(Topic ID: 160185)

WPPR formula change to v5.3 for 2017!

By ifpapinball

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ifpapinball.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    #1 7 years ago

    Since the release of WPPR v5.2 for the 2016 season, the IFPA has continued investigating ways to make the World Pinball Player Rankings more accurate for how we rank players across the globe.

    These latest changes will be incorporated into WPPR v5.3 which will be implemented starting January 1, 2017.
    Please note that for all 2016 IFPA related activities (qualifying for 2016-17 SCS, 2016-17 ECS, IFPA14, etc), version 5.2 will be used for that qualification process.

    Below is an overview of changes for the updated 2017 formula:

    - For any IFPA endorsed tournament or league with a qualifying portion, only players that participate in at least 50% of the games used in determining those qualifying positions will be included in the final results. Any players that don’t meet this minimum participation requirement should be removed from the results by the tournament director (TD) prior to submitting those results to the IFPA. For example, a Best Game qualifying format where 10 machines are available with the best 7 scores counting towards the player’s qualifying position, any player that plays fewer than 4 machines will be removed from the standings submitted to the IFPA. For leagues, this means that players must participate in at least 50% of the sessions of the regular season to be included in the final standings submitted to the IFPA.

    - Certain formats (Selfie Leagues, TOPS Tournaments, etc) rely on players submitting their own results without the verification of a TD or authorized scorekeeper on site. Any qualifying format that includes “unverified” results where a TD, league official, or authorized scorekeeper is not present to record their score, will not have the qualifying portion included in the TGP calculation. The IFPA will classify these qualifying formats as strictly for seeding purposes, with only the finals format counting towards the TGP calculation.

    - The TGP will now include games played that are fewer than 3 balls, including timed formats where players are attempting to reach a score or objective as quickly as possible. Any game where it’s possible for the player to finish on the first ball in play, will be calculated at 33% value for TGP purposes. For example, if players have a goal of reaching a certain feature in a game as a way of winning that game or match, the fact that it is POSSIBLE for the player to reach that objective on ball 1 means this will count as 1/3rd of a game played towards TGP. The exception to this rule will be the Pin-Golf format, which will have it’s own set of grading rules (see next bullet points).

    - The IFPA is launching the IFPA Tour of endorsed Pin-Golf events. We are now enforcing stricter rules regarding how organizers can score a IFPA endorsed Pin-Golf format tournament, and events must meet this criteria with their course design to award WPPR points as an IFPA endorsed event. The WPPR points awarded for Pin-Golf events will now include a Pin-Golf Multiplier (PGM) adjustment. This metric is used to grade the difficulty of the course. Full details on the IFPA Tour, rules of course design, and the calculation of the PGM adjustment are available here: http://www.ifpapinball.com/pingolf/

    For full detailed information on the 2017 formula, visit: http://www.ifpapinball.com/menu/ranking-info-2017/

    Any questions please don’t hesitate to contact us at [email protected]. Please check back when we announce that WPPR v5.3 has been implemented for 2017 as the details may always change prior to launch.

    #5 7 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    As in the 20% cap for unlimited qualifying, or does that also include the 4%/game for those that are available to play?

    Both the time and game element of TGP won't be counted.

    This qualifying portion will be strictly looked at as seeding.

    #15 7 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    I can see the point for the top 100 players who get most/all of their active results from NY Superleague. The problem here is that the NY one has somebody there to verify scores, so they won't be affected by this. So NYC will still be heads above.

    The 50% participation rule will have a far greater impact on the NYC Superleague.

    For the April 2016 results 26 out of the 165 players played at least 50% of the games required for qualification.

    The difference in value between a tournament with 165 players and 26 players . . . I won't even go into those details, but it's quite a large margin

    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    Do you have Brian making a sniffer script to audit their logs?

    We have something better . . . a whole group of people that have a vested interested in making sure that league is worth as little as possible. We have a lineup of volunteers willing to go through the qualifying results of every player that participates to make sure nobody is improperly counted.

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from sleethering:

    Hmm I wonder if Superleague will drop their number of qualifying games to make it easier for casuals to hit 50% participation and make up the difference toward max TGP in playoffs.

    You wonder very accurately

    #24 7 years ago
    Quoted from WaddleJrJr:

    Interesting though, why the change to selfie leagues when both you and Shep are running one? Seemed like the boost to coin drop was a big point in its favor, but will it still be doing that with the lower value? Or do you have a format change in store for next year?

    Shepherd himself actually came up with the proposal for the rule

    The fact that the play is totally unsupervised should impact the value of that event negatively compared to events that are fully supervised with officials, scorekeepers, etc.

    The question remains what it will do to coin drop next year. To be successful, at least in our monthly, you have to qualify in the top 4. Anyone outside of the top 4 simply can't win the tournament. That requires a high level of participation during the qualifying process regardless of whether that participation results in adding to the TGP or not. For me to win, I'll be forced to continue to qualifying during the now 'worthless' qualifying period just to have a chance at that A-division prize money/top WPPR's.

    #27 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I have NEVER played in a supervised event where i could not easily cheat or take advantage of a game if i so wished. The distinction of supervised vs unsupervised as being physical precense at a location is silly.

    I understand every event involves the potential for cheating. I've seen cheating at PAPA. I've seen cheating at IFPA.

    This isn't about the potential to cheat. This is about the ability for a TD/designated official to handle any potential malfunctions, rulings, etc. on the spot, and remedy that situation with the player immediately.

    Understand the frustration for sure, and figured this was a nice compromise compared to the many people that think this style of tournament should simply be not endorsed, full stop.

    #29 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:A compromise would be to limit the qualfying value, not make it a flat zero.

    That would be a compromise if the argument was "full value vs. no value".

    The compromise we made was "Value vs. No WPPR's at all for the tournament".

    Allowing that format to continue as an endorsed format where this unverified play can have a significant impact on the results of the tournament is the compromise.

    #32 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    No, it is yet another decision laid solidly in the bias of the top 100 mindset. Better idea would to make a maximal base value from qualifying. It is obvious that so many decisions are based soley to preserve the values of some at the top of rankings and to go against the guy running the nyc super point grab.

    Yet we somehow find a way to grow the player base year after year

    Appreciate the concerns ... I think we'll survive this adjustment just fine and the player base will continue to grow.

    I have some exciting SCS news to share in the near future once everyone is through the 5.3 WPPR hate fest

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from chuckwurt:

    Let me guess. Cannot have a league play in two states and have your points get awarded in both states? Booooooooooo. Haha

    It might be our first announcement that actually gets 100% universal praise

    I can't imagine anyone arguing that it's not a good thing for the SCS (although Hilton may find a way)

    Details to come soon enough.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from EricR:

    I'm not sure I would consider it a hate fest, the 50% participation rule is something that a lot of people have wanted for a long time.

    That was said in jest

    So far the response has been far more positive than I expected for sure.

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from sleethering:

    IFPA sponsors are adding cash to each SCS prize pool?

    Getting warm! This secret is leaking worse than the next 7 Stern titles

    #53 7 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Josh, do you think we will see a drop off in Selfie Leagues?

    Only time will tell.

    For our selfie league here I don't believe it will. Whether our month is worth 6 WPPRs or 12 WPPRs, our group here is mainly interested in the competition. I've failed to reach A division most of the months due to the dedication of our player base.

    I can't qualify in A without showing up and playing, so that portion of the selfie league is still the most integral. It may not be worth WPPRs for that part of the process, but I can't beat Zach for the month if I'm sitting in 5th or 6th for qualifying. The only answer I have is to get off my ass, put more $$$ in the games, and keep playing.

    #55 7 years ago
    Quoted from goatdan:

    Nothing seems as crazy as in the past to me
    Question though - MGC and I'm sure some other tournaments run qualifying where you need to play three games two times apiece, and your scores for each machine are then combined to make up your ranking score for that game... so, for instance, Game A (run 1) + Game A (run 2) = qualifying position score.
    Because the scores are combined, do we need them to play at least three entries, or do we need them to play at least two entries, but on different machines (since this will give them score ranking on 2/3rds of the ranking sheets)?
    Either way is fine and I don't believe that we had anyone play less than 3 entries anyway, but just curious so we can make our software recognize what is going on.

    It's the tic tac toe method. Every breakdown you can think of better meet that 50% threshold.

    So that means you have to play 2 out of the 3 machines, AND play at least 1 out of the 2 games on that machine for the player to count as 'fully participated'.

    #57 7 years ago
    Quoted from desertT1:

    City Championships are starting this year... Tucson can be the first. I'll run it and do a combo event between Tucson Pinball and D&D. Set up a page that finds all "Tucson" location events (and excludes league if you want, even though we aren't full yet so wouldn't turn anyone away) and tallies them. Seriously. Make it easier on yourself than manually adding events to a custom tracking page and then hit me up. I'll pimp the crap out of it here.

    We can create a custom ranking based on city of the tournament no problem

    #63 7 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Josh, do you think we will see a drop off in Selfie Leagues?
    I think this is the only negative. Not because of WPPR but because it could hurt some of the locations running them in that there could be a drop in the number of players.

    I posted this on Tilt Forums, but thought it was worth posting here as well regarding the imminent DEATH OF SELFIE LEAGUES. It's always important to keep perspective on how the changes actually impact the players participating. There's always a race towards assuming this change is going to grossly alter the universe of the WPPR system forever, when in reality we're talking about peanuts.

    Anyway, here's my TF post:

    This is about making the world rankings more accurate, and the selfie leagues are simply overvalued for "what they are". It's taking advantage of a system that's built around events being organized and run by volunteers who spend countless hours, money and energy putting something on.

    Compare that to the "effort" it takes to run a Selfie league, which for me is entering a score from my phone at my leisure, and finding a clever comment to post on Facebook along with posting a picture . . . and showing up for 90 minutes once a month to run a final. It's really a f*cking joke (and I say that because I created it, and I still think it's awesome, and I still think it has a place in this wide world of competitive pinball . . . just at a reduced value based on the play where that TD is putting in that time/effort/energy like they have to do for every other tournament on our calendar).

    If we wanted to help out operators we would value all Selfie leagues at 100 points minimum. If we wanted to help boost the business of JJP we would offer a 5X multiplier in WPPR points for any tournament that uses a JJP game in the lineup. Unfortunately the benefits for the operator from WPPR's is more of a collateral damage sort of thing rather than the goal of the system.

    Right now our SSL averages about 10 WPPR points a month. Anyone that finished outside of the top 4 got less than 2 WPPR points for their performance. Next year our TGP will go from 64% to 24%. The winner will be getting ~4 points instead of 10, and anyone outside of the top 4 will see a drop of LESS THAN ONE WPPR POINT each month for this change. For anyone in the bottom half of the field, we're talking HUNDRETHS OF A POINT difference.

    If that less than one WPPR point difference is going to ruin everything for operators, TD's, players, kids, puppies, etc, then someone needs to prioritize where WPPR's fall in their life.

    #67 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    you could at least give credit where credit is due...
    I created the Selfie league format. The very first flippin with the greats I spoke with you and got the whole idea OKed before going ahead. Month long unlimited qualifying with photos and trash talking on our regional forum.
    You may have refined it, but I invented it
    Next thing, you are going to be claiming your dad saved pinball...

    Cheers to Hilton ... Who got one extra year of selfie league WPPRs over the rest of us

    1 month later
    #74 7 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    It might be our first announcement that actually gets 100% universal praise

    I can't imagine anyone arguing that it's not a good thing for the SCS (although Hilton may find a way)

    Details to come soon enough.

    http://www.ifpapinball.com/2017-ifpa-nationalswomenspin-masters-championships-head-to-dallas/

    The big announcement is that courtesy of Stern Pinball, the 2017 National Pinball Champion will receive a brand new Stern pinball machine as top prize!

    #79 7 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    *Edit* I have some other comments, but not sure if I should keep them to myself.

    Who wants to run a mini-tourney at my 985 sq ft. condo? Or can I bring a game to FUN for use in the tournament? I live literally 5 miles from there, heh.

    Never keep your comments to yourself . . . I live for this sh*t

    I know Marcus is helping us fill the bank of 12 machines needed, but we are definitely looking for some help on this (especially for some modern games). Shoot me a PM if you have a game that you wouldn't mind donating to the cause and I can make sure Marcus is aware as he's putting things together from the ground out there.

    #80 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    does this mean if a state does not send a player then they no longer have to donate $100 to the national pot?

    No . . . the $100 fee is for that state to be part of the SCS for a given year. It builds the prize pool for those that are able to participate in Nationals. We have seen some luck getting a local business to sponsor the SCS for a given state by funding the $100 Nationals fee. The entry fee from the state players can then go back 100% to those players. Might be worth looking into up in WI for you guys.

    We're simply able to now offer a prize pool of $9000-9500 for Nationals compared to previous years of $4000-4500.

    With the top prize going to National Champion we'll be able to spread that cash around deeper to the other finalists.

    #82 7 years ago
    Quoted from zacaj:

    You should only need one or two!

    Looking for 4

    #85 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    done to get WI to host nationals some year?

    Convince the AMOA to have their industry trade show in Wisconsin

    We're only moving to Dallas because that's where "real work" takes me.

    2018 the AMOA is moving us back to Vegas.

    #86 7 years ago
    Quoted from rotordave:

    If we talk nicely to Gary can the Woman's World Champ get one too?

    You might have a better chance sweet talking him than I do, or have Dani talk him into it

    They make Zach and I work hard for their support and sponsorship. Fortunately we don't mind.

    #89 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    That is unfortunate. Sport could grow more with a national event that went to more places, not to mention the shit quality of games in vegas is pretty sad to use to rep the national event.

    I'm not sure where Nationals is held has any impact on the growth of the sport as a whole.

    IMO the media attention that we're able to generate throughout the SCS and Nationals campaign does far more to move the needle.

    From an industry perspective tying it to the industry's biggest trade show is also an important factor. Stern's belief in the importance of competitive pinball has only been increased based on the excitement we're able to generate by being an industry function. If the timing worked better my preference would be to have it on the show floor itself.

    Only needing 12 machines the PHOF has been 'fine' for us. Having IFPA5 there and getting 60 games ready .... I'll agree that was insane.

    Looking forward to the Dallas contingent next year, and there's a chance we move to Flipperspiel for 2018. I've never been but have heard great things about that location.

    #93 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    Moving it around the nation to GOOD playing collections with large concentrations of good players. i.e. seems silly to no host in CA/PNW, Chicago, NYC, Pittsburg, etc... Locations of large populus, good players, good pinball collections able to really stand up to competition.

    I have a hall pass from the wife to move the World Championship around . . . I don't have that same hall pass for Nationals.

    All she knows is that I have to go on my annual business trip for work for the Spring show, and yeahhhhhh there's also some pinball 'stuff' going on as well, but it's definitely not a "pinball trip"

    May she never read Pinside and find this post!

    #95 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    So when are we moving it to Chicago for a year?

    There will be some year where something comes up and it ends up in my basement.

    2018 actually poses some real issues I've put off dealing with. The trade show is typically in that mid-late March time frame, and I just found out the dates are like mid-late FEBRUARY for 2018.

    With SCS day typically that second weekend of February, it makes it really challenging to run Nationals the weekend after and ask everyone to find their was to Vegas on such limited notice

    #97 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I suggest when that year comes up then I will host. I am never going to make it to nationals but would like to host it and nobody ever comes over to play my colleciton so it will provide a diverse colleciton with no homefield advantage.

    Appreciate the offer . . . I'm more likely to shift everything back in the schedule to accommodate the trade show so we can still utilize that industry exposure.

    The second likely possibility is to team up with Level 257 here in the suburbs where we run our Super Selfie League and have them donate some space for us to bring in 12 games from local collectors to pull this off. This assumes they are still open for business and flying high with pinball nearly 2 years from now, which is never a certainty.

    The one part where you hosting fails includes me having to let my wife know I have to head up to Wisconsin for 'something', after just being out of town in Vegas for work

    #99 7 years ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    The largest operator of pinball machines in Madison wants to tlak to you about the possibiility of buying a bunch of Raw Thrills games.

    Haha now that's something I might be able to work with

    You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ifpapinball.
    Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

    Reply

    Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

    Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

    Donate to Pinside

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


    This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/wppr-formula-change-to-v52-for-2017?tu=ifpapinball and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

    Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.