outs, sammi farha heads up wizard mode, degenerate house edge gambling multi ball, jack binions horse shoe video mode and the list goes on and on.

Surely there's someone that loves poker that would be looking at this retheme.

i dont think your disagreeing with keith as he was referring to which game is deeper, not better. now can someone explain the 3x rule?

Awesome to see responses from the man himself. I think we need a separate thread for Keith to rank his faves he helped create, and then his favorites all time!

Could be bad for business if WOZ isn't at the top. And doesn't everybody say that the one they're currently working on is the best?

LOTR

Any time you complete one of the Poker hands (pair, 2 pairs, etc...) with the drop targets (not with Texas Hold'em) one of the two inlanes is lit for 3X. You change which lane with flippers - so you can always decide if you want it or not.
If your ball goes through the inlane while lit, your scoring is tripled for the next 3 seconds. Once used, this option needs to be reactivated with an other combination (you can actually "stack" them with several hands in advance). At first they are simple to achieve, but later on when you need a royal flush, it is not so simple... so better not waste it!

WPT is a great game for $$$, I am actually considering getting LOTR, and it is double the price in trade... WPT is a great game, haven't played a lot of LOTR which is why I am considering upgrading to it as it is a deep game like WPT. Plus I do like the LOTR theme much better. Will miss WPT but had the game for over a year now and looking for a change up in my lineup.

Rank WOZ 1. That's fine

Things that make you say hmm...

A game room with only one pin?!?! Blasphemy. Throw everything else away and get all pins.

thanks! that is what I thought but with keith saying thats what separates the depth b/w the 2 i wanted to make sure i wasnt missing something else!

"you are keeping a game for your friend until his basement remodelling is complete" !

wait what? WPT is deeper than LOTR? How can that be? You put in so much of your personal time on TSPP and LOTR to make them as deep and awesome as they are (software wise).

I havn't been able to put in a lot of time on WPT enough to really know the levels that it goes, so I don't know. But I am open to the unique playfield layout, which is hard to find in the Stern world.

I owned WPT for about a year and a half and have owned LOTR for over 5 years and to me LOTR is worth paying over twice the cost. WPT Is a great bargain game compared to others in the $2K range and it has a great rule-set and unique layout, I just don't find it all that exciting to play. For one, you have no control over what your cards are in the main Texas Hold'em game with the big display in the playfield. and Second of all you win every hand. It just kind of seems like a waste to me. I do like the drops and "Poker Hands" feature of the game but I feel like my main strategy on the game is to just keep starting "AITH" multiball and nail the drops haphazardly during that. I don't usually have to start aiming for specific drops until nearly all of my hands are complete. The modes are ok I suppose but honestly completing poker hands and traveling from City to City just doesn't excite me that much compared to other games like LOTR where you battle Orcs and Wargs and Balrogs and go to War! I know both games have long ball times for good games. I just feel like in LOTR I don't get bored as I find myself entrenched in the theme and find the multi-balls more satisfying where as in WPT it starts to feel like a marathon trying to get thru all the cities and completing all those hands. To each his own though... If you do decide on WPT I'd pair it with something else as I think you'd get tired of it as an only pin.